Chinese home first aid for stroke

[mahakavi]

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Raghy:

I read all the posts from the nurses on line site. Here is my summary:

Majority of the nurses and nurse technicians favor the use of alcohol wipes (not alcohol based cleaning solutions) and some use soap and water. When they use alcohol wipes they make sure to let the alcohol film dry naturally and then prick. Some of them wipe off the first drop as an extra precaution in case a film of alcohol stayed on the finger tip. The so-called false low BS is due to dilution of the blood sample with residual alcohol staying on the finger tip after wiping with the swab and not waiting to dry. If you use alcohol wipes, wait a few seconds to make sure the alcohol film evaporates completely before pricking and measuring.

Some of the employers permitted the alcohol wipe usage. But I don't know if they were in Australia.


Here is a quote about recommending alcohol wipe (from the nursesonline site)

Apr 28, '07 by PickyRN
Quote from FutureNurse35

The medical surgical textbook that I am using says, alcohol should not be used when taking BG to wipe finger. Soap and water should be used instead.

This was probably written by somebody who hasn't worked in a clinical setting for years, if ever. It is impractical to have each patient wash their hands with soap and water before you check their blood sugar. Most of my patients aren't ambulatory.​

​

Here is another quote from the nursesonline site
"

I would much prefer training the techs to use the alcohol wipe and waiting for it to dry vs expecting them to wash bed bound pts hands with every blood sugar. How about alcohol wipe the finger upon entering room and then setting up machine? This would give it enough time to let it dry, at least with the machines we use at our facility."

Here is another quote: "in my medical assistant program they taught us to use alcohol but let it dry before you stick the finger and to wipe away the first drop of blood."

Conclusion: If you use the alcohol wipe correctly (wipe and wait for the alcohol to dry) then you will not get any false reading either high or low. Incorrect usage will give mainly a false low reading because of dilution of the sample.

Pl do not entertain the thought that the alcohol wipe contains sugar. Absolutely not!​

 

[renuka]

By alcohol swabs I mean those that are clinical products such as sold in a pharmacy in individual sealed packs. They are not "alcohol" --the one you consume. It is a synthetic swatch soaked in isopropyl alcohol sealed in a paper pouch whose inside is aluminized. It is the recommended procedure for skin prick to test bloood glucose. The other procedure is soap and water which is a cumbersome procedure. The swab does not have any sugar/glucose. Even absolute ethanol (95% ethanol--5% water) does not have any glucose in it. But as I said you can use the alcohol swabs sold in the pharmacy without any problem. Ask your pharmacist. Don't soak your finger in beer though, before pricking it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!! I am getting High but just reading this.
What's this yaar..every medical personnel knows or for the matter even the bar tender knows that alcohol is just a BROAD CLASSIFICATION.

No one is drinking METHANOL and no one is using ETHANOL for surface disinfection purposes.!!LOL

 

[sarang]

Methanol or benzene or some other industrial alcohol mixed with country liquor is the major cause of bulk drink related death and blindness in tamilnadu and in southern states.

No one is drinking METHANOL and no one is using ETHANOL for surface disinfection purposes.!!LOL

 

[renuka]

Methanol or benzene or some other industrial alcohol mixed with country liquor is the major cause of bulk drink related death and blindness in tamilnadu and in southern states.

I am aware..even out here before it used to be drunk and people had gone blind.It is called Samsu Haram here.
Now everyone drinks only C2H5OH cos they can afford better alcohol.

I was just teasing Mahakavi in that line!!

 

[mahakavi]

LOL!! I am getting High but just reading this.
What's this yaar..every medical personnel knows or for the matter even the bar tender knows that alcohol is just a BROAD CLASSIFICATION.

No one is drinking METHANOL and no one is using ETHANOL for surface disinfection purposes.!!LOL

Some people get "high" on nothing probably without knowing the facts. Think for a moment, why this "obvious" remark was made. It was necessary to make it because such obviousness was not recognized by the very personnel who are supposed to know all the details. Read post #29. I am quoting from that post here. "The sugar content in the alcohol swab will always show an higher BGL". Now are you getting high on that?

 

[renuka]

Read post #29. I am quoting from that post here. "The sugar content in the alcohol swab will always show an higher BGL". Now are you getting high on that?

I have never had hyperglycemia in my life so far..so I have no idea how a SUGAR HIGH feels.

I get what you mean about the alcohol swab thing.
I might want to disagree with Raghy here but I can't be 100% sure cos you see Raghy is also very well informed.
But so far I can't find any evidence to back up the false positive results in a capillary sample of blood taken after an isopropyl swab.

But I got HIGH just seeing how you worded the post to Raghy.I felt Raghy was very professional in his original post about the swab and blood sample even if what he wrote was open to debate.


Mahakavi...Why this Kolaveri,Kolaveri,Kolaveri???

I just came back from a conference today was really hoping to log in TB forum and have fun and guess what??

You made me HIGH!!LOL

Take Care
Good Nite

 

[mahakavi]

I am aware..even out here before it used to be drunk and people had gone blind.It is called Samsu Haram here.
Now everyone drinks only C2H5OH cos they can afford better alcohol.

I was just teasing Mahakavi in that line!!

I got this message in my email inbox. I quote

"---Quote (Originally by sarang)---
Methanol or benzene or some other industrial alcohol mixed with country liquor is the major cause of bulk drink related death and blindness in tamilnadu and in southern states.
---End Quote---
I am aware..even out here before it used to be drunk and people had gone blind.
Now everyone drinks only Methanol cos they can afford better alcohol.

I was just teasing Mahakavi in that line!!""

How come you said initially "Methanol" and posted it? The server worked quicker than you could obviously. Did you change your mind and said C2H5OH later since you got confused between the name and the formula? Just teasing!!!!!!

 

[mahakavi]

I get what you mean about the alcohol swab thing.
I might want to disagree with Raghy here but I can't be 100% sure cos you see Raghy is also very well informed.
But so far I can't find any evidence to back up the false positive results in a capillary sample of blood taken after an isopropyl swab.

But I got HIGH just seeing how you worded the post to Raghy.I felt Raghy was very professional in his original post about the swab and blood sample even if what he wrote was open to debate.


Mahakavi...Why this Kolaveri,Kolaveri,Kolaveri???

I just came back from a conference today was really hoping to log in TB forum and have fun and guess what??

You made me HIGH!!LOL

Take Care
Good Nite

1. Raghy may be a professional. But on what he wrote about getting high BGL values after using alcohol wipe made me explain the technical detail. I can't understand your " ......I can't be 100% sure ...". You can't be sure if isopropyl alcohol contains sugar or not? Pl read all the other subsequent posts I wrote.
2. When basic science is questioned, it is not "kolaveri" that incites you but the welling helplessness at such blatant propagation of misinformation.
3. You wrote, "......even if what he wrote was open to debate." There is no question of debate about an established fact. It was not a theory, for Pete's sake.

Sleep it over!

 

[Raghy]

Some people get "high" on nothing probably without knowing the facts. Think for a moment, why this "obvious" remark was made. It was necessary to make it because such obviousness was not recognized by the very personnel who are supposed to know all the details. Read post #29. I am quoting from that post here. "The sugar content in the alcohol swab will always show an higher BGL". Now are you getting high on that?

Sri. Mahakavi,

Like I said before, I was not out to prove a point. I had made a mistake. I said BGL would show 'High' instead of 'Low'. What is the big deal? You had to come around to quote that to argue with someone else? Well, if you have problem with my post, discuss with me; not with anyone else! Thank you.

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

I might want to disagree with Raghy here but I can't be 100% sure cos you see Raghy is also very well informed.

All the theories aside, one of the patients in Adult Observation Area ( AOA) of the mental health facility in building 19, in PA Hospital, Brisbane actually got high on alcowipes! Her BGL read 0.02. ( very small amount of alcohol. But she was an inpatient for over a week though). So, I am not able to quite accept the theory. Was it psychological? Quite possible too. But, she blew 0.02 was true. We were all amazed to see that, She said she got high on alcowipes!

 

[mahakavi]

Sri. Mahakavi,

Like I said before, I was not out to prove a point. I had made a mistake. I said BGL would show 'High' instead of 'Low'. What is the big deal? You had to come around to quote that to argue with someone else? Well, if you have problem with my post, discuss with me; not with anyone else! Thank you.

Mr. Raghy:
I had already discussed your posts sufficiently with you.
Renuka was poking fun at my post when I stated the obvious. She came in a hurry, felt compelled to show her presence with a quick remark and left. She also said you were well-informed. You may be in other matters but not on the subject under discussion. So I had to explain to her why I made that remark. If you just explain in plain language people miss it. So I had to make the quote. It was not intended to be a dig at you. But the misinformation had to be quashed. So I used that quote.

As for "big deal", now you have made another mistake in your corrected statement. Even if you meant to say "low" instead of "high" your remark that "...the sugar content in the alcohol swab....." is still wrong. If there is sugar in the alcohol swab it should give a higher value not lower value for the BGL. Even if the value is a false low (when the testing is done improperly) it is caused by the dilution I mentioned and also by the other nurse technicians in the website you yourself provided. Let us reassure ourselves once more----there is no sugar in the alcohol swab.

I hope you read all my posts. I spend considerable amount of time in gathering all the information to educate you and the other nurses who may have that erroneous concept. I hope my effort is not in vain.

 

[mahakavi]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.



All the theories aside, one of the patients in Adult Observation Area ( AOA) of the mental health facility in building 19, in PA Hospital, Brisbane actually got high on alcowipes! Her BGL read 0.02. ( very small amount of alcohol. But she was an inpatient for over a week though). So, I am not able to quite accept the theory. Was it psychological? Quite possible too. But, she blew 0.02 was true. We were all amazed to see that, She said she got high on alcowipes!

You mean a wipe with a swab blew her readings to 0.02 just like that? That is ridiculous. To say she was psyched out is a travesty. She probably consumed a pint of vodka without anybody's knowledge (you say she is a mental patient anyway) similar to the roast chicken incident you mentioned earlier (which resulted in a sky-high reading). Excessive alcohol imbibing would wreak havoc with the body's ability to control the blood glucose level. Did it occur to you or anyone else that you should have examined her personal space for a hidden bottle soon after such a low reading (instead of wondering how this little swab could do it)?

 

[mahakavi]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.



All the theories aside, one of the patients in Adult Observation Area ( AOA) of the mental health facility in building 19, in PA Hospital, Brisbane actually got high on alcowipes! Her BGL read 0.02. ( very small amount of alcohol. But she was an inpatient for over a week though). So, I am not able to quite accept the theory. Was it psychological? Quite possible too. But, she blew 0.02 was true. We were all amazed to see that, She said she got high on alcowipes!

I thought you said earlier that Queensland prohibits the use of alcohol wipes in testing BGL. How come in this case it was permitted?

 

[Raghy]

Mr. Raghy:
I had already discussed your posts sufficiently with you.
Renuka was poking fun at my post when I stated the obvious. She came in a hurry, felt compelled to show her presence with a quick remark and left. She also said you were well-informed. You may be in other matters but not on the subject under discussion. So I had to explain to her why I made that remark. If you just explain in plain language people miss it. So I had to make the quote. It was not intended to be a dig at you. But the misinformation had to be quashed. So I used that quote.

As for "big deal", now you have made another mistake in your corrected statement. Even if you meant to say "low" instead of "high" your remark that "...the sugar content in the alcohol swab....." is still wrong. If there is sugar in the alcohol swab it should give a higher value not lower value for the BGL. Even if the value is a false low (when the testing is done improperly) it is caused by the dilution I mentioned and also by the other nurse technicians in the website your yourself provided. Let us reassure ourselves once more----there is no sugar in the alcohol swab.

I hope you read all my posts. I spend considerable amount of time in gathering all the information to educate you and the other nurses who may have that erroneous concept. I hope my effort is not in vain.

I have been very polite with you. I will not accept you using my knowledge or the lack of it to debate with an other member without my consent. I don't care aout the theory. I actually saw and blwn someone high on alcowipes! I just explained that in one of my messages.

Thanks for your attempt to educate me. But I already said, I am bound my protocols and policies in the use of alcowipes; did you not read that? Also I high lighted the case of someone blwing high on alcohol on alcowipes; did you not read that? If you are willing to respect my messages, your messages will be respected too. By the way, when I say I observed increase in BGL readings, I did. There is no 'if' or 'but'. The venue was 'Trinder Park Nursing Home', Woodridge, Queensland. The incident occured in April 2007; I don't know what the heck they were using in that facility. BGL read high. I have no reason to bluff here. I was just a student then. Like I said before, I have no point to prove... but don't use my posts to put down others. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

I thought you said earlier that Queensland prohibits the use of alcohol wipes in testing BGL. How come in this case it was permitted?

This is a mental health facility. Queensland health prohibits alcowipes only in the case of cleaning before checking BGL. It's freely used for wiping down the beds, cleaning the area.. etc, Not very hard to get. This girl had Bi-Polar issue.. non stop demands,, alcowipes were given to her...

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

You mean a wipe with a swab blew her readings to 0.02 just like that? That is ridiculous. To say she was psyched out is a travesty. She probably consumed a pint of vodka without anybody's knowledge (you say she is a mental patient anyway) similar to the roast chicken incident you mentioned earlier (which resulted in a sky-high reading). Excessive alcohol imbibing would wreak havoc with the body's ability to control the blood glucose level. Did it occur to you or anyone else that you should have examined her personal space for a hidden bottle soon after such a low reading (instead of wondering how this little swab could do it)?

I may not be interested in discussing with you in future, please. Kindly pardon me. Thank you.

 

[mahakavi]

I have been very polite with you. I will not accept you using my knowledge or the lack of it to debate with an other member without my consent. I don't care aout the theory. I actually saw and blwn someone high on alcowipes! I just explained that in one of my messages.

Thanks for your attempt to educate me. But I already said, I am bound my protocols and policies in the use of alcowipes; did you not read that? Also I high lighted the case of someone blwing high on alcohol on alcowipes; did you not read that? If you are willing to respect my messages, your messages will be respected too. By the way, when I say I observed increase in BGL readings, I did. There is no 'if' or 'but'. The venue was 'Trinder Park Nursing Home', Woodridge, Queensland. The incident occured in April 2007; I don't know what the heck they were using in that facility. BGL read high. I have no reason to bluff here. I was just a student then. Like I said before, I have no point to prove... but don't use my posts to put down others. Thank you.

Cheers!

As I said before I am not asking you to change your protocols. I was only educating you and others like you. If you don't want to be educated that is fine with me. I won't "educate" you in the future. But in this forum if an obvious misstatement is made I have an obligation to correct it when I am here.

Renuka said you were "well-informed". I had to take exception to that remark. You did not send me a personal email marked "confidential" about your knowledge.This is a public forum and your messages posted here are not confidential. Anybody could use them in this thread or another to prove a point. I don't need your consent for that. If you made a mistake (which will mislead others) you should have deleted all those posts which contained the mistake. If you did that and then if I quoted the deleted post you can disagree with my remark.

If you take offense at my remark, especially when I said it is not a personal attack on you, it is your problem, not mine.

PS: What you fail to understand is this. You are getting angry for nothing. I am not disputing the readings you measured. I am only explaining why or how.

 

[mahakavi]

This is a mental health facility. Queensland health prohibits alcowipes only in the case of cleaning before checking BGL. It's freely used for wiping down the beds, cleaning the area.. etc, Not very hard to get. This girl had Bi-Polar issue.. non stop demands,, alcowipes were given to her...

Cheers!

Why would Queensland Health be that remiss in keeping a supply of these wipes within easy reach of a mental patient? One single wipe has less than a milliliter of isopropyl alcohol. Did she use hundreds of such wipes? Small alcohol wipes are used to clean large areas of the bed? If I were the hospital administrator there I would have fired the staff who were responsible to give such items to a mental patient. Where is the professional integrity of the staff? Hmmmmm!

The following is a quote from your post (#60)
"All the theories aside, one of the patients in Adult Observation Area ( AOA) of the [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]mental [/FONT][FONT=inherit !important]health[/FONT][/FONT] facility in building 19, in PA Hospital, Brisbane actually got high on alcowipes! Her BGL read 0.02. ( very small amount of alcohol. But she was an [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]inpatient[/FONT][/FONT] for over a week though). So, I am not able to quite accept the theory....."

You said earlier (post #60) that it is a very small amount of alcohol. Now you say the wipes were given to her (maybe in a large number?) Still my hypothesis that she might have helped herself with a pint of vodka stands to explain the 0.02 BGL. Even if you are a mental patient, it is a Herculean task to tear each wipe one by one and lick it over a period of time. Incredulous indeed!

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Mahakavi,

Renuka said you were "well-informed". I had to take exception to that remark. You did not send me a personal email marked "confidential" about your knowledge.This is a public forum and your messages posted here are not confidential. Anybody could use them in this thread or another to prove a point. I don't need your consent for that. If you made a mistake (which will mislead others) you should have deleted all those posts which contained the mistake. If you did that and then if I quoted the deleted post you can disagree with my remark.

When Renuka said I was well informed, she was right. She knows I am on the floor, early in the morning at 0700 or earlier in the morning checking BGL for patients /residents. As a parctising physician, Sowbagyavathy Renuka or as a nurse myself are not too concerned about theories and chemistry side of what happens. as a nurse when I say BGL reading goes up, as a doctor she has no problem accepting my words. That is the respect she imparts to to me as a nurse; professionally I understand that and I never ever say something to her made up by me.

You don't seem to understand, you are playing with the trust placed by the doctor on his/her nurse here. Renuka backs me up 100% because I am a nurse. I will not fail Renuka 100% since she is the Doctor. We work like hand and gloves.

I did not make a mistake, so, I don't have to delete any of my messages. Renuka read my message, she knows as a nurse I have ethics and protocols to follow, will take my messages 100% true as they are. Even if her theory says otherwise, she will never question me as a nurse. My observations on the floor is the Gospel for her; her judgements in treartments are Gospel for me. I request you kindly uinderstyand that. I don't give a s**t about about a debate in this little forum. Renuka is a Doctor and I am a Nurse; our relationship as a Doctor and Nurse goes very far and very deep.

I did not say your message is a personal attack towards me. People have used "F" word against me without attracting any reaction. So, i don't care. I was not gettiong angry before. But when someone comes in between a Doctor and a Nurse, better watch it... That is considered as an attack. I consider your message as an attack.

So, renuka was right. She was right to accept my message as the word of Gospel.

If you don't like it, that is your problem. I suggest, you keep your theories, analysis to yourself. I am the nurse of the floor at 0600 Hrs in the morning; if I bull shit my observations, other nurses will report me. Renuka often times could be the Ward Call for me, I woould summon when an emergency happens. I know all the observation measurements she wants; she would be acting on my report, she would not be measuring them again because she trusts me as a nurse 100%.

When I said BGL read higher, that is the Gospel for her. She will take it 100% on board. She did not trust it because it is from a veteran member in the forum; she trusted it because it came from Raghy Raman RN.

So, I suggest, you kindly take youir debates and arguments elsewhere, please. Kindly don't bring it between Dr.Renuka Karthikeyan and Raghy Raman RN, please. Thank you. If you like, you may like to write a peer reviewed paper on thisd subject and we would read it when we are not too busy, please. Thank you. As per telling me what I should do in the forum, what I should delete and what I should post is the business handled by one gentleman by the name Sri. Praveen. I don't care if this is a public forum; if you are going to use any of my messages to put down others, you better consult me first. My messages may belong to the forum; but before you take ownership, I do have a say over the matter. Most often than not my messages are very polite. The whole forum would be suprised to see this kind of a message from me! I hope I made my point clear.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Why would Queensland Health be that remiss in keeping a supply of these wipes within easy reach of a mental patient? One single wipe has less than a milliliter of isopropyl alcohol. Did she use hundreds of such wipes? Small alcohol wipes are used to clean large areas of the bed? If I were the hospital administrator there I would have fired the staff who were responsible to give such items to a mental patient. Where is the professional integrity of the staff? Hmmmmm!

The following is a quote from your post (#60)
"All the theories aside, one of the patients in Adult Observation Area ( AOA) of the [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]mental [/FONT][FONT=inherit !important]health[/FONT][/FONT] facility in building 19, in PA Hospital, Brisbane actually got high on alcowipes! Her BGL read 0.02. ( very small amount of alcohol. But she was an [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]inpatient[/FONT][/FONT] for over a week though). So, I am not able to quite accept the theory....."

You said earlier (post #60) that it is a very small amount of alcohol. Now you say the wipes were given to her (maybe in a large number?) Still my hypothesis that she might have helped herself with a pint of vodka stands to explain the 0.02 BGL. Even if you are a mental patient, it is a Herculean task to tear each wipe one by one and lick it over a period of time. Incredulous indeed!

Mahakavi, I don't give a damn if you don't belive me. What I say is true. I have not lied in 2,600 plus posts; I don't have to start now. You don't believe me? I don't care!

 

[mahakavi]

<edited>
If there is/was an issue, please report it and as soon as i am online i will check and do the needful.
- Praveen

made some corrections.

 

[Raghy]

Mahakavi, not only that, I said I don't give a damn too. Why don't you add that too?

edited and replaced the word - praveen

 

[Raghy]

Moderator:
Here is another message from the same poster using four letter words.
Pl take appropriate action. Such indecent remarks do not belong in our respectable forum.

I stand by what I said. When you call me a 'liar' indirectly by suspecting my messages, I have enough iron in me to directly say I don't give a shit.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Mahakavi,
The forum rule is to mark "report post" button identified with a triangle button. Or you can send a PM to Praveen.
It is very rude to post the massage in a public forum.
Mr. Raghy is a respected member of this forum, he deserves some respect from you.

 

[mahakavi]

Mahakavi, I don't give a shit if you don't belive me. What I say is true. I have not lied in 2,600 plus posts; I don't have to start now. You don't believe me? I don't care!

I never said I do not believe you. You made tests and you made observations. But you were doing it wrong (if the BGL was low when using alcohol wipes to clean, it is due to leaving a film of alcohol on the finger tip before pricking with a needle). If you reported an abnormally low or high value to the doctor the doctor should personally be there and ask you to repeat that test again while he/she is watching. Trusting is one thing but making sure the trust is not misplaced is another. If a nurse tech is doing a test wrongly for ages that does not give him/her the right to claim "I am right, because I have been doing this way for so long".