Comparing intercaste marriages (TB vs Other Brahmins)

[sravna]

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Let's at least do away with physical force. That will be a great start.

 

[sravna]

I think it is easier said than done! Requires the positive influence of mind and removing the enemies of mind. But definitely one can make necessary progress to contribute to a safe and danger free world.

 

[renuka]

As Shri. Ganesh says the warrior aspect is important and has to be incorporated. It has to naturally align with the sattvic aspect. It implies greater evolution. So the wrong thing to do would be not to wean oneself away from sattvic qualities but elevate it with rajassic qualities.

Why be so attached to the idea of Gunas?
When we are in deep sleep, what Guna are we in?
Every night we are without Gunas when we are in deep sleep.

So why not we try to just see things as it is?
Be precise and surgical without being swayed by Gunas.

Sattva guna itself has risks of being judgemental.
Rajas has the risk of violence.
Tamas has the risk of self destruction.

But if we cultivate the pattern of seeing something as it is, we would be in the state of balance where all 3 Gunas shed their negative shades and we would be more efficient and accurate.

 

[sravna]

Well said Renuka. I stand corrected with regard to fundamental truth. But the emphasis on sattva was because of violent current times.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Why be so attached to the idea of Gunas?
When we are in deep sleep, what Guna are we in?
Every night we are without Gunas when we are in deep sleep.

So why not we try to just see things as it is?
Be precise and surgical without being swayed by Gunas.

Sattva guna itself has risks of being judgemental.
Rajas has the risk of violence.
Tamas has the risk of self destruction.

But if we cultivate the pattern of seeing something as it is, we would be in the state of balance where all 3 Gunas shed their negative shades and we would be more efficient and accurate.

Whether we are attached to gunas or the gunas are attached to us needs to be investigated, researched.

Every individual possesses the above gunas. Any one or some or all of these surface on different occasions depending on circumstances.

Gunas are needed. They are indispensable. Gunas are inborn with individuals. Gunas are resources we are endowed with. Do we harness them appropriately?

Even when awake we are in deep sleep. Gunas surface even during our dreams.

We are awake only when our spirit man raises from sleep. Only then we would appropriate the gunas perfectly, efficiency and accuracy ensured.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

I think it is easier said than done! Requires the positive influence of mind and removing the enemies of mind. But definitely one can make necessary progress to contribute to a safe and danger free world.

Our worst enemies are within us. when we conquer the inner ones, we would love our external enemies.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Sravna,

For centuries we TBs have lived in a shell, in a cocoon, in agraharams, a world of our own.

We thought we were the most intelligent creatures on earth, the holiest, the sharpest intellectuals, the cleanest, the most cultured, civilized, the most superior race in the entire universe, in whom alone God dwells etc etc. The teacher of advaita is one among us, isn't hence!!

But the change in times and circumstances, inter-caste marriages for instance, had exposed the reality, unmasked us, opened our eyes to the reality. We realised we have been deluding ourselves over centuries. We are unable to accept the reality. The ego in us is stirred. We want to fight a lost battle. The shell and cocoon is broken. We are uncomfortable. Unable to come to terms with reality. We feel insecure.

We want to say "sarukki vizhundhaalum meesayil man ottavillai". Isn't it!!

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

For centuries we TBs have lived in a shell, in a cocoon, in agraharams, a world of our own.

We thought we were the most intelligent creatures on earth, the holiest, the sharpest intellectuals, the cleanest, the most cultured, civilized etc etc.

But the change in times and circumstances, inter-caste marriages for instance, had exposed the reality, unmasked us, opened our eyes to the reality. We realised we have been deluding ourselves over centuries. We are unable to accept the reality. The ego in us is stirred. We want to fight a lost battle. The shell and cocoon is broken. We are uncomfortable. Unable to come to terms with reality. We feel insecure.

We want to say "sarukki vizhundhaalum meesayil man ottavillai". Isn't it!!

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Dear Shri.GS,

I partly agree with what you say. We were fully spiritually oriented and ignored the external reality. The shock that comes because of being exposed to unpleasant external reality is real. Many of us with inclinations for external reality were pragmatic and adapted to the new reality. Many others were not able to because they were deeply entrenched in spirituality.

My own view is let us not totally reject both. I am not saying science and technology do not have a place but actually are integral to ones life. While embracing that let's not move away from our invaluable roots. Let us take the best of both and integrate them in a constructive way. The world will benefit from Indian spirituality and we will benefit from the knowledge due to science.

 

[sravna]

You will agree there is no equal to the type of spiritual knowledge we have developed just as in science and technology westerners reign supreme. Why not we get credit for our knowledge and more importantly why not that be employed for the good of all?

 

[sravna]

The world needs spirituality a lot more today than more progress in science and technology.

 

[sravna]

The world does not need more geniuses. It needs more people who are normal.

 

[sravna]

Our worst enemies are within us. when we conquer the inner ones, we would love our external enemies.

Yes GS Sir the only enemies are within us. When we conquer them we don't consider anyone as an enemy in the external world.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Shri.GS,

I partly agree with what you say. We were fully spiritually oriented and ignored the external reality. The shock that comes because of being exposed to unpleasant external reality is real. Many of us with inclinations for external reality were pragmatic and adapted to the new reality. Many others were not able to because they were deeply entrenched in spirituality.

My own view is let us not totally reject both. I am not saying science and technology do not have a place but actually are integral to ones life. While embracing that let's not move away from our invaluable roots. Let us take the best of both and integrate them in a constructive way. The world will benefit from Indian spirituality and we will benefit from the knowledge due to science.

Let us keep science and technology apart. Let us not confuse them here.

Whether our forefathers were 'entrenched in spirituality' needs to be explored and is debatable.

The term 'Indian spirituality' appears vague and unclear and even ambiguous to my un-intellectual mind. I am what Renuka called who I am, G0. Thankfully we are the majority in the world. All that we know is to Love the Creator and Love fellow human beings. Greater Love has no man than this who sacrifices his life for his friends. Worship the Creator not the creation. Admire and Glorify not the creation but the Creator for his creation. That is all the spirituality we know. That is all that our limited mind and intellect can comprehend and reach. Thankfully our population is increasing and a day will come when we will rule the world and the world would be an Utopia for everyone. The world would be one village.

'Spirituality' is an ocean and if we discuss in this thread we would be digressing from the main topic of this thread. Perhaps we shall discuss in a separate thread exclusively for that purpose.

I request you to consider the following facts.

Some time during the earlier part of 20th Century, Prabhupada Das (PD), the founder of ISKCON landed on the shores of USA with just his version of Bhagwad Gita. He found thousands of hippies, psychic ruts, mired in drugs and battling with depression etc. He preached the Gita to them, prescribed the Hare Krishna maha mantra to them. The result, to the last hippy, everyone became an ISKCONite, with completely shaven face, tonsured scalp, sporting a tuft, dorning orange panchakacham and kurta, chanting the HKMM. During the second half of the 20C, they were ubiquitous. The hippy culture is almost extinct. On a global scale, the white-skinned non-Indian ISKCONites, from across almost every European origin viz British, German, Spanish, Polish etc. outnumber the Indian-origin-ISKCONites. There are more ISKCON centres and temples in the USA than in India.

At present, there are almost thousand hindu temples across the USA. The largest Swami Narayan temple is in USA, not in India. There are more planned to be built. A good number of non-hindu American origin Americans also visit and worship these temples.

And it is worthy to mention JK, Rajneesh etc who had captivated a large western audience and had garnered a huge fan following among westerners.

Now who has influenced whom!

Disclaimer: Any resemblances to any text or scripture of any of the above quotes, is a coincidence.

 

[renuka]

Let us keep science and technology apart. Let us not confuse them here.

Whether our forefathers were 'entrenched in spirituality' needs to be explored and is debatable.

The term 'Indian spirituality' appears vague and unclear and even ambiguous to my un-intellectual mind. I am what Renuka called who I am, G0. Thankfully we are the majority in the world. All that we know is to Love the Creator and Love fellow human beings. Greater Love has no man than this who sacrifices his life for his friends. Worship the Creator not the creation. Admire and Glorify not the creation but the Creator for his creation. That is all the spirituality we know. That is all that our limited mind and intellect can comprehend and reach. Thankfully our population is increasing and a day will come when we will rule the world and the world would be an Utopia for everyone. The world would be one village.

'Spirituality' is an ocean and if we discuss in this thread we would be digressing from the main topic of this thread. Perhaps we shall discuss in a separate thread exclusively for that purpose.

I request you to consider the following facts.

Some time during the earlier part of 20th Century, Prabhupada Das (PD), the founder of ISKCON landed on the shores of USA with just his version of Bhagwad Gita. He found thousands of hippies, psychic ruts, mired in drugs and battling with depression etc. He preached the Gita to them, prescribed the Hare Krishna maha mantra to them. The result, to the last hippy, everyone became an ISKCONite, with completely shaven face, tonsured scalp, sporting a tuft, dorning orange panchakacham and kurta, chanting the HKMM. During the second half of the 20C, they were ubiquitous. The hippy culture is almost extinct. On a global scale, the white-skinned non-Indian ISKCONites, from across almost every European origin viz British, German, Spanish, Polish etc. outnumber the Indian-origin-ISKCONites. There are more ISKCON centres and temples in the USA than in India.

At present, there are almost thousand hindu temples across the USA. The largest Swami Narayan temple is in USA, not in India. There are more planned to be built. A good number of non-hindu American origin Americans also visit and worship these temples.

And it is worthy to mention JK, Rajneesh etc who had captivated a large western audience and had garnered a huge fan following among westerners.

Now who has influenced whom!

Disclaimer: Any resemblances to any text or scripture of any of the above quotes, is a coincidence.

There are no coincidences.
There is no harm qouting any religious text and give it due respect.

I once saw a video of a very famous Swamiji who said " some sufi said that God is closer to us than our jugular vein"

Now, God closer than our jugular vein is from the Quran and that Swamiji was not born a Hindu but born a Muslim and he preaches Vedanta now..thats totally fine.
I have high regard for him as his teachings are very good and I have bought his books too..but I still felt he should have said " God is closer to us than our jugular vein" is from The Quran instead of saying " some sufi said so"

So no matter where we quote from..be it Veda or Puran or Gita or Quran or Torah or Bible or Guru Granth or Buddhist Dharmapada or you are tapping into the Akhashic records...kindly give its due respect instead of a disclaimer.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

The problem is people are not willing to give due credit to any non westerner. This includes people who are Indians too. We rush to give credit to a westerner even if the effects are marginal and isolated and project it as the attitude of all the westerners. This white skin admiration has been the undoing especially the South brahmins. The Muslims are far smarter and self respecting when it comes to this.

I agree Islam has been isolated because of acts of a few and denied their well deserved recognition in many aspects.

Till the white skin love continues we Indians and especially brahmins will never think good of our culture.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

The problem is people are not willing to give due credit to any non westerner. This includes people who are Indians too. We rush to give credit to a westerner even if the effects are marginal and isolated and project it as the attitude of all the westerners. This white skin admiration has been the undoing especially the South brahmins. The Muslims are far smarter and self respecting when it comes to this.

I agree Islam has been isolated because of acts of a few and denied their well deserved recognition in many aspects.

Till the white skin love continues we Indians and especially brahmins will never think good of our culture.

Dear Sravna,
No idea if its anything to do with skin color but overall may be people prefer leading a modernized life style.
I dont feel anyone thinks negatively of their own culture but these days working hours have increased..traffic jams..people have lack of sleep,school kids are over burdened with too many subjects in school..then tuition classes etc..so there is little time for cultural practices.
But internally the culture might still remain in thoughts.

 

[sravna]

Yes the entropy is increasing. It is bound to reach utter chaos with culture soon not even in the mind. This is indicated in one of the previous posts.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,
No idea if its anything to do with skin color but overall may be people prefer leading a modernized life style.
I dont feel anyone thinks negatively of their own culture but these days working hours have increased..traffic jams..people have lack of sleep,school kids are over burdened with too many subjects in school..then tuition classes etc..so there is little time for cultural practices.
But internally the culture might still remain in thoughts.

It has to do with the skin color. That's as flimsy as it can get. Skin deep

 

[sravna]

The white man uses force and the glamour of materialism adeptly to drive home the perception of superiority of white skin

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

The white man uses force and the glamour of materialism adeptly to drive home the perception of superiority of white skin

.... and the white man has miserably failed.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Yes the entropy is increasing. It is bound to reach utter chaos with culture soon not even in the mind. This is indicated in one of the previous posts.

As per the laws of thermodynamics, Entropy is a finite entity.

 

[sravna]

Whether white man has failed or succeeded depends on ones perspective. If one agrees that ethical values are important, that the world is a lot more dangerous and selfish place than even 100 years the rough period for which the white Americans were at the helm, and if one agrees morality has sunk to an abyssmal low then yes you are correct the white man has miserably failed.

 

[sravna]

The world has seen pathetic, anysmal lows but this low goes well below all those.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Sravna,

For centuries we TBs have lived in a shell, in a cocoon, in agraharams, a world of our own.

We thought we were the most intelligent creatures on earth, the holiest, the sharpest intellectuals, the cleanest, the most cultured, civilized, the most superior race in the entire universe, in whom alone God dwells etc etc. The teacher of advaita is one among us, isn't hence!!

But the change in times and circumstances, inter-caste marriages for instance, had exposed the reality, unmasked us, opened our eyes to the reality. We realised we have been deluding ourselves over centuries. We are unable to accept the reality. The ego in us is stirred. We want to fight a lost battle. The shell and cocoon is broken. We are uncomfortable. Unable to come to terms with reality. We feel insecure.

We want to say "sarukki vizhundhaalum meesayil man ottavillai". Isn't it!!

Please correct me if I am wrong.

After being and reading on this site I agree with your observation of Tamil Brahmins who live Chennai or in "Tamil" enclaves of Delhi and Mumbai. I lived outside of that pond. We were just regular folks trying to find our place in the masses. At home we practiced the customs of the ancient Tamil in a sea of non-Tamils. So, we were humble and managed to keep our heads above water.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

After being and reading on this site I agree with your observation of Tamil Brahmins who live Chennai or in "Tamil" enclaves of Delhi and Mumbai. I lived outside of that pond. We were just regular folks trying to find our place in the masses. At home we practiced the customs of the ancient Tamil in a sea of non-Tamils. So, we were humble and managed to keep our heads above water.

Hi Prasad,

It cheers me to note that you practiced the customs of the ancient Tamil in a non-Tamil region. That is a challenge indeed, like singing your Lord's song in a strange land (..and this is from Boney M number and not from any scripture lest I be misinterpreted. Any resemblance to 1374 is coincidental).

Please specify in unambiguous terms what you practiced, what you practically DID which distinctly identifies it as 'Tamil Brahmin Custom'. You will be doing a great favour if you post your comments in the 'Tamil Brahmin Culture and Spirituality' thread opened exclusively for this purpose.

Thanks.

Regards,
GS