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Science and Spirituality

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Dear Renuka,

I dont preach blind faith in God and definitely not blind faith in me. I dont have to preach to those who believe in God and I do not want to interfere in the thinking of those who do not believe in God. I share my intuitions which I get now and then and some people brand it as my spirituality. It is not a new brand but only interpretations using concepts that are current and which people of today can relate to.
 
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Dear Renuka,

I also do not want to mince words and will call spade a spade. Science is at its infancy and it would be ludicrous to think otherwise. One would actually be stunting its growth when one has a closed mind.
 
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I want to put things in perspective and this is not to blow my own trumpet. The strongest physical energy that a physics lab can generate can come nowhere close in power to the power of the spiritual energy I can create.

Again this information is only to put things in perspective and understand how far we have to go to catch up with nature or even the rest of the universe.
 
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I want to put things in perspective and this is not to blow my own trumpet. The strongest physical energy that a physics lab can generate can come nowhere close in power to the power of the spiritual energy I can create.

Again this information is only to put things in perspective and understand how far we have to go to catch up with nature or even the rest of the universe.

See...you keep bragging!LOL

what energy can you create Sravna..tell us please.
 
Dear Sravnaji,

This is picking up from where I left:

We were discussing the need for a vocabulary to understand and communicate about other aspects/facets of reality--other than what science and technology have thrown light on.

I believe it is just a question of time. Hundred years back we were measuring the area of land in terms of the amount of paddy seeds that will be needed for a full crop on the extent of land. In my village we used to call it விதைப்பாடு. ஒரு கோட்டை விதைப்பாடு represented an extent of land that was enough to cultivate ஒரு கோட்டை paddy seeds. Again ஒரு கோட்டை was the measure of volume. From that stage we have moved and today we measure land area in Ares,cents, Acres and Hectares. These new units are based on the unit of measurement of length - the metre which we have discussed earlier. And of course miles and kilometres. Today when you say the speed of light is 1,86,000 miles per second I understand what you are telling as we are drawing from a common vocabulary for science.

While it was fine to develop a vocabulary for science and technology, we erred when we started using the same vocabulary for other aspects/facets of reality too. The other aspects of reality require perhaps a different set of words, terms, definitions, units and language. We have not developed even the rudiments of such a language yet. That is the reason when you speak about one aspect of the reality using the term of science-Energy-it is misunderstood largely.

I believe we have to wait it out untill humanity develops a language to communicate and share the knowledge about the many other facets/aspects of reality. If you want, and have time, you may contribute towards the development of this.

Meanwhile let us not confuse ourselves and others by explaining exotic other aspects of reality by using the language of science and technology.

I can write about this more. But I stop here for fear of readers fatigue.

And I am curious:

You had referred in one of your posts to my style of presentation. As I am coming across this "style of presentation" for the third or fourth time in this forum, Could you please tell me what you are speaking about. That will be a feed-back useful to me in moderating, changing the way I present my ideas here. Thank you.
 
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"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world."

Said Ludwig Wittgenstein
Austrian-British Philosopher, who worked primarily in Logic, Mathematics and Mind.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
Meanwhile let us not confuse ourselves and others by explaining exotic other aspects of reality by using the language of science and technology. (Posting#55)

This is my very strong view and in total agreement with your suggestions !

Look at my post#21


Scientific mind can be Spiritual but cannot allow scientific cover for myths!
 
Dear Sravna...

A woman has the power to make heads turn without even the need to generate any massive energy or getting all spiritual.

All a female has to do is simply exists.

Can you make heads turn when you go out?

See..I can.

Thats the power of being a female..we do simply nothing yet we can make the cervical spine holding the head of males turn..
Kya power yaar!
 
Dear Sravna...

A woman has the power to make heads turn without even the need to generate any massive energy or getting all spiritual.

All a female has to do is simply exists.

Can you make heads turn when you go out?

See..I can.

Thats the power of being a female..we do simply nothing yet we can make the cervical spine holding the head of males turn..
Kya power yaar!

The woman who just exists can not make the head of a man turn--poor fellow he is already suffering from cervical spondylosis.
Power failure. LOL.
 
Dear Shri Vaagmi, Renuka, Smt. JJ and others

Science uses certain concepts as a part of describing reality. The concepts may relate to what scientists observe and measure or may be abstract. I accept we cannot use the concepts with exactly the same import as scientists use to describe a different reality but I do think we do not have to develop a different language or concepts.

The reason is, spirituality describes not a completely different reality but only a different level of reality. It is logical to use the same language but expand its scope to describe truths in that reality. So if we define energy as something that does physical work then we can define spiritual energy upto certain levels as something that does physical and mental work and spiritual energy at the highest levels as something that does physical, mental and spiritual work.

I believe for the sake of easily relating science to spirituality, it is necessary to use the same vocabulary but add the import that the higher level of reality demands.
 
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See...you keep bragging!LOL

what energy can you create Sravna..tell us please.

It is not bragging Renuka. When people keep talking about great accomplishments in science and technology, I am compelled to reveal the truth, being that they are not great yet and we need to work harder and smarter for a long time to make technology really great.
 
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The woman who just exists can not make the head of a man turn--poor fellow he is already suffering from cervical spondylosis.
Power failure. LOL.

This poor fellow with cervical spondylosis has the power to cure cervical cancer !

Logic of post#60

It is logical to use the same language but expand its scope to describe truths in that reality.
 
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The woman who just exists can not make the head of a man turn--poor fellow he is already suffering from cervical spondylosis.
Power failure. LOL.

Vaagmi ji....there is no power failure here.
The boneless organ stands no risk for spondylosis.
God designed humans well.
 
It is not bragging Renuka. When people keep talking about great accomplishments in science and technology, I am compelled to reveal the truth, being that they are not great yet and we need to work harder and smarter for a long time to make technology really great.

Sravna...none of us are over the top praising science..we just accept it as part of live and has benefits and drawbacks but its you who is anti science.

I know the reason..simple.
Cos Science requires evidence for everything..even for a medication we need to have bioequivalent studies..so all these has made humans seek evidence for every step we take.

So since you can never produce any evidence for all your claims for eg generating greater power acting like a demi god son of Zeus...you cant convince anyone to believe you...so you see science as your "enemy" cos it does not promote blind faith and you cant play Pied Piper of Hamelin cos we rodents now want evidence as how your tune works.

See..Moses parted the red sea...Jesus rose from the dead...Krishna lifted Govardhana mountain..Hanuman carried a mountain too...so all had some evidence..but what did Sravna do?


Btw all of us know that we humans are not the greatest...there is much we dont know yet but we are logical enough to realize this.
 
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Why you folks get worked up when I say some truths about science and technology. I am definitely not anti science but only think it is utterly nonsensical to ridicule a greater truth based on the accomplishments of science when the truth is science itself is only toddling around now. As I said you would be doing it a disservice if you do not understand the truth that without acknowledging and understanding the spiritual reality its growth will be stunted.
 
Why you folks get worked up when I say some truths about science and technology. I am definitely not anti science but only think it is utterly nonsensical to ridicule a greater truth based on the accomplishments of science when the truth is science itself is only toddling around now. As I said you would be doing it a disservice if you do not understand the truth that without acknowledging and understanding the spiritual reality its growth will be stunted.

We dont get worked up at all...we do not divide and rule life into Science and Spirituality...we have the Sense and Sensibility not to apply Pride and Prejudice into existence and to know that there is manifest and the unmanifest..both play a significant role in existence.

There is no denial in our views..there is only understanding that there is much we do not know and might not ever know.

But for sure we know not to ruin our minds by believing tall claims of false prophets.
 
We dont get worked up at all...we do not divide and rule life into Science and Spirituality...we have the Sense and Sensibility not to apply Pride and Prejudice into existence and to know that there is manifest and the unmanifest..both play a significant role in existence.

There is no denial in our views..there is only understanding that there is much we do not know and might not ever know.

But for sure we know not to ruin our minds by believing tall claims of false prophets.

A more sensible position. I appreciate it.
 
And I am curious:

You had referred in one of your posts to my style of presentation. As I am coming across this "style of presentation" for the third or fourth time in this forum, Could you please tell me what you are speaking about. That will be a feed-back useful to me in moderating, changing the way I present my ideas here. Thank you.

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

I was just referring to your statement that you want to give me a long rope and I used the same expression in my post. I was not referring exactly to a style. But I do like your style of writing.
 
Why you folks get worked up when I say some truths about science and technology. I am definitely not anti science but only think it is utterly nonsensical to ridicule a greater truth based on the accomplishments of science when the truth is science itself is only toddling around now. As I said you would be doing it a disservice if you do not understand the truth that without acknowledging and understanding the spiritual reality its growth will be stunted.

Sravnaji,

Now you are speaking in comaprative terms. You are speaking about a "greater" truth. I am unable to accept this. Why is it greater? Have you measured anything? If so with what scale? and what were the units of measure? Where are the standards? and How did you measure?

You can not answer these questions satisfactorily.

Now coming back to that example I wrote about:

When that prasnam man looked at my face-a stranger's face-and went ahead to speak about my house and my village and the temple there in such details what did he actually do?

The first step in the process --I use the term "process" because it can be common to the various facets of reality. There I am already contributing to the development of a vocabulary. LOL-- can be to understand what he did when he looked at my face and went away in space and time. Did he use my presence as a switch? If so what two things did the switch connect? Why were they open all the while to get connected at that moment through my physical presence? and how far did that man travel in that plane and in what direction? What determined the direction and distance? Or did he get transported direct to that moment straight and stood infront of my house back home and the irrigation channel in the backyard of my house? What was the vehicle that carried him there? All questions and remain questions.

And coming to your nomenclature for the facet of reality--Energy, did that man suddenly gain "energy"looking at me? If so what was that energy like? And with that energy could he go back and forth in Time? if yes How? Again questions without answers. So I come to the conclusion that it is an altogether different facet of reality with its own laws, language, measures etc., We can only enter it and get out. We have to master its language, methods and processes.

Please think about what I am telling here.

Without understanding these things, to speak about greater reality and smaller reality etc., is just meaningless. It needs deep meditation and insight and repeated sittings to understand the reality first in all its mesmerising multi facets. Then look at each one in all detail.

I stop with this. Thank you.
 
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Dear Vaagmi Ji,

I use the same yardstick as science does to assess whether I have succeeded in my attempt to understand and describe reality. The yardstick is whether I can develop a hypothesis to describe the reality in a cogent way and whether the hypothesis has good predictive power and whether the hypothesis is consistent with what has been proven.

Frankly I am comfortable with the vocabulary I am using and I believe I can develop a cogent hypothesis which can predict outcomes and also be useful in developing practical applications.

My early success in treating health problems has given me the confidence that spiritual energy is something very real and very likely has its own laws and a reality of its own. I can pretty much relate my observations to what is said in our scriptures and so I am definitely not going to look for a greater authority than our scriptures.

I hope my efforts will yield tangible results. I will keep the forum informed.
 
Sravnaji,

Now you are speaking in comaprative terms. You are speaking about a "greater" truth. I am unable to accept this. Why is it greater? Have you measured anything? If so with what scale? and what were the units of measure? Where are the standards? and How did you measure?
I have not done any measurement but I am not talking about quantity when I say that what I see is a greater reality. I say it is a greater reality because I see the physical energy vanish in face of spiritual energy. So the fact that the spiritual energy does that suggests that it is more real than physical energy
You can not answer these questions satisfactorily.
I have answered them

Now coming back to that example I wrote about:

When that prasnam man looked at my face-a stranger's face-and went ahead to speak about my house and my village and the temple there in such details what did he actually do?

The first step in the process --I use the term "process" because it can be common to the various facets of reality. There I am already contributing to the development of a vocabulary. LOL-- can be to understand what he did when he looked at my face and went away in space and time. Did he use my presence as a switch? If so what two things did the switch connect? Why were they open all the while to get connected at that moment through my physical presence? and how far did that man travel in that plane and in what direction? What determined the direction and distance? Or did he get transported direct to that moment straight and stood infront of my house back home and the irrigation channel in the backyard of my house? What was the vehicle that carried him there? All questions and remain questions.

And coming to your nomenclature for the facet of reality--Energy, did that man suddenly gain "energy"looking at me? If so what was that energy like? And with that energy could he go back and forth in Time? if yes How? Again questions without answers. So I come to the conclusion that it is an altogether different facet of reality with its own laws, language, measures etc., We can only enter it and get out. We have to master its language, methods and processes.

Please think about what I am telling here.
Yes the reality has its own laws and it is exactly these types of occurrences or phenomena that have been explained by spiritual knowledge. We do not need a new language but only need to bridge the language of spirituality and that of science. So let us not re invent the wheel.
Without understanding these things, to speak about greater reality and smaller reality etc., is just meaningless. It needs deep meditation and insight and repeated sittings to understand the reality first in all its mesmerising multi facets. Then look at each one in all detail.
Our forefathers have already done all the meditation and insights. We just need to use them and relate them to modern knowledge
 
I have not done any measurement but I am not talking about quantity when I say that what I see is a greater reality. I say it is a greater reality because I see the physical energy vanish in face of spiritual energy. So the fact that the spiritual energy does that suggests that it is more real than physical energy
I have answered them


Yes the reality has its own laws and it is exactly these types of occurrences or phenomena that have been explained by spiritual knowledge. We do not need a new language but only need to bridge the language of spirituality and that of science. So let us not re invent the wheel.
Our forefathers have already done all the meditation and insights. We just need to use them and relate them to modern knowledge

As usual...no valid answers that can be quantified or qualified.

Sravna..in your website you better not put a link to.TB forum cos your potential clients will start doubting your credibility.reading all exchamges here where any sighted one can see you have just no back up for all your claims.
 
Our forefathers have already done all the meditation and insights. We just need to use them and relate them to modern knowledge (post#71)
I presume - they to be the Spiritual as per our Gothra and not the scientific!
 
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Dear Renuka,

Beyond a certain stage you cannot quantify. For example you cannot quantify thoughts in the way you quantify physical energy. Thoughts do have frequency but I believe you cannot talk about amplitude. Spiritual energy is even less quantifiable. All you can look for is a cogent explanation for your observations.
 
Dear Renuka,

Beyond a certain stage you cannot quantify. For example you cannot quantify thoughts in the way you quantify physical energy. Thoughts do have frequency but I believe you cannot talk about amplitude. Spiritual energy is even less quantifiable. All you can look for is a cogent explanation for your observations.

So how would you differentiate between delusional observations and actual spiritual observations?

Sravna..a lot of ancient text are specific in their explanation ranging from astronomy to ayurveda..
No one sounded delusional.

Off course you would say spiritual energy is less quantifiable becos you just dont know.

Nothing is not quantifiable..its just that we havent discovered the means to measure everything.

Once upon a time bacterial was not "quantifiable" becos it was not visible to the naked eye..then mictoscope invention changed the whole scenario.

So try to look for means to quantify spiritual energy.
 
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