Comparing intercaste marriages (TB vs Other Brahmins)

[prasad1]

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This thread is being hijacked.
Mr. GNANA SUNYAM is not the topic of the thread.
There is no need to attack the poster. Yes we can agree or disagree with an opinion, but please refrain from making personal attacks.

I find GNANA SUNYAM's argument thought provoking and refreshing. I too would like to know what we mean by TB Culture?
I am not a traditional Tamil, as I was never born or raised in Tamil Nadu. My mother tongue is Tamil. I was born in Brahmin family. So I do call myself TB. But culturally I am different from other members here. But I celebrate the diversity of our opinions.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Clicq and Bharathwaj,

The 21CGen TBs believe in God, are theists, but for a few agnostics.

The God of the 21CGen TBs, is one, is He who created the Universe, is He who created the Plants and Fruits and Crops to provide food for His Greates-of-all-creation-the-human-being, He created the Sun, the Moon, the Stars not for human beings to worship but to provide light and heat and energy for man to survive on this planet, created the animals, for instance the monkey and elephant, not to be worshipped as gods but to be tamed by man for his use, for his purpose etc, the elephant to carry heavy logs, the cattle to provide milk and pull carts etc, the dog to watch over his house etc, the fish for food during marine journey etc.

The God of the 21CGen never founded any religion, any 'ism' or any 'ity'. The 'ism's and 'ity's are mere man's creation, product of the cunning and crafty man's cunningness and craftiness to influence and to suppress and oppress the gullible man, the innocent man.

The 21CGen want peace, harmony. They are fed up with wars and battles fought merely for religious gain. Philosophy is intellectual nonsense, does not benefit one bit. For them philosophers are hypocrites. None of them guided society to the better. They only contributed to stir up ego and to generate ego battles among men.

For 21CGen, 'Culture' is to treat everyone on par, is to consider every other human being as equal, is to mutually help each other and to make this world a beautiful place to live, to detoxicate this world from the toxic mess which their forefathers had made this world.

...and many more.

Interact with the 21CGen and your eyes will be opened to a whole lot of new world, a better world, a brighter world will be opened to you, a world you had never seen, a real world.

What you describe is average well to do young person believes. It is an idealistic but simplistic assumption. I do not think the majority of young people believe that. If it was true there will be no Taliban, Jan Sangh, KKK etc. Religious fervor is the cause of world strife. But then again that is for another thread.

 

[renuka]

This thread is being hijacked.
Mr. GNANA SUNYAM is not the topic of the thread.
There is no need to attack the poster. Yes we can agree or disagree with an opinion, but please refrain from making personal attacks.

I find GNANA SUNYAM's argument thought provoking and refreshing. I too would like to know what we mean by TB Culture?
I am not a traditional Tamil, as I was never born or raised in Tamil Nadu. My mother tongue is Tamil. I was born in Brahmin family. So I do call myself TB. But culturally I am different from other members here. But I celebrate the diversity of our opinions.

Dear Prasad ji,
There is no personal attack on Gnana Shunyam ji.
I just asked for the source of his God concept.

 

[renuka]

'Wow!!! Great madam!!! My net knowledge is insignificant, negligible when compared with yours madam. Yes, you are correct. I am GZero.

The first of the Ten Commandments commands the Israelites to refrain from worshipping any graven image. It is written in the Old Testament, "Thou shalt not have any other gods...". Whoever has watched the movie 'Ten Commandments' would know this. Yet the same Bible mentions Israelites worshipping other gods also.

Dear Gnana Shunyam ji,
I had written Gzero to shorten your username.
G= Gnana
Zero= Shunyam

Its not to denote your level of knowledge.

I dont consider myself learned though I like to explore religious text and languages.

I was answering the question that you asked me on what texts I have read.

Regards

 

[renuka]

What you describe is average well to do young person believes. It is an idealistic but simplistic assumption. I do not think the majority of young people believe that. If it was true there will be no Taliban, Jan Sangh, KKK etc. Religious fervor is the cause of world strife. But then again that is for another thread.

I beg to differ.
The average young person these days isnt one size fit all.
There are some who still adhere to religion but the trend is more into spirituality..meditation, yoga etc somewhat like what Sadguru preaches.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

strange...you just divorced Christianity..I thought you were married to it earlier!

Madam, I never espoused christianity to divorce it.

Is this not the problem with you all madam!! You are no different from the crowd. You also jump to conclusions invariably incorrect. Your mind is also programmed and conditioned to believe the bluff that Jesus founded christianity. Jesus never founded christianity. The europeans founded the denominations which are collectively referred by the term 'christianity' coined by the englishmen as part of english lexicon. However that is discussion for a different thread exclusively for that topic.

I need not be your patient to praise and appreciate your professional excellence, need I?

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Gnana Shunyam ji,
I had written Gzero to shorten your username.
G= Gnana
Zero= Shunyam

Its not to denote your level of knowledge.

I dont consider myself learned though I like to explore religious text and languages.

I was answering the question that you asked me on what texts I have read.

Regards

No issues at all madam! You may address me as G0. Dats what I am.

 

[renuka]

Madam, I never espoused christianity to divorce it.

Is this not the problem with you all madam!! You are no different from the crowd. You also jump to conclusions invariably incorrect. Your mind is also programmed and conditioned to believe the bluff that Jesus founded christianity. Jesus never founded christianity. The europeans founded the denominations which are collectively referred by the term 'christianity' coined by the englishmen as part of english lexicon. However that is discussion for a different thread exclusively for that topic.

I need not be your patient to praise and appreciate your professional excellence, need I?

Dear Sir,
I do understand, no one in this world be it any an avatar or messenger or prophet founded any religion.
Anyway, may be we can discuss all these in another thread.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

People are free to believe whatever religion or theology they want. But it is not correct to project one's own beliefs onto others. Especially if the belief is not even ethical (Animals were NOT created to serve humans, for example) Calling this out is not an attack.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

People are free to believe whatever religion or theology they want. But it is not correct to project one's own beliefs onto others. Especially if the belief is not even ethical (Animals were NOT created to serve humans, for example) Calling this out is not an attack.

Agreed people are free to believe whatever religion or theology they wish. No projection or imposition attempted here. Just result of findings on interviewing a few samples. Need not be conclusive. But an apparent end towards which current trend is tending towards.

Whatever the creator created animals for being, man has tamed and used them for his benefit. The milk that men drink, using for coffee and tea, is not mother's milk, is it?

Don't bullock-carts and horse-driven carts, reindeer driven sledges exist? Ain't dogs used as squad to sniff and trace thieves? Ain't animals caged in Zoos?

Whatever religion you are following, perhaps hinduism, is it your own internal conviction or an external compulsion, an external conditioning of your mind?

Is it your own personal choice, self-will or is it mandated by your birth, imposed on you from external agents, may be your parents? Is it mere meek submission and subscription to the mandate by your parents to follow their religion, regardless of and irrespective of your conviction? Even before you were born, from wherever you were, did you conduct any research, discover at the end that the religion you are born into is the best and hence choose to be born in that religion?

Is it by virtue of YOUR birth in that religion, the religion you are waxing eloquent as great, great?

Had you been born in a group which do not worship animals, would you have founded out worshipping animals is indeed worth and breaking all rules of that religion, would you have worshipped whichever animal you are worshipping now? For instance, had you been born a muslim or christian or sikh or jain, would you have worshipped hanuman or ganesh?

Whatever religion or theology you believe (or claim to be believing), is your belief objective or subjective, is your belief absolute or relative?

Please do not answer me. Answer to your own conscience.

Now coming to the point of this thread, why is a person free to choose religion or theology but a TB is not free to choose his of her life partner? Why should his or her choice be dictated or governed by so-called-TB-culture, by horoscope matching, by his parents' likes and dislikes, by the likes and dislikes of his or her TB community ethos, conditions, customs, traditions etc? If you can provide a convincing explanation, I will agree with you that a TB must marry only a TB.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Sir,
I do understand, no one in this world be it any an avatar or messenger or prophet founded any religion.
Anyway, may be we can discuss all these in another thread.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

This thread is being hijacked.
Mr. GNANA SUNYAM is not the topic of the thread.
There is no need to attack the poster. Yes we can agree or disagree with an opinion, but please refrain from making personal attacks.

I find GNANA SUNYAM's argument thought provoking and refreshing. I too would like to know what we mean by TB Culture?
I am not a traditional Tamil, as I was never born or raised in Tamil Nadu. My mother tongue is Tamil. I was born in Brahmin family. So I do call myself TB. But culturally I am different from other members here. But I celebrate the diversity of our opinions.

Thanks Prasad!

It is alright if people attack. I take it with a pinch of salt.

People throw stones at a fruit and not when it is yet to ripe.

For your query, 'What we mean by TB culture?', there is no convincing answer. I think it is just cliche, an escape route, an illusion, just verbiage and verbatim to justify mandating TB marriages within TB circle, to make a desperate unsuccessful attempt to stall inter-caste marriages among TBs. Exposes irrational fear, panic of numbers diminishing.

 

[sravna]

TB culture is about embracing spirituality though there are different versions of it. The core idea is the same. Belief in something higher than human , adherence to righteousness, not being selfish etc etc.

Today's culture or a-culture is about selfishness. Promoting only self at the expense of others. So i would very much want to stop the slide of TB values not only in the interest of the community but in the overall Interest of everybody.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Agreed people are free to believe whatever religion or theology they wish. No projection or imposition attempted here. Just result of findings on interviewing a few samples. Need not be conclusive. But an apparent end towards which current trend is tending towards.

Whatever the creator created animals for being, man has tamed and used them for his benefit. The milk that men drink, using for coffee and tea, is not mother's milk, is it?

Don't bullock-carts and horse-driven carts, reindeer driven sledges exist? Ain't dogs used as squad to sniff and trace thieves? Ain't animals caged in Zoos?

Whatever religion you are following, perhaps hinduism, is it your own internal conviction or an external compulsion, an external conditioning of your mind?

Is it your own personal choice, self-will or is it mandated by your birth, imposed on you from external agents, may be your parents? Is it mere meek submission and subscription to the mandate by your parents to follow their religion, regardless of and irrespective of your conviction? Even before you were born, from wherever you were, did you conduct any research, discover at the end that the religion you are born into is the best and hence choose to be born in that religion?

Is it by virtue of YOUR birth in that religion, the religion you are waxing eloquent as great, great?

Had you been born in a group which do not worship animals, would you have founded out worshipping animals is indeed worth and breaking all rules of that religion, would you have worshipped whichever animal you are worshipping now? For instance, had you been born a muslim or christian or sikh or jain, would you have worshipped hanuman or ganesh?

Whatever religion or theology you believe (or claim to be believing), is your belief objective or subjective, is your belief absolute or relative?

Please do not answer me. Answer to your own conscience.

Now coming to the point of this thread, why is a person free to choose religion or theology but a TB is not free to choose his of her life partner? Why should his or her choice be dictated or governed by so-called-TB-culture, by horoscope matching, by his parents' likes and dislikes, by the likes and dislikes of his or her TB community ethos, conditions, customs, traditions etc? If you can provide a convincing explanation, I will agree with you that a TB must marry only a TB.

Some people like to hear themselves speak. GS must be one such person. He writes copiously but to what end?! He answers questions that nobody asked. He provides explanations that were not sought. I am comfortable with my choices in life. I am not insecure about my beliefs and belief system. I am not the person who quoted extensively from a religious scripture but then do a volte face and claim not to follow any "ism" or "ity". I didn't write for or against inter-caste marriages. I only provided an explanation for why they may be happening. So, once again, it is better if GS stops projecting his opinions as that of others.

 

[sravna]

It is in the interest of everybody if people align with a righteous culture such as TB culture and stop promoting divisiveness and hatred. TBs follow a philosophy that is Universal and timeless. You may take only the essence that will guide everyone properly.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

TB culture is about embracing spirituality though there are different versions of it. The core idea is the same. Belief in something higher than human , adherence to righteousness, not being selfish etc etc.

Today's culture or a-culture is about selfishness. Promoting only self at the expense of others. So i would very much want to stop the slide of TB values not only in the interest of the community but in the overall Interest of everybody.

Dear Sri Sravna,

Whether 'embracing spirituality' is TB culture is debatable. Even if it is true, that and also what you have mentioned as core value, is not distinct or unique about TB culture. There are thousands of people groups on the globe who pursue spirituality, seeking a super-human phenomenon etc.

Why do you perceive change as 'slide of values'?

None of the philosophies are universal. Most have died.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sri Sravna,

Whether 'embracing spirituality' is TB culture is debatable. Even if it is true, that and also what you have mentioned as core value, is not distinct or unique about TB culture. There are thousands of people groups on the globe who pursue spirituality, seeking a super-human phenomenon etc.

Why do you perceive change as 'slide of values'?

None of the philosophies are universal. Most have died.

Dear Shri GS,

I agree. Spirituality is not unique to TB culture. But can you give a brutally honest opinion. The western values especially the current ones are an insult to human potential. The younger generation has taken to western values for the worse. I want a brutally honest opinion on this too.

In general though there may a number contra cases, western philosophy is hedonistic which has immense possibility for ones values to degrade. Our ancestors at the philosophical level espoused righteousness.

In kali yuga the western philosophy is seen as highly pragmatic and hence the true reason towards a degrading value system and significant loss of TB culture.

 

[sravna]

The single most significant factor in moving towards western a-culture is the westerners spectacular success in science and technology. You and all know for what real end their success is used. This strongly calls for resurgence of spirituality and move towards self control the single most important quality that humans need today.

It is not only self control but intelligence and many precious human qualities have been lost. One really has to bemoan this. So a call to stem TB rot can be seen to be directed towards this goal.

 

[sravna]

Yes we have AI. But where is Human Intelligence? Is it a wise trade off? Technology such as AI not only directly steers us to do acts such as adharmic wars but also indirectly takes away all the fine qualities required for peace. It is the master that prompts us to dance like its puppets.

 

[sravna]

We are not yet ready for AI. There is still a lot of room to evolve. Then we can really peacefully and constructively use AI and other intelligent technology.

 

[sravna]

Coming back to the topic let's get human ethics right and really feel concerned about degrading TB culture sort of a last bastion of spirituality. Nothing wrong in it.

 

[sravna]

Human spirituality as seen in the culture of TB and many others can do very well without AI. it is for the other scientific minded people that AI may be foundationally relevant. As a tool for people the way AI is used would be different for these two fundamentally different types of people. I am for technology but I am not for decadent culture.

 

[sravna]

Diversity is good for society if though at the surface level with dharmic values underpinning them. Diversity is not conducive when one person wearing suit and the other dhoti both with evil intents. So let's have clarity when diversity is good. It may create more divisiveness than unity when not properly understood or projected.

 

[sravna]

Also the bad news folks. About AI. When I begin to engage with depth it's fallibility is evident. What it means is it is very much shallow reasoning and please don't bet on it to make decisions for you. It is definitely a good assistant and keep it at that distance. One more dangerous thing is it can become addictive. Kindly don't let yourself to be addicted. The term intelligence is somewhat a misnomer. That has to be changed.

 

[sravna]

AA meaning Artificial Assistant or MA meaning Machine Assistant and similar acronyms be used.