On Vishitadvaita Philosophy...

[KRS]

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Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

You are very correct in your examples. Our scriptures say that the karma and it's phala are mainly to 'age' us in our spiritual lives. The brilliance of our religion is that different Sambradhayams sprang up to appeal to different proclivities and mind sets and spiritual ages of the souls.

What I said about 'Maya', I said in terms of what some people say. I myself, being attracted to the concept of Advaitha, believe that it is true in my spiritual world.

When someone asked Ramana Maharishi whether the Gods like Shiva and Vishnu actually existed, He said that they did exist because people believed they did.

I do not know the answer to your last question. If I 'knew' the answer, I wouldn't be posting in this Forum. Does it really matter? I leave such heavy intellectual metaphysics discussions to others, who claim they know it all.

Namaskarams,
KRS

Sri KRS-ji,

As a beginner, am saying this:

The topic of maya as you have rightly said troubles many.

To a physicist all that appears here may look like real. It exists. And it would be difficult for him to write every single thing off as an illusion or reduce it non-existentiality. To him brahman may more likely be saguna.

To a man cutting up a dead body in a mortuary all that appears here may look like surreal. He thinks something more might exist that what is seen. It would be difficult for him to write off stuff as only 'the seen'. To him brahman may more likely be nirguna.

To a yogi looking at both saguna and nirguna within his self, all that appears around him may seem to be the manifestation of nirguna mana in saguna aakara. He might say various siddhis makes one acquire the possibility of taking on any physical form. Can be take on the form of full roopam of Mahavishnu ? Can ? How about the other stuff - can he be the 'Narayana' that floats on water? The Narayanaupanishad says 'nishkalo niranjano nirvikalpo niraakhyatah: (nira-khyata = non-cognitive? beyond congnition?) shudho dev eko narayanah:, na dvitiyosti kaschit (there is no second?). Would this be advaitha or qualified advaitha? I hope sri mmji wud answer this. KRSji, i hope you would answer this too sir. And others too.

[Am adding this note for MMji:
There are times when i make the most stupidest of all comments - to bring out info from the other person. There are also certian times when i say things the other person wants to hear - to appease or understand the other person better. In either case, its coz there is nothing personal to hold on to. We are here today, gone tomorrow. Nothing lasts. I say this to let you know that I may be making difficult comments on this thread in future that may not be pleasing to hear. Kindly bear with me coz the idea is merely to understand, not to establish anything]

 

[malgova.mango]

krs

again you go...

i'm not asking or trying to convert anyone or any cult.

I'm simply asking them to explain their siddhantam in the context of Pramana Vakyas.

What is contested here is the " final say ". Upasanas do help to bring maturity to a persons understanding the final say so they have to stay and a must for spiritual ripening just like karma kandams are a must for ripening so too upasana kandams.
then only ripening is possible. please get it straight for one last time.

even before the acharyals establishing the siddantams - cult of worshipping Lord Vishnu as the ParamPorul is there, I've even quoted Mahabharatam for that..

We ourselves came from a Hamlet where Lord Vishnu is looked upon as the ParamPorul. As Smarthas we dedicate all our karmic action to Lord Narayana and Namaskarams to "Keshavam Prati Gachhati..."

......

 

[[email protected]]

Sri SSji., One means no problum, but Two mwans, and three means complications. So Advaitham is simple means "THAVAMASI". NEE OTHUVANAaI.

 

[[email protected]]

Sri SSji, No one see ATHMA, even doctor"s during Heart OPerations, Athma is not visible, but it operates the body in assocation with mind. Body is only carrier, but mind rules and Athma watchs, To understand Athma and merging with Paramathma is to do every day Meditation.While duing Meditation ones Legsfingers started to feelinglessand sensesness. and slowely the whole body will become senseness and like deadbody, that is SAMATHI .Once samathi stage comes he will understand who is he.

 

[malgova.mango]

srk sir!

for jeevan mukthi , one doesn't need to go to samadhi state. one just needs to understand who HE really is - it is that simple

 

[s007bala]

re

Sri SSji, No one see ATHMA, even doctor"s during Heart OPerations, Athma is not visible, but it operates the body in assocation with mind. Body is only carrier, but mind rules and Athma watchs, To understand Athma and merging with Paramathma is to do every day Meditation.While duing Meditation ones Legsfingers started to feelinglessand sensesness. and slowely the whole body will become senseness and like deadbody, that is SAMATHI .Once samathi stage comes he will understand who is he.

sri esarkey

huh!Like a deadbody?Then no consciousness-brain dead.If brain is dead,then 'who' will understand 'who'?as 'self':tape:?:hungry:

sb:frusty:

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri MM Ji,

I chewed a while about whether to respond. Like Vaedalam, you seem to climb up the same tree again and again.

Please carefully read from Chapter ten onwards of the website Srimathi HH Ji provided above on Visishtadwaitha,

I can provide you the same on Dwaitha. But somehow, it seems to me that you will never take off your 'Advaitha' glasses off your eyes. If you sincerely take your Advaitha view from your mind, you will figure out that the interpretations of the Srutis and the seminal Sutra are quite explained by these two Acharyals, including the Maha Vakyas and the Siddhantha.

The problem is, you do not want to accept them as valid. Because, you are evaluating them from the view point of an Advaithin. The reason they both are accepted as rooted in our Srutis is because they are! Visishtadwaitha is Advaitha, with qualifications. Dwaitha uses the Bheda principle, that is ignored by Advaitha. Each one of the three grand views, stand proundly on its own merit.

So, please, before you argue, read up on other views, written by THEIR proponents. You may learn something.

I will not be responding anymore on this. If you are a scholor of our scriptures, then I look forward to you explaining the structures of all of these grand philosophies to us one day. Please don't waste my time reiterating what you keep on saying in your previous postings.

Regards,
KRS

krs

again you go...

i'm not asking or trying to convert anyone or any cult.

I'm simply asking them to explain their siddhantam in the context of Pramana Vakyas.

What is contested here is the " final say ". Upasanas do help to bring maturity to a persons understanding the final say so they have to stay and a must for spiritual ripening just like karma kandams are a must for ripening so too upasana kandams.
then only ripening is possible. please get it straight for one last time.

even before the acharyals establishing the siddantams - cult of worshipping Lord Vishnu as the ParamPorul is there, I've even quoted Mahabharatam for that..

We ourselves came from a Hamlet where Lord Vishnu is looked upon as the ParamPorul. As Smarthas we dedicate all our karmic action to Lord Narayana and Namaskarams to "Keshavam Prati Gachhati..."

......

 

[malgova.mango]

Dwaitha and Vishitadvaitha is already explained by BP

I forget the exact shloka.... but the meaning runs like this.

If I Identify myself as the body , then I'm a Servant to you My Lord, (Dvai)
If I identify myself as the Jeeva , then I'm a part of you My Lord,(VA)

If I identify myself as the Aatma, then there is no difference between You and Me .(A)

So nobody is denying the VA and D.

the context of the whole discussion is what is the "FINAL" say of our Vedaanta.

If VA nd D is the final say of our Vedaanta - then it is an erroneous conclusion... but if the same is used as a means to digest the FINAL vision which is the GRAND FINALE, the CLIMAX of a Jeeva then both are valid.

the crux of the issue is VA and D should not be made as Siddanta as they are not the Anta.

 

[sridharvasudevan]

Dear All,

Assume, I have no formal knowledge about scriptures on Dwaitham or Adwaitham. If such a person's opinion or comments are NOT okay by you, then please ignore what I have written below.

Dwaitham is for the person who sees God or aspires to see God. Once the person has seen God the person relishes in the retaining ones' own identity just in order to continue enjoying the bliss of seeing God.

Adwaitam is for the person who sees God or aspires to see God in oneself. Once the person has realized God the person no more wishes to retain ones' own identity and yearns to merge with God. Because the person believes everything is part of God and thinks by retaining ones' own identity one is continuing to suffer being away from the whole or God.

I believe both are great concepts and both would coexist blissfully well. Just that we cant force chocolate ice cream to a person who wants vanilla ice cream.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri MM Ji,

As I expected, you did not disappoint. I conclude my postings on this topic here.

Regards,
KRS

 

[malgova.mango]

SHRIDHARAVASUDEVAN JI!

THE KNOWLEDGE IS THERE TO KNOW.

TO BELIEVE YOU DON'T NEED ANY ASCERTAINING FACTS.

our antakaranam are divided into 4 realms

- manam
- buddhi
- ahankaram
- chittam

Cognitive PART - BUDDHI - here there is no use for belief , it recognizes only facts through pramanams or factor of ascertainment.

Emotive Part - Manam - this is where belief plays a role. the whole advt. industry is dependent on this factor alone.

Ahankaram - Doership - without this nothing is possible.

Chittam - RECOLLECTION or MEMORY PART.

Regards

 

[s007bala]

re

M M

>>the context of the whole discussion is what is the "FINAL" say of our Vedaanta.<<

The 'FINAL' say of our Vedanta is,'you' have the 'swantantram'to conclude!

sb:hug:

 

[malgova.mango]

EN Paarvai Pole , Un Paarvai Illai..
Naan Kanda Kakshi , Nee Kaanavillai..

Apart from this...
Please refer Sutra - "100% freedom in belief, 100% non-freedom in ascertaining facts"

 

[prpsarathy]

Just a twist from the mythology to the above conversation of advaitha and dvaitha.

In variable advaitha emphasis more on gyana and advaitha on bhakthi, where it states that the jeeva is a slave of the paramatma. But if you read carefully with the bhakti / love, the bhakta had enslaved the bhagavan

Whether krishna being tied by sahadeva or yasodha

In kaliyuga where in pandaripur krishna is standing on a stone for a bhakta "
Thirumazhisai Alwar told to the Perumal that since Kani Kannan is leaving Kanchipuram, he is also going along with him and he asked the Perumal to get up from the Aadhiseshan, the mat of the Perumal to roll it and he wanted the Perumal to join them. As said by the alwar, the Perumal rolled his mat (Aadhiseshan) and all these 3 quit from Kanchi. After the Perumal went out along with the Alwar and Kani Kannan, the entire empire seemed to be dull and all the people feared that the world is going to end."

http://www.divyadesamonline.com/alwars/thirumazhisai-alwar.asp

In advaitha jeeva and parmatma become the same in adviatha, jeeva by his bhakti enslave the parmatma

 

[[email protected]]

To All, Pallukul naaiirrukerathu,atho pol Irivan namakkul irukiran, Milk become curd, and remove fat (Vennai) curd takes 2nd birth as moor, veenaai heated takes another birth as Ghee(Nai) , Ghee cannot become Milk again, athopol than Athma a small drop of the ocean of light. That is nee athu vannai.

 

[[email protected]]

Excelt,s007, Now your are coming to the correct direction about the side of Birth, the god gives every Human,animal ,plants, Fish etc, a birth from the Reserve Karma 80% and Karma,in sanskrit means "doing";action and reaction;cause and effect;reaping what was sownbefore,and harvesting hereafter what we sow now. This is a very brief description of Karma from which can be realized the extreme complexity of its working. Karma forms a vast intricate trap,in which all forms of creation are caught and from which they can find no way of escape. All the methods that people use to free themselves are of no avail. They read scriptures, worship sacres imagesand idols,study philosophy,sing hymna, performreligious ceremonies,attend churches,mandthir,majeith,here sermons,say prayers,go on pilgrimages,keepfasts,give alms,follow codes of morality,do charitable deeds, and think that by these ways they will attain salvation.These are good acts and usefulto a point,but theydo not disentangle and take the soul out from the sphere of karma. Such devotees indeed get their reward, but to receive it they must come back again to the physical plane or, evenif they obtainaccess to astral or mental regions for the enjoyment of those rewords,they haveto come back and bornon this earth afterthe period of enjoyment is over. is there a way out? Yes."Both the Master and the Word represent the Positive Power,and reach us from the spiritual regions to release oursouls from this karmictrap.

 

[s007bala]

srk

Om Sai Nathaya Namaha!

sb

 

[tbs]

srk

Om Sai Nathaya Namaha!

sb

respected sb sir,
i respect you very much...but plz dont put one path/particular way
in common forum....you may like sri satya sai/ammachi very much..
but not every body......pls discuss common way...do not impose
particular path....all paths are genuine to reach ultimate reality...

regards

 

[[email protected]]

To All, All the paths teach us one thing the Paramathma is one.He is omniperson, nameless. We are the people not following the real teachins and started the new way of Spiritual organisations in tne name of the Guru, because every body wnted to head a organisation.That's why today Hundred thosound slp org. Each one calls their org is the best. So one should understand the real meaning and to do so.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri [email protected],

This is a very generalized statement and actually may hurt some sincere people's feelings. I do not think it can be said that all different Gurus and Sambradhayams were sterted by folks who just wanted to head an organization. 'All Paths' mean 'All Paths', as long as they conform to one of the grand 4 Paths prescribed.

Again, there is strength in diversity of thought. Homogeneity is good only for sheep and cattle.

Regards,
KRS

To All, All the paths teach us one thing the Paramathma is one.He is omniperson, nameless. We are the people not following the real teachins and started the new way of Spiritual organisations in tne name of the Guru, because every body wnted to head a organisation.That's why today Hundred thosound slp org. Each one calls their org is the best. So one should understand the real meaning and to do so.

 

[s007bala]

re

Advaita-Vada (unqualified non-dualism or uncompromising or rigorous monism), Visishtadvaita-Vada (differentiated or qualified monism) and Dvaita-Vada (strict or rigorous dualism).

Dualism (Dvaita), Qualified Monism (Visishtadvaita) and Monism (Advaita) are the three main schools of metaphysical thought. They are all stages on the way to the Ultimate Truth, viz., Para-Brahman. They are rungs on the ladder of Yoga. They are not at all contradictory. On the contrary, they are complimentary to one another. These stages are harmoniously arranged in a graded series of spiritual experiences. Dualism, Qualified Monism, Pure Monism—all these culminate eventually in the Advaita Vedantic realisation of the Absolute or the transcendental Trigunatita Ananta Brahman.

http://sbsaraswati.multiply.com/journal/item/97

sb

 

[sarvothaman]

pre supposing

To All, Pallukul naaiirrukerathu,atho pol Irivan namakkul irukiran, Milk become curd, and remove fat (Vennai) curd takes 2nd birth as moor, veenaai heated takes another birth as Ghee(Nai) , Ghee cannot become Milk again, athopol than Athma a small drop of the ocean of light. That is nee athu vannai.

the above presupposes that atma and ocean of light are of the same material,which needs review

 

[[email protected]]

Sri S.Sjiand,Malgoji. Our Indian philosopy is very vast and in detail to understand each one a oerson required One yugam, so earlier 3 yugams the Life span was 10,000, then 5000, and 1000, In this Kaliyuga the Highest life span is 80 plus only so we must that a quicker way to understand the God. That way we should travel. More will flow in a day. S.R.K.