Who is brahmanan

[Jaykay767]

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Ashwin - Agree, Nara would not dare to even speak in those states. He can only insult/taunt the hapless brahmanas in this forum & endlessly keep questioning our philosophy without contributing anything positive to the discussion !! Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear JK,

RR ji did not have any problems with me and Nara ji at all..she replied our questions and also asked me a question to which I replied.

No one is finding fault with RR Ji here yaar..dont you guys get it?

OMG I feel now everything is blown out of proportion and context.

I rest my case and totally give up.

Hi Renuka,

I am not upset or finding fault with you. I only said, between 2 friends, they can say anything as long as they both are absolutely okay with it.

But in general I agree with your comments are correct – not to prefix others with our surnames.

However, Nara was deliberately insulting the Brahmins by saying RR’s father did not accord basic dignity to Wahab knowing very well RR made an innocent comment & not a supremacist statement. Thats why there is so much reaction to this. So it is not about RR & whether she is okay or not. Nara is deliberately insulting the brahmins on this forum by saying we are unconsciously used to our superiority !!

Cheers,

 

[sangom]

Dear Zebra ji,

I dont know why..but I feel Nara ji is being misunderstood here.

The fact remains is if we try to give a caste pseudonym to anyone else who is not of our caste becos we feel he or she displays favorable qualities that only goes to show that we did not feel his/her caste is capable of having such an individual.

I think that was what Nara ji was trying to convey...wonder why no one is reading his post like how I am reading.

Now let me put a question like this..would it be a compliment to an Upper caste Hindu if a Dalit would give the upper caste a Dalit tag?? Wont all hell break loose? Even the upper caste that does not practice his Svadharma would get real mad I am pretty sure.

In this no world one needs compliments or insults..just mutual respect would do.

Best example was when Mandela died..many Indians were calling him the Gandhi of South Africa..tell me was that fair? Mandela did not have to be Gandhi to be acknowledged..he was great in his own right.

I am reminded of one rather old, illiterate "lady" living in our next agrahaaram, who eked out her living by making appalams (and, incidentally, selling them at Rupee one per 'keTTu' of 100 pieces) whom I knew in my boyhood days. Whenever she used to be told about some other place or thing or temple, celebration etc., she invariably used to say, நம்டூர் சிவன்கோவில் மாதிரி, இல்லயா? நம்டூர் உத்சவம் போல இல்லையா? நம்டூர் கொட்டாரம் மாதிரி இருக்கும் இல்லியா? and so on. People used to reply in the affirmative or try to state that the item referred to by them was so many times bigger, larger, costlier, etc., etc.

<removed>

I have edited out and replaced the word in red. Please be aware of the sensitiveness of others. You should know better. Continued violation and posting of "what comes to mind" type messages without taking into account the emotions/feelings of others does not augur well for a person of your stature... Consider this as a warning. Such messages in future will be completely removed and/or your account will be suspended without notice. - Praveen

 

[prasad1]

If some one dear and close says "you are americanised" in your thinking, or accent or dressing, Should I take it as an insult or compliment? It depends on my realationship with that person and also with my understanding of the words spoken.

Let us say you impress me with your Sanskrit, and I complement you with the words "aap to sanskrit ke pandit ho", you might misinterpret it, that I am saying that you are Brahmin of Sanskrit.

Expressions taken out of context can be misinterpreted. Two friends can exchange banter and get away with it, but the same banter between adversaries can lead to violence.

A black person may call another black person as "nigger", but it is not right for any other person to call a black person nigger.

A word taken on a particular meaning depending on the relation between the two individual at that time.

 

[ashwin_ash]

These churlish and childish arguments remind me of a friend's father who used to say "the white man thinks he is superior because he IS superior. And that's why many of us in this forum choose to make peace with the white man, including Nara??

 

[A SUNDARARAMAN]

I request the enlightened members of this group their learned opinion on 'cadaver donation' - donating the dead body for medical purposes to Medical institutions/Hospitals for organ harvest to help other ailing patients or for medical education purposes.

Is this cadaver donation banned for brahmins? If so which Veda or Sastra mentions about this?

I will be very thankful for an objective response from the members.

thanks and regards

A. Sundararaman

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi ji,
You guys are keeping past issues in mind with Nara ji when reading his posts.
Its not tendencies to find fault etc its just talking about how we tend to view things by always comparing others with ourselves and not giving anyone their due credit.

To a certain extent past issues will remain in the mind playing a role. But that does not preclude a look at and evaluation of a new post without bias. Aren't we capable of that? We are not kids. I looked at Nara's post without bias and made those comments. Period. Please point out what is wrong in what I said.

RR ji might have just written a comment innocently as you rightly said but I do not see any harm in Nara ji pointing out to something he did not agree with.

She did write it without the meaning and interpretative twist given to it by Mr Nara and you. There is no gainsaying that. Nara did not agree with her innocence or was not able to appreciate that because he had a loaded mind. That is the point I am trying to point out.

RR jis understood the post and also my post to her thats why she asked me about me being upset with a muslim marriage in my family to which I answered her and she understood my stance. We are just seeking answers here..no one is starting a caste war.

RR being a nice lady by nature did not want a raging controversy. So she is trying to cool down the situation with her maturity. That does not take away the severity of the criticism originally leveled. Not starting a caste war is not a concession. Yes we are seeking answers here and that includes the biased outburst.

Ok Vaagmi ji..let me ask you point blank..I dont like to start caste wars.. why should anyone be given a caste pseudonym to start with and expect that person to take it as a compliment? Why cant we just acknowledge the other person without giving him a new caste tag?
Would you mind if someone called you for example Vaagmi Iyer when you are an Iyengar??
Even a Vadakalai wont tolerate being called a Thenkalai..need I say more?

Dear Renuka, castes do exist whether we like it or not. There is no use wishing them away. And people use these caste pseudonyms in an offensive as well as harmless manner. Thus when my friend's (he is a thevar) wife told her son the other day எலே, பரிட்சைய நல்லா எழுதுல. எதாச்சும் தெரியலன்னா அந்த அய்யரு வூட்டு பையங்கிட்ட கேட்டுக்க. வருசத்த கோட்ட உட்டுடாத. (for your benefit the approximate transalation will be Hey, write the exam. well. If you do not know anything ask that ayyaru boy. Dont waste the year.) she neither meant the Ayyaru voottu paiyan as a compliment of that boy nor was she trying to tell her son that he is an idiot compared to that ayyaruvoottu boy. It was a very practical, down to earth, free from any intellectual load/victimhood grievances, innocent statement of a rustic woman to her son. She understood what she meant and her son understood that very well too and perhaps that is what is important. Similarly (I read this in a blog entry referred to by Kunjuppu some time back) when a vanniyar casteist used some dirty epithets towards a sanitary worker in a village it too was a pseudonym but an offensive one because the intention was offensive. Now you can reflect on this and come to your own conclusions.

I just do not care whether I am called vaagmi Iyer, vaagmi Iyengar Tenkalai or Vaagmi Iyengar vadakalai or vaagmi thevar (till last year I had a bushy mush too) or vaagmi nadar. My respect to myself is what I give myself internally. It does not come from outside-not even from my dependents. I say all this honestly. Thanks.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Ashwin,

post #92:

Who is a Brahmin anyway? Recent converts to Iyengarism like DA Joseph?

Wherefrom did you get this Iyengarism? Perhaps you mean vaishnavism. Vaishnavism belongs to iyengars and many others like Naidus, Naickers, Gounders, Rajas Gomutti Chetties and Yadavas. DA Joseph might have converted to Vaishnavism.

 

[Vaagmi]

I request the enlightened members of this group their learned opinion on 'cadaver donation' - donating the dead body for medical purposes to Medical institutions/Hospitals for organ harvest to help other ailing patients or for medical education purposes.

Is this cadaver donation banned for brahmins? If so which Veda or Sastra mentions about this?

I will be very thankful for an objective response from the members.

thanks and regards

A. Sundararaman

Dear AS Raman,

This is a topic not related to the subject under discussion here. I do not know why you posted it here. The answer to your question will be this:

Cadaver donation is not accepted by sastras. It is a principle derived from other rules of sastra and is not a direct rule/comment in sastras perhaps because cadaver donation was not in existence in those times. Sastras consider the burning of a human body after death as a yajna. A brahmin is supposed to do everything as a yajna as long as he lives and finally offer his body in a yajna too. The children of the dead person burns the body in a sort of yajna using the body itself as havis. If you offer it to any other purposes, you are denying the children a chance to perform that yajna.

Accepting sastra or rejecting it is your take.

 

[Nara]

Now I feel sad for dragging the nice friendship of my dad with Wahab Ji in this thread!

Dear Mrs. RR, I also feel very sad that from a small கிணறு such a big பூதம் has risen. For that, I apologize to you, to your sister, to the memory of your dad and Wahab ji and to the noble friendship they had.

But I don't apologize to the idiot brigade, I view their comments with the utter contempt they deserve.

I also wish to thank Renuka for trying to contextualize my post, she failed not because of lack of trying, but to make sense to the idiot brigade is a sisyphean task.

This thread started with the same old canard that has been repeated endlessly. There are a few, like Brahmanyan, who make the same argument, not in admiration (I feel), but to point out that by such definition nobody is a Brahmin. Even though I respect the intent behind such a view, I think the basis that guna determines varna is fundamentally flawed -- read Babashaeb Ambedkar's thorough debunking of this idea in Annihilation of Caste.

I ask reasonable people to look at my post in this context. I have no doubt that Mrs. RR's dad had only noble thoughts when addressing Wahab ji the way he did. But the fact remains, the characteristics he saw in Wahabji made him a good person, not an Iyer, in the same way Mrs. RR's dad's humanity would make him a good person, not a Muslim.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mrs. RR, I also feel very sad that from a small கிணறு such a big பூதம் has risen. For that, I apologize to you, to your sister, to the memory of your dad and Wahab ji and to the noble friendship they had.

But I don't apologize to the idiot brigade, I view their comments with the utter contempt they deserve.

I also wish to thank Renuka for trying to contextualize my post, she failed not because of lack of trying, but to make sense to the idiot brigade is a sisyphean task.

This thread started with the same old canard that has been repeated endlessly. There are a few, like Brahmanyan, who make the same argument, not in admiration (I feel), but to point out that by such definition nobody is a Brahmin. Even though I respect the intent behind such a view, I think the basis that guna determines varna is fundamentally flawed -- read Babashaeb Ambedkar's thorough debunking of this idea in Annihilation of Caste.

I ask reasonable people to look at my post in this context. I have no doubt that Mrs. RR's dad had only noble thoughts when addressing Wahab ji the way he did. But the fact remains, the characteristics he saw in Wahabji made him a good person, not an Iyer, in the same way Mrs. RR's dad's humanity would make him a good person, not a Muslim.

We are all keenly aware that idiots do not apologise because they can only view comments with utter contempt. LOL.

 

[Jaykay767]

Weare all keenly aware that idiots do not apologise because they can only viewcomments with utter contempt. LOL.

Hi Vaagmi,

Well said. Also this moron can never be taught much less expectedto apologize for his idiotic comments!!

Cheers,

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Ashwin,

post #92:



Wherefrom did you get this Iyengarism? Perhaps you mean vaishnavism. Vaishnavism belongs to iyengars and many others like Naidus, Naickers, Gounders, Rajas Gomutti Chetties and Yadavas. DA Joseph might have converted to Vaishnavism.

Dear Vaagmi,

Kindly see DA Joseph's website, he has indeed become Iyengar. And he has branded himself on both shoulders acc. his own admission.

 

[Vaagmi]

Who is a brahmin?

1. The first requirement is that he/she should be born to brahmin parents. Generations/centuries of cultural impact on genes-that micro script written into every being-in a way as a feedback continuously used to improve the stock (those who know electronics will understand a familiar concept used there-a servo motor is a motor which takes the signal generated by a process as a feedback to control the process itself).

2. To this basic structure/template when a satvic behavior is added that completes the requirement.

So a brahmin is one who fulfills both these requirements. When one is absent he is not a complete brahmin. He just stays a infrastructure without the content.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi,

Kindly see DA Joseph's website, he has indeed become Iyengar. And he has branded himself on both shoulders acc. his own admission.

Dear Ashwin,

That is your understanding. If I say he has become a vaishnavite Naidu or vaishnavite Reddiar, can you disprove it unless Joseph himself comes to your help and confirms that he considers himself an iyengar? Branding on shoulders is common to all vaishnavites-iyengars, naidus, naickers, reddys, yadavas, gounders, rajas etc..,

 

[ashwin_ash]

Who is a brahmin?

1. The first requirement is that he/she should be born to brahmin parents. Generations/centuries of cultural impact on genes-that micro script written into every being-in a way as a feedback continuously used to improve the stock (those who know electronics will understand a familiar concept used there-a servo motor is a motor which takes the signal generated by a process itself as a feedback to control the process itself).

2. To this basic structure/template when a satvic behavior is added that completes the requirement.

So a brahmin is one who fulfills both these requirements. When one is absent he is not a complete brahmin. He just stays a infrastructure without the content.

Dear Vaagmi,

My ancestors were from somewhere in kerala, people in my family even used to refer to Brahmins as p@....@ [email protected]. They used to enjoy their smokes from a tin. Alcohol was never an issue, the T Nagar social club was where they used to have their rummy sessions. They were active participants in the anti-Hindi agitations. And there were some who used to sport the 'thiruneer' to remind themselves of the impermanence of life, and never even knew about festivals such as rama navami et al.

As for me, I've been there, done that (in several countries and continents). Do my actions exclude me from the Brahmin cabal? My relatives have lost their 'caste' by virtue of being citizens of many countries. My family has Caucasian, black, and everything in between. Why do people harp on caste when a thing as simple as a passport can help one shed theirs?

 

[sangom]

Dear Mrs. RR, I also feel very sad that from a small கிணறு such a big பூதம் has risen. For that, I apologize to you, to your sister, to the memory of your dad and Wahab ji and to the noble friendship they had.

But I don't apologize to the idiot brigade, I view their comments with the utter contempt they deserve.

I also wish to thank Renuka for trying to contextualize my post, she failed not because of lack of trying, but to make sense to the idiot brigade is a sisyphean task.

This thread started with the same old canard that has been repeated endlessly. There are a few, like Brahmanyan, who make the same argument, not in admiration (I feel), but to point out that by such definition nobody is a Brahmin. Even though I respect the intent behind such a view, I think the basis that guna determines varna is fundamentally flawed -- read Babashaeb Ambedkar's thorough debunking of this idea in Annihilation of Caste.

I ask reasonable people to look at my post in this context. I have no doubt that Mrs. RR's dad had only noble thoughts when addressing Wahab ji the way he did. But the fact remains, the characteristics he saw in Wahabji made him a good person, not an Iyer, in the same way Mrs. RR's dad's humanity would make him a good person, not a Muslim.

Nobody can deny that all hindu scriptures eulogize the group called "brAhmaNa", call it caste, call it Varna by birth or call it Varna by guNas. Hence, there was definitely a pride of being (born) brahmanas themselves among our older generations of tabras. Perhaps the epithet "Wahab Iyer" was condescendingly allotted to a mLEccHa by a brahmana by birth. That incident was brought now before this Forum because it was felt (most possibly) that such an anecdote would earn the usual appreciations, adulations, etc. But your query regarding that incident reeking of brahmin superiority did misfire and become a very big bhootam, of course.

My question now is, why did your dislike for brahmin superiority notions overrun even the usual appreciation, adulation given to the person who introduced 'wahab iyer' to the forum?

I get the feeling that this 'wahab iyer' will go the same way as the bigriver, LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi,

My ancestors were from somewhere in kerala, people in my family even used to refer to Brahmins as p@....@ [email protected]. They used to enjoy their smokes from a tin. Alcohol was never an issue, the T Nagar social club was where they used to have their rummy sessions. They were active participants in the anti-Hindi agitations. And there were some who used to sport the 'thiruneer' to remind themselves of the impermanence of life, and never even knew about festivals such as rama navami et al.

As for me, I've been there, done that (in several countries and continents). Do my actions exclude me from the Brahmin cabal? My relatives have lost their 'caste' by virtue of being citizens of many countries. My family has Caucasian, black, and everything in between. Why do people harp on caste when a thing as simple as a passport can help one shed theirs?

Your post is not clear on some points. Yet I make an attempt to reply. If you find me out of context please excuse me.

1. Are you brahmin? Here I am using the term in the popular sense of the term.

2. Suppose you are an individual(forget caste here for a moment) who is born into a rich family. You have helluva lot of money and wealth to squander away. You do squander it in all possible ways-like eating exotic food, idling, drinking and womanising etc., You have no belief in God or religion either. In short it is a very licentious life that you lived and squandered away all you had. Now with all that you also lost your right to ask why you should or should not be called a rich man. It was your conscious choice. You decided to do all that. Now my question to you is why do you bother whether you are a rich man or a poor man? The world will call you a rich man if that person still believes you have some thing to spend. They will call you poor if they think you are good for nothing for them.

3. Licentious living style is a choice. Brahmins and non-brahmins have that choice. They make it consciously. They may even object to the term licentious used by me here. Which is the standard with which you compare a life style? If it is satvik then you have deviated from it. So you have only the basic infra structure on which you could have constructed a beauty. But you consciously chose to build a monster there. So why bother to call yourself a brahmin? Any way it does not give you any value because your value system does not recognize those values. Dont you think so? Please live your life as you want. God has given you that freedom. Only you do not perhaps know what you have wasted or lost. But does it really matter for you to know?

4. A passport entitles you to entry into a country and declares you a citizen of a country. It is just an entry ticket and nothing more. With caste there is a paradigm shift in reckoning. Please perceive. Thanks.

 

[Nara]

..... But your query regarding that incident reeking of brahmin superiority did misfire and become a very big bhootam, of course.

I don't know what you mean by misfire, it is true the <removed> brigade found an opportunity and took it, but this is not the first time they have done this, neither is this going to be the last time. However loud the croaking of the frogs may be, the point I made is a valid one and there is no misfire from my side.

My question now is, why did your dislike for brahmin superiority notions overrun even the usual appreciation, adulation given to the person who introduced 'wahab iyer' to the forum?

Again, I am left puzzled. I do reject the notion of brahmin superiority, but it has nothing to do with "likes" and "dislikes", I dislike புடலங்காய், but that is a reflection of my taste, nothing inherently wrong with that vegetable. However, the notion of brahmin superiority is inherently a pernicious one, whether I or others like it or dislike it.

Next, you say I let the dislike overrun!! Please Sangom, there is no "dislike" there for it to overrun. I was just making an observation, a very valid one IMO.

And then you conclude "usual appreciation, adulation given". What "usual appreciation, adulation given" are you talking about? It looks like you are the one letting your imagination overrun.

Dear Sangom, I usually try my best to keep personalities out of my posts, I wrote what I wrote free of any consideration you are trying to attribute to me.

 

[Jaykay767]

Breaking news –

Just heard that there is a <edited> who is valiantly fighting for reserving seats for pipe only for special category people - oops sorry meant pope after he suddenly developed crumbs of respect - LOL !!

And he is lobbying with the reservation president to ensure severe restrictions on all internet forums worldwide & many more unspecified actions - aimed at all Brahmanas !!

He wants to be known as the Great Professional Reserva-nator - Destroyer of Merit & Competence, & enslaver of all hapless Brahmanas -LOL !!!!!

And in continuing the great tradition of reservation, he is pitching for the Bogus PiJINgi-dal for the next president!!

Dunce-la, Dingi-la, Dungi-la, Dummy-la is his motto !!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[prasad1]

1. brother
a person whom you are related to. sometimes a role model. sometimes an ass. sometimes a friend. a person who you are stuck being related to until the day you die through good or bad.2. brother
what hulk hogan usually says after a sentence

3. Brother
A guy who is closely related to you, who pisses you off, be it older or younger.
4. brother
n. Comrade. Companion. Friend. Typically used by and to individuals of african american heritage.5. Brother
An annoyiong little #### that never seems to go away and kind of smells funny.
6. brother
a sibling of the male sex that drives the rest of your family insane by painting the walls with nailpolish or lipstick. 7. Brother
To me, a brother is someone who is violent, bad tempered, and unintelligent.

Urban Dictionary: brother

Mr. Nara, You know when you address people as brother, they do not know which brother you mean, and get upset with you.

Similarly you always interpret the word "brahmin" with disdain, and call people idiots and other choise words, they get offended.
Majority of the people in this site are born in a Brahmin family (some exception). You should not insult their parentage, they had no control on it. It is just like being born in USA or India.

I know we see things differently, and I am sure you will call me all sorts of name, but I expect nothing less from you.

You may need to stop cuing in to that word "Brahmin". That is my sincere advice.

 

[krish44]

Dear Mrs. RR, I also feel very sad that from a small கிணறு such a big பூதம் has risen. For that, I apologize to you, to your sister, to the memory of your dad and Wahab ji and to the noble friendship they had.

But I don't apologize to the idiot brigade, I view their comments with the utter contempt they deserve.

I also wish to thank Renuka for trying to contextualize my post, she failed not because of lack of trying, but to make sense to the idiot brigade is a sisyphean task.

This thread started with the same old canard that has been repeated endlessly. There are a few, like Brahmanyan, who make the same argument, not in admiration (I feel), but to point out that by such definition nobody is a Brahmin. Even though I respect the intent behind such a view, I think the basis that guna determines varna is fundamentally flawed -- read Babashaeb Ambedkar's thorough debunking of this idea in Annihilation of Caste.

I ask reasonable people to look at my post in this context. I have no doubt that Mrs. RR's dad had only noble thoughts when addressing Wahab ji the way he did. But the fact remains, the characteristics he saw in Wahabji made him a good person, not an Iyer, in the same way Mrs. RR's dad's humanity would make him a good person, not a Muslim.

Apologise to RRji alone . Great concession from our new age guruji. Praveen can be requested to collect some members who can become followers of guru maharaj and protect him from brahmin community.hindu religion puts up with all kinds of odd balls. we do not lynch them. The attitude is one of benign neglect. New age gurus can propound what they want in US ,find some drop outs from western civilisation as followers.If they commercialise a little bit they can end up as multimillionaires. This trend started with the beatles guru Mahesh yogi. Now we have Ravishanker,marxist guru Agnivesh,yoga guru Ramdev and why not an Atheist guru

 

[renuka]

I ask reasonable people to look at my post in this context. I have no doubt that Mrs. RR's dad had only noble thoughts when addressing Wahab ji the way he did. But the fact remains, the characteristics he saw in Wahabji made him a good person, not an Iyer, in the same way Mrs. RR's dad's humanity would make him a good person, not a Muslim.

Dear All in Forum,

What is so difficult to understand this fact??

 

[Nara]

It is probably too much of an ask, but hope springs eternal, folks take a look at another idiot brigade, just that the race and religion are different...., they all sound alike irrespective of the country of origin

War on Christmas - S#@t's Getting Weird Edition - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 12/12/13 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

 

[krish44]

Dear All in Forum,

What is so difficult to understand this fact??

After attacking RRji foolishly,he cannot expect others to be reasonable with him. If after such an act which he accepts as incorrect.he apologises selectively to RRji and calling others idiots what message he is sending. In most issues he takes up it is either his way or no way. AS I said elsewhere he could only be an Atheist guru some odd balls can put up with