How does Karma theory explain Massacare of Kids and the agony of their Parents

[renuka]

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Dear Doc,

That may be a speculation on our part (reg. the heartless portion). It may be that karma theory offers the best consolation for the loss, don't you think?

Dear JR,

I prefer you call me by my name Renuka or Renu..that makes us feel closer.

I still do not agree that Karma theory offers the best consolation for the loss becos then humans wont be motivated to reach out and help others when internally well feel "oh..they must have sinned no wonder they suffered" and be judgmental about loss of lives and suffering and subconsciously some might feel they are having a better Karma than others not knowing that death could strike anytime in anyway.

That way if we resort to Karma theory..then when we are sick do not seek treatment..we should just die cos its our Karma to fall sick..may be in the past birth we used disinfectant and killed a bacteria so this birth the bacteria attacked us..so let it attack its our Karma to suffer..do not use antibiotics!LOL

If we are born poor..let us wallow in poverty..do not study or try to improve ourselves cos we could incur the wrath of God for not allowing Karma to make us remain poor!LOL

Then we should not do pariharams or even pray to God when we are in distress cos that again is against the Karma theory..if we are meant to suffer..learn to suffer more!LOL

See how illogical it can get if we try to justify anything with Karma?

I am not against Karma theory but all I can say is we have no idea how the heck it works..so the best is to lead life with love and compassion and help ever,hurt never and judge never ever!

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Sorry that my post upset you so much !!. There is absolutely no question of being heartless or arrogant in quoting the Karma theory at a time of this tragedy. I totally understand your emotions.

Infact I mentioned earlier in one of my post that please do not gloat on one’s success/glory, coz life can turn on its head in one instant & lay bare all the decades of work!

Having said that, humans have always searched for answers why they suffer, all through eternity. So unless someone can come with a better explanation, many of us would go with the Karma theory.

That does not mean, humans should resign themselves to Karma/fate & not do anything in their lives (actually this is a western opinion that Karma leads to people resigning to fate etc..), even in our scriptures - great emphasis is placed on human endeavor, our Rishis did decades of penance to gain salvation in this life instead of being born again. They prescribed many pariharams to resolve the poorva janma karma.

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

As I said earlier, one should be very respectful & almost fearful of what tomorrow can bring !. so there is absolutely no question of preaching others with the Karma theory !! It is only a search for answers to make sense of such terrible tragedies.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

It is not correct to say that karma theory encourages inaction. It is only a way to understand what seems otherwise difficult to explain for someone who believes in God. For example, I believe in Karma theory but that does not make prone to inaction. Actually what karma theory means is what makes up the spiritual reality unfolds as events before us. Since spiritual reality is an interconnected and balanced reality, anything that is an action in the physical world will be balanced by an appropriate reaction in accordance with the balanced nature of the spiritual reality.

Actions like pariharams and prayers are supposed to act at the spiritual level and manifest at the physical level in some way. So if you do pariharam for something it does not mean that you simply wait for things to happen magically. It plays out in the physical world in a logical way and may be in terms of your resolve for appropriate actions.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

Sorry that my post upset you so much !!. There is absolutely no question of being heartless or arrogant in quoting the Karma theory at a time of this tragedy. I totally understand your emotions.

,

Dear Jaykay,

Thank you for understanding becos loss of lives are a painful matter for victims their parents and the rest of the world.

Its real shocking to read that one of the survivors aged 16 was shot 2 times in his legs but he acted as if he was dead and the terrorist thought he was dead and did not shoot him again.He said that he was lying still waiting to see if the terrorist would kill him.

Just imagine the plight of a 16 year old boy who had to bear the pain of 2 bullet wounds and not make a sound and just lie still to play dead not sure if he will survive.

So I feel the best is for us not to speculate and we should just to wonder what else is the world going to face next and how to prevent loss of innocent lives.

Thank you again for understanding.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

It is not correct to say that karma theory encourages inaction. It is only a way to understand what seems otherwise difficult to explain for someone who believes in God. For example, I believe in Karma theory but that does not make prone to inaction. Actually what karma theory means is what makes up the spiritual reality unfolds as events before us. Since spiritual reality is an interconnected and balanced reality, anything that is an action in the physical world will be balanced by an appropriate reaction in accordance with the balanced nature of the spiritual reality.

Actions like pariharams and prayers are supposed to act at the spiritual level and manifest at the physical level in some way. So if you do pariharam for something it does not mean that you simply wait for things to happen magically. It plays out in the physical world in a logical way and may be in terms of your resolve for appropriate actions.

Dear Sravna,

Karma is not meant to promote Inaction but the traditional view of thinking that Karma is a Tit for Tat phenomenon makes us prone for Inaction.

I still feel none of us can explain Karma..in fact even religious texts seldom really talk about Karma as detail..its always with shades of grey.

Karma theory is used maximum when society has no ways of alleviating poverty.

So simply blame the poor and say "hey guys! you sinned in your previous birth..so silently bear it..you are in Karma bhoomi..if you silently bear it..you will be entitled to heaven"

Its all mind-play to subdue the masses.

For me I feel the Karmic cycle exists but I have no idea how it works..read lots about its mechanism of action but as I said..its always a left to interpretation.

So simple fact in life is to follow is Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara and leave Karma out of this equation.

 

[P.J.]

Dear Doc,

That may be a speculation on our part (reg. the heartless portion). It may be that karma theory offers the best consolation for the loss, don't you think?

Smt JR Ji

Please don't argue with those who are rhetoric in their reply without any meaning.

Reading such replies will make you Nauseating.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

atma does not have death...ONLY THE PHYSICAL BODY....so physical body due to the KARMA OF KARTA....ATMA IS

LIFE IS PRE DESTINED.....DEATH IS ALSO PRE DESTINED....BELIEVE IT OR NOT...ITS REALITY...

After physical death of body, where does Atma go? Is there any way or mantra to locate it?

If death is pre-destined, is there any way to know the date and time of death?

 

[renuka]

Smt JR Ji

Please don't argue with those who are rhetoric in their reply without any meaning.

Reading such replies will make you Nauseating.

Dear PJ sir,

Morning sickness usually subsides after a few months..so dont worry..the nausea will soon disappear.

take care..

lots of LOVVU

Renuka

 

[auh]

Nobody knows if karma theory is true or not. All these are merely to lessen the burden of the grief that is ever so present in this fleeting (or rather flirting) life. Just as elders used to instill the fear of the non-existent "one-eyed man" to make the child eat, we have another to comfort the mind.

Imo, there cannot be any logical explanation or analysis regarding karma as it is impossible to prove it.

May the tenderness that was stifled, open the minds of those that believe in the supremacy of dogmas above humanity.

 

[P.J.]

Nobody knows if karma theory is true or not. All these are merely to lessen the burden of the grief that is ever so present in this fleeting (or rather flirting) life. Just as elders used to instill the fear of the non-existent "one-eyed man" to make the child eat, we have another to comfort the mind.

Imo, there cannot be any logical explanation or analysis regarding karma as it is impossible to prove it.

May the tenderness that was stifled, open the minds of those that believe in the supremacy of dogmas above humanity.

This is what i wrote in post no 15!!

Karma theory is hard to prove.

 

[a-TB]

I do not know what the explains such tragedies that one can accept. Some say it is all 'God's will' - though I find it hard that God who is supposed to be all love will act like this.

Mr Sangom's explanation made sense to me a bit though I do not know details of Karma theory.

Hope discussions about possible explanations continue.

I find that Madam Renuka quickly insinuates names for posting members without realizing - heartless for wanting discussions here, crybaby , hypocrite, bruised ego etc in other threads. Let me hope members do not get stifled by such terms and focus instead on the topic area and share their views openly.

The forum is more interesting when the focus is on topic.

 

[renuka]

I find that Madam Renuka quickly insinuates names for posting members without realizing - heartless for wanting discussions here, crybaby , hypocrite, bruised ego etc in other threads. Let me hope members do not get stifled by such terms and focus instead on the topic area and share their views openly.

.

Take a number and wait in line..the number of those who cant help saying something about me keeps increasing. Boy am I getting Infamous.

We need to have a queue management system!LOL

BTW I just love how accurate you can get.It's a rare gift.

 

[sangom]

People start heartlessly speculating that death like this is becos of past BAD Karma and label anyone who had an unfortunate death as a sinner!

Smt. Renuka,

Death, and that too 'untimely death' as in this Peshawar tragedy, does not at all mean that it is due to past bad Karmas only. There are cases of "sadyO mrityu" - infants dying as soon as they are born - and it is our religious belief that such births are of very highly evolved souls who just had to go through the experience in the womb, as also the pain suffered by the soul during the birth process.

Markandeya was given only 16 years not because he had committed any sin or mistake as in the case of Jaya-Vijaya. AdiShankara lived only 32 years as per legend. Also there is the saying "pApee ShatAyuH" (a sinner lives 100 years.) I am reminded of my (maternal) great grandfather whose elder son died due to snake-bite at the age of 54 and the father had to perform the last rites because the son had no male issues. My mother used to tell me that her grandfather told the people who came for condolence, the same saying ("pApee ShatAyuH") and added that his son was probably a soul with lot of good deeds that he left so early!

Therefore, while at the mundane level all of us will feel for the children who were mercilessly killed by the terrorists, the truth is that there is no "compassionate god" as sought to be advertised by religions. God, in his form as Death, is an impartial judge. And, our own religious scripture says that krishna, the omnipotent god on earth, in human form, told Arjuna that all those billions of soldiers had already been technically 'written-off' and Arjuna was only acting as a token instrument to bring about the "killing" of their physical bodies. May be, if Gita is truth embodied, the terrorists were also, similarly, only a "token" or nimitta and all those who died had already been written off in the heavenly ledgers.

Hence, there is no need to be overly emotional on this issue, I think.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

Death, and that too 'untimely death' as in this Peshawar tragedy, does not at all mean that it is due to past bad Karmas only. There are cases of "sadyO mrityu" - infants dying as soon as they are born - and it is our religious belief that such births are of very highly evolved souls who just had to go through the experience in the womb, as also the pain suffered by the soul during the birth process.

Markandeya was given only 16 years not because he had committed any sin or mistake as in the case of Jaya-Vijaya. AdiShankara lived only 32 years as per legend. Also there is the saying "pApee ShatAyuH" (a sinner lives 100 years.) I am reminded of my (maternal) great grandfather whose elder son died due to snake-bite at the age of 54 and the father had to perform the last rites because the son had no male issues. My mother used to tell me that her grandfather told the people who came for condolence, the same saying ("pApee ShatAyuH") and added that his son was probably a soul with lot of good deeds that he left so early!

Therefore, while at the mundane level all of us will feel for the children who were mercilessly killed by the terrorists, the truth is that there is no "compassionate god" as sought to be advertised by religions. God, in his form as Death, is an impartial judge. And, our own religious scripture says that krishna, the omnipotent god on earth, in human form, told Arjuna that all those billions of soldiers had already been technically 'written-off' and Arjuna was only acting as a token instrument to bring about the "killing" of their physical bodies. May be, if Gita is truth embodied, the terrorists were also, similarly, only a "token" or nimitta and all those who died had already been written off in the heavenly ledgers.

Hence, there is no need to be overly emotional on this issue, I think.

Dear Sangom Ji,

Thanks for explanation which matches very much with the Islamic point of view about dying young.

Coming to the fact about being emotional..I just wanted to highlight that if death occurs to someone else not related to us we humans sit and speculate but if it happens to a loved one or own kith and kin then emotions take over and we totally blank out like how Arjuna could not face his own relatives in the battle field.

May be you are right..I should try to be less "emotional"..I do admit that I can easily feel for anyone when it comes to death..the person does not have to be my own blood for me to shed a tear and that is why I do not wish to speculate about the cause of death of children or anyone for that matter becos its too "painful" for me to be only attached to my own blood and turn a blind eye to the rest of the world.

But whatever said and done I prefer not to drag in God or Karma theory in such situations as I know God does NOT micromanage and none of us really know how Karma works.

I disagree with religious text that one should not grieve over death becos its inevitable..Yes I know death is inevitable but the process of dying can very very painful and to sit down and ignore the pain of others is not possible sometimes. Its all easier said and done if the death happens to others and does not concern us..so everyone can be technical about it.

A normal human goes thru a process of grief that involves a few stages..emotions to finally acceptance. I still very much believe I fall in the normal range.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

And, our own religious scripture says that krishna, the omnipotent god on earth, in human form, told Arjuna that all those billions of soldiers had already been technically 'written-off' and Arjuna was only acting as a token instrument to bring about the "killing" of their physical bodies. May be, if Gita is truth embodied, the terrorists were also, similarly, only a "token" or nimitta and all those who died had already been written off in the heavenly ledgers.

If the above theory has wide acceptance, then no killing will be termed as illegitimate, cruel or inhuman. Such killing can be justified by citing some religious scriptures and one can get out of it.

There is definitely a marked difference in death between old age/disease/unforeseen circumstances, and deliberate killing.

 

[zebra16]

Therefore, while at the mundane level all of us will feel for the children who were mercilessly killed by the terrorists, the truth is that there is no "compassionate god" as sought to be advertised by religions. God, in his form as Death, is an impartial judge. And, our own religious scripture says that krishna, the omnipotent god on earth, in human form, told Arjuna that all those billions of soldiers had already been technically 'written-off' and Arjuna was only acting as a token instrument to bring about the "killing" of their physical bodies. May be, if Gita is truth embodied, the terrorists were also, similarly, only a "token" or nimitta and all those who died had already been written off in the heavenly ledgers.

Hence, there is no need to be overly emotional on this issue, I think.

Sri Sangom Sir,

Regarding the high-lighted portion of your message.

What could be the reason for probable existence of token instrument (in the theory of karma), in the case of MB, Arjuna. The *written off* can probably be eliminated by means of earth quake, cyclones,lightening, tsunami etc. etc. Death in case of some come by
natural means and in the hands of humans, like terrorists, war etc. in some other cases.

 

[Kooram narayanan]

This question will always arise with everybody. Nobody can predict, even the present method adapted by veteran josiar too can not predict such fatal news. Certainly it will make blind on the eyes of josiar . Every action has its own reaction . Similarly, the act of killing done on all the so called kids in this Janma the same Jeevan, the so called kids, were committed similar killings in their previous Janma. We should accept this and then we will compromise ourselves . We are responsible for all of our actions either good deeds or misdeeds. The result is totally depending on our action. We can not blame others.

 

[sangom]

If the above theory has wide acceptance, then no killing will be termed as illegitimate, cruel or inhuman. Such killing can be justified by citing some religious scriptures and one can get out of it.

There is definitely a marked difference in death between old age/disease/unforeseen circumstances, and deliberate killing.

This theory is not accepted by our Constitution of India nor by our Criminal Laws; they apply to this world only and do not attempt to go beyond it.

But despite all our efforts (or the lack thereof) such massacres happen throughout the world, do they not? Why do these happen?

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,

Regarding the high-lighted portion of your message.

What could be the reason for probable existence of token instrument (in the theory of karma), in the case of MB, Arjuna. The *written off* can probably be eliminated by means of earth quake, cyclones,lightening, tsunami etc. etc. Death in case of some come by
natural means and in the hands of humans, like terrorists, war etc. in some other cases.

Shri Zebra,

That is a mystery which humans have not yet solved. That is all I can say.

 

[tbs]

hi

all the flowers are not giving fruits..its natural mystery too...

 

[P.J.]

Understanding, believing and now Proving. I Have not reached that stage yet. some one said it is complex mathematics. lets simplify.

outcome x = k1y + k2z + c

It is not simple!!!

 

[P.J.]

T. Similarly, the act of killing done on all the so called kids in this Janma the same Jeevan, the so called kids, were committed similar killings in their previous Janma. .

Questionable Assumption!!

 

[renuka]

hi

all the flowers are not giving fruits..its natural mystery too...

many bachelors are not getting married but married men are still getting proposals...its a real mystery too!

 

[tbs]

many bachelors are not getting married but married men are still getting proposals...its a real mystery too!

lol...