Discussions on J.Krishnamurti

[renuka]

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True. Who decide who is unfai or fair?

You decided by saying those in India are not really seekers.

 

[sravna]

Nature decides what is fair or unfair. No planning and dodging possible. What time is ripe for great souls to descend will so be decided by Nature. Then intoxication of money and power will give way.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

You decided by saying those in India are not really seekers.

That is your perception. Seekers will be seeking without asking and will find the guide. Guessing about is not useful to others. There is always an exception - extremely rare event. Like Ramana found hi swife as Devi and woshipped her.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

You decided by saying those in India are not really seekers.

Does that imply that those Hindus (or others) outside India are not seekers? With a recent survey 99% Indians like to lie, bribe etc. and thus the very rare few will not seek openly. They will find. So, this is an exclusive "OR" - true or false and not both incluside OR - true , false and in-between. The semantics is subject to interpretation and no one claims that their view is the only one correct. But based on extensive travel in India and meeting many scholars, this is the impression I got.

 

[sravna]

The purpose of philosophers should not be to sprout more views but deepen and at the same time simplify ideas already in existence. All that needs to be said have already been said. We only need to understand better. The philosophers task is to make them reach the common man and not just engage in academic or high brow arguments.

I believe Adi Sankara clinched it all in philosophy with his Advaita theory. No body is going to say anything better.

 

[renuka]

The purpose of philosophers should not be to sprout more views but deepen and at the same time simplify ideas already in existence. All that needs to be said have already been said. We only need to understand better. The philosophers task is to make them reach the common man and not just engage in academic or high brow arguments.

I believe Adi Sankara clinched it all in philosophy with his Advaita theory. No body is going to say anything better.

From my understanding philosophy has to end for realization to be experienced.

"Ignorance is bliss " is to be experienced.
Ignorance here isnt a mode of inertia but rather a state where one has surrendered the intellect and becomes a conduit.

In this state, the intellect does not " think" but it " receives" the input and relays it as an when needed.
One realizes that one is not the thinker nor the original thought nor the intelligence.

One realizes that he gains jnaana only through being " ignorant" as in having a calm mind sans thought waves..then jnaana flashes in this calm sea without waves..one witnesses jnaana but never takes credit for it because one knows that NOT one's thought.

 

[renuka]

Does that imply that those Hindus (or others) outside India are not seekers? With a recent survey 99% Indians like to lie, bribe etc. and thus the very rare few will not seek openly. They will find. So, this is an exclusive "OR" - true or false and not both incluside OR - true , false and in-between. The semantics is subject to interpretation and no one claims that their view is the only one correct. But based on extensive travel in India and meeting many scholars, this is the impression I got.

Its your impression as you have rightly mentioned.
Btw you wrote the survey showed that 99% like to bribe and lie?
Where was the survey done? In Hell?

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Its your impression as you have rightly mentioned.
Btw you wrote the survey showed that 99% like to bribe and lie?
Where was the survey done? In Hell?

I will post the link.

 

[sravna]

Its your impression as you have rightly mentioned.
Btw you wrote the survey showed that 99% like to bribe and lie?
Where was the survey done? In Hell?

Or can it with high level of confidence be said it is a lie

 

[sravna]

I have not seen any other national as self loathing and as servile to white man as the majority of we Indians. Shameful

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Its your impression as you have rightly mentioned.
Btw you wrote the survey showed that 99% like to bribe and lie?
Where was the survey done? In Hell?
I had deleted the article that gave full details with % of response from a national survey done from Delhi. by mistake. Here are others:

​

Holly Bolly India

www.myindianstory.com

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/caste-matters-despite-the-great-indian-lie-1.655588

Does Indian Society Train Indians to Cheat and Lie? - Brightwork Research & Analysis

India is a society that has created broadscale cheating and deception. Now that millions of Indians live in the US, and other European based countries, these deceptive tactics are impacting non-Indians in a major way.

www.brightworkresearch.com

The numbers lie

Under-reporting of persons involved in manual scavenging reflects state apathy, societal bias. Policy must address this

indianexpress.com

10 Of The Biggest Lies That Had India Fooled - ScoopWhoop

How many times have you read or been told things that turn out to be false? How many times did we find things to be untrue and were taken aback, because we heard stories and [...]

www.scoopwhoop.com

The point is not that there good decent and loving people in India, but the % is low.

Also, if we do not accept our short comings and self analysis and accept the mistakes, we can not correct them to progress. Our shortcomings slowly crept in due political, economical, casts and other intertwined facts of life with 128 crore people with different languages, region etc. This is not an ordinary problem and in general, when people pray not many ask to be not reborn, rather ask for material benefits. Fear of GOD - when He or She is supposed to be embodiment of Love and does not interfere in one's life like a typical human being, who can come and change them. Jaggi Vasudev, and others have very limited influence since their past is always questioned.

So, we have two group of people in India - GOD will take care of every thing and we don't have to anything to the society; self seekers. That is fine for intellectual discussions, but how will it change the seekers?

Seekers in general, do not come to the forums and participate in discussions, rather will be searching for their guide without any advertisement. Yes they may exists but not to be seen by self centered people. With both Christian preachers attacking Hinduism and Muslims( in the North supporting Pakistan indirectly), a new Guru has to be both a politician and a spiritual leader. Hinduism without any apex authority can not handle this situation. But every one has the right and entitlement for their own believes and I am not questioning any one.​

 

[Mani_Chennai]

I will post the link.

I had deleted the article that gave full details with % of response from a national survey done from Delhi. by mistake. Here are others:

Holly Bolly India

www.myindianstory.com

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/caste-matters-despite-the-great-indian-lie-1.655588

Does Indian Society Train Indians to Cheat and Lie? - Brightwork Research & Analysis

India is a society that has created broadscale cheating and deception. Now that millions of Indians live in the US, and other European based countries, these deceptive tactics are impacting non-Indians in a major way.

www.brightworkresearch.com

The numbers lie

Under-reporting of persons involved in manual scavenging reflects state apathy, societal bias. Policy must address this

indianexpress.com

10 Of The Biggest Lies That Had India Fooled - ScoopWhoop

How many times have you read or been told things that turn out to be false? How many times did we find things to be untrue and were taken aback, because we heard stories and [...]

www.scoopwhoop.com

Its your impression as you have rightly mentioned.
Btw you wrote the survey showed that 99% like to bribe and lie?
Where was the survey done? In Hell?

I had deleted the article that gave full details with % of response from a national survey done from Delhi. by mistake. Here are others:

Holly Bolly India

www.myindianstory.com

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/caste-matters-despite-the-great-indian-lie-1.655588

Does Indian Society Train Indians to Cheat and Lie? - Brightwork Research & Analysis

India is a society that has created broadscale cheating and deception. Now that millions of Indians live in the US, and other European based countries, these deceptive tactics are impacting non-Indians in a major way.

www.brightworkresearch.com

The numbers lie

Under-reporting of persons involved in manual scavenging reflects state apathy, societal bias. Policy must address this

indianexpress.com

10 Of The Biggest Lies That Had India Fooled - ScoopWhoop

How many times have you read or been told things that turn out to be false? How many times did we find things to be untrue and were taken aback, because we heard stories and [...]

www.scoopwhoop.com

The point is not that there good decent and loving people in India, but the % is low.

Also, if we do not accept our short comings and self analysis and accept the mistakes, we can not correct them to progress. Our shortcomings slowly crept in due political, economical, casts and other intertwined facts of life with 128 crore people with different languages, region etc. This is not an ordinary problem and in general, when people pray not many ask to be not reborn, rather ask for material benefits. Fear of GOD - when He or She is supposed to be embodiment of Love and does not interfere in one's life like a typical human being, who can come and change them. Jaggi Vasudev, and others have very limited influence since their past is always questioned.

So, we have two group of people in India - GOD will take care of every thing and we don't have to anything to the society; self seekers. That is fine for intellectual discussions, but how will it change the seekers?

Seekers in general, do not come to the forums and participate in discussions, rather will be searching for their guide without any advertisement. Yes they may exists but not to be seen by self centered people. With both Christian preachers attacking Hinduism and Muslims( in the North supporting Pakistan indirectly), a new Guru has to be both a politician and a spiritual leader. Hinduism without any apex authority can not handle this situation. But every one has the right and entitlement for their own believes and I am not questioning any one.

 

[sravna]

The problem with all these studies is that they lack depth and don't reveal deeper truths. The above articles paint the Indian society in a poor light but does that mean the Americans or other so called advanced societies are paragons of virtue. Far far from that. It is like castigating and punishing the poor petty thief but letting go the big sharks scot free.

Yes I accept the truth of the above articles at face value. But look deeply at the reality. I would say nothing can be as inflated as the ego of the Americans. Though they have achieved in scientific and other fields but still the ego is unduly big.

Compare their achievements to what ancient indians have accomplished. These white guys are a pittance. The packaging and marketing and their clout are what for the most part magnify their achievements.

On any day I am fine with lying and petty cheating but definitely not with wicked intentions and utter lack of concern for others borne out of undue sense of superiority.

Those Indians who finally stand to benefit just as crumbs thrown to dogs by the American systems keep maligning their own country in a shameless way.

Self analysis and corrections are much more starkly needed for the Americans and their sycophants. Indians just need to rid off their negative influence and carve out their own path.

 

[renuka]

I had deleted the article that gave full details with % of response from a national survey done from Delhi. by mistake. Here are others:

Holly Bolly India

www.myindianstory.com

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/caste-matters-despite-the-great-indian-lie-1.655588

Does Indian Society Train Indians to Cheat and Lie? - Brightwork Research & Analysis

India is a society that has created broadscale cheating and deception. Now that millions of Indians live in the US, and other European based countries, these deceptive tactics are impacting non-Indians in a major way.

www.brightworkresearch.com

The numbers lie

Under-reporting of persons involved in manual scavenging reflects state apathy, societal bias. Policy must address this

indianexpress.com

10 Of The Biggest Lies That Had India Fooled - ScoopWhoop

How many times have you read or been told things that turn out to be false? How many times did we find things to be untrue and were taken aback, because we heard stories and [...]

www.scoopwhoop.com

I had deleted the article that gave full details with % of response from a national survey done from Delhi. by mistake. Here are others:

Holly Bolly India

www.myindianstory.com

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/caste-matters-despite-the-great-indian-lie-1.655588

Does Indian Society Train Indians to Cheat and Lie? - Brightwork Research & Analysis

India is a society that has created broadscale cheating and deception. Now that millions of Indians live in the US, and other European based countries, these deceptive tactics are impacting non-Indians in a major way.

www.brightworkresearch.com

The numbers lie

Under-reporting of persons involved in manual scavenging reflects state apathy, societal bias. Policy must address this

indianexpress.com

10 Of The Biggest Lies That Had India Fooled - ScoopWhoop

How many times have you read or been told things that turn out to be false? How many times did we find things to be untrue and were taken aback, because we heard stories and [...]

www.scoopwhoop.com

The point is not that there good decent and loving people in India, but the % is low.

Also, if we do not accept our short comings and self analysis and accept the mistakes, we can not correct them to progress. Our shortcomings slowly crept in due political, economical, casts and other intertwined facts of life with 128 crore people with different languages, region etc. This is not an ordinary problem and in general, when people pray not many ask to be not reborn, rather ask for material benefits. Fear of GOD - when He or She is supposed to be embodiment of Love and does not interfere in one's life like a typical human being, who can come and change them. Jaggi Vasudev, and others have very limited influence since their past is always questioned.

So, we have two group of people in India - GOD will take care of every thing and we don't have to anything to the society; self seekers. That is fine for intellectual discussions, but how will it change the seekers?

Seekers in general, do not come to the forums and participate in discussions, rather will be searching for their guide without any advertisement. Yes they may exists but not to be seen by self centered people. With both Christian preachers attacking Hinduism and Muslims( in the North supporting Pakistan indirectly), a new Guru has to be both a politician and a spiritual leader. Hinduism without any apex authority can not handle this situation. But every one has the right and entitlement for their own believes and I am not questioning any one.

How is this 99%?
Its on random guy giving his opinion...but it cant be 99%.

 

[renuka]

When I was in India, I met a fair amount of liars, cheaters, self centred people BUT also a good amount of honest, sincere and selfless people.

So I didnt feel its at a pathological range but one trait I didnt like is that many were quick to judge sans evidence.

But I understand that when competition is high with limited resource,one tends to be selfish and cheating/ lying would be common.

Once competition is less and socio economic situations improve only then human values would prevail.

 

[sravna]

When I was in India, I met a fair amount of liars, cheaters, self centred people BUT also a good amount of honest, sincere and selfless people.

So I didnt feel its at a pathological range but one trait I didnt like is that many were quick to judge sans evidence.

But I understand that when competition is high with limited resource,one tends to be selfish and cheating/ lying would be common.

Once competition is less and socio economic situations improve only then human values would prevail.

No Renuka there is no limit for the thing called as greed. You are not satisfied with what you have and funnily you do not want the other to reach your level. Economic conditions yes. But that is not the real culprit. It is the inner thing. Society should concurrently work on that.

 

[renuka]

No Renuka there is no limit for the thing called as greed. You are not satisfied with what you have and funnily you do not want the other to reach your level. Economic conditions yes. But that is not the real culprit. It is the inner thing. Society should concurrently work on that.

The poor might need to be cunning and cheat to survive and the rich might have greed to maintain the money they make cos the economic situation isnt as great.
Once a country is stable the citizens focus on finer human values.

 

[sravna]

The catch is country will not be allowed to become stable. Thats how the greed can be fed. The pendulum has swung to the extreme. Counter force is needed and will happen and bring back the balance.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

The moral is, a majority now care for today-today life and all our discussion here on religion and faith are only found in discussion groups. Even relatives try to avoid people.
Also, only three or four people participate in these discussions. That says something about our argument.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

The catch is country will not be allowed to become stable. Thats how the greed can be fed. The pendulum has swung to the extreme. Counter force is needed and will happen and bring back the balance.

But no Brahman can do it and it has to come from bottom up. May be a new Nayanar (Not Nityanandha)!

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Once competition is less and socio economic situations improve only then human values would prevail.
- With growin population - even so called college guys and girls hurry to get kids, your idea is just a dream.
COVID type diseases, climate related problems etc., will eventually reduce the population. Nature does not allow any thing to violate her equilibirum, thought it may take time.
Also uness you live in India continuously (not as a tourist) and live in several cities, you can not feel their attitude.
As usual, you are entitled for your views and that is fine too. In the same family every one does not agree on everything.
Gossip ( quick to judge sans evidence.) is th main entertainment and give the people some kind of "I am better than others" ego satisfaction. I have seen this even among seniors. Even in this forum, people tell problems but seldom propose a viable minimal solution. But that is also a fun.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Are we waiting for overemotional’ people who might be our religious leader?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...al-people-happiness-sensitivity-smells-sounds

They could be the visionaries of our world’: do ‘overemotional’ people hold the key to happiness?​

‘It is hard to explain why the noise and light of the TV feels like being punched in the face.’ Illustration: Nathalie Lees/The Guardian

One in five of us struggle to cope with everyday smells, sounds and images. Rather than a weakness, this extreme sensitivity could be a strength in everything from the pandemic to the climate crisis

E mine Saner @eminesaner
Mon 15 Nov 2021

• “I feel I’m too sensitive for this world,” says Lena, who can’t cope with crowds or bright lights. Melissa gets her husband to watch films before her to see if she will be able to handle any violence, gore or scariness. When their grownup children bring the grandchildren round, she has to retreat to another room because their “loud laughter, the talking over each other, their swearing and their smells overwhelm me”. Lucia says she can feel “each and every fibre of her clothes” and it feels very ticklish or uncomfortable at times. Sometimes, she has to stop during sex with her partner because it becomes “too ticklish”.
• Lena, Melissa and Lucia would all describe themselves as highly sensitive, a label that could be applied to up to 20% of us, according to the US-based psychologist Elaine Aron, who started studying high sensitivity in the early 90s, and published her influential book The Highly Sensitive Person in 1996.
• “When these people have information coming in, they process it much more deeply and more elaborately,” explains Genevieve von Lob, a clinical psychologist who works with many highly sensitive people, especially children. “They tend to take in much more information from lots of different kinds of stimuli. And then they’re processing it more deeply than a non-sensitive person – and because they’re taking in so much at once they can get much more overstimulated, overaroused and overwhelmed.”

• Meeting people who embraced their quiet, joyful natures was transforming, and I embraced my own sensitivity

• When the Guardian asked readers to share their experiences of high sensitivity, more than 300 people responded. Over some 40,000 words, they wrote about feeling drained by their ability to tune into other people’s emotions, or exhausted from working in open-plan offices or a visit to the supermarket. It was common to report crying at emotional adverts, but also to be dismayed and deeply affected by political events. “I found austerity horrifying,” writes one. “I work in a school that has been directly impacted by cuts. I teach children who are experiencing the effects of neglected public services and parents who are financially unstable. If poverty continues to rise in this country, I know I will be spending a lot more time crying in my classroom.”
• Several people reported wearing headphones “to block out the world”, and avoiding social media lest a cross word ruin their day, or week. Criticism at work can stay with them for years, other people’s perfume feels like an assault and relationships can be tricky.
• “It is difficult to explain to someone why the noise and light of the television in the morning feels like being punched in the face, or why the texture of their favourite scratchy blanket makes me want to cry, without sounding like an insane person,” wrote one woman. “I wish I were not a highly sensitive person – it has made my life much more difficult.” Others remembered being told to “toughen up” as a child, or had lived for decades with the feeling there was something wrong with them.
• As a result, a lot of highly sensitive people have low self-esteem, von Lob says. “Often they might have been bullied at school. Society tends to view it as a weakness, and they can get these labels like ‘fragile’ or ‘overemotional’. I think people who are highly sensitive can often feel lonely and misunderstood, and not normal. The world feels too harsh, too loud for them. It’s not surprising that they struggle to accept themselves and they struggle to value their gifts because of the messages they have received.”
• But while our noisy, frenetic, always-on world can be an unforgiving place, there is some hope. Our understanding of what it means to be highly sensitive and how to cope with the unpleasant side-effects is increasing.
• Self-acceptance is key, says von Lob. High sensitivity is innate, and not something to be diagnosed or “treated”, though people can learn coping mechanisms for when life becomes overwhelming. “I can’t emphasise enough how much you need unstructured downtime – plenty of sleep and rest,” says von Lob. The highly sensitive “need to pace themselves. Because they take in so much more and they have more intense emotions, they need time to process the emotions in their body, so movement can be really helpful – walks, or kickboxing or dance or yoga, whatever type of movement they enjoy. Because they’re people who are deep thinkers, they’ve got very rich inner worlds, and it’s really important for them to have those sort of meaningful, deeper connections in relationships.”
• Time spent in nature can be helpful, she adds. “And simplifying life, so having less clutter around, less of a busy schedule. That’s why they work well with self-employment or being able to structure their own work day.” It is important, she says, not to compare yourself with other people, “because if you’re comparing yourself with the mainstream world of the non-sensitive, you’re never going to be able to do what they do, but you’ve got your unique strengths”.
• Because being highly sensitive is a strength – or a “superpower”, as more than one respondent put it. “The advantages are that it makes me a really good listener, good at conversation,” says Samira. “I’m able to find underlying meanings easily, I’m very intuitive and I have a rich inner life with a strong emotional vocabulary.” Others report hearing nuances in music that the average person might miss, or being deeply empathetic with friends. Highly sensitive people tend to notice things in the environment that may pass others by, and get more from the arts.
• Louise, a researcher, grew up believing it was “wrong” to be so sensitive. It was only in her 30s, when she was unhappy in her job, that she went on a sculpture holiday and reconnected with her love of art. “That holiday completely changed me – I met similarly sensitive people and for the first time realised that being sensitive was OK. The people I met there didn’t think being ‘soft’ was bad, and were comfortable discussing their own sensitivity, their ability to find joy in beautiful things, to feel deeply about the world around them,” she says. “Meeting people who embraced their quiet, joyful natures was transforming and I came back embracing my own sensitivity. I started reading and creating again and thought carefully about my career and how it failed to nurture me. I gave myself permission to be the sensitive person I really was.”

• It might be exactly what we need, if only society could recognise and nurture people with these traits

• She started a PhD, and: “Several years later, my life is transformed. My sensitivity has become my strength and it is the reason for the success of my research, which involves working with vulnerable people. My work is reliant on deep thinking and deep human connection. I am open about my need for a quiet office and my employers have been brilliant, understanding the impact of overstimulation in larger offices. I wish I had realised earlier in my life that being highly sensitive could be a strength, rather than a weakness.”
• There has been a question over whether high sensitivity is a sign of autism, but Michael Pluess, professor of developmental psychology and sensitivity researcher at Queen Mary University of London, says that, although both feature a more responsive sensory system, “sensitivity and autism are probably two fairly separate things” (highly sensitive children may originally be diagnosed as having autism spectrum disorder). Similarly, it’s not about being an introvert, as there are extroverts who are also highly sensitive. Aron’s work is around the idea that sensitivity is a personality trait, although other researchers come at it from a biological or physiological perspective.
• Pluess doesn’t like the term “highly sensitive personality”; he prefers to think of sensitivity as a continuum. “Everyone is sensitive – we would not be able to survive without being sensitive to the environment – but some people are more sensitive than others, and having a higher sensitivity has benefits and also challenges.”
  
  
• It’s about knowing that being highly sensitive is not a weakness, says von Lob. In fact, it might be exactly what we need, if only society could recognise and nurture people with these traits. There are thought to be as many men as women who have high sensitivity, but for cultural reasons to do with ideas of “masculinity” these traits are not seen as desirable – to the detriment of all of us. “Some of the strengths are that they are very self-aware, they have this great capacity for empathy,” says von Lob. “So that’s really good in leadership roles. They often are creative people, so they could be the visionaries of our world – they come up with different ways of thinking from the mainstream. They have a very strong sense of justice and fairness. They’re very good listeners, and question rules that don’t make sense. They’re very conscientious, because they look at details. We need these kind of skills and awareness in the world at the moment.”
• The ongoing response to the pandemic and the climate emergency are both vital areas that could benefit from the abilities of highly sensitive people, says von Lob. “They can use their passion, their intuitive knowledge and their self-awareness to be part of the solution.”
• Isadora often wears earplugs while out and about to dull some of the “jarring” noise, can’t bear the odour of cleaning products or cooking smells, and finds loud music in restaurants unbearable. Still, she says, “despite the challenges, I’m glad to be highly sensitive because I feel that the world could benefit from more sensitive individuals. There is an overabundance of insensitivity.”
• Some names have been changed.