Theory of Karma

[Yamaka]

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In the present scientific age man has made great advances over his primitive ancestors and vastly improved his conditions of living. Today the life expectancy is much longer, hardships remarkably reduced, avenues of amusement increased manifold. In short, life is made much easier, thanks to the scientific revolution. But in spite of these advancements, and at times because of them, there is lack of peace in the minds of the people. Mr. Paul Brunton in his book ‘The Spiritual Crisis of Man’ pictures the character of a common man: “Exposed to the agitations of our age as we are, it is harder to keep a serene mind than ever before. Discouraging news heard too often and distracting fears have become too insidious to allow us to keep serenity without earning it the hard way. Without inward peace, without outward security, modern man, who for so long pitied his ancient and medieval fathers, is now himself to be pitied. There are alarming features in the growth of his emotional disequilibrium and mental instability. There are neurotic excitements and pathological turmoil’s , vehement passions and dangerous indecision in his mind and life. A dismal undertone runs beneath the world’s everyday talk. Men’s brows are intermittently wrinkled with worries as the hopes rise and fall alternatively. They live in long drawn suspense and anxious expectations. They look to each other for strength but find it not. Fear replaces faith, and perplexity shuttles to and fro with confidence. There is foreboding in their hearts and bewilderment in their minds.” While there are many people who have gleefully accepted the gifts of science and are trying to grab as much enjoyment as they can , exploiting the products of science in the process, there are a few , who have stood steadfast heroically amidst the hustle and bustle of modern life adhering to the age-old guidance in living. But the vast majority are a confused lot not knowing which path to follow, how to conduct one’s life in the right manner. To quote Paul Brunton again : “If many have succumbed to the unleashed lures of short lived sensualism, others have risen to the higher call of spiritual seeking; still others find their satisfaction in enthusiastic adherence ‘to political parties or economic doctrines bearing the flag of altruistic slogans but leading in the end to demonic violence ...If the crisis has clarified much for a few minds, it has confused everything for many minds. They do not know where to turn for truth, nor what to believe in the present, nor what to expect in the future. They are bewildered by the paralysing uncertainties and despondent over the staggering headlines, which stare at them daily from the tops of news papers. Such events make most of them feel they are being carried along , they do not know where. The result is that they do also not know how to deal with the doubts that infect their consciousness or the obstacles that interfere with their conduct. “The recent advances made by the modern sciences have shattered the faith of many people in the scriptures. A closer scrutiny reveals that all that the modern scientific achievements have provided is means of overcoming impediments in life thereby making living more comfortable. But it fails to provide us with guidance about the right mode of conduct of life. That is the function of the spiritual teachings of the scriptures. The scriptures show us the path of correctly leading our lives so as to fulfil the purpose of life and attain everlasting bliss, while science provides the means of gaining relief from obstacles in life. Thus the scientific discoveries cannot negate the teachings of the scriptures which are much beyond the realm of science. Also the scriptures do not contradict the empirical facts that are being discovered by the intensive scientific studies. The scriptures instruct us metaphysical principles which explain the nature of the universe and the purpose of life. They guide us in the right conduct of life so that we succeed in fulfilling the purpose of life and refrain from deviating from the correct path. They however do not describe the detailed workings of the universe. That is the domain of science. Scientific progress is necessary and inevitable. So also is the spiritual pursuit. The two are not incompatible. Such an integrated approach would enable us to live life more purposefully and peacefully. Natpushpa.

Hello Nat:

This is a very well written small essay... (please make paragraphs for the oldies here whose eyes drift and wander in a densely packed essay!).

I largely agree with the early part of this, but I have reservations about things said near the end...

"The scriptures instruct us metaphysical principles which explain the nature of the universe and the purpose of life."

Which Scriptures are you talking about?

Bible, Koran, Torah or the Vedas/Upanishads/Puranas? Here is the conflict and confusion.

What do they REALLY say about Nature and the Purpose of Life?

The interpretation is what's creating MORE chaos and mayhem!

Most people don't know Aramic, Arabic and Sanskrit - these three languages are hard to learn and practice... so people buy into "someone else' interpretation given in English", which goes with the social, political leanings of the interpreter...

If you are Spiritual - meaning Religious - you just can't embrace Science & Technology and vice versa.. I know there are whole lot of people wanting BOTH - they are again creating CONFLICTS in their psyche.. their inner Self will be in constant turmoil if they embrace BOTH ends of the Spectrum of Logic and Reasoning on the one end, simple Bhakthi/Devotion in Gods on the other end.

Yamaka gets peace and happiness when he controls his environment...he is the BOSS and thus "He is the Master of his Destiny"! Lol.

Peace comes by proper understanding and control of your family, job and other things that matter to you!

Peace.

 

[kunjuppu]

i have been following this thread of late.

i think the dialogues here are good examples of diametrically opposite views presented, argued and disagreed, without rancour.

what is it here that is different, from, for example 'kerala iyers in wikipedia'?

i am very curious. i would like to hear from both sides, as to why they are not beating each other up. why no one is quitting the forum? why is this post not closed?

what is the lesson for other posts?

 

[Nara]

...what is it here that is different, from, for example 'kerala iyers in wikipedia'?

The difference is obvious, just look at who is participating and more importantly, who is not participating.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Natpushpa,

Very few would be willing to give up the pursuit of money, perhaps rightly so. Nothing wrong in it per se. So I think instead of talking about the evils of pursuit of money, we need to talk to them about the possibility of having the best of both worlds, possessing money and happiness without conflicts.

This is a world steeped in materialism. But there is a big danger in embracing it totally. I think that is the reason in this age spirituality and science have to co-exist. Both have their roles to play.

 

[renuka]

i have been following this thread of late.

i think the dialogues here are good examples of diametrically opposite views presented, argued and disagreed, without rancour.

what is it here that is different, from, for example 'kerala iyers in wikipedia'?

i am very curious. i would like to hear from both sides, as to why they are not beating each other up. why no one is quitting the forum? why is this post not closed?

what is the lesson for other posts?

Simple Kunjs,

We can argue and fight about Kerala... God's Own Land,
Cos there we can "see" and "deny" and swing our hand,
Here may be its still in Sanchita or soon in Agamin span,
Not in Prarabdha for sure..Well how do we know Karma.. God's Own Plan.

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Subbudu.

This is in response to your post #438. Since you said you are serious, let us make an attempt to infer the logistics behind karma as the universal law of cause and effect, which is inviolable.

• IMO, chitra-gupta--hidden pictures, that is, the AkAshic Records, is the place where universal karma's records are found. The subtle bodies don't have the duplicates, but they might have the pointers to the locations of an individual record's individual and social acts in these AkAshic Records.

• Just like the records in a hard disk are maintained by a series of pointers called link-lists in a directory table, so are an individual's karmic records maintained in the subtle bodies. Similar to the ways we access the records on the Internet, the subtle bodies get the effects of the karmic records transmitted to them.

• Death, just like birth is natural. This means that a person who gets an akAla-maraNam--premature death, is left with some balance of lifetime in the just-ended birth. The equivalent of this lifetime is spent in the astral world, before the soul gravitates to the subtler world of the heavens or returns to the gross world of earth for its next birth.

• Now, let us take case of three persons involved in a murder, that you have indicated in your post. Person K kills person V, and the victim dies. Person J as a judge, administers death sentence to the killer K. In this case, the deaths of K and V are premature, while J, let us say, attains a natural death.

• If K's action of murder is unpremeditated and was done out of passion or greed, chances are that he might have repented his act and become mellowed while waiting for his death in the prison. In this case K bides his leftover time in the astral world and either gravitates to the heavens if he has any good karmic balance, or returns to earth.

• If K committed a cold and premeditated murder, this would mean that he had the instinct to kill in his nature and any amount of prison time prior to execution might not have cured him of this tendency. Thus, if his killer instincts still exist, he would return to earth after biding his leftover time in the astral world, so his rebirth will be sooner than in the case of a normal person.

• What about the hapless victim V? Why did he have to die a premature death? The answers to this question are to be found in his karmic records of previous births, so won't be known to us or to him. If V is born as a normal person in this birth, after having repented and suffered any of his evil acts in earlier births, he would gravitate to heaven after his leftover time in the astral world is over. His next birth will be according to his mental make up.

• If V is an enemy, say a gangster who was killed in revenge, his post-mortem position could be that he would, after spending his leftover time in the astral world, return to earth with undissolved killer instincts and perhaps might have occasion to take revenge on K who killed him, when K himself is born as a contemporary.

• Is J as a judge, absoloved of any karma? Yes, so long as he has not punished an innocent person. His death and rebirth would be according to his mental make up and karmic balances.

It is not possible to infer the logistics behind every incident, because most causes are hidden in previous births, thus unkown to us and the person concerned.

Karma is not just for individuals. It is cumulative, so we have the karma of a family, society, nation and humanity as a whole. Wherever there is manifestation of consciousness, free will, mind and scope for actions, the cause and effect of the law of karma will rule across the times of physical life, death, afterlife and rebirths.

If you are interested to know more, you can find the answers in Theosophy--as to what happens after death, afterlife, how the next birth is shaped and who shape it. The book 'Etheric Double, Astral, Mental and Causal Bodies' by Arthur E.Powell can give you a comprehensive view. Whether the speculations (supposed to be clairvoyantly investigated and documented) have the scriptural backing or not, they are logical. This book can be downloaded here:
The Etheric, Astral, Mental, And Causal Bodies by Arthur E Powell

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Saidevo,
Very good post#506.
I have problem with your term 'premature death'. If you believe in the Karma theory and its infallibility (as I do), there is nothing premature. There are no accidents, they are just in-explainable events.

I also have problem with the concept of heaven and hell. The explanation that God punishes or rewards on the basis of action is not there at all. The karma theory puts the responsibility entirely on the individual. That way there is no external intervention needed.
I come from the advaita background. I believe that soul takes next birth (if not liberated) immediately. I am purely speculating.

 

[subbudu1]

namaste shrI Subbudu.

This is in response to your post #438. Since you said you are serious, let us make an attempt to infer the logistics behind karma as the universal law of cause and effect, which is inviolable.

• IMO, chitra-gupta--hidden pictures, that is, the AkAshic Records, is the place where universal karma's records are found. The subtle bodies don't have the duplicates, but they might have the pointers to the locations of an individual record's individual and social acts in these AkAshic Records.

• Just like the records in a hard disk are maintained by a series of pointers called link-lists in a directory table, so are an individual's karmic records maintained in the subtle bodies. Similar to the ways we access the records on the Internet, the subtle bodies get the effects of the karmic records transmitted to them.

• Death, just like birth is natural. This means that a person who gets an akAla-maraNam--premature death, is left with some balance of lifetime in the just-ended birth. The equivalent of this lifetime is spent in the astral world, before the soul gravitates to the subtler world of the heavens or returns to the gross world of earth for its next birth.

• Now, let us take case of three persons involved in a murder, that you have indicated in your post. Person K kills person V, and the victim dies. Person J as a judge, administers death sentence to the killer K. In this case, the deaths of K and V are premature, while J, let us say, attains a natural death.

• If K's action of murder is unpremeditated and was done out of passion or greed, chances are that he might have repented his act and become mellowed while waiting for his death in the prison. In this case K bides his leftover time in the astral world and either gravitates to the heavens if he has any good karmic balance, or returns to earth.

• If K committed a cold and premeditated murder, this would mean that he had the instinct to kill in his nature and any amount of prison time prior to execution might not have cured him of this tendency. Thus, if his killer instincts still exist, he would return to earth after biding his leftover time in the astral world, so his rebirth will be sooner than in the case of a normal person.

• What about the hapless victim V? Why did he have to die a premature death? The answers to this question are to be found in his karmic records of previous births, so won't be known to us or to him. If V is born as a normal person in this birth, after having repented and suffered any of his evil acts in earlier births, he would gravitate to heaven after his leftover time in the astral world is over. His next birth will be according to his mental make up.

• If V is an enemy, say a gangster who was killed in revenge, his post-mortem position could be that he would, after spending his leftover time in the astral world, return to earth with undissolved killer instincts and perhaps might have occasion to take revenge on K who killed him, when K himself is born as a contemporary.

• Is J as a judge, absoloved of any karma? Yes, so long as he has not punished an innocent person. His death and rebirth would be according to his mental make up and karmic balances.

It is not possible to infer the logistics behind every incident, because most causes are hidden in previous births, thus unkown to us and the person concerned.

Karma is not just for individuals. It is cumulative, so we have the karma of a family, society, nation and humanity as a whole. Wherever there is manifestation of consciousness, free will, mind and scope for actions, the cause and effect of the law of karma will rule across the times of physical life, death, afterlife and rebirths.

If you are interested to know more, you can find the answers in Theosophy--as to what happens after death, afterlife, how the next birth is shaped and who shape it. The book 'Etheric Double, Astral, Mental and Causal Bodies' by Arthur E.Powell can give you a comprehensive view. Whether the speculations (supposed to be clairvoyantly investigated and documented) have the scriptural backing or not, they are logical. This book can be downloaded here:
The Etheric, Astral, Mental, And Causal Bodies by Arthur E Powell

Thank you Sai for your long explanation. In my understanding as far as Puranas are concerned. A man's death leads to him being dragged to the hall of Yama where his sins and good actions are enumerated. Perhaps after that he is sent to a new life if there is nothing more to be done. Or he is punished in the different hells . This is the idea in puranas.

In the upanishads. The soul leaves the body incarnates in the body according to Karma. In between it travel with inanimate matter and dust and finally as food before entering a man.

Firstly it is difficult to reconcile both these narratives. On top of that why would somebody need to be punished twice, once in Naraka and another time in a human body. I feel it sounds inconsistent.

Then comes the narrative of Akashic Records which you explain as taken from a theosophist work. However as a rational person and as a knownledgable hindu like yourself , should you not think twice about trusting the arguments of theosophists. Theosophists have been debunked by none other than J.Krishnamurthy.
These arguments seem less believable to me than what is crafted by our Sravna. I would rather go with the arguments of Srvana then trust anything said by theosophists.
Do we have a consistent narrative on Karma as can be extracted directly from puranas and other sacred literature, rather than from constructs of self-made swamijis. It appears our Nithyananda of Bangalore fame, also had to speak on something about Akashic records. Do we really have to give weightage to these arguments?

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Prasad.

I am a Shankara-smArta-advaitin, but I believe in the vyavahAriha sattA--practical reality/existence of the three worlds bhUH-bhuva-suvaH--earth-astral-heaven.

• Now, the three worlds are not something far away and unreachable to us until we are dead: we are connected to them every moment of our living, although we do not realize it. Our sensual-emotional-mental bodies have connections to these three worlds. The more refined they are, the better will we be able to be consciousness of the connections.

• Every human being has a vishva-rUpam--pervading form, that spans these three worlds. But since the astral and mental bodies of most of us are not adequately developed, their spans are presently like dumb shadows. We are constantly watched and helped by the beings in the astral and mental/heavenly worlds. They range from the devas to our deceased ancestors, and other closely assoiated kith and kin.

• Not just the deva-pitRu, but a whole lot of evil entities loiter the astral world, trying to influence our actions, taking advantage of our moments of weaknesses. That some people are possessed by them and are cured by exorcism are practical realities, although there is much hype and superstition in this field, gullible people fall prey to.

• Clairvoyance, seances, channels, telepathy, remote-sensing, communicating with the spirits and such allied things are researched in parallel by the spiritually inclined people, involving those who are sensitive to these metaphysical realities.

• It is easy for us as an advaitin, atheist or agnostic to dismiss such metaphysical realities, but every one of us, irrespective of our belief or disbelief is sure to have an afterlife, which will be apparant to us only during our last moments. So, getting to read and know about them with proper perspective can serve as guidelines and warning signs in our afterlife.

• I have read in Theosophy that accidents and falling victim to a killer constitute premature death. In Hindu Dharma too we have mantras to guard against akAla-maraNam. I shall try to check up more on this in Hindu texts.

Thus, we will only be deluding ourselves if we think that we are Advaitins, so mokSha is imminent to us after this life, or that we are agnostics/atheists, so this life is the only one and final, unless somebody clones us. The practical reality, IMHO, for most of us is that any amount of sAdhana or science is unlikely to see get us beyond the cycle of reincarnation and karma.

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Subbudu.

This is in response to your post #508. Let us consider this scenario.

• The Hindu mind, reading the GaruDa purANam, visaualizes the different types of hells described therein. The same Hindu mind does also understand the upaniShad concept of transmigration of the individual soul, as more logical and philosophical.

• The same Hindu mind again, when reading other philosophies such as Theosophy, Kabbala, Gnosticism or Mysic Islam, is able to sympathize--even emphathize--with those concepts.

• And this same Hindu mind can understand the different perceptions of the heavens from various religious, spiritual and philosophical traditions.

What is the significance of all this? The significance is that it is the human mind that shapes up--not makes up--a human being, his earthly life, his afterlife and future rebirths.

• Does this mean that all the metaphysical reality of the astral and mental worlds and concepts such as the Akashic records is false, being only products of the human mind?

• No. If that be the case, then the physical reality is also a product of the mind and so must be false. Therefore, the correct meaning is that the residences, localities and social life of a man, both in the earthly life and afterlife are created by the human mind.

• This physical body of ours and our surroundings of life are the results of our mind in earlier births. It is the mind in this birth that would decide the body and environment we would be placed in, in the afterlife and the next birth.

Therefore, the physical and metaphysical worlds are real in their own realms of existence. Humans being guided by their mind, place themselves in the surroundings preferred by their mind, both in this life, afterlife and future lives.

Many Hindu sages have testified to the existence of Akashic records. The parallel Hindu concept is seen in the sAmkhyA philosophy of AkAsha being of two kinds--kAraNa and kArya--corresponding to its formless and atomic nature. The tanmAtras create through the kAryAkAsha the five types of atoms which are the carriers of karma.
The five classes of atoms are generated from the tanmatras as follows: the sound-potential, with accretion of rudiment matter from bhutadi generates the akasa-atom

Some Hindu links to subtle worlds and Akashic records:

Kauai's Hindu Monastery - Search Results
VEDA - Vedas and Vedic Knowledge Online - Vedic Encyclopedia, Bhakti-yoga in vedas, Library

About chitragupta:
Hindu Fasts & Festivals

Seven cosmic planes: Aurobindo's discovery:
Links between Vedas, Upanishads, Tantra and Puranas | Integral Yoga of Sri Aurobindo & The Mother

Yoganandana, his is 'Autobiography' speaks about afterlife in astral worlds in great detail (ch.43: Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar)

Osho: Akashic records in tantra

 

[sangom]

Mr. Saidevo,
Very good post#506.
I have problem with your term 'premature death'. If you believe in the Karma theory and its infallibility (as I do), there is nothing premature. There are no accidents, they are just in-explainable events.

I also have problem with the concept of heaven and hell. The explanation that God punishes or rewards on the basis of action is not there at all. The karma theory puts the responsibility entirely on the individual. That way there is no external intervention needed.
I come from the advaita background. I believe that soul takes next birth (if not liberated) immediately. I am purely speculating.

Shri Prasad,

I agree with you. There was no concept of a separate hill in the rigvedic scenario. Dead people's souls go to another loka, called pitruloka, ruled by Yama and these souls get a life according to their merits. The best of the lot get to occupy equal position as devas and so on.

IMO the heaven-hell, Garudapurana etc., are later additions most probably after the advent of alien religious thoughts.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Natpushpa,

Very few would be willing to give up the pursuit of money, perhaps rightly so. Nothing wrong in it per se. So I think instead of talking about the evils of pursuit of money, we need to talk to them about the possibility of having the best of both worlds, possessing money and happiness without conflicts.

This is a world steeped in materialism. But there is a big danger in embracing it totally. I think that is the reason in this age spirituality and science have to co-exist. Both have their roles to play.

Dear Sravna:

Although I like the overall message you want to convey here, I have to disagree with the elements:

1. People are in pursuit of not just money, but of a fulfilling profession, comfort, freedom and a possibility of "growth" for themselves and their family - money is just a portion of it. As I said, after a point, money has no real value for me and folks like me. Money need not be considered as EVIL.

2. The world is steeped in professionalism - there is fierce competition between different professions. For example, computer science/engineering has advanced much faster than any other science in the past 30 years, perhaps. People in other areas notice this, and ask "Why don't we make similar progress?"

This attitude is good for the betterment of humanity. Words like "materialism" "evil money" are unnecessary for it creates negative taste in us. Why do you want that?

3. You talk about spirituality and science to co-exist.. those who are free thinkers and RATIONALISTS who believe in the majesty and potential of Science & Technology will never buy the theories of Religion/Spirituality, Gods and JPK... On the other hand, if the Theists want to embrace and enjoy the fruits of S & T, Atheists have NO philosophical objection at all.

In fact, since the days of Industrial Revolution, Science & Technology has been uplifting all people, including the Theists, who have been relentlessly consuming the benefits of S &T (for professions, jobs and their health). For these people, the time has come to embrace Science & Technology with a warm heart.

Welcome.

 

[natpushpa]

Dear Sri Ymaka, With respect #501 of Sri Yamaka : One can avail of the spiritual teachings from the scriptures. These teachings have been enshrined in the Upanishads and reiterated in a simplified form in the Bhagavad Gita. They are elaborated and systematised in the Shad Darsana , viz., Sankhaya , Yoga , Nyaya , Vaisheshika , Purva Mimamsa and Vedanda . They have been stated allegorically in Yoga Vasishtha and in the Itihasas (Ramayana and Mahabharata ) and the Puranas. It is to these that we must turn to, for guidance. It is not hereby claimed that the knowledge about Truth is the prerogative of the Hindus. The same Truth is stated in the Holy books of other religions , as has been beautifully demonstrated by Aldous Huxley in his book “The Perennial Philosophy.” But nowhere it is presented in such a systematic fashion as in the Hindu scriptures cited above. In addition to the above there are lot of Hindu scriptural texts. We should turn to the eternal principles stipulating the right conduct of living , not rigidly adhering to the religions founded on them. Of course language may be a hindrance. In such cases , these principles can be obtained from persons adept in the scriptures, i.e., the Spiritual Gurus- the living scriptures . If a person is unable to undertake the study of the scriptures himself , he should seek the guidance of a person who has imbibed their spirit (and is not merely well versed in the letter.) Such a Guru must be practising what he preaches. Natpushpa.

 

[Yamaka]

Many of the Theists here advocate going to Scriptures for peace of mind and happiness..

I hear horror stories in the households of Vedic scholars who read and understand Vedas, Puranas and Scriptures regularly.

What do I infer from this?

It occurs to me - the self-proclaimed Atheist - that peace and happiness are very elusive matters..people are unhappy and in turmoil for hundreds of reasons... some of the reasons are

1. The wife is not listening to the very autocratic husband, even though the husband provides for everything... she expects RESPECT from him, which he is not willing to consider... chaos at home!

2. The son is listening ONLY to the "unruly" mother at home and not to the father who is the "bread winner".

3. Husband is not understanding the emotional needs of the wife - he considers her as just "a wife" to cook, clean and make him happy as and when he wants.

You see, in all this money is not involved at all...

That's why I say it's the understanding of the environment and the players involved in it is more important than anything...then you need to learn to control/regulate them to give you peace of mind and happiness.

The man involved in mental agony above may be a regular reader of Scriptures!

More later....

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Thiru Yamaha Avarkale!
I have a genuine doubt.If the head of the family is a confirmed Athiest,but his wife and children are believers/Theists, is it possible to maintain peaceful environment in the house. Will there not be clash of interests?

 

[C RAVI]

Thiru Yamaha Avarkale!
I have a genuine doubt.If the head of the family is a confirmed Athiest,but his wife and children are believers/Theists, is it possible to maintain peaceful environment in the house. Will there not be clash of interests?

IMO, certainly there would be clash of interest and choas in the family in such cases.

But at certain point of time, the Theist wife would say - "Look my so called "purushan", don't ever dare in future to interfere with my practices at my home. I don't care if you are atheist and or naturalist and you are the bread winner. If you make issues with me for my spiritual practices, I will not only curse you terribly but would know how well to make your life hell. So better shut up and mind your business and let me do what I want for myself and my children to do"

 

[sarang]

This is very common in tamil DK homes. karunanidhi, former cm of tamilnadu is a vocal atheist (only against hinduism and brahmins), but his children, dils (daughters in law) are regular temple visitors and often sponsor yagams and renovation. They were quiet about it in the past, but now they practice hinduism more visibly. MK could not convince or force his children to renounce religious practices. I hope the children of NRI atheists will do likewise.

I understand some kerala and bengal communists do not follow party's diktats when religion is concerned. Muslim and sikh communists are a puzzle because they wear their religion openly!

Thiru Yamaha Avarkale!
I have a genuine doubt.If the head of the family is a confirmed Athiest,but his wife and children are believers/Theists, is it possible to maintain peaceful environment in the house. Will there not be clash of interests?

 

[natpushpa]

This is with reference to Post#514 of Sri Yamaka. What is the genesis of emotional disturbances ? Emotions are subjective disturbances caused as a result of faulty notions about life (Moha,delusion ). Improper knowledge (Avidya) about the purpose of life leads to development of an erroneous ideal in life. Whichever worldly phenomena appeals to a person , he gives undue importance to it or overvalues it. He expends his resources of time, energy and money in the pursuit of his cherished objective be it wealth or beauty or fame. Whatever is in conformity with his personal ideal meets with approval while that which he underrates is disapproved by him. These are his personal opinions and count for nought as long as they are based upon his distorted value system. But not realizing this, he develops an attitude of attachment (Raga) towards the worldly phenomena of his choice. (This attachment is almost always mistakenly called love). Also, the worldly phenomena whose utility he under-rates generate an attitude of hatred (Dvesha). These acquired attitudes of attachment and hatred are responsible for the occurrence of various emotions. ---------------------------------------- A person is overjoyed at the occurrence of events of his choice, like procurement of a cherished object or successful accomplishment of a desired plan of action. He becomes dejected when his expectations remain unfulfilled or his plans are frustrated. When there is interference in the procurement of the desired object or in the execution of the desired objective, he becomes angry at the interfering agent . When the wanted object is secured by a rival , it gives to jealousy. Unlimited hunger for an object of attachment leads to greed. Threat to the safety of a cherished possession causes fear. Loss of a loved object produces depression. Likewise , presence of a hated object causes misery. Threat of a hated object being thrust upon oneself produces fear. ------------ -- Thus , it is the attitudes of attachment and hatred based upon an incorrect ideal in life that is responsible for the occurrence of emotional disturbances in life. If we wish to free ourselves from them, we should give up our personal ideal in favour of the correct one given by the scriptures. --------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- However most of us do not wish to get rid of all emotions. We want to do away with only some of them like sorrow (Shoka) while retaining others like joy (Harsha). This is an impossibility as the two co-exist as two sides of the same coin. If we strive for joy we shall inevitably be visited by sorrow as well, for both of them originate from the same source viz., wrong ideal. If we want to get rid of sorrow we must give up the expectation of joy. They are a pair (Dvandva) the opposite of which is peace (Santhi). Rather than trying to procure joy and avoid sorrow we must shun both of them and strive for peace. This comes only when we agree to abide by the teachings of the scriptures and conduct our lives on its basis. Natpushpa.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna:

I ask you again, "Can you recreate the identical living environment that you grew up?"

If yes, then my answer will be YES, the clones will be 100% identical to the original parent.

The key here is identical environment.

Sorry Shri Yamaka. Even if you clone a person, the identity of the clone would be different. Just like two different bodies are two different entitites, the "I" ness would also be different.

Astonishing that even scientists harbor the delusion that the "I" ness would be the same. You people need to shed a lot of your ego and think of less grandiose things than nailing the coffin of the concept of God.

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Sravna,

I always read your posts and find them very interesting. As nara sir and sangom sir pointed out, your version of advaita is different from that of adi shankara. But more fascinating nevertheless.

I will suggest you please put all your thots into a booklet form and get it published by ramakrishna mutt or any publisher dealing in religious publications. So that your thots can reach out to more people and those who are not internet-savvy.

Regards.

 

[happyhindu]

You people need to shed a lot of your ego and think of less grandiose things than nailing the coffin of the concept of God.

How would you define ego?

 

[prasad1]

Post#516, C. Ravi.
Well said is it not what happened in Hirayankashpu's family?

That said no two person has identical views on anything for long. In spiritual practice at least in Hinduism everyone is on their own. Karma theory does not let you escape your responsibility even if are married. Husband has to look after his karma's and wife has to watch for her's. People may help each other to do the actions correctly, but that is the extent of help. In a relationship there are compromises. You compromise for peace.

I knew a family like that in England. The husband was not very social, and did not believe in 'God'. Wife was religious and very lonely. I met them briefly over dinner, they were gracious host. But they opened up so fast as emotions were high. The wife tells me that she goes away to India for 3 months at a time. She also goes to the local temple, but does not talk to others, as her husband does not like many people.

 

[prasad1]

You people need to shed a lot of your ego and think of less grandiose things than nailing the coffin of the concept of God.

I agree with your premise, I work on it everyday, but has not been very successful. If I shed my ego, why would I be posting? We have ego, that is why our point of view matters to us. I also come here to learn, and mend my understanding.

 

[sravna]

Shri Sravna,

I always read your posts and find them very interesting. As nara sir and sangom sir pointed out, your version of advaita is different from that of adi shankara. But more fascinating nevertheless.

I will suggest you please put all your thots into a booklet form and get it published by ramakrishna mutt or any publisher dealing in religious publications. So that your thots can reach out to more people and those who are not internet-savvy.

Regards.

Thanks Smt.Happyhindu! I am a learner and put forth my ideas to elicit constructive criticisms and also look for alternate views. I think there are some great savants here and if the discussions in the forum can be consolidated into a coherent material, definitely your suggestion of publishing would be a good one. Especially so because I think some interesting and refreshing views have been presented here.

 

[sravna]

How would you define ego?

Talking in a practical sense, you have ego when your self importance has grown out of proportions. An example is when you think, even if it is not explicitly said that you can play God. If you think you are all powerful then naturally your attitude towards others is at the very best condescending. One needs to have a sense of balance regarding importance of self relative to the importance of others.