Success of Science attests to Spirituality

[sravna]

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The goal of Science is to understand the various phenomena of nature. Once you have a good understanding you are able to describe the phenomenon even with reference to the future. The better the understanding the greater is the accuracy of your description of the future. In a similar you are able to look back at the past and theorize what happened some millions or billions of years ago. If you theory is good you are exactly able to look back into the past as you look into the future.

Thus my contention is this. Through accurate scientific theories you are able to say what happened in the past and what will happen in the future. So if science is say 100% or close to 100% successful there will be one correct grand theory about the universe that explains everything and can predict let's say, more or less everything. Thus in your mind the reality already exists.

The above is exactly the premise of spirituality. That everything is already etched in time. In other words this attests to timelessness. You progress step by step in science because of its methods but the spiritual people grasped all at once. Your perspective varies if you see all at once and that is the reason science and spirituality seem to diverge at initial stages but have to see the same reality once the whole is grasped.

 

[sravna]

An interesting point can be raised. The determinism of the world only holds true assuming it is true, if mental creatures don't unduly interfere. Knowing the future of the world if man tries to change it, the physical determinism will be overruled by the minds. The intersting question is, can the minds also be overruled in a similar manner?

 

[C RAVI]

An interesting point can be raised. The determinism of the world only holds true assuming it is true, if mental creatures don't unduly interfere. Knowing the future of the world if man tries to change it, the physical determinism will be overruled by the minds. The intersting question is, can the minds also be overruled in a similar manner?

Shri Sravna,

I coudn't get this clealy..

As you said, it is true that physical diterminism will be overruled by the minds. Than your question, "can the minds also be overruled in a similar manner?", is not somewhat clear to me.

Because, knowing the future of the world if man tries to change it, isn't the minds here been over ruled with the previous thoughts in mind that has considered that the future world will be in a certain way and can not be changed?

I am not sure if the clarification I am seeking with my above questiion is relavent to what you are conveying.

Can you please elaborate a bit more and help me ponder on your topic?

 

[sravna]

Shri Sravna,

I coudn't get this clealy..

As you said, it is true that physical diterminism will be overruled by the minds. Than your question, "can the minds also be overruled in a similar manner?", is not somewhat clear to me.

Because, knowing the future of the world if man tries to change it, isn't the minds here been over ruled with the previous thoughts in mind that has considered that the future world will be in a certain way and can not be changed?

I am not sure if the clarification I am seeking with my above questiion is relavent to what you are conveying.

Can you please elaborate a bit more and help me ponder on your topic?

OK, say perfect physical determinism is possible and achieved by the humans. So they are in control of the physical universe, right? But in a similar way can something be totally knowledgeable about all the thoughts and have the same control over us in similar way that we have over the universe? The concept of brahman is not at odds with this idea. Since brahman is something which is considered omniscient it may have access to all the thoughts in all of space and time. The hierarchy of control is too tempting to ignore: Mental having access to physical and spiritual having access to mental.

 

[C RAVI]

OK, say perfect physical determinism is possible and achieved by the humans. So they are in control of the physical universe, right? But in a similar way can something be totally knowledgeable about all the thoughts and have the same control over us in similar way that we have over the universe? The concept of brahman is not at odds with this idea. Since brahman is something which is considered omniscient it may have access to all the thoughts in all of space and time. The hierarchy of control is too tempting to ignore: Mental having access to physical and spiritual having access to mental.

Got it well Shri Sravna. Thank you for your clarifications.

Yes. I believe too in the same lines. Some times ago in this forum I have mentioned that - Tongue and lips that we use to speak are controlled by the thoughts of our brain and our brain is controlled by the Supreme Power. Than we may ask, if Supreme Power has control over our mental thoughts, than why many negativity exists in human survival?

As per my understanding from various sources and my observations/views, our thoughts are receptive to all the good and evil forces of this physical world. All these forces are the sources of our thought process and the resultant attitude / perceptions / values / principles etc..etc. are outcome of all such positive and negative analysis. This is the challange we humans alone got to bear and undergo a trial with our rational brains. Here true spirituality is offered as a tool to influence one's mental thought process for better, in order to hold onself in a righteous manner, to the best of one's consciousness under each circumstances.

Yes, the hierarchy of control is too tempting to ignore as you have indicated in your conclusion. Provided, humans could understand and acknowledge this heirarchy.

If we want to succeed in life in a righteous manner, we should neither be scared of possible hinderances nor be pessimistic about the end result. But we should not forget that, in this process, supreme spiritual energies (whether one is in sprirituality or not, but basically a righteous and justfull person with good deeds) would for sure pave many ways towards progress with clarity, ideas, expected help from unexpected sources etc.., to achieve what we were working for. If we face failures at the end, still it has its valid purpose and reasoning, that our rational mind as a mere human would not agree and accept with ease. A spiritually inclined person would for sure overcome such uneassyness and pains and would continue to remain righteous.

 

[Yamaka]

The goal of Science is to understand the various phenomena of nature. Once you have a good understanding you are able to describe the phenomenon even with reference to the future. The better the understanding the greater is the accuracy of your description of the future. In a similar you are able to look back at the past and theorize what happened some millions or billions of years ago. If you theory is good you are exactly able to look back into the past as you look into the future.

Thus my contention is this. Through accurate scientific theories you are able to say what happened in the past and what will happen in the future. So if science is say 100% or close to 100% successful there will be one correct grand theory about the universe that explains everything and can predict let's say, more or less everything. Thus in your mind the reality already exists.

The above is exactly the premise of spirituality. That everything is already etched in time. In other words this attests to timelessness. You progress step by step in science because of its methods but the spiritual people grasped all at once. Your perspective varies if you see all at once and that is the reason science and spirituality seem to diverge at initial stages but have to see the same reality once the whole is grasped.

Dear Sravna:

Before you proceed further with your hypothesis or argument, please define Spirituality/Religiosity according to Hindu philosophy.

From my wife I learn that according to "Basic Hindu Philosophy" Spirituality = Religiosity = Believing in Super Natural Gods and Janma Poorva Karma..

If you buy this definition, then there is no commonality between Science and Religion, I am afraid.

Because, Science does not believe in the existence of Super Natural Gods, and JPK, period.

_______________________

On Science knowing the past and FUTURE:

Well, by myriads of hypothesis testing and experimentation, Scientists have understood a lot about Nature, and are constantly experimenting to know the future.... things are in progress.

Like anybody else, hindsight is 20/20 for Scientists and the foresight is very very poor... although it could be little better than a non-Scientist...

Therefore, I fail to understand your lines like "thus, in your mind reality already exists" or "attests to timelessness" and "the spirituality and the whole is grasped" etc etc.

Believe me, Science and Religion can't coexist or meet at all....they have to be in different places living in different worlds!

Wait & watch.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Sravna:

Before you proceed further with your hypothesis or argument, please define Spirituality/Religiosity according to Hindu philosophy.

From my wife I learn that according to "Basic Hindu Philosophy" Spirituality = Religiosity = Believing in Super Natural Gods and Janma Poorva Karma..

If you buy this definition, then there is no commonality between Science and Religion, I am afraid.

Because, Science does not believe in the existence of Super Natural Gods, and JPK, period.

_______________________

On Science knowing the past and FUTURE:

Well, by myriads of hypothesis testing and experimentation, Scientists have understood a lot about Nature, and are constantly experimenting to know the future.... things are in progress.

Like anybody else, hindsight is 20/20 for Scientists and the foresight is very very poor... although it could be little better than a non-Scientist...

Therefore, I fail to understand your lines like "thus, in your mind reality already exists" or "attests to timelessness" and "the spirituality and the whole is grasped" etc etc.

Believe me, Science and Religion can't coexist or meet at all....they have to be in different places living in different worlds!

Wait & watch.

Shri Yamaka,

Off course Science and Religion can't coexist or meet at all, as per Atheists. No doubt in it..

Subject of English, Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Literature, History, war strategies, technology, Politics, sociology, criminology, medical science etc..etc are all explored by humans. By only and only Humans in the process of evolution (this no one can deny). During the same process of evolution, Spirituality also evolved enabling many mahathmas namely, Adi Shankarar, Ramakirshna Paramhansa, Ramana Maharishi, Sheshadri Swamiga, Sri Ragavendra and other enlightened souls existed and lead the Humans towards better evolution.

So far in my life many of the professionals/scholars of the above mentioned subjects, known to me some way, were all Theist with absolute belief and devotion towards God and Spirituality.

Theists would agree for sure with out a single doubt that Atheist would for sure dismiss any points that are focusing on coexistence of Science and Spirituality.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Sravna,

As per your topic - "Success of Science attests to Spirituality" is concerned, the other point to highlight is - "Today's Sience is the extended version (/result) of Spiritual Science, in due process of evolution.

Remote access (spiritually influencing without physical touch directly); Magic (changing appearances/transformations/feel of aura); Telecommunication (telephathy/communicatiion between minds of two, away from each other); Coding-Decoding (spiritual wisdom to conceal and disclose); Wireless broadcasting/Satelite links (supreme spritual prowess of representation of a thing in a different location); Hypnotism (Supreme Spiritual influences over the other, contolling other's mind), Maths/Physics/Chemisty/Biology (conglomeration of Spiritual wisdom/powers/creation). There may be some more that can be included to establish how spiritual energies paved ways in different dimensions in this yuga for the better and worst cause of human survival (by good and disastrous inventions), for the very purpose of the both.