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Cho's Enge Brahmanan serial - Does it project the brahmins cause?

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nachi naga

Well-known member
dear nara
Even our own greats from 1000 years ago felt divisions on the basis varna or jati is not a good thing, they are not god given identity, but a man made one as beneficial as Ahuti offered to ash.

in sanathana dharma,all that we perceive is god.all that is god.identity or identyless atheist or agnostics are also god,whom we call charavakhans.therefore they too have an identity.just as you have a moniker 'called' nara as an identity,which we term as god,its deivam manushya rupenam.charles dawkins has an identity in his name,which we term as god.my dog is god.my donkey is god.my monkey is god.my krishna is god my shiva is god my brahma is god.my hitler is god my butler is god.everything is god.as we are contained inside god as well as god is contained within us.the traits are classified brahmana kshatria vaishya shudra,assigning chores for such personality traits.those who are born with display a certain traits based on their gunam.which is acquired thru numerous births owing to karma.therefore you get a status like,president vice-president speaker...etc so on.
 

suraju06

Well-known member
Hi,
I am here to complete what I started yesterday.
//today's world, there is no space for manu and his racist, female hating thoughts. nobody is willing to serve under a regimen where there are destined to play the bottom fiddles, for the pleasure of some supposed god giving rights of certain groups of people. this is what i have found in the brahmins and brahminism.//

MCPs are there not only in the Brahmin community but in every community and every society. So your finding them in Brahmins is no wonder. But brahminism is something else. As a first step could you please define what is brahminism? My point is that every thing that is bad in the society and in the casteistic hierarchical system has been attributed to brahmins and people have a tendency to call it by the name brahminism. This is something akin to what Capra says about inflation. Cho's views about women is well known from the days of his dramas in the 70s. He was the one who said obliquely in a drama that Indira Gandhi, being a widow, was unfit to be the PM of the country.If you looked for anything better from Cho it would only mean that you are a die-hard optimist.
There is a school of thought which says Manu was a Kshatriya. I agree with you that there is no place for manu's outdated and unfair laws. I am also not for those who prescribe to throw the baby with the bathwater.
//they do not know how to discard a person by his name being rajagopalan or karuppan. on those rare occassions, if they do, it is only because someone has told them such//
Rajagopalan and Karuppan are only one of the tags among many other to identify a man. You never discard or accept someone by looking at just one tag. Hinduism never teaches you to do that.Brahmins never say that either.
Sangom//For your information, I am an old (70) brahmin and have respect for our heritage but am for such changes in our rituals, customs and beliefs, as may be necessary for us to lead a normal life peacefully in this world. Hope I have clarified my position//
Sangom sir, I respect your views.Rituals, customs and beliefs are undergoing changes with time. My point differs only when someone says we have to change our ways because some one wants it that way. That too when that some one demands here and now that too on his terms only, I try to engage him in a dialogue to make him aware of the opposite views. Changes are accepted only when they are convenient and comfortable to a person. But to imagine that it should be the same across the board for the community as a whole is a different cup of tea. Cheers.
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
suraju,

please read my note on rajaji again. i am a brahmin and am proud of our community for the stuff mentioned - hard work, good work ethics, simplicity, ambition, drive et al.

nobody needs to be ashamed of the above and those factos akin to above. in fact, the other communities emulate us and want to be like us in these respects.

next to the christians, we were the first to liberate and educate our women. we should not be proud of this. becuase it was a wrong that is righted. long overdue. this is not an achievement, but as a correction of millenium years of mistake.

so too is the caste feeling of superiority. let us not mince words there, as even the poonul ceremony is full of caste connotatations. you can be a good hindu without propating manu's varna theories. it is best manu is thrown in to the garbage heap of history asap.

that is all i am saying. let us differentiate the good and the bad. acknowledge the bad and get rid of it. simple as that eh!
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
suraju,

please read my note on rajaji again. i am a brahmin and am proud of our community for the stuff mentioned - hard work, good work ethics, simplicity, ambition, drive et al.

nobody needs to be ashamed of the above and those factos akin to above. in fact, the other communities emulate us and want to be like us in these respects.

Dear Kunjuppu,

I may be excused for this interjection. As all of us are aware, the brahmins kept the sole monopoly of religion and scriptures to themselves. The other three castes were not allowed the freedom to interpret the scriptures. (There are one or two exceptions to this of course.) This zealously coveted monopoly is what we now regard as our tradition and inheritance.

It is because of the hard work, good work ethics, simplicity, et al, of the other three castes, and most importantly their naivete in believing that the brahmin has a superiority by birth itself, plus their helplessness (till modern times) to revolt against the perceived superiority of brahmins (in my view this is the most appropriate meaning of the term "brahminism") that sustained our society. (Nandanar may be a solitary exception). If the farmers (many of which class was demoted from the vaisya to sudra category over the centuries) had been less hardworking even under below-subsistence levels, less simple, and had a fraction of the ambition and drive which you refer to, the brahmins would have faced acute starvation and decimation long ago. If there had been a level playing field for all perhaps the other castes would have excelled in the brahminic specialisation also. We have the example of one of the backward castes in Kerala some of whom have been traditionally sanskrit scholars, ayurvedic physicians, astrologers etc. Their grasp of Sanskrit was much superior to that of many of the barhmins who could only parrot mantras without understanding their meaning.

I therefore feel that we should not view the above qualities of good work ethics, hard work, and simplicity as something unique to brahmins. Incidentally drive and ambition usually do not go hand-in-hand with simplicity, I think.
 

Nara

Well-known member
.... My point differs only when someone says we have to change our ways because some one wants it that way.

Folks,

It seems Shri Raju has forgotten some of the previous exchanges we have had on this subject. Let me refresh the fading memories.

Here is one from me on a different thread:
In the meantime, let me give you a taste of Swami Periyavachchan Pillai's interpretation of தொழுமின் நீர்.
உங்களுடைய வித்யாவ்ருத்தங்களும், ஜன்ம உத்கர்ஷங்களும் மத ஹேதுவாகையன்றியே தம ஹேதுவென்றிருக்கும் நீங்கள் அவர்கள் காலிலே விழுங்கோள்.... நீங்கள் அவர்களை ஆராதியுங்கோள்...ஸ்வரூப ப்ராப்தமான நீச பாவமானது அவர்களுக்கு ஸ்வரூப ஸித்தம். உங்களுக்கு துர்மாநத்தாலே துஷ்கரம். அவர்களை தொழவே உங்கள் ஸம்ஸார பீஜமான துர்மானம் போம்.
மதம் = அடக்கமின்மை
தமம் = அடக்கம்
ஹேது = காரணம்
துர்மானம் = அஹங்கரம்
துஷ்கரம் = அரிது
And in a different thread, in response to Shri Raju's self congratulatory post about Brahmin greats, I asked a couple of questions, one of those two was:
How come the present day orthodox brahmin Sri Vasihnavas and Acharyas refuse to adopt even the narrow way in which commentators like Swami Sri Periyavachchan Pillai have interpreted Azhvar's revolutionary words? For more details of this look at this post.
Sri Raju's reply at that time February 14, 2010, was:
We will come to this latter.
Almost five months have gone by and I am still waiting. Yes, I am saying we have to change our ways, and nobody need to pay any attention to me. But is it not rank hypocrisy that SVs say they revere Azhvars as nothing but Nithyasoori avatharas and Acharyas as even more than Iswara (see கண்ணிணுண் சிறுத்தாம்பு), and yet don't care to change their ways to what the Azhvars and the Acharya's interpretation, not my misinterpretation but Acharya's interpretation?

For Sri Raju to talk about caste without the charge of hypocrisy he must answer this question to which he promised he will come "later".

Cheers!
 
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Nara

Well-known member
.....I therefore feel that we should not view the above qualities of good work ethics, hard work, and simplicity as something unique to brahmins. Incidentally drive and ambition usually do not go hand-in-hand with simplicity, I think.

Dear Shri sangom,

I am in full agreement with the above. I would even go further. Good work ethic, simplicity and hard work are qualities found more among the working NBs, like the carpenters, agricultural workers, blacksmiths, laundry workers, barbers, etc., where as, ambition and drive, gaming the system to their advantage are more common among the upper castes, particularly Brahmins.

Cheers!
 

RKB

Active member
Cho's serial is innovative in narrative. It is wrong to say that only Brahmins viewed the serial with interest. Almost all my clients discussed with me about the serial and appreciated the mission contained in that serial - 'about finding the root'. I personally felt that the serial has helped Brahmins to regain their self esteem that they lost it after Sankaracharya was arrested. But how is it from Jaya TV?

I think Cho has some political intentions behind this. Portraying Cho as a businessman is rubbish. Also the postings in this domain does not answer as to why this serial is a success with all Tamils?
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
I am a great admirer of Cho. Whatever he said has happened and is still happening. But, he is not a fore-teller.

His way of analyzing all subjects and putting forth his views articulately with clarity and conviction has always impressed me.

I differ with him on many of his views, but never fail to appreciate the cogent arguments he advances.

His way of satire is unique and not known to Indian journalism until he started Thuglak in 1971. I have been a regular reader of this magazine ever since it was started.
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
... Also the postings in this domain does not answer as to why this serial is a success with all Tamils?
Shri RKB,

I started this thread because some of my friends (TBs) said it was excellent while some others (TBs and local NBs) had doubts about the way brahmins were ultimately projected in the serial. Of course TBs will be happy to see a serial set completely in TB milieu and with the intermittent explanations by Cho citing various scriptures. But it is the discerning who have doubts.

For example, Cho said, on one occasion, that caste is not based on birth but according to one's nature; in the last but one episode or so, he said every one should do the "kulathozhil" and should not take up another (paradharma). Similar contradictions were there in regard to the status of women in Hindu society and many other points. In sum, the serial does not help in projecting the ordinary TB of today as a real brahmanan.

Our people are generally happy to hear some "kathhaapravachanam" and then go home satisfied that they had spent time in "punyakarma". They don't usually bother to do the three mistakes of "Sravanam, mananam and nididhyasanam". In one bhagavatapravachanam (nowadays, any one can do such pravachanam, it seems) a retired Govt. employee explained the meaning of "aapeena" and "peena" as 'one which is drunk'; therefore "peena vakshaa" in describing the gopis went to "aapeena vakshoruhaam" of Lalita Sahasranamam and he described the meaning by relating the incident of Umadevi giving breast milk to thirujnanasambandar! A beautiful confusion due to Hindi "peenaa"=to drink, I think. No one questioned but some at least appreciated the vast erudition of the 'discourser'!
 

suraju06

Well-known member
//Portraying Cho as a businessman is rubbish//

Oh! Yes! I agree. The magazine Tuglak is run for charity and the serial Enge Bramanan was also screened freely. He did not charge any fee for the ads that were aired before and after the serial. He used all the money he earned by his dramas only in charities. He is not a businessman. To say that he is a businessman is just rubbish.
 

pannvalan

Well-known member
Extending your argument a little further, why even charitable trusts collect fees and other charges for the institutions (schools/hospitals/old age homes) run by them? Come to think of it, even the governments (State/Central) charge for many of the services rendered by them. Why?
 

Nara

Well-known member
... Portraying Cho as a businessman is rubbish.

Dear RKB, I'm with you on this point. How does it matter whether Cho is a businessman or not? This is an example of the Ad Hominem fallacy. Resorting to it is sloppy and lazy.

The question is whether this series is beneficial to the so called Brahmin "community" or not. Whether Cho is a businessman or not is irrelevant, even if he was pandering for business reasons. We need to restrict our arguments to what he says and promotes.

Cheers!
 

nachi naga

Well-known member
what is benefit yesterday,today it becomes a loss,what is loss today becomes a benefit tomorrow.so,cho is a smart biz man to use all ancient info,to promote brahmins way of life.if one can learn something,good.otherwise,being a wisecrack is always an option.
 

RKB

Active member
Business of Politics is ...

Hinduism has space for every point of view. Therefore you are as much correct and as much wrong as Cho. Cho's point of view will not make sense if it is not read with his political intentions. But what his political intention can be is left to your own imagination.

In one of my posting I said that NRI Brahmins can not claim themselves as TBs. This is my point of view for I firmly believe that a TB should learn to live in Tamilnadu and take on people like MK. As a true TB I feel that Cho is working for a political mileage. Those in Obama's comfort will see everything as Business and that is not the way in Tamilnadu.


Shri RKB,

For example, Cho said, on one occasion, that caste is not based on birth but according to one's nature; in the last but one episode or so, he said every one should do the "kulathozhil" and should not take up another (paradharma). Similar contradictions were there in regard to the status of women in Hindu society and many other points. In sum, the serial does not help in projecting the ordinary TB of today as a real brahmanan.
 

RKB

Active member
Ange Illai Brahmanan

Sir, check with the Brahmin advocates practicing in Madras High Court. Check with the auditors (almost all the auditors are Brahmins) here. The Cho's serial has helped them to re assert themselves with the self esteem that was not possible for them before. This is a great social benefit. Other Brahmins also watch it and benefit from the message contained in it. Sure, as Brahmin, none agree with everything portrayed in the serial. This is the country of innumerable versions of Ramayana and Mahabharatha. Therefore, there is always a scope for another version of Enge Brahmanan.
The question is whether this series is beneficial to the so called Brahmin "community" or not. Whether Cho is a businessman or not is irrelevant, even if he was pandering for business reasons. We need to restrict our arguments to what he says and promotes.

Cheers!
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
Hinduism has space for every point of view. Therefore you are as much correct and as much wrong as Cho. Cho's point of view will not make sense if it is not read with his political intentions. But what his political intention can be is left to your own imagination.

If Cho was consistent in his interpretation which could be opposite to mine, or if he had given both the 'yes' and 'no' in the same episode and explained how both the opposites could be there, it was another matter. But I don't think Hinduism allows a person to say one thing on one day and its exact opposite another day as the view point of Hinduism.
In one of my posting I said that NRI Brahmins can not claim themselves as TBs. This is my point of view for I firmly believe that a TB should learn to live in Tamilnadu and take on people like MK. As a true TB I feel that Cho is working for a political mileage. Those in Obama's comfort will see everything as Business and that is not the way in Tamilnadu.
So, people like me who are in Kerala will not rank as TB in your eyes. Hope RVR, Praveen etc., follow your views.

Again what is meant by "take on people like MK"? Could the TBs take on EVR? or CNA? What further ability have the TBs acquired since then or what further damage MK has done to the TBs?
 

kameshratnam

Active member
My guru sri chandrasekara bharathi swamigal of sringeri has said there will be a true brahmin existing in this world and we have to search for him. He has said that since there is one more avatar of Mahavishnu to take place and hence a true brahmin will be there and we need to search for him.
As it is the serial had flaws, a brahmin should not have side burns at all and our hero in the serial did have it and they chose a wrong person.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi folks,
the story ends without any conclusion....but one is clear....the
brahmin has to suffer in kaliyuga....varna reethiyaga brahmanan
arithu...janmana jayate sudraha...karmana dvijaha....but the sad
part is kadambari's life? think about the same jaya tv telecast this
serial.....if it is in kalanjar /sun tv the story may be different....
any way cho is confused....audiences also confused...yathaa
rajaaa..thatha prajaha....

regards
tbs
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
My guru sri chandrasekara bharathi swamigal of sringeri has said there will be a true brahmin existing in this world and we have to search for him. He has said that since there is one more avatar of Mahavishnu to take place and hence a true brahmin will be there and we need to search for him.
As it is the serial had flaws, a brahmin should not have side burns at all and our hero in the serial did have it and they chose a wrong person.
According to the Puranas the next avatar of Vishnu as kalki will be as "mlechha" not as brahmana. Am I correct? So, why should we need another lone brahmin to exist for that? Is the Sringeri Swami overruling the puranas?
 
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