How to counter brahmin bashing??

[sapthajihva]

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Dear vijisesh,

...
How many such amendments / revisions in hindu practices have been approved / ratified by Acharya ji's and even if they have how many of them circulated to reach the hindu families , practising the religion ??
...

Can it not mean that they need not be amended/revised?

Regards,

 

[RVR]

Paramacharya preached against taking dowry long back which is mostly followed by TB community now. Our Gurus can suggest modifications from time to time taking into account changing circumstances which go a long way in reforms in our society. Once our Guru clarifies, then the matter ends then and there.

When the mutts are going for reforms why not devotees.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

Paramacharya preached against taking dowry long back which is mostly followed by TB community now. Our Gurus can suggest modifications from time to time taking into account changing circumstances which go a long way in reforms in our society. Once our Guru clarifies, then the matter ends then and there.

When the mutts are going for reforms why not devotees.

All the best

venkat,

too bad, he did not say, that the boy's side should foot atleast (i mean atleast) 50% of all expenses towards wedding (jewellery, marriage etc..).

also, i think, the duty of mutt head, is not to flow with the times. that is for us ordinary mortals.

the duty of the mutt heads, i think, is to think far ahead of time. have a vision. have values which are just and universal. propagate the values for the good of all hindus. not only community or group.

i think, the mutt heads discussed in this forum, have sadly failed our community, in all these respects.

it is indeed a sad legacy. which is one reason, i think, as a community, we feel that we are floating on a cattamaran in a stormy sea without any sails, compass or paddle.

purely my take. thanks.

 

[anandb]

Dear Kunjippuji,

The Acharya was all for very simple marriage ceremonies which just involved taking the marriage vows with the associated rituals. This automatically excluded man made events like janavasam, nalangu, reception etc. So the costs are automatically cut drastically. He was never for giving/taking jewelery either. Now it is funny that a majority of the brahmin community who were followers of the Acharya never actually practiced his advices, includes me and my family. Now as a follower I feel sad and guilty that I have failed my Acharya whom I revere as a Guru but never have I thought the Acharya has failed me. That is what I have felt proud of our Gurus and our religion, that they have not pronounced fatwas knowing well that a majority of the followers don't practice what they preach. I think just as we expect the Gurus to be a guidepost, we should also behave like true followers. I think the followers or the Bhaktas have been a huge letdown for the gurus.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjippuji,

.... I think the followers or the Bhaktas have been a huge letdown for the gurus.

i agree on that front too

 

[mouli11]

Mr R.Venkataramani has clearly spelt out the best way to approach the issue. It is not only Brahmin bashing but bashing of each religion by someone or other takes place everywhere at all times. There is no need to react for such meaningless bashings.

If one feels comfortable in following those olden customs please go-ahead and follow if one does not feel comfortable just ignore it .The problem comes only when one try to force such customs on others.

Lord Krishna in Bhagavadgita iterates the qualities or duties of a Brahmin as per the Gunas born of their own nature are: Serenity, self-restraint, austerity, purity, forgiveness, uprightness, knowledge, realization, belief in a hereafter.

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji and Anandb ji,

Thanks for your views. Paramacharya was against silk sarees which is not being followed even today. Let us hope that it will be followed in the future.

But it is the duty of the Acharya' s to guide us on a continuous basis. Personally we have a problem which is yet to be solved. We have some jewellery earmarked for our village deity. Since we have left our village, we don't know what to do? We are feeling guilty that we are unable to offer to our village deity regularly. We are just keeping it idle. We are not comfortable at handing over the same to the local priest also.

Proper guidance from Acharya's will definite help me take a right decision. I am unable to talk beyond this.

 

[kunjuppu]

Kunjuppu ji and Anandb ji,

Thanks for your views. Paramacharya was against silk sarees which is not being followed even today. Let us hope that it will be followed in the future.

But it is the duty of the Acharya' s to guide us on a continuous basis. Personally we have a problem which is yet to be solved. We have some jewellery earmarked for our village deity. Since we have left our village, we don't know what to do? We are feeling guilty that we are unable to offer to our village deity regularly. We are just keeping it idle. We are not comfortable at handing over the same to the local priest also.

Proper guidance from Acharya's will definite help me take a right decision. I am unable to talk beyond this.

venkat,

sorry for any intrusion into your private family affairs.

just a train of thought... will it satisfy your conscience, if such jewellery is used to educate a poor youth through college?

sometimes, i have found, personally, that even though the explicit solution may be unfeasible, there are many alternates that would have the same effect, through different results.

again, apologize for the intrusion... thanks.

 

[RVR]

venkat,

sorry for any intrusion into your private family affairs.

just a train of thought... will it satisfy your conscience, if such jewellery is used to educate a poor youth through college?

sometimes, i have found, personally, that even though the explicit solution may be unfeasible, there are many alternates that would have the same effect, through different results.

again, apologize for the intrusion... thanks.

Thanks kunjuppu ji,

I am not treating your views as intrusion. We are considering various aspects including the one which you suggested. Probably during next meeting of our family members, some thing emerge. Let us hope for the best.

 

[Siddhanta]

Pardon me mod, I got too much angry and irritated.

The way I saw it, this thread was started in a controversial manner (the subject is menstruation, women) and I suspected this was done to see women posting their comments and sadistic and sick people enjoy that. This was evident in these words of members.

Why can't we have opinions from women members --so that there can be more authenticity for the discussion--( I am not sure whether any woman member has participated till now). To add a short point,this practice is prevalent-now declining for different reasons - t many places at least in India.

Here women are being invited to participate and also covertly being told to raise such issues in temples.

I recall the essence of Sant Kabir's lines-- Kuyils will stop singing when Crows enter the durbar and start crowing

This is an indirect way of telling kuyils (women) will not reply to this thread when crows (me) start protesting.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

How to counter Brahmin Bashing

Namaskarams

I post this in clarification to msg 60 by siddhanta,as he has quoted from my posting in msg 40.

I feel siddhanta has got my points wrong.

My call was clear:: to discontinue the self defeating and controversial thread ,and concentrate on general matters concerning Brahmin community as a whole. I have explained there how the original intention of the initiator got derailed. In fact thru my responses to various threads elsewhere in this site, I have been repeatedly appealing for putting a stop to unnecessary discussions-many of them ‘Aracha Maavu”.

Thru the posting lines which siddhanta quoted , I intended only to convey that

1) As the matter is one that directly affects women in person and as a social group, men discussing it is not proper and authentic.

2) by Kuyils and Crows allusion, I only meant to convey that the real authorities ,like medical personnel, Social reforming groups etc who have knowledge on this and have first hand expertise on both medical, anatomical and social sides, I felt they are not responding (Kuyils) but random reactions are there.(Kuyils are generally alluded for flawless voice and Crows for cacophony)

3)Pointing of external examples where this is prevalent :: was only to remove the impression that Brahmins only are the perpetrators of this. I could have listed with explanations many other examples. But I curtailed ,as I did not want this particular topic prolonged.,. The topic is as irritating to me as siddhanta.,and probably many others.

Still I appeal same.
I think I have made clear .

 

[guruprasadtr]

Thanks for all the members who took their precious time and gave their 2 cents on this subject..

Though this topic has deviated from the original topic of whether women are banned from public worship places to family norms and whether they are justified.. I was able to come to the following conclusions

1.That though this practice is prevailant across all Hindu castes.
2. Though some temples especially ones of bachelor gods (Iyyappan)and another instance in Maharashtra, women all together are banned (whether they have periods or not).
3. No rule exists as such to prevent entry of women during periods in temples. (From the previous point it is assumed that if a temple allows women they do not mind women during periods).

I understand the moderator's role in this form and I do not have any complaints.. Although i want to request the moderators to use some other color than red font because.. it is a general notion that red font denotes warning or danger.

Thanks,
Guru

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you guru.

it is very nice to see you participate and hopefully more formatted bits and bytes will emanate through your fingers

i agree with you that bold red is frightening. i find it abrupt myself, after posting.

but in the context of moderation job, i think, a hint of the stick is needed, don't you think?

i do apologize if you felt a rude welcome. hopefully that feeling has passed, and you are now able to settle comfortably in the forum.

re how topics flow from head to tail, each topic gets a life of its own after a while. i am always fascinated by the turn of the post into something quite different from what its originator had meant it to be.

ultimately, this sentiment may also serve as a fitting epitaph for any of man's creation.

best regards...

 

[akura]

ஆக இது ஒரு குடும்பம்

ஊடலும் கூடலும் இயற்கை அப்பா
ஆக இது ஒரு குடும்பம் . கோபங்கள் ,தாபங்கள்
சமாதானங்கள் இயற்கை . குழந்தையை தாய்
தூக்கிப் போட்டு பிடிக்கும் போது குழந்தை பயப்படுவதில்லை .
குழந்தைக்கு தெரியும் தாய் பிடித்துக் கொள்வாள் என.
-------
This is a family . all feelings get settled within. When mother
throws the child up , the child knows that mother will surely
catch her.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Namaskarams,

Sri Sankaranarayanan,

I feel you should have been more subtle in your post, especially on a controversial and emotional topic. Pointing to names ,is may have its own side effects.Or you should have documented authority.

Leaving that,the points is:
Hinduism has its own inbuilt strength. But this is not automatic.It is due to the grest persevering work put in by not only our (present and past) Gurus,Acharyas,Scholars,Priests, genuine researchers, but also by the conviction and sacrifices by the dedicated and devoted masses,majority by poor laymen and women.

In the earlier days the enemies were also resortin to fair methods.But today the methods any and many,instruments of attack are sophisticated.Hence reaction and defence also should be able to meet those challenges. The Dam has to be strenghthened to check for not just small leaks but for better resilience to sudden onslaught of pressure.

Warning on the wall: Nepal was a ---“and the only”--- declared Hindu State.


Greetings

 

[Nara]

... i think, a hint of the stick is needed, don't you think?

Hello!

I realize you are just doing your job, but, sorry to say, I am still not able to get used to this menacing red letter warnings, reminiscent of bloody retribution, too quick to come down on anyone suspected of a hint of wrongdoing a la Cheney's 1% doctrine, or worse, guilty until proven innocent (your words not mine).

I know, this is a privately owned forum and you make the rules for the benefit of us children.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Let us not talk ill of late Sri YSR. He is a born christian since his late grandfather converted during British days.

Under YSR, Andhra Government brought an order that propagation of other religions is banned within a certain radius of Tirupathi-Tirumala and few other temples.

When HH Jayendra Saraswathi was arrested in Andhra, he issued a statement in pain stating that he has no other option except following constitutional obligations.

YSR secular irrespective of his faith.

 

[nageshmahadevan]

Brahmin Customs

I want to start a thread to report instances of brahmin bashing on the web and discuss how to counter such hate rhetoric. I request you friends to report such instances here and exchange ideas on how to counter them.

I want to bring one such instance to your notice where a collegemate of mine was blaming us.

She is a daughter of a DK member /atheist. Her argument was that it was the fault of brahmins that women who are having monthly periods are not allowed to enter temples.

I replied that no such restriction exists in temples and it was the wish of the devotees that they did not go to temples during such a time, probably because they did not feel clean and avoided going to temples out of reverence to gods who them hold in high esteem. No matter how much i argued, i could not convince her and we do not get along well after that.

Please put in your comments on this incident or if you had experienced similar situations

Thanks,
Guru

Dear Guru

This issue has been a matter of controversy, besides other issues among the Tamil Brahmin Community. Examples of other issues are
#Can we light a kuthivilakku using cigarette lighter?
#Is it alright for a Brahmin to eat egg?
#Should Brahmins indeed live in countries outside India where Vegetarian food is not available and hence compromise on vegetarianism?

As regards Brahmin women abstaining from sacred places and refraining from austerities during monthly periods, I wish to bring to your notice that this practice was prevalent even among the ancient Jewish women. Nevertheless the Jewish women were commanded to abstain from sacred duties during monthly periods by the God of Israel through His prophet Moses and it is found written and recorded in the book of Leviticus in the Old Testament. Incidentally many of the Brahmin practices are found written in the Old Testament which will unfold many interesting facts which may help trace the origin of Brahmins. I suggest you visit the site www.appiusforum.com which will throw some light on this matter.

It is interesting to note that the Israelites were divided into 12 tribes after the 12 sons of Israel, whose initial name was Jacob, who happens to be the grandson of Abraham, the father of the Hebrews. Of these 12 tribes, the tribe of Levi were chosen to perform the priestly duties of the Israelites. Many of the practices of the Levites, which is also recorded in the first five books of Old Testament, have a striking resemblance to the practices of the Brahmins in India.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Kozhi kuruduinnallum,kuzambu rusiya innu mattum paarpathu Hinduism...
Kozhi kurudunnalluum paravaiyillai...Hilal panni Conversion panni sappidanum ingarathu avanga Policy....
Which is right ?
Just think...
Nenjukku keezha poona yarunnalum Naragal thaan..
appuram yenna vendiirukku Conversion Formalities...?

 

[RVR]

Please read the following news item

Tirupati gets Special Religious Zone status

Late Sri YSR under a special government order of AP government gave special religious status for Tirupathi and few other places worship.

Christian groups distributed their pamphlets to those standing in the Q at Tirumala. YSR intervened and passed the above order. We have to appreciate YSR for the above

 

[sathya71]

Its a respect to the women we gave

Dear Guru Sir,

Namaskaram

We have to accept some beliefs added into our customs having no reasons but most of our customs definitely have the genuine reasons since our dharma is a way of life.

As in that time womens feels week due to the nature our customs allowed them to take rest from their routine works even they need not participate in poojas. So our ancestors respected them and asked them to take rest. They showed their humanity towards them.

And we accept the rules when it is in the name of god, hence they mainly give the restriction for poojas. Since all the day our works related to the god so they have to stay away from the works.

Hats off to our ancestors.

My request to the elders please do not teach the rules alone to the younger generation, please keep patience to teach us the reasons also.

Namaskarams
Sathya

I want to start a thread to report instances of brahmin bashing on the web and discuss how to counter such hate rhetoric. I request you friends to report such instances here and exchange ideas on how to counter them.

I want to bring one such instance to your notice where a collegemate of mine was blaming us.

She is a daughter of a DK member /atheist. Her argument was that it was the fault of brahmins that women who are having monthly periods are not allowed to enter temples.

I replied that no such restriction exists in temples and it was the wish of the devotees that they did not go to temples during such a time, probably because they did not feel clean and avoided going to temples out of reverence to gods who them hold in high esteem. No matter how much i argued, i could not convince her and we do not get along well after that.

Please put in your comments on this incident or if you had experienced similar situations

Thanks,
Guru

 

[RVR]

sathya ji,

you may be correct. Forced rest for three days will give our ladies lot of energy during the remaining period. Those days when joint family concept was very much prevalent,. There was no supporting kitchen aids like mixie, grinder, gas stove, cooker, washing machine etc.

Today the concept has changed. There are very few joint families.There are variety of appliances in the home making cooking & other work much simpler. Eating out is a regular practice in most of the families. Hence rest may not be required like olden days.

 

[venkatpasupathy]

shri Venkataramaniji,
True let us not talk ill about the dead. But Shri YSR was a public figure and so there would be criticism. As for the secularism practiced by the political parties,especially by the Congress and the communists, less said the better. Venkat

 

[RVR]

shri Venkataramaniji,
True let us not talk ill about the dead. But Shri YSR was a public figure and so there would be criticism. As for the secularism practiced by the political parties,especially by the Congress and the communists, less said the better. Venkat

Thanks Venkatpasupathi ji,

YSR really did some thing to stop the christian adventurism at Tirumala. We have to acknowledge it. He also behaved in a much decent manner when HH Jayendra saraswathi was arrested in Andhra.

Let us give credit when our politicians behave properly irrespective of party affiliation.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

T.S.Sankara Narayanan,

please treat this as a warning against postings which are in bad taste.

your recent post re ysr not only, i find, offensive in its wording, but goes against the very essence of a tolerant hinduism.

also, i do not think, to malign the dead, in the manner you did, is fitting of any decent human.

one more such post, and you will be banned.