Intercaste marriages/Reasons

[Raji Ram]

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dear mz raji ram,

in this case i mentioned in my post #131, there was no 2nd marriage. this american-turned-brahmin wife of my friend follows/observes only brahmin customs/traditions. she does not go to church although she was a catholic prior to marriage. this couple have a son whose yagnopaveetham was recently held in coimbatore. amazingly, she could speak brahmin tamil fluently. her american father gifted her son a cd which teaches sandhyavandhanam.

:clap2: to that lady!

 

[renuka]

It might be because in other states historically Brahmins have entered into marriages with the intermediate castes oftener. In Kerala we had this custom called Sambandham by which the Nambudiris who were not the eldest of the family entered into loose matrimonial alliances with the women of the Nair caste. As a result many of the Nairs of Kerala are secretly proud that they carry Nambudiri genes in their blood. This makes the typical Nair a characteristic upholder of Hindu values and customs and makes the Brahmins job that much easier. The Nambudiris were always clear that Nairs belong to Sudra caste. Contrast TN where if I am not mistaken the leaders of Dravidian parties used to belong to the intermediate castes only.

Yup..I have read about Sambandhan where a Nair women used to have liaison with Namboodhiris and her illichavaiyan Nair husband did not mind that another man is with his wife becos Nair females were allowed multiple partners.

Then I also read..dont know how far its true that even when a Nair girl comes to age..she will be "visited" by a Namboo and even then the Nair father wont mind!

The Namboodhiris never really married Nair females as far as I know.

Even the children born thru such liaisons even though the father is a Namboos but child is still considered a Sudra and the "untouchability" rules and regulations still applied.

It is strange that Namboos seem to have a rather un-vedic practice of co habiting with woman without marriage but they kept their own woman safely un-touched mostly and if they went out they needed to cover their faces with umbrellas.

But try telling this story to any Nair and they will never believe you..they get really mad and shout back saying "we are not immoral! who told you this"!LOL

BTW who wants to feel proud of carrying any genes that came tru an illicit liaison?
Unless some Namboos managed to convince a Nair that a drop of retas from a Namboo can purify the entire generation of Nair including those in Pitr Loka...its must be some exploitation like how the Whites used to exploit African Female slaves in the USA.

 

[KRN]

This custom arose not coz there were Ilichavayan Nair husbands. The custom started during the Chera Chola war when Nairs were out fighting an unequal war. The ladies chose Nambudiris to maintain the family. Later Nairs themselves were killing each other in honor fights for local chieftains for centuries. I am not discussing the pros and cons of it.

 

[renuka]

This custom arose not coz there were Ilichavayan Nair husbands. The custom started during the Chera Chola war when Nairs were out fighting an unequal war. The ladies chose Nambudiris to maintain the family. Later Nairs themselves were killing each other in honor fights for local chieftains for centuries. I am not discussing the pros and cons of it.

May be polyandry was a way of life even before Namboos came from Badrinath(as they claim)....becos other states in India too have seen husbands go for war but no wife got "Purushan Mathiri" guys to stand in and look after them.

I have a feeling may be Polyandry was already in full swing and the Namboos just joined the party!LOL

 

[prasad1]

dear prasad sir,

by 'attitude' do you mean 'finding comfort in our conservatism'?

please clarify.

I fully agree with your post. Like you said:

think we need to introspect. many of us are still living in some sort of shell. we find comfort in it.

 

[sangom]

The "Sambandham" did not really involve nair families in general. The Namboodiris had a custom that only the eldest son could marry a kanyaka from a Nambudiri family. The rest of the male issues were prohibited from marrying or keeping any kind of contact with even their own sisters. The custom used to be that the younger male issues were called "Apfan Namboodiris" (अप्फन्) and after 'samaavartanam' an apfan Nambudiri had no access to the female quarters of their own native "illam" and except for their mother and grandmother, these apfan Nambudiris had to talk to even their blood sisters, athais, athai pATTies, etc. by turning their face away from them and standing a certain distance away.

Because of the erudition, intellect, the higher social status as also the materially rich status of most Nambudiri illams, the royal families of the many petty principalities of this region, who followed the Marumakkatthaayam system of inheritance, considered it a status symbol to have "Sambandham" of learned and rich Nambudiris with the womenfolk in their royal houses. Slowly this custom was adopted by the aristocratic nair families (FYI, even under the label 'Nair' there were hundreds of sub-divisions stretching down to 'viLakkitthala nAyar' (barber)) and the Sambandham privilege was not for any nair.

Most of the so-called royal households in old Kerala, including the Travancore rajas are considered as "Sudras" and not as Kshatriyas.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

May be polyandry was a way of life even before Namboos came from Badrinath(as they claim)....becos other states in India too have seen husbands go for war but no wife got "Purushan Mathiri" guys to stand in and look after them.

I have a feeling may be Polyandry was already in full swing and the Namboos just joined the party!LOL

Yes. You are correct.

It is very likely Polyandry was practiced by nairs before namboodhiris entered kerala region. There were, in general, two systems in Vogue - the patrilineal and matrilineal systems. The communities that followed matrilineal system had no problems with polyandry although this a strict no-no in patrilineal systems. In a society dominated by patrilineal communities, groups following matrilineal customs are accorded only a lowly status - hence the shudra status of nairs.

Now one husband one wife is the norm in all communities.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Shri Krish44 - The Brahmin hatred is high in TN for a few reasons. Firstly, the movement was not attempted to be negatived in the bud. Brahmins were meek observers though they were never anti-Brahmins. They were stunned and frightened too as if they were culprits. No body gave a lie to the sustained propaganda. Independence gave freedom to talk with reason or with absolutely no reason. A decade later power with glamour was within the grasp. Reason replaced intoxicating propaganda. In this period Shri Rajaji was a great contributor to anti-Brahmin feelings. He helped MK to win Thanjavur seat out of expediency. He won but neither trusted each other. Now the whole thing has grown into a sort of Banyan tree. Ecology and Environment will not allow to fell the tree. Outside TN people think the South Indians usurped their position. They are now beginning to realize this fallacy. We did not usurp but they did not come forward to take available positions. It is the same story in TN. There are thousand things to prove that a Brahmin is a Brahmin and not a anti-human. But they have already cut their ears to spite us fully. The time is not far off when they will realize the truth and squirm in their bed or in the grave. If that is not going to happen, I think "advaitam" will soon reign supreme. Whichever way it is good.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

I fully agree with your post. Like you said:

dear prasad sir,

i am also one with this attitude. but my question (rather apprehension) is, could we remain in this 'comfort zone' for long? would this 'comfort zone' exist for long? would any change be forced on us by circumstances? if 'yes' how shall we overcome the challenge?

or, should 'brahminism' itself be re-defined to minimize ic/ir marriages?

 

[sarang]

Inter varna and inter jati marriages were always there all through the ages. Sanatana dharma has handled this in the past and will handle it in future. The grouping of people depending on the size and number spawned consolidation or new groups. That is why it is not profitable to investigate the origin of specific jatis.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Well said. I think it is in-built racism in Indians.

Marrying a Caucasian is considered "marrying up". Marrying a NB is considered "marrying down". Unless they have unbelievable fair skin.

I have not said the above. Why are you bringing somebody's statement here? I am against IC/IR marriages if the parents of the concerned are against it. What is the point in embarrassing and inconveniencing the parents?

 

[biswa]

When did I say that you said it? Please look carefully at which post I have quoted:

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/sociology/20164-intercaste-marriages-reasons-15.html#post273007

 

[SANDHYAV]

In this forum of Q an A, You either respond or just leave ( the thread ). But u may come back to it and be that Prison warden or Prison gate keeper. In your mind u do here a gong, that of the church bell or the clock of the Big Ben. When you try to respond to the title INTERCASTE MARRIAGE, u are already in the inhibition mode, what are they talking? Are they taking on that B NB marriage, or r they extrapolating that subsect of Iyengar marriage to INTER-SOCIETY marriage?

Better to respond, coz ONE word in your response will either provoke or soothe your next respnder..