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Chinese Army Flops in India

Iyest

Active member
From NewsWeek.

The Chinese Army Flops in India. What Will Xi Do Next? | Opinion
GORDON G. CHANG , AUTHOR, COMMENTATOR, LAWYER

In China, "another brutal purge" is coming.

Ruler Xi Jinping, already roiling the Communist Party with a "rectification" campaign and mass persecution of foes, has risked his future with recent high-profile incursions into Indian-controlled territory.

Unfortunately for Xi, he is the "architect" of these aggressive moves into India and his People's Liberation Army (PLA) has unexpectedly flopped.

The Chinese army's failures on the Indian border will have consequences. As an initial matter, they give Xi an excuse to pick up the pace of replacing adversaries in the armed forces with loyal elements. Heads, therefore, will roll.

More important, the failures motivate China's aggressive ruler—who as chairman of the Party's Central Military Commission, is the leader of the PLA—to launch another offensive against Indian positions.

Beginning in early May, Chinese forces advanced south of the Line of Actual Control, the temporary border between the two giants, principally in three separate areas in Ladakh, high in the Himalayas. The boundary is not well-defined, and for years Chinese troops trespassed into Indian-controlled territory, especially after Xi became Party general secretary in November 2012.

The May incursions took New Delhi by surprise. As Cleo Paskal of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies tells Newsweek, Moscow in April had assured India that large-scale Chinese maneuvers in its Tibet Autonomous Region were not preparations for a move below the Line.

China also took India by surprise on June 15 in the Galwan Valley, the northernmost of the three areas of incursion. In a premediated move, Chinese troops killed 20 Indian soldiers. It was the first deadly confrontation between the two giants in 45 years.

Beijing is accustomed to getting its way in disputed territory, especially because Indian leaders and soldiers, "psychologically paralyzed" by their loss in the 1962 border war with China, played only defense.

Paralyzed no more. China is thought to have suffered at least 43 deaths in the Galwan clash. Paskal says the number of Chinese killed could exceed 60. Indian troops fought back ferociously. Beijing won't admit the extent of the debacle.

Then, beginning late last month, for the first time in a half-century, India carried out an offensive against China, taking back high ground the Chinese recently grabbed. China's forces were surprised when Indian troops mounted their attempt to retake strategic high points. Stunned Chinese soldiers retreated.

China's subsequent efforts to counter the Indian moves proved ineffective. At least for the moment, India's troops, in the southernmost of the three areas of conflict, are in control of territory once in Chinese hands.

Can the Dragon fight? The Ground Force of the People's Liberation Army can move against undefended targets, as a series of incursions south of the Line of Actual Control demonstrate, but it is not clear how effective it is in battle.

The Ground Force does not have a track record of success in contested situations. Its last major engagement was in 1979 when, in the effort to "teach Vietnam a lesson," the Chinese launched what they called a "defensive counterattack" into Vietnamese territory and, in the process, were repelled and humiliated by their much smaller neighbor.

Now, after decades of an unprecedented modernization effort, the Ground Force is far better equipped and trained, but it is apparently not much more effective on the battlefield.

India is not giving the invaders the opportunity to improve. Both sides have just accused the other of violating decades-old rules of engagement by firing warning shots. It appears, however, the Chinese are the ones closer to the truth: India's troops are displaying newfound boldness.

India has effectively ditched these rules intended to limit casualties. "The game has changed," Paskal told me. "You can say the Indians are more aggressive or more aggressively defensive, but they are in fact bolder and better."

We are going to learn more about Chinese capabilities soon. The setback in the Himalayas poses problems for Xi, which means it poses a problem for everyone else. Jayadeva Ranade, a former senior Indian intelligence official and now head of the New Delhi-based Centre for China Analysis and Strategy, said Xi needs "a victory" and could force further conflict in Ladakh.

In that conflict, the Chinese, Richard Fisher of the Virginia-based International Assessment and Strategy Center tells Newsweek, could roll out "joint mechanized warfare for which they have been preparing for 30 years."

Given the rapid buildup of Indian forces and their high state of readiness, Xi is not assured of the success that Ranade believes he craves and needs—especially because India's army has brought mechanized vehicles of its own to Ladakh.

In China's highly politicized system, the setbacks in Ladakh cannot be perceived as Xi's fault, so he will almost surely purge elements of the military. "PLA leaders begin to see little choice but to undertake offensive military actions to avoid becoming a victim of Xi's internal terror," Fisher says.

"What we are learning in 2020," Fisher notes, "is that Xi wants victories, and as the PLA is judged to have reached requisite levels of strength by rearming and reorganization, Xi is increasingly willing to use the military."

China's leader has shown he is good at political mobilization of the army and that he can spend large sums on military equipment. He has also perfected the art of intimidating other countries.

Xi Jinping, however, has yet to show his military, in a fight, is worth a damn.

Other nations will take notice that China's military is deficient. Why is the PLA less than the sum of its parts? It can be excessive political control of army operations—a problem in all communist militaries—or something else. Yet the failure to push around the Indian military means Xi's ability to intimidate anyone is much reduced.

Unfortunately, it looks like China's leader, who had looked invincible, now has something to prove. As a result, he appears absolutely determined to make his point by launching another attempt to break India apart.



https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-army-f ... on-1531170


















































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Iyest

Active member
There is a very subtle insinuation by vested interests both within and outside the country that India needs external support to successfully deal with China.

One major success in settling this issue will be a demonstration that India can handle China by itself. That would be a huge gain for India's international standing.

We have certainly come a long way since the debacle of 1962.
 

Iyest

Active member
Yes......but the fact may be that we still haven’t regained our lost land in Depsand, Pangong Tso, Hotsprings & Galwan.
The areas lost in May were not our land but disputed territory. Rechin La and Rezang La are now controlled by the Indian Army for the first time since 1962. The Chinese contol Fingers 4 through 8 in Pangong Tso but are now surrounded by the IA controlling the heights and watching them closely. Notwithstanding media reports, it may be that India does not want a return to the April status quo since we are now in a position of advantage compared to April.
 

Iyest

Active member
Indian Army Has Broken The US Myth About China Being An “Unbeatable Martial Monolith

Excerpts:


After the Pentagon’s annual report on China declared the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) as “the largest navy in the world“ and highlighted its increasing capabilities, the former director of National Security Council Secretariat believes that such forecasts and warnings did not affect Indian decision to counter Chinese belligerence in Ladakh.

Unlike the US, Indian Forces have faced the Chinese PLA head-on without undermining its strength. Kartha emphasised that the Indian Armed Forces displayed resolution in defence by recognising that they are confronting a powerful adversary which they once thought could be befriended.

This was recently demonstrated when a clash broke out between the Indian and Chinese troops on the night of August 29. The Indian Army thwarted PLA’s attempt to unilaterally change the facts on the ground at the southern bank of Pangong Tso in eastern Ladakh.

“Indian troops pre-empted this PLA activity on the Southern Bank of Pangong Tso Lake, undertook measures to strengthen our positions and thwart Chinese intentions to unilaterally change facts on the ground,” said Colonel Aman Anand (PRO, Indian Army).

Kartha concluded saying that analysts need to break down the myth of an indomitable China, without dismissing the very real threat that it is today.





 

Iyest

Active member
India shows the way in checkmating a rampaging China

Indian military experts believe that the taking of Spanggur Gap is seen as a humiliation by the PLA, which set off frantic reactions from China — eight press statements in the 12 hours after the news broke!

Military observers say that given the shocker of losing Spanggur Gap and occupation of Chushul heights, the failure of making a diplomatic headway and the onset of terrible winters, some PLA moves to restore its honour before mid-November could be expected.

 

Iyest

Active member
Perhaps the other side of the coin......

These articles speak volume....
These articles are a few months old and discuss the early months of the intrusion in April and May.

The Fingers were never Indian and such verbiage is sadly used by anti national elements to discredit the government and somehow dislodge Modi even at the cost of national unity. Until April India was able to patrol east until Finger 8 and China patrolled west till Finger 1. This was how the disputed area was handled by both nations. Further our jawans had to patrol on foot while China stealthily built a road until Finger 4 in 1998 when India was preoccupied in Kargil. To put it accurately, our patrolling beyond Finger 4 has come to an end since May.
 

Iyest

Active member
How does New Delhi plan to retake lost territory?

Perhaps there may be confusing claims because, they would have decided not to reveal the exact nature of the situation on the LAC

There may be obfuscation.

People like Menon will not be satisfied until our plans are fully revealed and Ravi Shastri is engaged to provide live commentary on our military actions.

A post follows on Menon and his blatant anti India campaign in the US.
 

Iyest

Active member
Former NSA Shivshankar Menon instigates the US against the Modi government. And this fellow was in charge of our National Security until recently! Article 370 was abrogated by an act of Parliament and signed with the President’s consent. But such trifles don’t matter to this self proclaimed champion of democracy. It is a miracle that India has survived such characters.


NEW DELHI: Former national security adviser (NSA) Shivshankar Menon has alleged that US President Donald Trump has given “the Modi government a free pass on its controversial domestic agenda” and that this has drawn sharp reactions from the Democrats, threatening the bipartisanship consensus in the US on strengthening ties with India.

In an article written in American magazine Foreign Affairs ahead of the US presidential election, Menon wrote, “Under Modi, India has excluded Muslim immigrants from the path to citizenship and limited the autonomy of the Muslim-majority Jammu and Kashmir region. Uninterested in human rights and democracy, Trump has given the Modi government a free pass on its controversial domestic agenda.”

....

Menon went on to claim that it has largely been the Democrats, including Indian American members of Congress, such as Pramila Jayapal of Washington State and Ro Khanna of California, who have expressed public disquiet about some of Modi’s domestic policies. “The bipartisan consensus in the United States on strengthening ties with India is in danger,” the former NSA alleged.

 

Iyest

Active member
China miscalculated India resolve, needs exit strategy now, says former Ladakh corps commander.


The retired general openly talks about the Indian army occupying new territory. President Xitler and The Thieves of Beijing are now in a fix about how to withdraw without losing face.

Excerpts:

“Describing the situation at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh as “not only serious but extremely sensitive”, the retired lieutenant general, who also commanded a division at the McMohan line in the northeast, said that while the standoff is still on, India is in a much better position now in both banks of the Pangong Tso, following the military manoeuvres at the end of August.

“I think the Chinese always felt and I think they sold it to themselves that Indians would be weak and they can be pushed around. Now they have realised that Indians are not a pushover,” Lt Gen Pannu told ThePrint. “They should have made these calculations earlier before they started this operation in the month of May itself. They should have known that India is not a pushover, but I think they are still living with the 1962 syndrome.”

Lt Gen Pannu said the ball is in China’s court to disengage. “When I say the ball is in China’s court, it means that they are the ones who initiated the aggression and hence it is their move to disengage,” he added.

He said India’s quid pro quo, known in military circles as QPQ, under which it has occupied certain territory (southern bank), is making China “absolutely uncomfortable” and they are surprised about it.

“But still the Chinese will have to play ball … China will have to come out with an exit strategy… It should be China which should pick up the call and initiate a dialogue,” he said talking about leadership level parleys.

“If both do not back off, either you are headed into a standoff which is going to be a longish standoff or you are going to fight a war … If they (China) end up fighting a war, it goes contrary to their own strategy of winning a war without fighting,” he said.


 

Iyest

Active member
Now a professor of Chinese affairs at JNU(!!) is saying the myth of China's superiority has been busted.

After the Pentagon's annual report on China declared the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) as "the largest navy in the world" and highlighted its increasing capabilities, the former Director of National Security Council Secretariat of India, Tara Kartha observed that such forecasts and warnings did not affect Indian decision to counter Chinese belligerence in Ladakh.

"For India, warnings of Chinese aggressiveness were 'superfluous' given the ongoing conflict. Forecasts of superior Chinese power did not affect Delhi's decision to meet the threat head-on, something that other countries need to acknowledge. China is certainly a power to reckon with, but it is not quite the dragon that the Pentagon or Beijing paints it to be," Kartha quipped.

"There was this argument that India being a $2-trillion economy and China being five times that meant that China had a major advantage. They have a much stronger military force, much bigger economy, bigger military spending etc so India is no match for China - that myth has been busted. Concerted action on the part of India has yielded results," said Srikanth Kondapalli, Chinese affairs professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University.


 

Iyest

Active member
-----> Public may believe that such statement are to appease the mass with lip service and will not lost long


Public has more sense than the lefties and the intellectuals. They can read between the lines. The DM is saying that Gosthana and POK are fair game for the IA in case China decides to go for an all out conflict. That is also where China has invested heavily in its Belt Road Initiative. The warning has surely been heard in Beijing by now.

-----> Public hope this Govt won’t allow the enemies to occupy our soil.

Public knows that 38000 sq km has been under Chinese occupation since the time of Nehru.
This government made the DM of China request a meeting with Raksha Mantri three times before it was granted. They have thousands of troops who would be sitting ducks if the IA decide to attack from the heights in the event of war.
 
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