Intercaste marriages/Reasons

[Vaagmi]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) WhatsApp Email Share Link

Five minutes back I became a Neelkanta. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Five minutes back I became a Neelkanta. LOL.

Praise the Lord! The Vaishnava has finally become a Shaivite!

Nandi Vahana Naga Bhusana
Hey Neelakantha Shooladhari Hara Shankara.

 

[Vaagmi]

Praise the Lord! The Vaishnava has finally become a Shaivite!

Nandi Vahana Naga Bhusana
Hey Neelakantha Shooladhari Hara Shankara.

Narayana! Narayana!!

This is not that Neelkanta. This is Neelkanta Narayana. Narayana took this avatar at the request of Kupa Mandukeshwari Mathaji.

Mathaji ki Jai. Neelkanta Narayana!! manduka mathaavai Kaappaaththuppaa.

 

[renuka]

Narayana! Narayana!!

This is not that Neelkanta. This is Neelkanta Narayana. Narayana took this avatar at the request of Kupa Mandukeshwari Mathaji.

Mathaji ki Jai. Neelkanta Narayana Kaappaaththuppaa.

Ha Ha Ha..there is no escape. You said Neelakantha and everyone knows who is Neelakantha.

Dont try to escape...all Vaishnavas in forum are going to be very disappointed with you!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Ha Ha Ha..there is no escape. You said Neelakantha and everyone knows who is Neelakantha.

Dont try to escape...all Vaishnavas in forum are going to be very disappointed with you!LOL

Mandu Mathaji was baring her fangs and threatening me saying I have caught you and there is no escape for you. Vaishnavas of the forum came looking for me with red hot shanku and chakra to rebrand me with. I started running and tripped on something. Lo it was the first button.

The Yavanika falls and there is a song in the background in Malayalam:

katha muzhuvan theerum munbey,
yavanika veezhum munbey,
nee maathram vannillallo,
ninnai maathram kandillallo,
prema chakoree, chakoree, chakori.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I have come across a few brahmin boys who hate the way their orthodox parents live. They just want to be let free

to live in the way they want! You are carefully avoiding to write about such characters.

One grandson of a famous sAstrigaL cooly eats non.veg stuff and never feels bad about it. He says that his grandfather

liked to live in a particular way and he wants to be different!

And.... no one can make a person love ONLY from the same caste / sub-caste / religion. When cupid shoots his arrow

even the worst looking male / female will look like a Manmatha / Rati. :lol:

 

[renuka]

prema chakoree, chakoree, chakori.

You mean Chakora Bandhu Sekhara?

 

[sarang]

You are wandering all over. We value all purusharths, dharma-artha-kama- moksha - though the degree of atachment to each may vary with each individual, irrespective of his varna, station in life, jati and upbringing. All spiritual heads I know do not advise poverty to any of thier disciples or visitors - their advice is earn in a righteous way, do not hoard beyond a certain limit and give as much as you can. You are putting the cart before the horse; if one becomes deeply spiritual he may shun wealth and long to lead a simple and frugal life.

It seems to me that Religion promotes poverty.

What has lack of wealth got to do with spirituality?

Can we really preach religion to a starving person?

Nope.

I feel certain amount of wealth is needed for the mind to even focus on Moksha!

Really....we only can renounce something which we had have and used it and then discard it.

A poor man needs to survive first..earn money..support his family and only then he can think even of religion.

What we call religion today is NOT religion..its just a transaction.

Only when we renounce everything is when we really are religious and thats the only day we really pray...a desireless prayer.

But religious heads seems to favor mankind to be suffering in poverty just to hoodwink them into thinking that lack of material wealth = spirituality.

I read once that a beggar might think he is the same as Lord Buddha becos even Lord Buddha is begging.

But the truth is Lord Buddha gave up everything after having known it..but the beggar has not given up anything cos he has not had a chance to know it yet.

 

[sangom]

It seems to me that Religion promotes poverty.

What has lack of wealth got to do with spirituality?

Can we really preach religion to a starving person?

Nope.

I feel certain amount of wealth is needed for the mind to even focus on Moksha!

Really....we only can renounce something which we had have and used it and then discard it.

A poor man needs to survive first..earn money..support his family and only then he can think even of religion.

What we call religion today is NOT religion..its just a transaction.

Only when we renounce everything is when we really are religious and thats the only day we really pray...a desireless prayer.

But religious heads seems to favor mankind to be suffering in poverty just to hoodwink them into thinking that lack of material wealth = spirituality.

I read once that a beggar might think he is the same as Lord Buddha becos even Lord Buddha is begging.

But the truth is Lord Buddha gave up everything after having known it..but the beggar has not given up anything cos he has not had a chance to know it yet.

Poverty coupled with ignorance, lack of education, gullibility of a high order, etc., are the fertile grounds for cultivation of religion, schisms, etc. This is a reality of this world. The better-off countries have populations which are not as completely submerged by religion (exceptions being some of the Islamic countries) as the poorer countries. India's poverty is even now appallingly high, despite 67 years of democracy and all that. There are more billionaires now and for them religion is perhaps a time-pass like many other things; but, for the poor people their religion, caste, sub-caste, guru/godman, etc., count a lot. Godman Rampal of Haryana and the extent of his followers, is the most recent example.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I have come across a few brahmin boys who hate the way their orthodox parents live. They just want to be let free

to live in the way they want! You are carefully avoiding to write about such characters.

One grandson of a famous sAstrigaL cooly eats non.veg stuff and never feels bad about it. He says that his grandfather

liked to live in a particular way and he wants to be different!

And.... no one can make a person love ONLY from the same caste / sub-caste / religion. When cupid shoots his arrow

even the worst looking male / female will look like a Manmatha / Rati. :lol:

RRji.
A single tree does not make a forest. I always prefer to speak about the community and not few exceptions. Even those few cases you have mentioned may be due to overbearing elders. When cupid strikes he strikes a system called a human being. That system is a whole. Not just the age, emotions, hormones and pheromones. There is also a value system in effective control. That system depends on parents, peers, elders and experiences. And parents and elders have a major role. If the value system is strong hormones get subordinated.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

i have queried many couples who have married across religions and castes, the reason for choosing out of their clan. the reasons are numerous.

one of the interesting case was that of an iyengar girl who married a christian. her husband was her project mentor in her office. she being far away from her hometown, was staying in a pg accommodation. towards completing her project she found it convenient to visit her mentor's house during weekends and holidays and work on the project from her mentor's home. during her visits the mentor's parent also became friends. she continued to visit them even after the project was over. to her amazement she discovered that they are strict vegetarians. their house was kept neat, clean and tidy. they were tension free, always happy. there was total absence of madi, pathu etc. she proposed to her mentor, who in turn discussed the matter with his parents and after long consideration the parents agreed and they got married. there is no prostrating before elders. she is as free as the daughters of her in-laws. no customs, traditions, artificialities, etc which she piled up. she is not compelled to visit places of worship. although her in-laws follow a discipline of reading the bible and discussing the contents, she was never compelled to participate in the discussion. to cut a long story short, she was disillusioned with too much of customs and traditions that would have been imposed on her had she married an iyengar.

although i do not approve of her reason, i think we need to seriously introspect into our own selves and reform our practices, lest we witness an erosion of members of our own community.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

i trust we should inspire our children to read our scriptures and learn to appreciate the tenets, principles and precepts in our scriptures and stop at that. i think we must not impose our faith and belief upon them, compel them to follow customs and traditions which they may not like, but leave to their choice to follow whatever they like as long as it does not harm them in any way.

 

[Raji Ram]

It is rightly pointed out about 'madi and AchAram' which many find difficult to follow.

When I got married, I had to learn a lot in my in-laws' house, since our parents used to observe strict madi only on special days.

It was a daily affair in that village and I found a bit difficult to manage. I am talking about late 70s!

Even now, I wish to change the way of cleaning the floor on pooja days, after each 'pandhi' is over. A bit of cow dung mixed with

water has to be used to clean the floor, by right hand. It is impossible to change this method! :sad:

 

[sangom]

i have queried many couples who have married across religions and castes, the reason for choosing out of their clan. the reasons are numerous.

one of the interesting case was that of an iyengar girl who married a christian. her husband was her project mentor in her office. she being far away from her hometown, was staying in a pg accommodation. towards completing her project she found it convenient to visit her mentor's house during weekends and holidays and work on the project from her mentor's home. during her visits the mentor's parent also became friends. she continued to visit them even after the project was over. to her amazement she discovered that they are strict vegetarians. their house was kept neat, clean and tidy. they were tension free, always happy. there was total absence of madi, pathu etc. she proposed to her mentor, who in turn discussed the matter with his parents and after long consideration the parents agreed and they got married. there is no prostrating before elders. she is as free as the daughters of her in-laws. no customs, traditions, artificialities, etc which she piled up. she is not compelled to visit places of worship. although her in-laws follow a discipline of reading the bible and discussing the contents, she was never compelled to participate in the discussion. to cut a long story short, she was disillusioned with too much of customs and traditions that would have been imposed on her had she married an iyengar.

although i do not approve of her reason, i think we need to seriously introspect into our own selves and reform our practices, lest we witness an erosion of members of our own community.

Shri Brahmachariji,

The world is ever changing and change has been eternal. Even the customs, madi, aachaaram, etc., which are observed by many self-boasting "orthodox" families has definitely undergone changes if we compare the situation 200 years or so ago. Many of the present customs (like cowdung for cleaning "panfhi" as Smt. RR suggests) has lost its relevance today. In these circumstances what wise parents should do is to analyze our customs, madi, aachaarams, etc., rationally, and, even if they (the parents themselves) are mentally unwilling to give up some of those pointless customs, no compulsion should be put on the younger generations to follow all those outdated customs without questioning.

Such an attitude will help the youngsters to follow those customs which they feel are logically correct and good for themselves.

 

[Vaagmi]

i have queried many couples who have married across religions and castes, the reason for choosing out of their clan. the reasons are numerous.

one of the interesting case was that of an iyengar girl who married a christian. her husband was her project mentor in her office. she being far away from her hometown, was staying in a pg accommodation. towards completing her project she found it convenient to visit her mentor's house during weekends and holidays and work on the project from her mentor's home. during her visits the mentor's parent also became friends. she continued to visit them even after the project was over. to her amazement she discovered that they are strict vegetarians. their house was kept neat, clean and tidy. they were tension free, always happy. there was total absence of madi, pathu etc. she proposed to her mentor, who in turn discussed the matter with his parents and after long consideration the parents agreed and they got married. there is no prostrating before elders. she is as free as the daughters of her in-laws. no customs, traditions, artificialities, etc which she piled up. she is not compelled to visit places of worship. although her in-laws follow a discipline of reading the bible and discussing the contents, she was never compelled to participate in the discussion. to cut a long story short, she was disillusioned with too much of customs and traditions that would have been imposed on her had she married an iyengar.

although i do not approve of her reason, i think we need to seriously introspect into our own selves and reform our practices, lest we witness an erosion of members of our own community.

Hi Brahma,

For girls to deviate from the tradition and get into a IC/IR marriage there are several reasons.

some of them are: overbearing parents who recklessly imposed their will on the children, biological peculiarities, opportunities that proximity gives, immaturity, peer pressure, life's experiences, money etc.,

The "iyengar"(perhaps by that word hangs another story) girl you have mentioned had the opportunity to go astray and she grabbed it without bothering about the seriousness/consequences. As you have said, being vegetarians, neatness, cleanliness and tidiness (I frankly do not know the fine difference between these three), being tension free (?), always being happy (?), the "total absence" of madi and pathu were all 'amazing' to her. That indicates the level of maturity of that girl. And that also indicates what she considered as desirable in the in-law's house. With such a hare's brain she got what she deserved. The TB community won't lose sleep over that.

I do not know why you have brought in the "long" time the parents of the boy took for considering the proposal before saying ok. Was the boy not reciprocating the love? Was it one way traffic? Did the boy not propose? Did the boy not speak to his parents? So they thought they were doing a great favour to the girl by agreeing to take her as D-in-law. LOL. Very interesting.

It appears the girl believed and in turn you too believe that the brahmins' houses are less tidy, less clean, less neat, they live a tense life 24 hours a day 7 days a week non stop, are always unhappy, madi and pathu are horrible pagan or aboriginal practices etc., So I have nothing to say about them.

Cutting all that short you have chipped in with this gem "she was disillusioned with too much of customs and traditions that would have been imposed on her had she married an iyengar". That brings us to the question: "How much of customs and traditions is ideal". May be the girl would have learnt that from her NB in-laws and husband. You may gather that and give us here.

 

[Vaagmi]

Shri Brahmachariji,

The world is ever changing and change has been eternal. Even the customs, madi, aachaaram, etc., which are observed by many self-boasting "orthodox" families has definitely undergone changes if we compare the situation 200 years or so ago. Many of the present customs (like cowdung for cleaning "panfhi" as Smt. RR suggests) has lost its relevance today. In these circumstances what wise parents should do is to analyze our customs, madi, aachaarams, etc., rationally, and, even if they (the parents themselves) are mentally unwilling to give up some of those pointless customs, no compulsion should be put on the younger generations to follow all those outdated customs without questioning.

Such an attitude will help the youngsters to follow those customs which they feel are logically correct and good for themselves.

Respected sangom sirji,

Brahmins are changing just as others are changing.

Cowdung for cleaning panthi is given up but in its place we use dettol mixed water. What is involved is Echil and its obnoxious effects on people who come in contact with it. Cow dung in those days was equal to a disinfectant these days. Brahmins too have changed as dettol is available in plenty.

Madi had also a reason. You sure know it. It has its relevance even today. That we do not follow it is another matter. But it was not aboriginal to have had that practice.

Aacharam like drinking water from the glass without touching the lips, using silver or copper vessels for giving water to strangers etc had sound reasons. And I am sure you know that.

Because we find NBs eating food from any plate (plate used by others), sipping water from the glass and giving water to others in the same glass, several people eating from the same plate, wearing the same dress for weeks together, wearing lungis which camouflages the dirt effectively and hence does not require washing daily etc., we feel that these practices are restrictive.

Are they all really mere outdated customs?

After giving up all good practices, how will the youngsters follow them after understanding their logical correctness etc.,? Bring it back?

I think what is preferable will be to follow the practices and in course of time when circumstances make them irrelevant, give them up carefully--like when we get our disinfectant dettol mixed water readily.

 

[Vaagmi]

Poverty coupled with ignorance, lack of education, gullibility of a high order, etc., are the fertile grounds for cultivation of religion, schisms, etc. This is a reality of this world. The better-off countries have populations which are not as completely submerged by religion (exceptions being some of the Islamic countries) as the poorer countries. India's poverty is even now appallingly high, despite 67 years of democracy and all that. There are more billionaires now and for them religion is perhaps a time-pass like many other things; but, for the poor people their religion, caste, sub-caste, guru/godman, etc., count a lot. Godman Rampal of Haryana and the extent of his followers, is the most recent example.

The most populous countries of the world, China and Soviet Union (till recently a single massive entity) were not religious. And they were not rich either.

So where goes this logic?

 

[JR]

Intercaste marriages: Mostly it is the young people who develop a liking for a special person in their heart that go to the extent of wanting to marry people from other castes. Grown and mature people mostly only want brides and grooms from their own caste. In society, whenever brahmins venture into marrying the spouse from other castes, it creates some kind of stigma for the parents. So mostly to avoid this stigma, people would like their children to marry within their caste. Also, the second category is really mature people who have remained unmarried for years for some reason or other, such as great amount of family responsibilities, etc. Even such people get into intercaste marriages.

I still remember, when young (as a 15 yr old), I developed such an infatuation of a handsome gentleman in my relation who was 10 yrs older to me and was not even a graduate - just a 10th std pass. He did very ordinary jobs, but to me, he seemed like some 'deva dhuta'. Not to mention he was actually a nice person, but still my infatuation for him was far great. But because I was very young, nobody paid any serious notice to my infatuation. And then, because I saw him close to never and also since he got married by the time I was 22, I completely forgot him. But if I had met him close to my marriageable age, I would have definitely married him! So it is young people that don't mind caste mixes but older generation that is against such mix-ups for social reasons.

 

[renuka]

Because we find NBs eating food from any plate (plate used by others), sipping water from the glass and giving water to others in the same glass, several people eating from the same plate, wearing the same dress for weeks together, wearing lungis which camouflages the dirt effectively and hence does not require washing daily etc., we feel that these practices are restrictive.

????? I feel this is not always accurate Vaagmi ji,

I have no idea who you have been noticing.

As far as I know NBs too never eat each others eaten food or share same drinks with each other.

When I was young..each one of us used to have a separate stainless steel plate and tumbler with ours names engraved with it.

My dad never used to allow each us siblings to share each others food.

Even when washing of plates my dad used to make sure that adult plates are not washed with children's plates and different set of washing liquid is used.

Even in washing machine ..adult clothes were washed separate from children's clothes.

I used to think that my dad was carrying all this a bit too far but that is how I grew up and my dad's family too practices the same.

I will relate an incident..once when I was some 5 years old I was sipping a drink and my younger female cousin aged 4 came up and took a sip from my drink..my younger cousins mum gave a proper scolding to her daughter for drinking my drink.

Now coming to clothes..as far as I know no one wears the same clothes for weeks.

But when I was in India I noted many Indians of whatever caste used the same garment from morning till they had their bath in the late evening.

It was only those from other countries who used to change clothes often..they would wear 1 set of dress for day time..then come back in afternoon..have a bath again and change a set of dress for afternoon lecture and then have a bath again in the evening at have another set of dress for night outings.

But the Indians even from well to do homes never changed dress as often.
They had no excuse..they were not poor.

I can understand if a poor person wears the same Lungi for an extended period of time and he might not have access to proper water supply to clean his clothes.

So I feel its not a Brahmin or Non Brahmin thing when it comes to hygeine.....education level and socio economic status determines our personal habits.

 

[renuka]

I still remember, when young (as a 15 yr old), I developed such an infatuation of a handsome gentleman in my relation who was 10 yrs older to me and was not even a graduate - just a 10th std pass. He did very ordinary jobs, but to me, he seemed like some 'deva dhuta'. Not to mention he was actually a nice person, but still my infatuation for him was far great. But because I was very young, nobody paid any serious notice to my infatuation. And then, because I saw him close to never and also since he got married by the time I was 22, I completely forgot him. But if I had met him close to my marriageable age, I would have definitely married him! So it is young people that don't mind caste mixes but older generation that is against such mix-ups for social reasons.

Dear JR,

I was even younger when I had my first infatuation.

I think I was some 10 or 11 years.

I really liked this one person whom I saw in a picture.

I used to think He looked really captivating.

He was none other than Lord Shiva.

As a child I was kind of crazy for Lord Shiva.

Now I am no more crazy for any specific Devata but some how Lord Shiva Bhajans are still my favorite..it has some special beat to it that can make you feel like dancing.

 

[krish44]

????? I feel this is not always accurate Vaagmi ji,

I have no idea who you have been noticing.

As far as I know NBs too never eat each others eaten food or share same drinks with each other.

When I was young..each one of us used to have a separate stainless steel plate and tumbler with ours names engraved with it.

My dad never used to allow each us siblings to share each others food.

Even when washing of plates my dad used to make sure that adult plates are not washed with children's plates and different set of washing liquid is used.

Even in washing machine ..adult clothes were washed separate from children's clothes.

I used to think that my dad was carrying all this a bit too far but that is how I grew up and my dad's family too practices the same.

I will relate an incident..once when I was some 5 years old I was sipping a drink and my younger female cousin aged 4 came up and took a sip from my drink..my younger cousins mum gave a proper scolding to her daughter for drinking my drink.

Now coming to clothes..as far as I know no one wears the same clothes for weeks.

But when I was in India I noted many Indians of whatever caste used the same garment from morning till they had their bath in the late evening.

It was only those from other countries who used to change clothes often..they would wear 1 set of dress for day time..then come back in afternoon..have a bath again and change a set of dress for afternoon lecture and then have a bath again in the evening at have another set of dress for night outings.

But the Indians even from well to do homes never changed dress as often.
They had no excuse..they were not poor.

I can understand if a poor person wears the same Lungi for an extended period of time and he might not have access to proper water supply to clean his clothes.

So I feel its not a Brahmin or Non Brahmin thing when it comes to hygeine.....education level and socio economic status determines our personal habits.

Renukaji
There is something called a brahmin mindset which considers whatever they do as good what those of other castes or religion as bad. They have a way of implying

others are unhygenic or dirty while I know in many brahmin homes where, ladies use their hands and not spoons for serving curries or even liquids on plates of people

claiming acharam. Same regards clothes. You just have to go to temples to see umpteen boys from not so well of families wearing dirty unwashed dhoties, Poverty in

many cases is the reason. They is a total non acceptance of the fact that education and economic staus of other castes has gone up substantially and is challenging the

brahmin hegemony.

ladies of the community who were subjected to ill treatment due to their economic dependance are now breaking free and destroying the brahminical order with their

mothers also as willing accomplices. besides these girls are over throwing the practices ,rituals , which they consider meaningless besides adopting dresses and hair

styles which suit them in terms of functionality at work place and fashion trends. Traditional dresses [like madisar] are if at all worn is for occassions.

It is a matter of time that education and job besides good looks will decide whom girls will marry not caste or religion.Sooner brahmins come to terms with it ,better it

is. Now it is educated girls way or highway

 

[biswa]

Because we find NBs eating food from any plate (plate used by others), sipping water from the glass and giving water to others in the same glass, several people eating from the same plate, wearing the same dress for weeks together, wearing lungis which camouflages the dirt effectively and hence does not require washing daily etc., we feel that these practices are restrictive.

This is such a horrible generalization and a hate-filled post. Vaagmi keeps promoting these ridiculous statements time and again. He seems to inhabit a parallel universe all by himself only with only his ludicrousness to accompany him.

 

[Raji Ram]

.............. Brahmins are changing just as others are changing.

Cowdung for cleaning panthi is given up but in its place we use dettol mixed water. ..........

Dear Sir,
You are most :welcome: to our village sweet home in Thenkarai, to see the old cleaning method. :ballchain:

Some people NEVER change! :sad:

P.S: Since the floor is rough, I have been suggesting to use a new short broom and cow dung water, if a must, but in vain!

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Because we find NBs eating food from any plate (plate used by others), sipping water from the glass and giving water to others in the same glass, several people eating from the same plate, wearing the same dress for weeks together, wearing lungis which camouflages the dirt effectively and hence does not require washing daily etc., we feel that these practices are restrictive.
..........

OMG! In which century are you living Sir?

A big NO to the list you have given. These may be done by the poorest of the poor and not by other nonbrams.

I have seen many tambram guys wearing the same jeans several times and claim that 'the more dirty, the more valuable!' :shocked:

 

[renuka]

OMG! In which century are you living Sir?

A big NO to the list you have given. These may be done by the poorest of the poor and not by other nonbrams.

Dear RR ji,

When I was in India and had rural postings ...some of the villagers were very poor but even then they had bath and did not have body odour.

Its just that their clothes were worn out and torn due to poverty but I have seen even beggar kids on the road have separate eating bowls from their parents.