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Enge Brahmanan Economically and Socially?

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sangom

Well-known member
Revathi,

I agree with you, A real instance I wish to quote here.

One of my distant cousins married a girl from Chennai. He got his M. Sc. (Physics) from Madura College, Madurai and after working in Indian Telephone Industries, Bangalore for some time, he went to USA, did his Ph. D. there and got some good job there. Then his marriage took place in Chennai.

But very soon after the marriage, his wife divorced him on these grounds:

1. He was a 'Paththaam Pasali' and still lives in the past, because he was doing 'Sandhya Vandanam' even after
marriage.

2. He could not mix with the local community very freely in many parties. He continued to be an Indian at heart and
behaviour. Thus he was clealy a misfit in US.

3. He had very conservative ideas (read as traditional views) about life.

4. He did not show much interest in earning quick money, as many of her friends' husbands or his own colleagues were
doing. (Hence is a 'veli ulagam theriyaadha asadu').

5. He did not encourage and support her in her efforts to fulfill all her dreams in enjoying western type of life. On the
contrary, he was considered an obstacle in her 'progress'!

Though this is not a case representing the majority of TB population, such cases are becoming increasingly common.

What I want to say is, whether it is a male or a female, the meaning and purpose of living has undergone sea-change in the last 2 decades, due to bad influences of the US/European culture. By seeing only one side of family life abroad, people here form wrong impressions and want to change themselves to such perceived style and way of life.

This is really ruining many Indian lives and before the persons concerned realize, everything is over and there is nothing left to mend or reform. Then there is no point in repenting in the later part of one's life.

Another tragedy is even after seeing such failed cases, many of us dismiss such failures as rare cases and argue, they will not happen in everyone's life. We state minority samples can not influence one's important decisions in life.
Dear Shri Pannvalan,

I may be wrong, but I think Shri Kunjuppu calls such tambram boys only as "choplangis" and wants them to change so that they become likeable for girls; otherwise they will have to remain unmarried or face difficulties like the case you have cited.
 

vsmuthu

New member
I personally think Reservations in TN has not effect to Brahmins or other FC's as most have avoided the system and gone for Deemed Universities Shastra, Sri Venkateshwara etc., which take students purely on Merit (% in 12th) and their own entrance examination.. if you look at the list [http://www.education.nic.in/higheredu/list-deemeduniv.asp] TN has more deemed universities than any other state.. as most are run by FC community. This list is growing day by day... the reservations might have an impact on FC's wanting to study medicine as one pathetic thing is there aren't that many FC doctors these days...
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member
Revathi,

I agree with you, A real instance I wish to quote here.

One of my distant cousins married a girl from Chennai. He got his M. Sc. (Physics) from Madura College, Madurai and after working in Indian Telephone Industries, Bangalore for some time, he went to USA, did his Ph. D. there and got some good job there. Then his marriage took place in Chennai.

But very soon after the marriage, his wife divorced him on these grounds:

1. He was a 'Paththaam Pasali' and still lives in the past, because he was doing 'Sandhya Vandanam' even after
marriage.

2. He could not mix with the local community very freely in many parties. He continued to be an Indian at heart and
behaviour. Thus he was clealy a misfit in US.

3. He had very conservative ideas (read as traditional views) about life.

4. He did not show much interest in earning quick money, as many of her friends' husbands or his own colleagues were
doing. (Hence is a 'veli ulagam theriyaadha asadu').

5. He did not encourage and support her in her efforts to fulfill all her dreams in enjoying western type of life. On the
contrary, he was considered an obstacle in her 'progress'!

Though this is not a case representing the majority of TB population, such cases are becoming increasingly common.

What I want to say is, whether it is a male or a female, the meaning and purpose of living has undergone sea-change in the last 2 decades, due to bad influences of the US/European culture. By seeing only one side of family life abroad, people here form wrong impressions and want to change themselves to such perceived style and way of life.

This is really ruining many Indian lives and before the persons concerned realize, everything is over and there is nothing left to mend or reform. Then there is no point in repenting in the later part of one's life.

Another tragedy is even after seeing such failed cases, many of us dismiss such failures as rare cases and argue, they will not happen in everyone's life. We state minority samples can not influence one's important decisions in life.

Sri Pannvalan ji,

There is nothing in your post above that can be disputed in my opinion.....I have seen almost the same incident in my friend's life. The couple were been united with the efforts of parents and they are ok now. The incident was surprising to many of us for the reason that the couple were in love for more than a year and then got married with both of their parent's approval. We could come to know that the girl after marriage was influenced by her friends by way of instigating her with the message - "Unnodiya purushan onnai love panni kalyanam kattinaal podhumma?? Unnodia assaigal, ennangal matrum thiramaiyai purinjukittu nee sol padi nadunthaal vaazhkaiyil edhu vendrummaalum saadhikalaame". As a consequence to these kind of teachings, the girl found her loving guy as unworthy to be her husband.

The story that you have narrated above reminded me of my friend's life and is making me so confused now as whether to get married or remain single...lol...Just a light hear ted note to be humerus.

There are many such odd instances where boys and girls are marrying totally a different mindset person, without taking much efforts to get to know each other and ascertaining one self as whether they can accept their would be spouse's principles, life style and individuality. Perhaps the same efforts can not guarantee smooth and enjoyable family life unless the individuals concerned have good understanding and maturity to evaluate what is what and where one is wrong or right to influence the other or to be influenced.

It's mandatory for each guys and gals to get to know the other as much as possible, speaking their heart out before marriage. One self having his/her own persevered confidence to influence & win over their spouse in order to get their spouse on their own way is highly speculative.

Whether such cases are rare or common, the fact is, things are going wrong due to some sort of valid reasons. Either people tend to overlook to achieve something or lack skills to determine what exactly they want and what can be expected from their spouse.


 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Dear Shri Pannvalan,

I may be wrong, but I think Shri Kunjuppu calls such tambram boys only as "choplangis" and wants them to change so that they become likeable for girls; otherwise they will have to remain unmarried or face difficulties like the case you have cited.


Sri Sangom ji,

If not mistaken I would like to voice my opinion in what you could guess "Choplangis" means and guess that's how Sri Kunjuppu has referred to.


Going through Sri Kunjuppu's elaboration on his term - "Choplangi", I could simply make it out as Choplangis are those - "Veli Ulagam Theriyaadavargal"...(those who don't know the outside world and realities of life)

Guys changing themselves to be liked by girls can not necessarily be justified that all the girls are right and all the guys should have the mind set and wisdom to change themselves to fit into girl's expectations and life style preferences.

Each individual as a guy or gal have their own wishes, ideas and principals and no one can be stamped right or wrong. Guys & girls to get married successfully and be in happy married life, need to find their perfect match to the extent possible and live together for their own betterment with compromises and adjustments as and where required.

Please correct me if I am wrong...
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
Dear ravi,

Thank you for your post. Actually there are so many posts to ponder, that I do not even know where to begin. I think I will start with yours being the oldest, and maybe touch upon it, some of the points raised by others.

I have to start with my own marriage – an arranged one. Mom pointed this girl and told me that she would be good for me. I had no one else in mind, and agreed to it, as I wanted to settle down. My wife bloomed in Canada. Most of my tambram friends have had arranged marriages in the 70s and 80s, and I would say 90 percent ; of them are happily paired. All the women enjoy the freedom of opportunity that Canada offers.

Girls come to the west with certain expectations and what I have found, is that almost all men of my generation, had no problems in accommodating the expectations of their spouses once they landed here. In the early stages of the marriages, there was only thani kudithanam, which I feel, probably went a long way to adjusting and resolving relationships and disputes. It is much easier for two to tango than three or four or a whole family.

Which comes to my view on comments raised that ‘are always available for counselling at later stage if some differences crops up.’ Many members will disagree when I say this, but it is my experience, including mine own, that the biggest cause for quarrel between spouses is the in laws. Not only in India, but the world over.

For example, Revathi brought the example of vratham being enforced on a relative. Who will this girl appeal? To her fil? What happens if she appeals to her own parents? What if the girl’s father comes to the in laws to express his daughter’s desire not to practice vratham? How well will it go down? I think, the ‘elders’ are biased in favour of their own child and this being a ‘family’ affair, not much of outside interference will be tolerated.

Today’s marriages, I think, is much more complex than a newly wedded wife’s desire for a movie or sari, which with an egging from the parents, the son may be wont to comply. How can parents relate to issues like privacy? Privacy is an intimate process of learning each other – I do not wish to use the word, ‘getting to know’, but the ‘learning’ – both of the element, basically, even in ‘love marriage’ comes ignorant of the other.

it is difficult to mediate, when even the affected couple might have trouble expressing what they feel let alone articulate it. maybe they can spill out some syptoms, but i do not think, they any elder in either family can understand issues which dwell deep of the mind, hopes, longing, disappointments and above all love. those are meant to be for the couple alone, and till the gears mesh together, these be left for themselves to sort it out. or not.

The learning process, which is a life long one, starts the minute the thali is tied, and the foundations are laid the first few weeks, when the power balance sorted out for a life time. I do not think Pannvalan’s points, good & bad, ever take into consideration the laboratory that is the relationships and how to sort out the results of the first few experiments.

Marriage, atleast today, is not a public display of life a man and a woman. A young couple simply cannot afford to live in a household with parents whose priorities and interests, though well meaning, are referenced on protocols which may be valid about 50 years ago.

If my father could have been coherent, he would have listed Pannvalan’s list to me. But in my household things like marriages or problems in marriages were simply not spoken. Any such query would be silenced. There is no discussion of what post marriage lifestyle and values would be together as a couple. We can have a recipe for a tasty dish. I do not know if we can prescribe a set of rules for a marriage.

Humans are far too complex, far too devious and above all far too indulging in power play, to expect them to follow a set of rules, and if it breaks down, go to the ‘elder’ in the family to mediate. Most often, what they narrate to the ‘elder’ would be a symptom, which probably the old guy cannot even fathom, let alone go to the root cause. He is simply not qualified for it. Age, I think does not necessarily equate to wisdom.

At 60, when I see so many youngsters with a better handle on life than I do, my fear is that I will grow more into a fool, and everyone knows that there is no fool like an old fool. So I am amazed at the so many ‘I know best’ attitude and prescriptions to people who are in their twenties, from those of us, atleast two or more generations removed chronologically, and probably eons removed in thought process. We old fogies simply do not have it.

The instance of that girl coming to the U.S. and disappointed with the husband’s ‘traditional’ values – to me, did the groom did not talk to the girl before the marriage? Did he not tell her his values? Did she not have an occasion to express her desires? There is a disconnect here. Why is nobody talking about the failure to communicate, prior to marriage, either by the couple, or the families. Assuming that the groom is all in the right, does he not owe to himself and the girl, to express exactly what he is. What happened to everyone’s mouth.

Maybe it is time, that when we list each instance of a marriage failure due to a spoilt woman or ‘western’ values, to dig deeper and arrive at the root cause. I do not believe that any one is 100 percent ; wicked, and the other 100 percent good. I have always said that I consider everyone of us, lives with shades of grey, and when couples bound, if the shades blend, they are lucky, marriage, I believe, is a lottery. and there is two sides to every story. :)

I also believe, that if there is discord in the first 100 days, the marriage is doomed. For this is the period of honeymoon and excitement. Not a time for disappointments and bickerings. This is not rocket science, but common sense. No amount of ‘counselling’ from ‘elder’ will mend together a broken met and make it water tight again. Time to cut losses, and move on. Such is the reality of life in the 21st century.

I agree that folks feel strongly about above sentiments. I too started with firm belief that there was only one road to marriage and that is through horoscopes and community. Somewhere along the way, I found that there is no single rule for all. No matter whether marriage is arranged or ‘loved’, the young couple in their honeymoon period also walk on egg shells, and skirt by minefields of faux pas.

It is best that during this period they are left alone to sort out their own troubles. We should give the youth that much credit for their maturity. For after all, if we had been good parents, we would have brought them up to be sensible young men and women? Wouldn’t we?

had we been dictators to our children, they would not be able to think for themselves. had we taught them to think, we should be confident that our children can think for themselves and handling their own life. they have got to learn it. sooner or later. in my opinion, it better be sooner. :)

Thank you.

ps. sangom, one does not lose virility through exercise. just the opposite. unless you take certain steroids and such. a good healthy fit body provides more stamina for all sorts of activities including the ones in the bedroom :)
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
Dear Shri Pannvalan,

I may be wrong, but I think Shri Kunjuppu calls such tambram boys only as "choplangis" and wants them to change so that they become likeable for girls; otherwise they will have to remain unmarried or face difficulties like the case you have cited.

not correct. also the insinuations are not what i had in mind.

i don't think i have come across correctly at all in my post re choplangis. my apologies.

some other time i will try to explain again. thank you.
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
Kunjuppu,

You are right in saying that absence of exchange of ideas and thoughts before marriage leads to many problems after marriage. But let me say this.

1. Before marriage, both the boy and the girl get very short time to talk to each other. But this time is consumed in
'asadu vazhidhal', talking irrelevant things, looking at each other without talking anything, posing some questions on
one's professional life etc. Hardly there is any time to pour out one's heart here in its true sense.

2. After betrothal and till the marriage takes place, just as in the case of love affairs, both boy and girl concentrate their efforts on building a fortress of mirage around them, with a view to impress the other party.

3. In case of persons from well educated back-ground or sophisticated families, many inhibitions do not permit the boy
and the girl to have a free and fair exchange of ideas. So, they take things for granted.

4. Certain assumptions go wrong or belied in course of time. For instance, there is some social norm or behavioural
pattern attached to each profession and many a time, we take this as reflective of the person's true personal make
up. These kind of assumptions are the most dangerous ones.

5. Immediately after the marriage, time is spent on fun, love making and satisfying the other person's wants/desires
even if such wants are not congruent with the family customs and individual ideals. True problems crop up, after
this jolly period is over and the boy and the girl start discovering the other side of the partner, hitherto unknown to
each other.

6. After the honeymoon and the months following it, say 6 months period, persons find problems of adjustment which
affect their relationship and intimacy.

7. When family elders live far away totally disconnected or where the interference from them is too excessive, husband
and wife start behaving like two different individuals or extended part of their respective parents, as the case may
be.

8. One important lesson I learnt in my own life was "Whatever be the misunderstanding or quarrel or cause of
worry, the newly wedded couple shall not approach others in their family for resolution". If this advice is
not followed, it will only precipitate the matters further.
(seeking guidance and help on some common issues is not discouraged nevertheless).


9. The initial 6 months or 1 year period is the most crucial one. After this, no major problems will surface. So, if the
couple pass this period successfully, no force can sow the seed of disunity amongst them and the couple will remain
a successful pair throughout their life.

10. The couple shall not attempt to drag the other partner to their way of life forcibly.

11. Last but not the least, accommodating each other in many issues pays the highest dividend. Adamant behaviour
will only beget more trouble and take away the mental peace. No amount of psychiatric counselling will be of any
help, as long as both husband and wife stick to their viewpoints and blind reasoning. (Here accommodation does not
imply dilution or compromise of one's ideals/principles or life-goals).

All these points are purely between the husband and wife and others, howsoever close they are, have a very little role to play to bring ever-lasting happiness, peace and enduring success in the couple's life.
 
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sangom

Well-known member
Sri Sangom ji,

If not mistaken I would like to voice my opinion in what you could guess "Choplangis" means and guess that's how Sri Kunjuppu has referred to.


Going through Sri Kunjuppu's elaboration on his term - "Choplangi", I could simply make it out as Choplangis are those - "Veli Ulagam Theriyaadavargal"...(those who don't know the outside world and realities of life)


Dear Shri Ravi,

There will be no question of "being mistaken"; so pl. feel free to give your views.

In fact you will notice that Shri Pannvalan's post itself has this portion, "4. He did not show much interest in earning quick money, as many of her friends' husbands or his own colleagues were doing. (Hence is a 'veli ulagam theriyaadha asadu')."

That, besides the other shortcomings listed there, gave me the impression that the boy would fit the choplangi definition. But now that Shri Kunjuppu himself has said it is not so, let us await his further elucidation. I am glad that you and I have understood Kunjuppu's posts somewhat similarly.


Guys changing themselves to be liked by girls can not necessarily be justified that all the girls are right and all the guys should have the mind set and wisdom to change themselves to fit into girl's expectations and life style preferences.

Each individual as a guy or gal have their own wishes, ideas and principals and no one can be stamped right or wrong. Guys & girls to get married successfully and be in happy married life, need to find their perfect match to the extent possible and live together for their own betterment with compromises and adjustments as and where required.

Please correct me if I am wrong...
You have also expressed as under in another post:

"The story that you have narrated above reminded me of my friend's life and is making me so confused now as whether to get married or remain single...lol...Just a light hear ted note to be humerus."

From what I see about the young tambram couples at present, it appears that the principles stated by you, viz., "Guys & girls to get married successfully and be in happy married life, need to find their perfect match to the extent possible and live together for their own betterment with compromises and adjustments as and where required.", does not apply to the boy; he has to completely sacrifice his likes and dislikes, and his individuality and live like an appendage to the wife, if the marriage has to have a safe journey. Perhaps this due to the effects of the advertisements which Shri Pannvalan has neatly listed, as also the legal support which the girl can get.

As for your humorous comment, I have come across two very eligible bachelors who have decided against marriage because they feel they cannot erase their personality sufficiently to become an acceptable husband by today's standards. One of them added that it is not due to any misogyny. So, now you can take a decision in your own case :)
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
Sangom,

Why do you discourage or frighten our bachelor friend Ravi? Let him get married and let us heartily wish he gets a good and loving life-partner, so that his married life will be one of the success stories.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Sangom,

Why do you discourage or frighten our bachelor friend Ravi? Let him get married and let us heartily wish he gets a good and loving life-partner, so that his married life will be one of the success stories.
Sorry Shri Pannvalan ji,

I forgot that aspect. I request Shri Ravi to condone my indiscretion, pl. (Anyway, I do not think Shri Ravi is so naive as to plan his life based on what appears in a website:))
 
OP
OP
S

suresoo

Active member
Sangom sir,
If the Boy changes like you had stated, he also gets a Certificate from Girls side in addition to happily married life

From what I see about the young tambram couples at present, it appears that the principles stated by you, viz., "Guys & girls to get married successfully and be in happy married life, need to find their perfect match to the extent possible and live together for their own betterment with compromises and adjustments as and where required.", does not apply to the boy; he has to completely sacrifice his likes and dislikes, and his individuality and live like an appendage to the wife, if the marriage has to have a safe journey. Perhaps this due to the effects of the advertisements which Shri Pannvalan has neatly listed, as also the legal support which the girl can get.

"Penna Maharani Mathari Paathukarar Mappalai"
"ullamkaiyula vechu thaangararu"

thanks,
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
Humour apart, let us not forget that a girl upon her marriage makes more sacrifices and adjustments, than her husband.
 

Nara

Well-known member
....From what I see about the young tambram couples at present, it appears that the principles stated by you, viz., "Guys & girls to get married successfully and be in happy married life, need to find their perfect match to the extent possible and live together for their own betterment with compromises and adjustments as and where required.", does not apply to the boy; he has to completely sacrifice his likes and dislikes, and his individuality and live like an appendage to the wife, if the marriage has to have a safe journey. Perhaps this due to the effects of the advertisements which Shri Pannvalan has neatly listed, as also the legal support which the girl can get.

Dear Shri Sangom and others, Greetings!

I suppose there are girls who dream of finding a boy with the characteristics from Pannvalan's first list, but I feel she is not going to find one anytime soon. Really folks, have you ever come across a young man who passes even 5 of these traits? May be I am too stuck in my own utopia, but somehow I am unable to accept that young girls today are not smart enough to see through the shallowness of the traits from the first list.

The second list of Pannvalan is gender neutral, IMO. It is a good list for both young boys and young girls. However, this is also an impossible list for anyone to fulfill, and further, even if one meets all these high standards, would that be recognized as such by all concerned? It is all in the eyes of the beholder.

To some extent we all rely on our personal experiences to form opinions and judgments. Based on my personal experience I am very puzzled; how common place is it for young husbands to be no more than "appendage to the wife"? When I look around my family and friends, I see not a single case where the young husband is merely an appendage, but I can see at least three cases (i.e. about 1/3 of the cases) where the young wife is just an appendage. These are young couples. In two cases, the MIL is a constant interferer, putting down the girl and her family, constantly deriding how badly their parents had raised the girls -- I am an eye witness to this. The boys don't necessarily agree with their mothers -- they confided as such to me -- but dare not say anything.

I have also seen 4 or 5 marriages in which the young husbands and wives enjoy parity, neither is an appendage to the other. Perhaps one may see this parity itself as a case of "henpeckedness". I am reminded an old Tamil movie called Manal Kayiru, in which Manorama's husband is shown as a very loving husband who gets mocked as henpecked. But the character rejects such characterization.

It is probably true that there are over aggressive women who find their husbands inadequate. But then, the reverse also may occur with equal frequency. There are probably the same number of young husbands who look down upon the young wife for various reasons like not modern, not applying lip-stick, or whatever. Except for some extreme cases, these feelings get worked out over time, if only the elders give them some space and time.

Anyway, I fully endorse #8 of Pannvalan's list of advice to young couples:
"Whatever be the misunderstanding or quarrel or cause of worry, the newly wedded couple shall not approach others in their family for resolution". If this advice is not followed, it will only precipitate the matters further. (seeking guidance and help on some common issues is not discouraged nevertheless).
I hope young couples work things out and arrive at the right balance that works for them, whatever that balance may be. As well-wishers, IMO, our role must only be enablers of love between the young couple, and that too only when they seek our advice.

Cheers!
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
ravi,

Those friends of yours who desisted from trying out matrimony due to some bad advice, should be talked to. Personally, I think, we are all social creatures, and we are programmed to mate, be mated and have children. Children are the biggest gift for anyone, and in the context of a married household, the most beautiful thing to happen.

I do not know what made them reject marriage, but why don’t you take on the role of a chettiar and offer them the alternates of each life style, and step through the consequences of each decision.

There is no uniform formula for everyone, but we all have a certain common trait. Traditionally it starts off with jathagam, but to me that is just one way, and not the only or the right way. If you find ‘love’ you are a lucky guy. Love has many facets, I think, and over a period of time, moves on from infatuation to level headed evaluation of spending a lifetime with the opposite person.

We would be only human to have doubts, and we hope the courting period is the time to ascertain such, and make decisions one way or the other.

Take yourself: look at the amount of time you spend to prepare and get through exams. How much prep you do for job interviews. And… in just a previous post, we heard Pannvalan say, that for the most important job in our life, to fill us for the rest of our time on this earth, we go through the most perfunctory of investigation processes.

I cannot give you formulas or sets of rules, because to me, these do not grasp the essence of a relationship. Some people know they are for each other, soon after meeting. Others have doubts even after their marriage. But, I would imagine, if your gut says, that this girl and you would make a good couple, manage a household and build a happy home, that alone should be enough to plunge into the sea of samsaram.

In an arranged environment, I think, the couple should demand more time, than a coffee out in a restaurant. How much of a time, I cannot tell, but it should be sufficient, for each other to dispel doubts about the other. I think our society is increasingly moving away from ‘on the second decision’ based on ponn paarkkal alone, which was the norm during my time, and before that.

Approach any relationship, arranged or otherwise, with caution, eyes open, and always keep the back door open, before committing to the marriage ceremony. That should be caution enough.

Best of luck in your hunting :)
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Sangom,

Why do you discourage or frighten our bachelor friend Ravi? Let him get married and let us heartily wish he gets a good and loving life-partner, so that his married life will be one of the success stories.

Thank you so much Sri Pannvalan ji....
 
G

ganeshrev

Guest
Revathi,

I agree with you, A real instance I wish to quote here..
......

Yes Shri Pannvalan, this also is common, the reverse is also true.
(My colleague, a computer engineer - a Kerala Nair , was harassed by her husband - She was taken to a dentist on the week one of their stay in US and pulled 4 front teeth and replaced with artificial ones - telling they were big.To state the fact, her teeth were so good,that the dentists in Bangalore will call his juniors to show an example of well maintained teeth whenever she goes for a check up -Also she was harassed in so many ways that that I cannot say here- She is divorced now.In her case , her parents compelled her to marry him - he is Anna University BE , US educated, Fortune 100 Employee but she was reluctant and she obeyed her parents like any other Indian Naari)

I feel the parents today - they should educate the wards (girls/boys) on the reality of life.Bookish knowledge and academic and corporate achievements seem to have failed in this respect, IMHO

Namaskarams
Revathi
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Sorry Shri Pannvalan ji,

I forgot that aspect. I request Shri Ravi to condone my indiscretion, pl. (Anyway, I do not think Shri Ravi is so naive as to plan his life based on what appears in a website:))

Sri Sangom ji,

I am enjoying reading every one's post here and that of yours in the context referred above, I have nothing to condone. Yes you are absolutely right. I am not so naive to plan my life based on website stories. I myself had come to know many such real life stories in the circle surrounding me, that all I have witnessed.

If I and the girl feel each other deserving to be a spouse to each other, I will for sure go for a marriage... :).BUT if after marriage something gets troubled, I will for sure seek guidance from all the members of this Forum, if at all I find myself pondering - "AVA THAANAA IVA....ENNALAY MUDIYALA"...lolzzz...May be the girl would require the same on the same grounds...lol...

 
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ganeshrev

Guest

Smt. Revathi ji,

I really could not understand as how and why many of those guys could not even give a thought towards marrying the kind of girls that you have highlighted above? May be, I think, these are the guys who all are enticed by the vibrant appeal, highly confident, actively socializing, dare to do and few other special attributes of the ladies in their work place and social circle. And motivated by their set of friends to discard a homely girl labeling them as "ammami", "pattikaadu", "arai vekaadu", "asadu" etc..etc..
......



True Shri Ravi.We humans, particularly Indians, seem to be living for "nalu Peru" and afraid of nalu Peru Enna Solva.In this case, the nalu Peru seem to be the current friends.

Thanks
Revathi
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
ravi,

Those friends of yours who desisted from trying out matrimony due to some bad advice, should be talked to. Personally, I think, we are all social creatures, and we are programmed to mate, be mated and have children. Children are the biggest gift for anyone, and in the context of a married household, the most beautiful thing to happen.

I do not know what made them reject marriage, but why don’t you take on the role of a chettiar and offer them the alternates of each life style, and step through the consequences of each decision.

There is no uniform formula for everyone, but we all have a certain common trait. Traditionally it starts off with jathagam, but to me that is just one way, and not the only or the right way. If you find ‘love’ you are a lucky guy. Love has many facets, I think, and over a period of time, moves on from infatuation to level headed evaluation of spending a lifetime with the opposite person.

We would be only human to have doubts, and we hope the courting period is the time to ascertain such, and make decisions one way or the other.

Take yourself: look at the amount of time you spend to prepare and get through exams. How much prep you do for job interviews. And… in just a previous post, we heard Pannvalan say, that for the most important job in our life, to fill us for the rest of our time on this earth, we go through the most perfunctory of investigation processes.

I cannot give you formulas or sets of rules, because to me, these do not grasp the essence of a relationship. Some people know they are for each other, soon after meeting. Others have doubts even after their marriage. But, I would imagine, if your gut says, that this girl and you would make a good couple, manage a household and build a happy home, that alone should be enough to plunge into the sea of samsaram.

In an arranged environment, I think, the couple should demand more time, than a coffee out in a restaurant. How much of a time, I cannot tell, but it should be sufficient, for each other to dispel doubts about the other. I think our society is increasingly moving away from ‘on the second decision’ based on ponn paarkkal alone, which was the norm during my time, and before that.

Approach any relationship, arranged or otherwise, with caution, eyes open, and always keep the back door open, before committing to the marriage ceremony. That should be caution enough.

Best of luck in your hunting :)

Thank you very much for your suggestions/guidance/tips and best wishes, Sri Kunjuppu ji... :)
 

sangom

Well-known member
Yes Shri Pannvalan, this also is common, the reverse is also true.
(My colleague, a computer engineer - a Kerala Nair , was harassed by her husband - She was taken to a dentist on the week one of their stay in US and pulled 4 front teeth and replaced with artificial ones - telling they were big.To state the fact, her teeth were so good,that the dentists in Bangalore will call his juniors to show an example of well maintained teeth whenever she goes for a check up -Also she was harassed in so many ways that that I cannot say here- She is divorced now.In her case , her parents compelled her to marry him - he is Anna University BE , US educated, Fortune 100 Employee but she was reluctant and she obeyed her parents like any other Indian Naari)

I feel the parents today - they should educate the wards (girls/boys) on the reality of life.Bookish knowledge and academic and corporate achievements seem to have failed in this respect, IMHO

Namaskarams
Revathi
Smt. Revathi,

The male domination is very much there in almost all non-brahmin communities, both in Kerala and TN. Perhaps North India also, I do not know the present situation.

Among the Nairs of Kerala, side by side with the male domination, remarriages of divorced girls (with one or two children even) is not looked down upon. These customs are not late entrants. I think they are the changed forms of the original "marumakkattaayam" (matrilinear inheritance system). Under that system, the woman had choice of selecting and changing her mate as and when she wished without having to give any reason. The children were looked after by her parents and later by her brother/s. This has now incorporated the custom of parents selecting the boy but divorce is not a black mark for the girl at all. Hence there is a lot of difference between the tambrams and Nairs when it comes to such issues.
 
G

ganeshrev

Guest
Among the Nairs of Kerala, side by side with the male domination, remarriages of divorced girls (with one or two children even) is not looked down upon. These customs are not late entrants.

Yes , once her parents know of her state in US, they gave full support to her.

But her brother who is around 33 , is finding it difficult to get a girl because of the stigma (divorcee) attached to his sister!.He is in Dubai earning well.

Her parents have also initiated steps for her second marriage and till today they are unsuccessful.(Her Ex-husband in US re-married happily to an american)

Namaskarams
Revathi
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
Yes , once her parents know of her state in US, they gave full support to her.

But her brother who is around 33 , is finding it difficult to get a girl because of the stigma (divorcee) attached to his sister!.He is in Dubai earning well.

Her parents have also initiated steps for her second marriage and till today they are unsuccessful.(The boy is US married happily to an american)

Namaskarams
Revathi

i think the nairs are getting unfortunately into the male dominated bourgeois attitudes.

a very dear friend of us, a nair girl, about 34 years ago, a very young, with a baby daughter, lost her husband due to electrocution. within a couple of years, the parents found another nair youth, who was never married before, and who took care of the baby girl as his own. the girl is now married and has children of her own. in her new marriage she had a boy, who recently celebrated his own marriage.

we used to have a servant who used to say a long time ago, it was their custom that the boys' side came asking for the girls and wedding expenses were borne by them. but with increased education and upward mobility, the situation appeared to have reversed against the girls' favour.
 
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