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On Vishitadvaita Philosophy...

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Yes, there are separate entities, but all in one is the paramathma... the superset...

Vishishtadvaitham acknowledges the existence of all entities but pervaded by the consciousness of Saguna Brahman... in this approach, there is no dvaitham... only advaitham

But, Brahman is not devoid of gunas for that is impossible... it would be like equation Brahman to "voidity"... in this it becomes qualified advaitham...

Bakthi is not an entity, it is a relationship, a feeling...and an acknowledgement...

Sri vaikuntam is where Sriman Narayanan resides... it may be a separate entity composed of matter, but of consciousness, it is only two - paramathma and jeevathma...

If we were to take every entity that exists, there is no count to it... so the entities discussed here should be the consciousness... and not matter alone...
 
3 worlds

SriVaikuntam,ShakthiShiva Lokam,SarasBrahmaa Lokam..are all existance of Lokas in mind.All are in Bhu-Loka.:decision:

:) sb :)
 
..... from wht u say .. it takes a mind to conceive a deity and his abode ... which by itself shows that there are two entities .. a mind and a thought ... and also by ur statement u restrict ur deity to the three gunas ... but krishna in the gita clearly sez ( i am not able to pinpoint the lines) that everything inlcuding worship and the vedas can onlytell u abt the three gunas .. but u need to transcend them .... sri krishna obviously means there is a nirguna brahman that is the confluenced dissolution of all gunas into one gunaatheethan ... plus can u explain the fact that at first , according to u , there was a deity who was male and had 3 qualities? how did this form happen?
 
>>Such a person maybe so awestuck by this entire universe, the galaxy, the milkyway, that he might find it impossible that his one atma can become one with the one that created it all, he might see his jeeva as one step beneath the all-powerful divine.<<

Transformation of Brahman takes place.But Brahman existed,as aadium illai anthamum illai.Beginningless Endless Cycle.

sb
 
brahman alone exists ... no beginning ,end or transformation ..... all else including perception of a brahman is an illuison ... when there is only the brahman , who is the perceiver of the brahman?
 
..... from wht u say .. it takes a mind to conceive a deity and his abode ... which by itself shows that there are two entities .. a mind and a thought ... and also by ur statement u restrict ur deity to the three gunas ...
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a thought is an extension of the mind exercised through its will (through gunas)... and hence is not an entity in itself...

gunas are relative, there can be no all-inclusive guna list... sattvic, rajasic and tamasic are all relative terms... I meant guna in that it has a character... unlike a thoughtless and endless void entity called Brahman...


but krishna in the gita clearly sez ( i am not able to pinpoint the lines) that everything inlcuding worship and the vedas can onlytell u abt the three gunas .. but u need to transcend them .... sri krishna obviously means there is a nirguna brahman that is the confluenced dissolution of all gunas into one gunaatheethan ... plus can u explain the fact that at first ,
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Shall reply to this separately.

according to u , there was a deity who was male and had 3 qualities? how did this form happen?
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Really, did I say that?
 
when only brahman exists .. where is there any creation execpt as an illusion? there is no creation ...

as regards the male deity with sagunas , i meant the visishtadwaita bhava , not as if u sed so ...
 
Brahman could exist, but to say that there is no creation... would mean that we dont believe in our very existence.

Vishishtadhvaitha does not say so!!!... Please can you clarify where it explicitly says so?
 
Seshadri Subramaniam said:
Brahman could exist, but to say that there is no creation... would mean that we dont believe in our very existence.

Vishishtadhvaitha does not say so!!!... Please can you clarify where it explicitly says so?
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hi sesh sir,
just read sribhashyam of sri ramanujacharya....its difficult discuss like these
subject......mere english translation does not make any sense....better
understand original sanskrit words with proper understandings..
translations sometimes very dangerous......may be a personal opinion.

regards
tbs
 
Seshadri Subramaniam said:
Hi Shri tbs, I agree with that...

Could you pls post the relevant sanskrit text with its meaning in english, if possible...
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hi sesh sir,
there is sri vaishnava libraray in melakote near mysore...may be available
from MOTILAL BENARASI DAS PUBLICATIONS...just try in online
search too

reagards
tbs
 
There is an interesting view...

God is the superset... so one cannot say that he is devoid of any qualities for all qualities are flavoured with his essense... so all the bhavas, gunas - everything all together comprise the Brahman... In qualifying him Nirguna, it is but isolating Brahman...

Our relation to Brahman is like a sub set to a super set... all the sub sets put together comprise the super set... the sub sets individually cannot (never will) be equal to the super set. One can become like Brahman, but not Brahman. It is like comparision between a lamp light and the sun - the lamp light does have all the properties of the sun, but it is not the sun...

This is the fundamental difference between advaitham and vishishtadhvaitham...
 
Shri tbs, my query was to know whether Ramanujacharya had explicitly said that Sriman Narayana was a male deity with the three gunas... In my understanding of his philosophy, he did not...

I just wanted to know where I stood... that's all... but thanks
 
We are obsessed with gunas and hence our tendency to perceive a guna-less super set... i think that itself is a product of the gunas... so a nirguna exists where guna is... they are inseparable... and hence there cannot be a nirguna brahman...
 
>>brahman alone exists ... no beginning ,end or transformation ..... all else including perception of a brahman is an illuison ... when there is only the brahman , who is the perceiver of the brahman?<<

How did Brahman get coined?Who coined it?Obviously Brahman did not get coined by Brahman itself?!!

sb
 
sesh!

is your subset - set , is not similar to wave- ocean?
 
attn iyengars!

In Andaal's works - is there not advaitam?
In Bhagavat geeta - is there not advaitam?

Just curious

Regards
 
s007bala said:
>>brahman alone exists ... no beginning ,end or transformation ..... all else including perception of a brahman is an illuison ... when there is only the brahman , who is the perceiver of the brahman?<<

How did Brahman get coined?Who coined it?Obviously Brahman did not get coined by Brahman itself?!!

sb
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when the perception of a brahman is itself an illusion , it follows that naming the thing perceived as brahman is merely an extension of this illusion ... we go thru this everyday in our sleep during our dreams ....
 
maybe

vivekam.vairagyam said:
when the perception of a brahman is itself an illusion , it follows that naming the thing perceived as brahman is merely an extension of this illusion ... we go thru this everyday in our sleep during our dreams ....
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Shri V V

Brahman is reality.Brahman is not illusion.Perception of Brahman GYaanam is the chase.You are part and parcel of Brahman.I am part and parcel of Brahman.There is no illusion.I am sitting behind a computer and typing.So are you.The communication is real.There is no illusion.

What we go thru sleep,waking stage is true too.Its not illusion.

Saying its illusion is delusional.Of course this is my opinion.Just as you have yours.

Different rivers finally merge to sea.From sea evaporation takes place.Again water comes down as rainfall.Forming rivers.Back to sea.Everything in the universe is cyclic in nature.

sb
 
s007bala said:
Shri V V

Brahman is reality.Brahman is not illusion.Perception of Brahman GYaanam is the chase.You are part and parcel of Brahman.I am part and parcel of Brahman.There is no illusion.I am sitting behind a computer and typing.So are you.The communication is real.There is no illusion.

What we go thru sleep,waking stage is true too.Its not illusion.

Saying its illusion is delusional.Of course this is my opinion.Just as you have yours.

Different rivers finally merge to sea.From sea evaporation takes place.Again water comes down as rainfall.Forming rivers.Back to sea.Everything in the universe is cyclic in nature.

sb
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i have no illusions that my perception thru this body of anything is itself an illusion , by negating it people only create a further illusion ... of course , people are entitled to their delusions about thinking someone else is delusional ,,,,,their choice ...
 
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>>i have no illusions that my perception thru this body of anything is itself an illusion , by negating it people only create a further illusion ... of course , people are entitled to their delusions about thinking someone else is delusional ,,,,,their choice ...<<

Did anda come first and then brahm-anda or brahmanda first and then anda?Chicken or the egg.Or Egg and then Chicken.

sb
 
u r again trying to explain the brahman thru analogising it with the perceived illusion .. picture this ... does the character in a dream know that it is a dream? as foar the character goes it is real ..... it doesnt seem to think it is in a meredream .. does it?
 
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