How to counter brahmin bashing??

[venkatpasupathy]

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Brahmin bashing,
Brahmin bashing is a sport in our country, especially in Tamilnadu. The influence of dravidian caste politics is very strong in tamilnadu. One cannot really expect any rational discussion on any matter. A myth has been created that brahmins oppressed other communities for thousands of years. The brahmin bashing in tamilnadu reached the zenith during the last 70 to 80 years. Venkat

 

[kunjuppu]

now that this thread has attracted so many replies, can the thread initiator, shri guruprasad, say something (sir, you have not posted or contributed anything to the thread you started so far).

as moderator, i will follow up with guru. he owes a reply to this forum.

 

[B V RAAGHAVAN]

Dear All, Namaskarams,
Brahmana Dwesham, the 'so called' aethisets are playing double games. He speaks publicly one thing and on the other hand, he performs all pujas and other rituals with a pandit in his house. Each and every DK and DMK person performs rituals in his house. This is going on years together. For the outside world he is an aeithist.

The God smiles within HIM and so we.
Regards
Raaghavan

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Why to point to particularly about X or Y ? If we say so then we will be also doing same 'dwesham" to somebody. Over the years I find that others have become enlightened and many people have found the tricks played by vested interests in Brahmin bashing.. Many times these tricks are done to gain mass support.It is a psychological game. In private, the same persons will be gentlemen. But it is to be admitted that the brahmana dwesham has come down very much compared to earlier times, and now mostly restricted to people following some certain political/communal ideology for their earnings (Vayathupozhappu & existence)
Sri Cho Ramaswamy is one we can follow in this regard (his many writings) to get more light on this matter with contemporary relevance.

 

[Eastern Mind]

I've seen (more heard) Brahmin bashing, although I am a non Brahmin. It seems that some people respect the Brahmin for what they do in the temples, yet think they don't do it right, or should live in poverty. Many Brahmin priests on this side of the ocean are abused by the new temples. Not all. I defend the Brahmin every chance I get. When its suggested they do nothing for their pay, I usually askor suggest. "Well, then maybe you'd like to train as a pandaram for a couple of years, and take over. Obviously, you'd do a much better job." (I do have the experience of being a pandaram for about 4 years so know a bit about the expereince. On one hand, its a pedestal, on the other hand its slavery). You can guess the answer. But as anything else along these lines, it is overgeneralising to judge any section of people as a ewhole. Firstly, there should be no judging at all. Secondly, if you must, do it on individual merit, not based on your limited encounters of a few souls.

Aum namasivaya

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Thank you Eastern mind,
As I pointed in my earlier note, there are persons like you, who are convinced and who do their part to see reason and properly guide misguided individuals.
We need such mature minds in society for many good deeds.

 

[guruprasadtr]

guru,
please note, that we will monitor this thread carefully.
we do not want this thread to turn into a political or social platform. neither do we want this to be a plank to heap abuse on fellow tamil hindu communities.
there are always extremes in any society. your experience is from an extreme of one kind.
you have to come to terms, that there are certain folks, who will never see reason.
hopefully, we see some positive and constructive suggestions here for you from other members.
we hope that this thread does not become a receptacle of who has a more horror story than the next.
guru, also, in order to exhibit your good faith, we the moderators, expect you to comment, react to many of the comments that may be posted here. so, please monitor replies and comment on them.
thank you.

Wao.. Thanks for the warm welcome moderator.. I do not know what bad experiences you had in the past but your post is no shorter than a threat and is unwarranted.

As for the other member who had replied to my thread... I thank you all for your comments. I saw a number of posts stating how this practice is prevailant in families and some have justified this custom. However i would like to say that these are all family 'norms' something that either the women themselves choose to follow or they are asked to follow by their family members. I would like to know is there any instance any where if this norm is ENFORCED by a third person in a public place like a temple. And how are the Brahmin community guilty of this?

 

[guruprasadtr]

guru,
you might have noticed that there are lots of responses to the thread that you started
please provide your feedback asap, as it is only fair to other members for responding to your initial post.
failure to do so, will involve follow up actions by the moderators, including banning this user id.
thank you for your cooperation.

I fail to understand how I am hurting you by not replying. i did not get any personal question from anybody. Can sombody please enlighten me why i have to respond just for the sake of responding?

I joined this form to find like minded people and was looking forward to lively debate. I feel threatened by these messages by the moderator and feel they are trying to control too much.

 

[kunjuppu]

I fail to understand how I am hurting you by not replying. i did not get any personal question from anybody. Can sombody please enlighten me why i have to respond just for the sake of responding?

I joined this form to find like minded people and was looking forward to lively debate. I feel threatened by these messages by the moderator and feel they are trying to control too much.

guru,

there is no threat from the moderators.

we consider as part of our function here to maintain the integrity of this forum.

if you only go through some of the posts, we have many mischief makers, who for fun sake, open up a controversial or damaging topic, and sit aside and watch the fun.

more often than not, these are one time visitors, or visitors, who take on a unique i.d each time they instigate a foray.

the letter to you was clear enough explaining this situation, i hope.

moreover, there are people who have replied to you. it is only courtesy, especially considering that you are novice here, to acknowledge the efforts and the goodwill bestowed on.

if this is not warm welcome, i beg to differ with your take on the moderator role.

thank you.

 

[Eastern Mind]

guruprasad: I totally agree with the moderators. You started the topic. You suggested there should be debate, and discussion. But then when others started discussing, you didn't say anything. I, for one, countered your basic premise with my views on the topic. Isn't this the same thing as saying, "let's talk about it," to your spouse of friend, and then when they voice something, you yourself have nothing to say.

The moderators are also very right in their statement that troublemakers do come on just for that. I've been in other forums where it happens, and if there are no moderators, it soon turns into a shouting match. So they're just doing their job. You also spoke against a long standing tradition of Tamil culture, so there is lots of reason for them to be cautious.

Imagine if I went on to a Christian forum, and said, "I'm a Hindu, and Christ didn't exist, and if he did he was a homosexual and a pedophile and a drunk to boot." First of all, I would be just trolling, and secondly the moderators would kick me off as soon as possible, and so they should. If not, I guarantee you there would be anti-Hindu vile words spoken back at me. Then the forum would totally lose its focus.

Thank you to all the moderators here.

Aum Namasivaya

 

[RVR]

sri guruprasad ji,

You started a thread on a topic which is going on for several decades. It is nothing new in Tamilnadu. Inspite of provokings, our community was not reacting since we know our limitations. Several members were expressing their views which you should have acknowledged and probably complimented with your further views on the matter. Keeping silent after opening a thread, particularly after several members have contributed to your thread, will not help in healthy interactions. You have made moderators to intervene and remind you about this thread. Moderators are just doing their duty and please don't blame them for that.

Please continuously monitor your thread and contribute to the thread regularly.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Guruprasad,

Thankyou for responding. I second Shri Kunjuppu ji's notes.

If you wish to start a discussion, it is but natural to expect that you will be a part of it.

Infact was thinking of suggesting to the moderators if in case a thread-initiator does not follow his thread up, wud it be a good idea to simply delete the whole thread. In this way, those whose interest in a topic is just a fleeting one with no basis, or the kind that want to make mischief, will learn that its not easy to simply start a thread and disappear.

Regards.

 

[[email protected]]

to All: I fully agree with Happy Hindu and Moderators, mr,Guru started a wrong topic. s.r.k.

 

[Siddhanta]

As for the other member who had replied to my thread... I thank you all for your comments. I saw a number of posts stating how this practice is prevailant in families and some have justified this custom. However i would like to say that these are all family 'norms' something that either the women themselves choose to follow or they are asked to follow by their family members. I would like to know is there any instance any where if this norm is ENFORCED by a third person in a public place like a temple. And how are the Brahmin community guilty of this?

I suspect conspiracy in this. I would advice this thread being deleted because i feel irritated to such stuff. First of all when something is a tradition, we follow it. It is like wearing slippers into a temple. If it is a tradition, we follow it, nobody questions it due to our own respect towards our Gods.

I have seen on other Hindu forums, non Hindus in disguise start threads like these and they keep providing these links to their community to show how ignorant we are. I wouldnt discuss anything regarding this thread, the thread itself is controversial. According to the topic, it is brahmin bashing, i thought it has something to do with criticizing brahmin tradition or so but it was a cover up to bring up this issue and this issue is not of Brahmins according to my knowledge. This tradition is strictly followed by all Hindus irrespective whether they are a brahmin or not.

My humble advice is this thread be deleted or please do not discuss on this any further (on menstruation and going to temples).

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

brahmin bashing....original thread from guruprasadtr

I want to start a thread to report instances of brahmin bashing on the web and discuss how to counter such hate rhetoric. I request you friends to report such instances here and exchange ideas on how to counter them.

I want to bring one such instance to your notice where a collegemate of mine was blaming us.

She is a daughter of a DK member /atheist. Her argument was that it was the fault of brahmins that women who are having monthly periods are not allowed to enter temples.

I replied that no such restriction exists in temples and it was the wish of the devotees that they did not go to temples during such a time, probably because they did not feel clean and avoided going to temples out of reverence to gods who them hold in high esteem. No matter how much i argued, i could not convince her and we do not get along well after that.

Please put in your comments on this incident or if you had experienced similar situations

Thanks,
Guru

Dear all members, Pls see how a nice intended intiative took different turns and now has totally deviated into something not expected or aimed by the iniiator or moderators.

Guruprasad's point was that he could not convince the person who taunted him with convincing arguments.He probably thought other members may come with strong convincing points to counter such taunts and bashngs. Bu alas !! things got strayed into different territories.

My humble request to all who participated, and wish to participate (including guruprasd) is that let us come back to mai track and resume positive discussion.We welcome interludes from initiator as well as moderators. It is just as that when watching a crowded festival etc, the crowd unintentionally surges ahead, breaking barriers, and then the volunteer or policeman tries to push back them inside the lines.So let us not have unnecessary hurt feelings or ego. When harvest is brought in, it will have chaff,gass,mud etc.It is for us to segregate them and grade them and make it to our best needed use. It is just like that. Let different opinions come from different people.At least they are not sitting idle they are actively participating.That itself is a good sign.

Now regarding the periods matter can we just forget it for now and concentrate on the general matter of brahmin bashing. Why can't we have opinions from women members --so that there can be more authenticity for the discussion--( I am not sure whether any woman member has participated till now). To add a short point,this practice is prevalent-now declining for different reasons - t many places at least in India. I saw a notice in one of the temples in (Muktidham if I remeber correctly)Nashik,Mahrashtra before a Karthikeya deity sanctum that " ladies please excuse".I saw women nodding understandingly and keeping off that place.In Maharshtra itself, Sani Singanapur temple ,ladies are not allowed to be close to the idol as men only can pour oil to bathe the idol.

So let us leave it like that. These specialities or deviations from the streotype ,only, makes life varied .Such specialities -whether one may accept it as right or wrong as per one's perceptions and tastes and familiarities will be there in different parts of the world, different communities etc. I see photos flashed in newspapers and magazines wherein our most secular and rationalist personalities sport head cap, scarf or some such thing around their heads ,or body when they visit certain worship places.Or for that matter when they take food offering after a fast at certain gatherings. Thes appear to be mandatory there..We are not questioning that. Let us respect that as a special feature. The magnanimous and broadminded accept that with heir wisdom.

f I recall the essence of Sant Kabir's lines-- Kuyils will stop singing when Crows enter the durbar and start crowing-- .

Cheers and welcome back all !!!

 

[Siddhanta]

Dear Sri Siddhanta Ji,

We do not care about whatsoever about your ancestry as long as you follow the Forum rules. You are making a wild and unsubstantiated accusation against a fellow member. Please explain your highlighted comment below. If you can not properly explain, please consider that you are in jeopardy of continuing as a member of this Forum.

Regards,
KRS

I have been visiting Hindu forums, and there are more imposters (Those from other Religions in disguise) than the actual members(Hindus). But whereas in other religious forums it is impossible for an imposter to survive, they ban that person immediately. I wanted to find out how strong the brahmin community is, but unfortunately, even they have fallen into the wrath of Kali Yuga. This is part of my research, and i am done with, i have provided most information i wanted to provide here.

I was a non brahmin and i was criticizing brahmins and insulting them on their traditions, thinking Hinduism is only a myth. But the ones who were promoting such criticisms covertly are the non-Hindus. When brahminism is wiped out, it is easier to wipe out Hinduism.

Now i realise my folly, for i listened to such people and criticized brahmins. Now i myself adopted to the brahmin way of life and i see a lot of imposters, it is easier to disguise on forums. These imposters Kiss the backs(spelt as A-double S in American slang) of each other. The previous POST by an imposter is a precise example of that act.

Thanks and Goodbye.

 

[pannvalan]

I am joining the debate over the women in their mensus period, after many of the members have expressed their views. Even though I am late, please permit me to say some words on this.

1. Let us all first understand and accept that God is not against anything that
occurs naturally. Mensturation being no exception, women in their mensus period
are not prevented or not to be prevented from attending to the daily routine
including cooking, serving etc. in addition to worshipping Him, in a manner they
like. Men have no say in this.

2. As one of the members has rightly observed, women in their periods lose much
of their energy and become dull and depressed and they do sulking and snarling,
if they are compelled to do what they have been doing regularly, during this time
too. But, if they themselves opt to do whatever they want, let them be allowed
and their freedom need not be curtailed.

3. Regarding personal hygiene, in those days, sanitary napkins did not enter our
country and many were following their own ways to tackle the bleeding. Now,
with the personal hygiene being ensured, where is the objection to their doing
cooking, puja etc.?

4. Since the women need rest and extra energy supplements during this period, they
must be provided with these, to the extent they require.

5. The stigma attached to mensturation must go and we brahmins should not
have any inhibitions whatsoever in this regard.

 

[vaisita77]

Namaskarams,

As per the Gynec, a woman during periods, consistently register a lower temperature and sericulturists do not allow their menstruating women near the pupa of the silk worms, as there is a sudden lowering of the surounding temperature and the pupa dies. Similarly, apart from being unclean during the 3-5 days a menstruating women has the capacity to bring down the sanctity of the Idol in a temple and its positive vibrations, for which a constant temperature is a necessity.

Both in the case of the silk worm and the Idol in the temples, a sudden change in the ambient temperature, would result in the death of the pupa and the lessening of the Sannithyam (vitality) of the Idol in the temple.

Even during the period they are not allowed to do any garden work also because many flower plants in the garden may also wither because of their nearness and some people may be having Thulasi also in the Garden.

So far my seniors used to advise and I have been following strictly without querying ' Why, and what ' (may be Mooda nambikai)

Warm regards,

Vaidhyanathan
For all I know, it has nothing to do with Brahminism but everything to do with a woman, whether a Brahmin or a shudra. [ Adapted from Taliyola by Dr. Venganoor Balakrishnan.]

 

[kunjuppu]

Infact was thinking of suggesting to the moderators if in case a thread-initiator does not follow his thread up, wud it be a good idea to simply delete the whole thread. In this way, those whose interest in a topic is just a fleeting one with no basis, or the kind that want to make mischief, will learn that its not easy to simply start a thread and disappear.

Regards.

happy,

i am not in favour of that across the board.

deleting the thread, would be to obilterate the contribution of member and those are highly valued in this forum. also they form a historical base for others to build on.

the right thing is to remind the initiator of his obligation, which is what i did re guru.

it is good guru gave his reaction to my cautions. maybe we can come up with alternatives.

when first time members initiate an odd post, this comes up in my mental radar and i follow its progress, particularly with an eye on the novice initiator. i think it is taking advantage of the good will of the forum for voyeurism, if the initiator does not participate.

thank you

 

[happyhindu]

Even during the period they are not allowed to do any garden work also because many flower plants in the garden may also wither because of their nearness and some people may be having Thulasi also in the Garden.

Sir,

I do not know about sannithyam and silk worms.

But i can assure you that plants do not wither if a menstruating female tends to them.

I did gardening all thru my teenage years...working with plants and bring surrounded by greenery was esp relaxing during the menstruation times. And all my plants grew well (including the many tulasi plants).


Dear Sri Kunjuppu ji,

Thanks for the reply above. Wud it be a good idea to get everyone who registers / participates here to fill up a more detailed (compulsory) form with contact details (with the IP address logged in), but not publishing the details online (that is, not publishing it next to the person's handlename on the forum).

Regards.

 

[kunjuppu]

happy,

i find vaisita's views an extreme point, to be disruptive.

this, as a member of the forum.

as a moderator, i have warned this person.

while we cannot demand bona fides, as people can lie through their teeth in their application.

the only recourse and this involves patience, is to wait, watch and disprove frauds, from the viewpoints of this forum.

the biggest hurt are those among the most sincere and honest.

i hope,that my wee mite is to watch out.

in this forum, i think, contrary to the anglo concept of justice that one is innocent unless proven guilty,

i would go for the napoleonic code..

that one is guilty, unless proven innocent...

God Bless you happy..

very fondly

 

[RVR]

menstruating women

I think too much of time is being spent on a natural phenomena. Men folks here have to realise that they are born to a mother. Apart from wife, they may have sisters. They may have daughters also.

In the village, our family use to strictly follow the customs. My mother and sisters don't come near the living place at all and practically live in place meant for cattle for three days. Fellow community ladies use to assist in cooking at our home. After migrating to City, we gave up all the above practices. My wife is still cooking during the periods. She will not go near pooja room and I only attend to the pooja room work including Nevadyam of fruits. She will sleep in a separate mat. Since there is no other person to assist, we have been adopting this practice for almost 25 years. My parents use to object, but I can't help it. However for the past few years, my daughter is put on quarantine during the three days. She makes fun of us that different rules are applied to her.

Customs and practices changes according to place and time. Let us leave it at that.

All the best

 

[pannvalan]

I don't approve of the practice of asking the womenfolks in their periods to stay aloof in a secluded place (quarantine?). It is uncivilsed manners and not in tune with modern times, insofar as the rapid progress achieved in science and technology.

All the reasons for this outdated practice has no scientific basis. And if you say all Vaisita has written here, people in other nations will laugh.

I am not personally convinced that it is a fair and just practice, by any yardstick.

 

[sapthajihva]

Nobody here, in my opinion, is an authority on the shasthras and competent enough to challenge it. The mere fact that WE do not think that this practice is civilized, does not, in any way denigrate the shasthric injunctions. If someone does not want to practice it as they think it inconvenient, it is their take.

My request is not to make a sweeping generalization.

I agree with most of shri kunjuppu's views on various issues. But his take on shasthric practices stem, probably, from his dismal experiences over the years. And changes emanating from extreme experiences, without properly understanding (or even try to understand) the issue is purposeless.

If something were to be changed, there are mutt gurus who are quite capable of doing it. Instead of trying to be revolutionary here, in this forum, please pose this to your acharya and seek his explanation.

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Sapthajihva ji,

I understand that whenever it comes to discussions about " Root beliefs , practices & principles " of an individual , there has to be a spontaneous retaliation , in case of disagreement.
In the context here , a mere discussion is not going to influence the lives of any of our families unless we want them to !
I agree to your remark to seek consensus of Acharya ji's , as they hold the authority for amendments / clarifications , but then let's be practical !
How many such amendments / revisions in hindu practices have been approved / ratified by Acharya ji's and even if they have how many of them circulated to reach the hindu families , practising the religion ??
We have been evolving over generations , adapting ourselves to changes in the global society , but the amplitude of adaptation varies from one family to another !
My opinion is to take what we feel comfortable with and live life merrily rather than getting into a tussle to find why this went that way and why that didn't !