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Spirituality, Religion and Science

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sravna

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People know what religion is and people know what science is but many do not know what spirituality means. I have been making attempts to explain what spirituality is. It is about the inner world, that we do not see by senses but only by mind. It is also not affected by space and time. So we can say it is about things universal and timeless i.e, about higher values.

Now when we think what the founders of religions taught at least the major ones, they talk about love, compassion and such higher values. So all the religions teach these messages. These messages are the messages of spirituality and so spirituality is something which is the common theme of all religions and hence transcends religions.

When we try to figure out why there are so many religions when all teach basically the same, we can see that there are differences too and those differences are dictated by the circumstances of the prevailing time. For example Adi Sankara fought against rituals of all kinds and tried to instill logical thinking because at his time meaningless practice of rituals were rampant.

However the logical analysis became an end by itself and taken to undesirable extent that Ramanuja had to teach that love and bhakthi matter more. Similarly some aspects of religion became peculiar to it though the deeper message was the same all along from Mahavira to Guru Nanak.

Currently we find ourselves in a different situation. Great success of science and technology and its ability to transform people's lives have made people gradually move away from religion to science and technology. The religious truths are required to pass the rigor of scientific tests. People slowly have lost the ability to understand that spirituality and science are two different approaches and one need not and should not be required to conform to the other.

It is this gradual abandoning of religion that is the greatest threat to humanity because we are throwing away spirituality along with it. We are in effect throwing away finer values and live for instant joy and success. Materialism seems to have taken root firmly strongly and unless something quick is done about it, I think we would be in a really big mess.

The talk of preserving the culture in this forum is by people who want some sanity and some sense to return back and not pave way for our self destruction. Let us heed those voices or at least try to understand the concerns of such people . They are talking for all and not for themselves. Let us begin to think again of others who may need our help . It can be infectious too. Only return to principles can be an antidote to the highly poisonous situation we are in. We need to practice the true spirit of religions, the way the founders would and overcome the anomalous time caused by excessive materialism.
 
Dear Sravna,

Adhering to culture has no connection what so ever with "spirituality".

Adhering to culture can eventually be just a spinal reflex...that is it does not really go thru the mind and brain.

We can even make an AI that adheres to any culture.

The very fact that each Guru/Acharya had his own brand of spirituality..be it Jnaana or Bhakti designed for time,place and person just reflects that nothing ever remains the same or static.

Existence is fluid...changes are inevitable...culture changes.

Ok Sravna..on a personal basis..how much culture to do you adhere to?

I can honestly on my part say I do not adhere to any form of uniformed culture.

My lifestyle is my personal choice..totally not shaped by anyone or anything.

I live by my own standards of logic and preference..for example I do not celebrate festivals..reason? Cos no one day is more holy than the other.

Every day is the same...no amount of celebration can change anyone..the mind is the master of our senses..if that is not set right celebrating anything however holy or even taking dips in Ganga will not change anything.

I feel the best is to have logical thinking that is rational in approach.

Non-Violence can be advocated when self,family or nation is not in danger.

Culture for many people is just some type of food..some style of dressing..some accents..some identity...but what about the culture of Thought,Word and Deed? No one really cares.

People talk about non violence yet they litter the earth...violating mother nature.
They talk of Gunas yet they have hatred and jealousy in their heart.

They talk about Advaita yet they can never give up attachment.

People have even mini temples at home and have even personal priest..yet they are corrupt.

Even Dons adhere to their community culture without fail..so my dear Sravna..culture does not really shape anyone's mind.

There is a missing link here..what exactly can shape the human mind to be in its purest state?

Any idea?

There might not actually be an answer..or there might be multiple answers..or may be purity itself can not really exists in a physical form...after all it was the tilt in the Gunas that lead to creation which is eclipsed by Maya.
 
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Any idea?

There might not actually be an answer..or there might be multiple answers..or may be purity itself can not really exists in a physical form...after all it was the tilt in the Gunas that lead to creation which is eclipsed by Maya.
Dear Renuka,

We need something like culture to guide us because it is time honored just like the laws of science. The essence of culture will remain the same because the values of mind are something that does not change. You can either be conscientious or egoistic It is the physical manifestations that are different
 
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Dear Renuka,

We need something like culture to guide us because it is time honored just like the laws of science. The essence of culture will remain the same because the values of mind are something that does not change. You can either be conscientious or egoistic It is the physical manifestations that are different

Dear Sravna,

The human mind actually has fear as its substratum.

People fear that without adhering to culture they would be lost and directionless.

As a mature adult we can choose to decide to be ourselves...the truth self does not need culture.

But you have not yet answered my question..how much of culture do you adhere to on daily basis?
 
Dear Sravna,

But you have not yet answered my question..how much of culture do you adhere to on daily basis?

Dear Renuka,

I try to adhere to time independent values and trying to follow dharma but do not follow almost any of the external aspects. If your mind follows the culture , you are ok in following culture is what I think.
 
Dear Renuka,

I try to adhere to time independent values and trying to follow dharma but do not follow almost any of the external aspects. If your mind follows the culture , you are ok in following culture is what I think.


Dear Sravna,

I dont follow any values laid down by culture out of compulsion.

I follow my heart and mind.

The only Dharma I know is "Mama Dharma"..my dharma!LOL
 
Dear Renuka,

Trying to b good to others and not being selfish are desirable even in behavior i.e, even if forced. That way you keep the animal instincts under control. It is wise to keep such instincts under control because if they are granted licence the result will be most undesirable.
 
Dear Renuka,

Trying to b good to others and not being selfish are desirable even in behavior i.e, even if forced. That way you keep the animal instincts under control. It is wise to keep such instincts under control because if they are granted licence the result will be most undesirable.

Dear Sravna,

It not fair to use the word animal instincts when we humans misbehave.
Animals act within their dharma.

Sravna..I do not find anything wrong being selfish.

I can be very selfish too..I prefer to call it Self Concerned.

I will give you an example..a few old school mates wanted to meet up with me some next week but I was not keen to meet up cos I felt that would eat into my personal time also I am not entirely fond to meet up with so many people and catch up answering all questions about myself,family etc.

So I said No..I cant attend ..but I was honest to tell the truth that I am not able to spare the time cos I need time for running my errands on weekends and its not my style to hang out with anyone.I prefer spending personal time alone.

Selfish? It might sound that way but to me I wont give up my personal time for anyone unless its a medical emergency.

Some 3 weeks back I was all dressed to go for talk..on the way I saw an accident...a person was lying on the road motionless.

I pulled over..asked the policeman if I could help..he said there was already a doc at the scene but victim was already dead.

So you see..I can give my personal time for such cases cos its matter of life and death.

So Selfish or Selfless?

I feel we can only be what we really are.
 
Dear Renuka,

What you call as self concerned is fine. But when I say selfish it is being concerned about self at the expense of others when you really do not have to do that.
 
People know what religion is and people know what science is but many do not know what spirituality means. I have been making attempts to explain what spirituality is. It is about the inner world, that we do not see by senses but only by mind. It is also not affected by space and time. So we can say it is about things universal and timeless i.e, about higher values.

Now when we think what the founders of religions taught at least the major ones, they talk about love, compassion and such higher values. So all the religions teach these messages. These messages are the messages of spirituality and so spirituality is something which is the common theme of all religions and hence transcends religions.

When we try to figure out why there are so many religions when all teach basically the same, we can see that there are differences too and those differences are dictated by the circumstances of the prevailing time. For example Adi Sankara fought against rituals of all kinds and tried to instill logical thinking because at his time meaningless practice of rituals were rampant.

However the logical analysis became an end by itself and taken to undesirable extent that Ramanuja had to teach that love and bhakthi matter more. Similarly some aspects of religion became peculiar to it though the deeper message was the same all along from Mahavira to Guru Nanak.

Currently we find ourselves in a different situation. Great success of science and technology and its ability to transform people's lives have made people gradually move away from religion to science and technology. The religious truths are required to pass the rigor of scientific tests. People slowly have lost the ability to understand that spirituality and science are two different approaches and one need not and should not be required to conform to the other.

It is this gradual abandoning of religion that is the greatest threat to humanity because we are throwing away spirituality along with it. We are in effect throwing away finer values and live for instant joy and success. Materialism seems to have taken root firmly strongly and unless something quick is done about it, I think we would be in a really big mess.

The talk of preserving the culture in this forum is by people who want some sanity and some sense to return back and not pave way for our self destruction. Let us heed those voices or at least try to understand the concerns of such people . They are talking for all and not for themselves. Let us begin to think again of others who may need our help . It can be infectious too. Only return to principles can be an antidote to the highly poisonous situation we are in. We need to practice the true spirit of religions, the way the founders would and overcome the anomalous time caused by excessive materialism.

Honestly do you think that religion is the only way to spread love, compassion and higher values? And culture is the doorway to that?

What is wrong in living for instant joy and success? You seem to make sweeping observations without proper reasoning.
 
Honestly do you think that religion is the only way to spread love, compassion and higher values? And culture is the doorway to that?

What is wrong in living for instant joy and success? You seem to make sweeping observations without proper reasoning.

Dear auh,

You got it ulta. Spreading love, compassion and higher values are exactly what spirituality is. You can call it by any name. Living for instant joy and success generally contradicts with living for love, compassion and higher values but the reverse is not true as living for love can give you joy all the time.
 
Dear Sravna,

What is living for love,compassion and higher values?

All these are just temporary sensations in our mind.

Actually I feel Love does not really exists..we only know lust and attachment.

Even what we feel for family is attachment and major dose of Mamaiva.

Lust gives us pleasure.

Compassion too has SELF as its reference point cos when we feel compassion for someone or something we start to imagine ourselves in that person's place..we need to identify ourselves with the person's pain and suffering to feel compassion.

Someone I knew died a few years back in a fire..each time I light my stove I still think of how fire consumed that person and the pain that person would have suffered.
It becos of identifying myself with that person's suffering I feel compassion.

So almost everything has SELF as a reference and everything is a fleeting expression in our mind..including Higher Values.
 
Dear Renuka,

As some people believe, thinking about self by itself is not wrong. You should be able to include others also. There are people who cannot embrace others and think only of self. That is wrong. So treat others in the same way you would like self to be treated.
 
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