Is reconciliation possible

[carvaka]

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Dear Sangom,

Yes, I think I do not subscribe to the methods you have mentioned above. I think the gestures like samabandhi bojanam might be perceived us resorting to symbolism and people have changed a lot. The usual methods that the politicians have been doing for years do not enjoy any respect and might even back-fire.

Brahmins do not have to go out of their way to appease anybody. Brahmins are also sons of the soil and they have equal rights as anybody else who would choose to make Tamilnadu their home. I believe that an effort to think and feel the same as that of the rest of the people is the need of the hour. By that I mean people could make an effort to undertake professions that the rest of the population is engaged. Brahmins need to build the brand that would unambiguously say that we are as you are and I say this should be done by making sure that self-respect of the brahmins are not compromised.

Agriculture, trade/business is what connects all the people and it does because the causes, difficulties become the same. And you do not have to lose your identity as a group.

I challenge, any endeavor in (any part of)TN by brahmins would not fail just because of their caste. While agriculture might be a tad bit difficult, I believe trade is not a rocket science. Trade is one thing that will make interdependance inevitable. Setting up a shop would not be difficult but getting over the mental block would be.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom,

Yes, I think I do not subscribe to the methods you have mentioned above. I think the gestures like samabandhi bojanam might be perceived us resorting to symbolism and people have changed a lot. The usual methods that the politicians have been doing for years do not enjoy any respect and might even back-fire.

Brahmins do not have to go out of their way to appease anybody. Brahmins are also sons of the soil and they have equal rights as anybody else who would choose to make Tamilnadu their home. I believe that an effort to think and feel the same as that of the rest of the people is the need of the hour. By that I mean people could make an effort to undertake professions that the rest of the population is engaged. Brahmins need to build the brand that would unambiguously say that we are as you are and I say this should be done by making sure that self-respect of the brahmins are not compromised.

Agriculture, trade/business is what connects all the people and it does because the causes, difficulties become the same. And you do not have to lose your identity as a group.

I challenge, any endeavor in (any part of)TN by brahmins would not fail just because of their caste. While agriculture might be a tad bit difficult, I believe trade is not a rocket science. Trade is one thing that will make interdependance inevitable. Setting up a shop would not be difficult but getting over the mental block would be.

Shri Carvaka,

I agree there is a lot of sense in your view that "gestures like samabandhi bojanam might be perceived us resorting to symbolism and people have changed a lot. The usual methods that the politicians have been doing for years do not enjoy any respect and might even back-fire." But the steps suggested by me like inviting non-brahmins also for poojas, bhajans etc., at the individual home level and/or community level is, imo, not yet acceptable to the really orthodox TBs. And, I have always observed that the "abhivaadaye" is reserved only for brahmins and rarely do I find the vaTu doing this to any non-brahmin invitee. It is my considered view that humans have a very fine antenna to gauge such nano-signs of discrimination and the message underlying these. I have not so far witnessed any function in any TB household where there has been an inter-caste or inter-community (religion) marriage and how those NB/NH relatives are treated in such functions.

When you say "Brahmins do not have to go out of their way to appease anybody. Brahmins are also sons of the soil and they have equal rights as anybody else who would choose to make Tamilnadu their home. I believe that an effort to think and feel the same as that of the rest of the people is the need of the hour. By that I mean people could make an effort to undertake professions that the rest of the population is engaged.", etc., your OP itself looks deceptive; you are more than very clear and self-assured as to what the Brahmins ought to and ought not to do for whatever reconciliation you might have had in your mind when starting this thread; so what was the need for this thread itself?

Regarding Bs taking to trade, I suppose there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Bs even now running trade in the sense of small-scale manufacture and sale, simple buying and selling provisions to anything and everything, and so on, in TN. Do you suggest that this is not sufficient? Do you feel such people engaged in trade necessarily have a more egalitarian attitude towards other castes and communities and less of Brahmin superiority?

 

[carvaka]

Dear Sangom,

Im sorry if I ever portrayed as somebody who has the solution...I do not have one...but I do not want to see actions that would undermine their self-respect...perhaps you are right, people have a very fine antenna

 

[Nara]

Sangom and Carvaka,

IMO, reconciliation is an impossible goal as it presupposes the continuance of Brahmin-identity, one that means by definition hierarchical superiority. To become one among the rest of the society, a Brahmin has to abandon his/her Brahmin identity. Only icm with children brought up not as a Brahmin can bring this about in large enough scale to have an impact. In this regard, the youngsters have already made a significant beginning. It is just a matter of time for this trickle to gain force and become an unstoppable force.

So, IMO, reconciliation is impossible, but mingling and becoming an inseparable part of the society is inevitable.

Cheers!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

This thread, as I understand it, is about reconciliation between TBs and the rest of the Tamil society.

.......them and not us.

I am surprised it took you so much time to figure this out.

Not only this thread. Several threads in this forum are based on this them vs us.

However, your statement that this blame game is only practiced by brahmins is not true. In this forum, this blame game is mainly practiced by neo non-brahmins - those who were born into brahmin household and subsequently "purified" themselves by becoming anti-brahmins. It is these people who are working overtime to establish the "sinful" past of the brahmins and to lay a guilt-trip on brahmins and are very much responsible for preventing any reconciliation.

 

[kunjuppu]

I am surprised it took you so much time to figure this out.

Not only this thread. Several threads in this forum are based on this them vs us.

However, your statement that this blame game is only practiced by brahmins is not true. In this forum, this blame game is mainly practiced by neo non-brahmins - those who were born into brahmin household and subsequently "purified" themselves by becoming anti-brahmins. It is these people who are working overtime to establish the "sinful" past of the brahmins and to lay a guilt-trip on brahmins and are very much responsible for preventing any reconciliation.

KB,

please reconfirm that the above posts to be your private opinion, and not any affirmed truth based on realities.

let me explain: term by term, where i think, i might not agree with you.

top of the list - name calling. i think it is the last refuge of anyone who is filled with anger, and not with cogent logic. for example, you have termed some of us, as 'neo non-brahmins' and went on to explain how you understood this terminology to mean.

for starters, i think there is a big difference of opinion here as to what defines a brahmin today. i have repeatedly stated, that from beef eating money sankar ayyar to the kanchi mutt whose is fighting a murder charge, and everyone of us in between, are in the eyes of the goi 'paarppaans'.

so, for you to imply, that folks like me, are to be excommunicated from the group that you belong, is a fallacy, and wishful thinking, but not a vessel that would hold even a drop of water. ok?

your great grandfather, might want to call you, based on his values, as a 'neo nob-brahmin', because you dont do sandhyavandhanam, wear a uchu-kudumi or shave your whole body every amavasya or shave the hair of any female unfortunate enough to be widowed in your family. what do you say for that?

KB, the truth of the matter is, that you me sangom have much more in common than what folks like you suraju etc would like to acknowledge. we are, i would say, doomed to share the compartment in this railway journey till each of us, drops of at our destination. just like in a railway journey, we play the equivalent of card games together, may share the food and definitely share the idea(l)s.

none of us are no more 'pure' than the others, though you have not sufficiently explained the 'purification' process. as for working 'overtime', normally i do put in my presence of 7 1/2 hours at work but that is limit, i do for any type of committed work.

lastly, re laying the 'guilt trip' on brahmins, my take on this, is that our values are constantly changing. for the better. it is only natural to look back at the past, and evaluate not only how much we have changed, and why we have changed, but also sometimes express abhorrence at some of our cultural inheritance, that we have cast away, deliberately too and shedding ourselves of unwanted mental baggage. this is the same case, for you and me, except, the content of that odious baggage.

i might have cast away some differently than yours. i do not say that you are a 'neo traditional brahmin' clad in dirt and needs a thought purification. that would be wrong for me point a finger like that at you. some would call it, 'pot calling the kettle black'. we would not want that, would we?

much love to you KB dear fellow tambram!!

 

[niyengaar]

I don't want ot get in between the disagreement between KB and Amala, but I do want to comment on the above.

It is a well established fact that the TBs very carefully maintained their separateness from the rest of the Tamil population. In almost every walk of social life they created norms that separated them from the rest, from the clothes they wear, how they wear it, language, food habits, culture, the list goes on.

Anyone who is familiar with social life in Tamilnadu knows that one can't tell what caste group a person belongs to, except Brahmins. The moment a Brahmin opens his/her mouth and says anything, he/she will immediately stand out as a Brahmin. This is not just some accident of history, it is deliberate. They even have elaborate stories in the form of puranas to reinforce this mindset.

On the other hand, by and large, among the T-NBs, in spite of the sickeningly long list of castes and sub-castes, they have not separated themselves from each other in such all-pervading ways. There may be regional differences, one may be able to tell a Tanjore NB from a Coimbatore one or a Thiruneveli one. But within a region the NBs do not maintain outward exclusivity, except Brahmins.

This wall was raised and maintained by TBs. Having created and maintained this separate identity for so long and derived all the benefits therefrom, now, when this is no longer working to their advantage, accusing the rest of the Tamils of "constant scrutiny" is, to put it mildly, rewriting history.

Cheers!

p.s.
There is no Shudra and Non-Shudra separtation, but there is a TB - TNB one, why?

well that is the core of misunderstanding. following your own methods does Not mean you are not socializing.

if people have to stay simillar to socialize, there would only be machines left of them.


it is Not about being a xerox copy. It is about Accepting others for what they are - Brahmans & NBs / otherwise.


Well, let me put it this way,

1) every part of TN has its own dialect of tamil - eg. a person from Madurai will communicate in his Madurai slang, throughout.

2) every part of TN has its own - jovial sense ; mannerisms ; approach to situations ; etc. They even have different name for the same food items.

3) every Muslim follows is very easily distinguishable from Hindus, through their appearance and food and dialect , etc.

4) Sikhs wear their own Turban while a Marwari has his own Life style. same goes for people of Saurashtrians and others too ...


If having a group's own identity means that they cant socialize, none of the above groups would ve been able to. But that is Not the way things are.

Again, it is not about being xerox copies to mingle. It is about accepting others for what they are. That is the base of each person "respecting" the other. Simple.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

top of the list - name calling. i think it is the last refuge of anyone who is filled with anger, and not with cogent logic. for example, you have termed some of us, as 'neo non-brahmins' and went on to explain how you understood this terminology to mean.

What you call name-calling, I call characterizing. I differentiate the type of criticisms that range anywhere from honest criticisms to hate-mongering.

for starters, i think there is a big difference of opinion here as to what defines a brahmin today.

The difference of opinion regarding the definition is okay as long as there is some consistency.

Some members here pick and choose a definiton as it suits them in a particular argument.

For example, those who viewed the word "brahmin" to represent just a caste now associate a character or an attitude "superiority complex" to that word. These very same members were gung-ho against attaching any positive character. There is no honesty in these arguments.

so, for you to imply, that folks like me, are to be excommunicated from the group that you belond, is a fallacy, and wishful thinking, but not a vessel that would hold even a drop of water. ok?

No one is trying to ex-communicate anyone. It appears that folks of your ilk are the ones who are willingly removing yourselves from the community. That is okay; You have the right to do so; but then why pretend that you are a well-wisher of the community?

your great grandfather, might want to call you, based on his values, as a 'neo nob-brahmin', because you dont do sandhyavandhanam, wear a uchu-kudumi or shave your whole body every amavasya or shave the hair of any female unfortunate enough to be widowed in your family. what do you say for that?

You are hinting that brahmins are not a monolithic entity. I do not disagree. But anyone whose stated goal is to see that the community ceases to exist cannot claim to be part of the community.

 

[niyengaar]

No one left because of the local attitude towards Brahmins or harassment.

really ? ha ha ha ha ! is there a smiley for "clapping" ? i would love to add it here.

 

[C RAVI]

well that is the core of misunderstanding. following your own methods does Not mean you are not socializing.

if people have to stay simillar to socialize, there would only be machines left of them.


it is Not about being a xerox copy. It is about Accepting others for what they are - Brahmans & NBs / otherwise.


Well, let me put it this way,

1) every part of TN has its own dialect of tamil - eg. a person from Madurai will communicate in his Madurai slang, throughout.

2) every part of TN has its own - jovial sense ; mannerisms ; approach to situations ; etc. They even have different name for the same food items.

3) every Muslim follows is very easily distinguishable from Hindus, through their appearance and food and dialect , etc.

4) Sikhs wear their own Turban while a Marwari has his own Life style. same goes for people of Saurashtrians and others too ...


If having a group's own identity means that they cant socialize, none of the above groups would ve been able to. But that is Not the way things are.

Again, it is not about being xerox copies to mingle. It is about accepting others for what they are. That is the base of each person "respecting" the other. Simple.

Pefect!!!!!!!!!

I second your revealation of the truth as ground reality and the natural order of prevailing global society among true human beings, Shri niyengaar..

 

[Nara]

What you call name-calling, I call characterizing. I differentiate the type of criticisms that range anywhere from honest criticisms to hate-mongering.

KB, you may call it what you like, but comments like this only create lot of dust and smoke. These name-calling, or characterizations in your words, are mere ad hominem attacks, have no relevance to the validity or lack thereof, of the arguments presented. Your continued proclivity for name-calling, well characterization, is revealing of your desperation.

The difference of opinion regarding the definition is okay as long as there is some consistency.

If you think there is inconsistency, expose it, don't call us hate-mongers -- it is utter nonsense.

For example, those who viewed the word "brahmin" to represent just a caste now associate a character or an attitude "superiority complex" to that word. These very same members were gung-ho against attaching any positive character. There is no honesty in these arguments.

This is a vague charge laced with your own subjective judgments. Further, you are misrepresenting the arguments.

FYI, there is no dispute that Brahmanism is a religion/ideology based on dharmashastras and its followers are not all Brahmins. It is an undeniable fact that supremacist thinking is an essential part of this ideology. To be a brahmin is to assoicate with this ideology. Based on this, I reject your silly charge that there is no honesty in my arguments.

No one is trying to ex-communicate anyone. It appears that folks of your ilk are the ones who are willingly removing yourselves from the community. That is okay; You have the right to do so; but then why pretend that you are a well-wisher of the community?

Whether I am pretending or not, only I know, so please stop making asinine assumptions of this kind.

IMO, it is people who continue to harbor and nurture separatists and supremacist feelings vis-a-vis the rest of the soicety are the worst enemies of ordinary, run-of-the-mill Brahmins. Those of us who want to free them from caste feelings certainly are the well-wishers, no pretending.

Thank you ....

 

[Nara]

....

1) every part of TN has its own dialect of tamil -

Regional differences are value-neutral. Brahmin separateness is different from this. Please read my post carefully.

3) every Muslim follows is very easily distinguishable from Hindus, through their appearance and food and dialect , etc.

4) Sikhs wear their own Turban while a Marwari has his own Life style. same goes for people of Saurashtrians and others too ...

These are not examples of separateness, but being different. My criticism is about the former, not the later. Anybody can become a Muslim or a Sikh, but Brahmins are born. If this distinction escapes you, I am sorry, I can't help it.

Again, it is not about being xerox copies to mingle. It is about accepting others for what they are. That is the base of each person "respecting" the other. Simple.

Please read my post carefully. An aviayal where everyone can be different and yet will not be automatically high or low is what I am envisioning.

Cheers!

 

[niyengaar]

Regional differences are value-neutral. Brahmin separateness is different from this.

naah, you just want to give a reason to differentiate.

Please read my post carefully. An aviayal where everyone can be different and yet will not be automatically high or low is what I am envisioning.

well , if u really want to know aviyal - each vegetable in a aviyal has its own "quality" - and that quality means, while one is rich in X nutrient, another would be rich in Y , and the third in Z.

and that is the very difference i am trying to convey - by saying a no to a high and a low , you mean to again go for a society where everybody are simillar. Not possible. Nor is that the present scenario.

Each will have his/her own plus and minus. That is what differences us from the Robos . And that is why i said, "it is not about being xerox copies to mingle. It is about accepting others for what they are. That is the base of each person "respecting" the other".

If this simple point still escapes you ... well.

These are not examples of separateness, but being different. My criticism is about the former, not the later. Anybody can become a Muslim or a Sikh, but Brahmins are born. If this distinction escapes you, I am sorry, I can't help it.

So you mean to say, when you meet a new person , you look at whether you can become a part of Religion before deciding to socialize with him/her ? as in , you start think like ... " he is a christian - can i get converted ? yes ! wow , so let me socialize" kinda ?

if that be some eligibility criteria someone uses to socialize with me - No Thanks, i am better off without such ...


The only difference between what you envision and what i envision is this :

I envision brahmans through brahmanism - something which comes through hereditary and consists of various good things for life.

you envision brahmans through a few egoistic brahmans - and want to believe that the only trait of brahmans are Egoism and High Headedness.

Unless those who have issues with Brahmans remove their tainted glasses, it just can't be helped.

 

[rishikesan]

Dear friends, I have fairly good knowledge & experience of T.N Dravidian party/ Rule right from First gen Election / 1952. We Brahmins have not changed . They remain peaceful, pursuing their goal, studies/ look for employment/ take responsibility for the family/ support young ones to come up in studies & get high marks to enable higher education (which was much less during Fifties/ Sixties.)
In the last
15years, the situation/ status of Bs have changed tremendously for the better. There is nothing like , discrimination/ lack of opportunity/ suppression by Nbs Etc.
As on date, majority of Brahmin boys/girls have reached U.S. and other wealthy countries because of merit, coupled with hard- work, and above all creating unseen unity among themselves through inter-net/ on line connections. & earn handsome salaries. They all ensure that their parents are compensated for all their sufferings in the last4/5 decades., by way of providing posh flats in India & with Credit Cards, to spend liberally for comfortable living & for good health as well.

What I would like to impress on the necessity of ensuring the upliftment of less fortunate Brahmin Boys/ Girls, by way of creating comprehensive data thru. Internet with the expertise of our intelligent/ capable/ selfless youths. Such an initiative by the youngsters would totally change the outlook of Bs into a Believe it or not FORUM in % years period.

You are welcome to stretch this into practice.

JAI HIND/ Long Live OUR UNITY.
A.Srinvasan
([email protected])

 

[கால பைரவன்]

KB, you may call it what you like, but comments like this only create lot of dust and smoke. These name-calling, or characterizations in your words, are mere ad hominem attacks, have no relevance to the validity or lack thereof, of the arguments presented. Your continued proclivity for name-calling, well characterization, is revealing of your desperation.

My criticisms (or attacks in Nara's opinion) are based on what others write here. Greedy brahmins, sinful brahmins, liar brahmins, supremacist brahmins - these are all attacks. I am merely characterizing those who indulge in such attacks as anti-brahmins. For a person with such strong aversion to brahmin identity, I do not understand why such a hue and cry is raised about being called a neo-non-brahmin. One would think it would be lapped-up without any questioning.

If you think there is inconsistency, expose it

I am doing the best I can.

don't call us hate-mongers. It is non-sense.

Perhaps, generalizing was a mistake. I should have qualified it. In this forum, hate-mongering is directed only against brahmins. People are normal, otherwise. There, qualified it!

It is an undeniable fact that supremacist thinking is an essential part of this ideology. To be a brahmin is to assoicate with this ideology. Based on this, I reject your silly charge that there is no honesty in my arguments.

IMO, it is people who continue to harbor and nurture separatists and supremacist feelings vis-a-vis the rest of the soicety are the worst enemies of ordinary, run-of-the-mill Brahmins.

I could not believe that I will get an opportunity to "expose" the ABs so soon.


Nara had already written that to be a brahmin is to associate with supremacist ideology. No wishy-washy statement. No qualifications. Clear as a crystal! Then who are these ordinary, run-of-the-mill brahmins that he is worried about? He could not write three sentences without being inconsistent; then he accuses others of desperation.


The debate with respect to brahmins is not just about this "supremacist" ideology. In every issue, whether religious, spiritual or secular, these brahmin "well-wishers" have taken up or supported a position that is detrimental to the interests of the brahmins, run-of-the-mill or otherwise. Just a few days before, there was vehement support, by these "well-wishers", to a scheme that discriminated the poor brahmins - most of whom are run-of-the-mill brahmins. So to come around and say that these members have the best interests of brahmins in mind does not reflect the realities.

 

[ShivKC]

My criticisms (or attacks in Nara's opinion) are based on what others write here. Greedy brahmins, sinful brahmins, liar brahmins, supremacist brahmins - these are all attacks. I am merely characterizing those who indulge in such attacks as anti-brahmins.

KB,you said it right, and im with you here!

this is the trait i was also objecting too, and i find very often coming out from the key boards of Nara & happy hindu.

if one vehemently objects to personal attacks (while claiming to be think skinned), he/she should also not resort to attacking any communities/society. .. the damage done here is much much more, than attacking a single person one to one..

this is the main objection, i have presented to get happyhindu banned once.

pls dont resort to such things, and its not in good taste.

 

[happyhindu]

KB,you said it right, and im with you here!

this is the trait i was also objecting too, and i find very often coming out from the key boards of Nara & happy hindu.

if one vehemently objects to personal attacks (while claiming to be think skinned), he/she should also not resort to attacking any communities/society. .. the damage done here is much much more, than attacking a single person one to one..

this is the main objection, i have presented to get happyhindu banned once.

pls dont resort to such things, and its not in good taste.

Saving this post for later...thanks.

 

[niyengaar]

KB,you said it right, and im with you here!

this is the trait i was also objecting too, and i find very often coming out from the key boards of Nara & happy hindu.

if one vehemently objects to personal attacks (while claiming to be think skinned), he/she should also not resort to attacking any communities/society. .. the damage done here is much much more, than attacking a single person one to one..

this is the main objection, i have presented to get happyhindu banned once.

pls dont resort to such things, and its not in good taste.

true.

funny how the thread related to Jihad which refereed to one another religion got banned in a jiffy here by the mods. Especially when the topic was against a group of miscreants and not the religion.

but the tirades against Brahmans alone keep going on and on - and nothing happens against it.


i wonder how the same people would ve reacted had Christianity as a whole / Islam as a whole / Catholics as a whole - were called as "superiority complex"ed people / Greedy / sinful / liar / supremacist kinda stuff.

 

[sarang]

true.

funny how the thread related to Jihad which refereed to one another religion got banned in a jiffy here by the mods. Especially when the topic was against a group of miscreants and not the religion.

but the tirades against Brahmans alone keep going on and on - and nothing happens against it.


i wonder how the same people would ve reacted had Christianity as a whole / Islam as a whole / Catholics as a whole - were called as "superiority complex"ed people / Greedy / sinful / liar / supremacist kinda stuff.

Nothing can be done about it. The secularists, pseudo secularists, christians, muslims, communists and non-believers target only hindus. Progressive hindu equivalents attack brahmins. Since the fundas and the foundation of our matham and brahminism is strong, the battle will eventually be won. But the fight must continue and all must be alert.

 

[niyengaar]

Since the fundas and the foundation of our matham and brahminism is strong, the battle will eventually be won. But the fight must continue and all must be alert.

Well Said !

And as always, while the other group is hell bent on attacking us and our way of life, all we are trying to do is to safeguard ourselves and our way of life. We should be fine.

 

[sangom]

My criticisms (or attacks in Nara's opinion) are based on what others write here. Greedy brahmins, sinful brahmins, liar brahmins, supremacist brahmins - these are all attacks. I am merely characterizing those who indulge in such attacks as anti-brahmins. For a person with such strong aversion to brahmin identity, I do not understand why such a hue and cry is raised about being called a neo-non-brahmin. One would think it would be lapped-up without any questioning.

The debate with respect to brahmins is not just about this "supremacist" ideology. In every issue, whether religious, spiritual or secular, these brahmin "well-wishers" have taken up or supported a position that is detrimental to the interests of the brahmins, run-of-the-mill or otherwise. Just a few days before, there was vehement support, by these "well-wishers", to a scheme that discriminated the poor brahmins - most of whom are run-of-the-mill brahmins. So to come around and say that these members have the best interests of brahmins in mind does not reflect the realities.

Shri KB,

The crux of the problem, imo, is "what is in the best interests of brahmins?" and, "How the best interests of brahmins can be achieved — whether by putting up a brave front saying that brahmins have had no role in the formation of the hindu society as it existed till Independence, that they were an innocent and pure-thinking group with only universal welfare in their minds and were completely egalitarian in their approach and attitude towards the lower classes and castes within the hindu society?", or, "enlighten them with authentic history of what went by so that such awareness will go to shape their thinking and attitudes in future?"

If the policy of this Forum is to promote the former course, rewrite history accordingly (and also many of our scriptures, because those have some tell-tale passages contrary to the whitewashed picture sought to be given for the posterity), etc., all of us whom you have kindly labeled "anti-brahmins" will quit this Forum, sooner or later.

But from my observations during the last one year, Shri Praveen, the owner of this Forum seems to be favourably disposed towards the latter type of views also. Hence, it is for people of both the groups to find some form of continued co-existence and refrain from wishing the wiping out of the opposite pov.

 

[carvaka]

"Since the fundas and the foundation of our matham and brahminism is strong, the battle will eventually be won. But the fight must continue and all must be alert."



I am really sorry that I never understood this statement. I do not know what the fundas and the foundations of our matham and what the continuing fight is all about...I might not be the one who would want to hold a torch for an ideology/idea just for the sake of it even when it doesn't bring any perceptible benefit to the society...I really do not understand his pov...

 

[sarang]

"Since the fundas and the foundation of our matham and brahminism is strong, the battle will eventually be won. But the fight must continue and all must be alert."

I am really sorry that I never understood this statement. I do not know what the fundas and the foundations of our matham and what the continuing fight is all about...I might not be the one who would want to hold a torch for an ideology/idea just for the sake of it even when it doesn't bring any perceptible benefit to the society...I really do not understand his pov...

In simple terms, some want hinduism/sanatana dharma to be replaced by other religions and brhminism/brahmins to be eradicated; this battle had been going on for thousands of years; so there is nothing new.

 

[kunjuppu]

KB,

in my post #56, the essence of my reply to your charges of folks like me, for anti brahminism and associated beliefs, i request you to address this query of mine,which you might have overlooked.

ie what defines a 'brahmin' today. and how different your own practices are from that of your great grandfather.

thank you.

for starters, i think there is a big difference of opinion here as to what defines a brahmin today. i have repeatedly stated, that from beef eating money sankar ayyar to the kanchi mutt whose is fighting a murder charge, and everyone of us in between, are in the eyes of the goi 'paarppaans'.

so, for you to imply, that folks like me, are to be excommunicated from the group that you belong, is a fallacy, and wishful thinking, but not a vessel that would hold even a drop of water. ok?

your great grandfather, might want to call you, based on his values, as a 'neo nob-brahmin', because you dont do sandhyavandhanam, wear a uchu-kudumi or shave your whole body every amavasya or shave the hair of any female unfortunate enough to be widowed in your family. what do you say for that?

 

[sangom]

In simple terms, some want hinduism/sanatana dharma to be replaced by other religions and brhminism/brahmins to be eradicated; this battle had been going on for thousands of years; so there is nothing new.

Shri Sarang, Shri Carvaaka,

The concept of a grand "sanatana dharma" is just a very idealistic figment of imagination which admirably suits the purpose of many of the present day vested interests within the hindu gamut. Please see this thread.

Shri Sarang is very wrong in saying that some people around here want this very magnificent sanatana dharma to be replaced by other religions. Our - if I may take the liberty of speaking for others like Kunjuppu, Nara, Happy Hindu, etc. - attempt is only to present to the large number of readers, a true account of hinduism and the role that the brahmins played in it, without twisting or "whitewashing" facts, (calling a spade a spade so to say) in order that we, the brahmins of today do not feel very much justified and nor feel unnecessarily and unduly proud about our history and heritage.

The battle which Shri Sarang refers to is new and news to me.