Upanayanam

[guruvayurappan]

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dear mahakavi !
nice. i am called as appa by dils as well there sisters.i am uncle to brothers of my dil
the very first day how you are called will continue .when the DIL call MIL athai that will continue.
If they show affection.let them call by any name.nowadays MIL are always obedient lady (they were listening to their MIL and now listening to DIL).it is like our office atmosphere .in olden days subordinate will do all work and nowadays officer is doing all the work.the officer was the old subordinate &got promoted.
guruvayurappan

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Siva Sir and Guru Sir,

I thought you will easily understand what my cousin sister told me!! It means,
"By calling me ammA with love, my would-be d.i.l kept me in a sealed bottle and I can never escape from her!!" :lock1:

PS: How can Siva Sir be cross with me? He sent me jilEbis and I sent him 'muLLu murukku'!!

 

[Raji Ram]

........ 'muthusaram' is thengulal? ................

NO. It is muLLu muRukku.

Here is a nice recipe: Muthusaram/Mullu Murukku - recipes are on Petitchef

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Dear Siva Sir and Guru Sir,

I thought you will easily understand what my cousin sister told me!! It means,
"By calling me ammA with love, my would-be d.i.l kept me in a sealed bottle and I can never escape from her!!" :lock1:

PS: How can Siva Sir be cross with me? He sent me jilEbis and I sent him 'muLLu murukku'!!

Intha cousin matter innum kooda sariyaa puriyala. But atha vittuduvom.
I would be happy if you sent the mullu murukku by post to me! Just showing the picture tempts me but I can not have it!:wave:

 

[Haridasa Siva]

NO. It is muLLu muRukku.

Here is a nice recipe: Muthusaram/Mullu Murukku - recipes are on Petitchef

Muthusaram and mullu murukku are the same? Appo en 2 peru? ethuvum saapida kediakkalannum pothu athukku enna peru irunthaa enaa??!! ray2:

 

[mahakavi]

>>I don't think anyone calls their MIL Amma isn't it?<<

I should have qualified my statement. That was the ThanjAvUr/KumbakONam/Mayavaram custom for the DIL to call her MIL "ammA". Her own mother is the real ammA while the MIL is honorary ammA. When both are present together she knows how to distinguish the calls. She calls her own mother in singular form (nee) while the MIL gets "neengaL" treatment. In ThanjAvUr district the term "aththai" is very specific and reserved only for father's sister (like nARkAli for chair) in the brahmin community.

Only in the nonbrahmin community the DIL called her MIL as "aththai"

 

[Raji Ram]

1. Muthusaram and mullu murukku are the same? Appo en 2 peru?
2. ethuvum saapida kediakkalannum pothu athukku enna peru irunthaa enaa??!! ray2:

1. Some people are very poetic (like us?!) So they refer to the spikes on the murukku as muththu - hence muththusaram!

2. Hmmmmmmmmmm. PAvam!! :hungry: ( Y don't you venture with the recipe given? )

 

[sarang]

How men call their father-mother-in-laws? I do call them appa and amma.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Ribbon = NAdA = Tape = ?? So many names for one kind of savory!

Once my music student cum friend who teaches Carnatic music told me 'நான் நேத்திக்கு நெறைய TAPE பண்ணினேன்!

(nAn nEththikku neraiya 'tape' paNNinEn!) and I asked her what all songs she recorded!! Then I got the explanation

that she prepared 'tape murukku'! :hungry:

ரிப்பனை தலைக்கு கட்டிக்க முடியாது, நாடாவை எலாஸ்டிக் போன உள்ளாடைக்கு உபயோகபடுத்த முடியாது. "Tape" ai வாயில் போட்டால் கரகரப்ரியா ராகம் கேட்காது; சத்தம் தான் வரும் அதுவும் பல் இருதால்.

 

[Raji Ram]

ரிப்பனை தலைக்கு கட்டிக்க முடியாது, ...............

விடுகதை:

இது 'ரிப்பன்'; ஆனால் தலைக்குக் கட்டிக்க முடியாது!

இதுவே நாடா; ஆனால் உள்ளாடைக்கு உபயோகப்படுத்த முடியாது!

இதுவே "Tape"; ஆனால் கரகரப்ரியா ராகம் கேட்காது; கரகரச் சத்தம் வரும் - பல் இருந்தால்!

'அது என்ன?'

 

[Raji Ram]

How men call their father-mother-in-laws? I do call them appa and amma.

In our family circle, except one of my cousin brothers, all others call their parents-in-law as either uncle - aunty or mAmA - mAmi.

 

[mahakavi]

There is a joke about a Thamizh person who became an IAS officer and was posted to Bihar. He was asked to learn elementary Hindi so that he can converse with lower level government servants like the chaprasi. He learnt the words like AvO, idhar, tum, hum etc. After a while his colleague officer asked him how he would call the chaprasi to come to him. He said "chaprasi , tum idhar AvO". "Very good" said the colleague "what would you say to tell the chaprasi to 'go there' towards the door". The Thamizh officer did not learn the Hindi equivalents for those few words. He immediately went to the doorway and said "chaprasi, tum idhar AvO".

Likewise you don't have to call the parents-in-law by any name. I would go near them and talk to them.

 

[sudeshwer]

Few years back I attended Kashmir Pandit(brahmin) boy's thread ceremony. Kashmir Pandits still conduct thread ceremony for four days very religiously, particularly, they light a lamp on first day and they ensure that lamp lights all the four days throughout day and night. There are some communities in North India, who do thread ceremony one day before marriage; I wonder if such boys keep thread on their body thereafter. Tamil Brahmins keep the punal on their body whether they do sandhyavandanam or not but, unfortunately, Many Tamil Brahmins girls remove the thali often without understanding its importance

 

[sudeshwer]

No.137, Mr Mahakavi - going through yr joke, I want to share my experience. the very first day when I reached North India(Delhi), as usual I only little bit of hindi. One day I went to buy woodden blank to a shop and pointing out one blank, I asked the shopowner the cost of the ladiki (girl) instead of lakkad. In another incident, we were about 4/5 persons in a group where there was one bengali. The servant called us all with 'Ji' whereas when he addressed the bengali gentleman as 'Banerji' Mr Banerji got wild.

 

[mahakavi]

>>Tamil Brahmins keep the punal on their body whether they do sandhyavandanam or not but, unfortunately, Many Tamil Brahmins girls remove the thali often without understanding its importance<<

Don't count on it! We don't know if everybody keeps the pUNUl on their body, especially those who live in the US, due to various extenuating circumstances. However, the removal of thAli is something considered not kosher by orthodox people because only when women get widowed they remove the thAli first. They used to disfigure them by shaving their head too in olden days which has stopped, fortunately, for several decades now. While it is shocking you have to get used to the habit of removing thAli. Two points in this regard.

1. At the time of wedding the groom ties only the yellow thread with the mAngalyam attached to it. Many women these days then remove the thread and attach the mAngalyam to a gold chain and wear it. I wonder why?--Just to avoid the rubbing of the thread against the neck? The rubbing of the gold chain is OK? So once the thread is removed then it does not matter if it is removed temporarily or permanently.
2. In very old days there was no thAli, be it in brahmin or other households. In brahmin households there was pANigrahanam whereby the bride's father places the hand of the bride in the palm of the groom sprinkles water on both hands to the accompaniment of mantram. In sItA's wedding that is what King Janaka does saying "iyam sItA, mama sutA...sahadharmacari tava....". Even during ANDAL's period (9th century CE) there was no thAli. In the VAraNamAyiram decad (nAcciyAr tirumozhi) ANDAL describes her dream of getting married to nAraNan nambi. Here is the sequence of events.

ANDAL was not unaware of all the specifics of wedding ceremonies practiced in her time. Thus the ten songs in the VAraNamAyiram thirumozhi describe the ceremonies in proper order. First the arrival of the bridegroom, on the stage for betrothal, is heralded (nAcciyAr thirumozhi 6.1). Then the bridegroom is seated for the betrothal ceremony and the date for the wedding is fixed (6.2) under the canopy. The elders bless the wedding and the bride is properly decorated (6.3). Next the bridegroom coming into bride’s house followed by rakshAbandanam (6.4) is described. Then some young maidens of the bride’s party bring brightly lit lamps in their hands and approach the bridegroom (6.5). These steps are the preliminaries leading to pANigrahaNam. The bridegroom then grabs the hand of the bride (6.6) tightly and both of them go around the fire taking seven steps (6.7) which then leads to ammi midittal (6.8) followed by offering puffed rice to the fire (6.9). The final step is the ablution of the bride and groom with holy water (6.10).

So where is the thAli? The hand-holding is the binding contract, no need for thAli or ring. Don't ask me what happens when a young adult man and woman hold hands---whether it is a contract. Not at all! Anything is fair game these days. No need for a contract and if at all there is one it is easy to break. In the muslim world it is just talAq, talAq, talAq. That is it!

 

[mahakavi]

No.137, Mr Mahakavi - going through yr joke, I want to share my experience. the very first day when I reached North India(Delhi), as usual I only little bit of hindi. One day I went to buy woodden blank to a shop and pointing out one blank, I asked the shopowner the cost of the ladiki (girl) instead of lakkad. In another incident, we were about 4/5 persons in a group where there was one bengali. The servant called us all with 'Ji' whereas when he addressed the bengali gentleman as 'Banerji' Mr Banerji got wild.

I can imagine what you said. "kyA dham vah ladki ko?" ---ladki instead of lakdi. It is a wonder you came back alive.:boink:

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Tamil Brahmins keep the punal on their body whether they do sandhyavandanam or not but, unfortunately, Many Tamil Brahmins girls remove the thali often without understanding its importance

When we go through the security check, before boarding overseas flights, all our jewels should be removed

and kept in a try for scanning. I have gone to the USA thrice and NEVER removed my 'thali' chain.

Probably some more ladies might have resisted earlier. All the officers respected my stand!! :thumb:

 

[mahakavi]

When we go through the security check, before boarding overseas flights, all our jewels should be removed

and kept in a try for scanning. I have gone to the USA thrice and NEVER removed my 'thali' chain. .....

Did you also do the same when returning from the US or when traveling within the US by air? Some airports are finicky about any metallic objects on your body. Men are asked to remove belts even if it has only a small buckle. That way it is easier for them to do a strip search since the pant falls off when you remove the belt:roll:

 

[Raji Ram]

................ 1. At the time of wedding the groom ties only the yellow thread with the mAngalyam attached to it. Many women these days then remove the thread and attach the mAngalyam to a gold chain and wear it. I wonder why?--Just to avoid the rubbing of the thread against the neck? The rubbing of the gold chain is OK? So once the thread is removed then it does not matter if it is removed temporarily or permanently...........

The same yellow thread will NOT continue for years together and has to be replaced at least every year, if not more often, right?

Usually, the thread is changed on 'kAradaiyAn nonbu' day. There is a method to do it. Place the new thread parallel to the old one,

untie the knots of the old thread and start the transfer of the gold pieces, without dropping them.

The idea of wearing a gold chain is for easy maintenance. I have found a new method to use a thread along with the gold chain.

The thread is for holding the gold pieces of the thAli and to attach it to the rings at the end of the gold chain. There is one more

advantage! The beads and hooks of the gold pieces of the thAli will not become thin as it does, if worn over a gold chain!!

 

[Raji Ram]

Did you also do the same when returning from the US or when traveling within the US by air? Some airports are finicky about any metallic objects on your body. ......

Yes Sir!! I could manage in all the airports!! That is why I wrote that some more ladies might have objected earlier

and the officers knew about us! :spy:

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Men are asked to remove belts even if it has only a small buckle. That way it is easier for them to do a strip search since the pant falls off when you remove the belt ..

Those 'thoppai mAmAs' should opt to the old style of holding the pant with straps which run over the shoulders.

 

[mahakavi]

Those 'thoppai mAmAs' should opt to the old style of holding the pant with straps which run over the shoulders.

The suspender type of pants are not available anymore. Besides, their vanity would not let them wear the suspenders.

 

[Raji Ram]

It is NOT old style!! Pants with suspenders are today's fashion too!! :high5:

 

[Raji Ram]

The suspender type of pants are not available anymore. Besides, their vanity would not let them wear the suspenders.

Google search gives lots of new type suspenders Sir!! But I agree to your valid point, viz. 'vanity'!!

 

[mahakavi]

Some Wall Street types wear them occasionally. The same thing with bow ties. Now they are like dodo bird---extinct. Gordon Gekko (Mike Douglas in the 1987 movie "Wall Street") wore suspenders.