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Christian Evangelism & Conversion Among Brahmins

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hinduism vs rest

hi- the dmk t.n.govt has allocated 95 lakhs for a film on the so called periyar.now that the producer of the film is getting financed out of tax payers money, there is added responsibililty.he should ensure that the film is not a propaganda on the periyar. periyar's support to british, his abuse on brahmins, hinduism all should be openly highlighted. otherwise it would be an one side propaganda.

the so called periyar and his followersMr.M.Karunanidhi are highly 'educated' 'intellects'. they say brahmins evenif their mother tongue is tamil are not tamilians. whereas even urdu speaking muslims are tamils!may be this is what they call 'rationality'!

in other countries vegeteranism is a personal choice of n individual. but in india vegeteranism is a caste. a religion, there s a caste-brahmin and atleast2 religions-hinduism, jainism- exclusively devoted for vegeteranism.

vande mataram!!
 
Thank you for your patriotic and communal fervor, Suresh. I am organizing some of my thoughts in the order of the issues you raised.

1. I have read Gandhi's "My experiments with Truth" more than a couple of times and happen to own a copy of that book. So if you could please mention the page(s) or chapter where he discusses that, 'untouchability came into existence mainly because brahmins discovered that non-vegetarianism was a sin', I'd be much obliged.

2. I think Gandhi does not mention Aryan invasion or non-invasion theory because he considered it largely irrelevant to his life and his 'experiments with truth'.

3. You mention that you find it difficult to believe that Brahmins eat meat in the US. Well, it is happening in India too. If you don't already know, I humbly suggest that you go out and see the world a bit more.

4. You raise a valid point - if Brahmins go out and start eating meat, can they still be called Brahmins? The answer to this question is tricky because Hinduism, in practice, assigns caste on the basis of birth, not on the basis of actions. Lord Krishna in the Gita discusses Sattvic, Rajasic and Tamasic qualities as Gunas, or characteristics; he does not mention that these are necessarily related to birth. But in practice since the caste system came to be based on assignment by birth those who eat non-veg retain membership technically but may not possess the qualities required of a Brahmin.

If actions and (eating) habits of Brahmins should be scrutinized why stop at vegetarianism/non-vegetarianism? After all this is only one physical habit. Mental habits are more important and crucial. Why not go all the way and question whether Brahmins have focused on building spiritual strength the way they were supposed to?

5. TN Govt 'sponsors' drinking because it is a source of revenue - nothing funny about it. It is simple economics. The US 'sponsors' gambling through its state lottery systems. Not all policies are 'value' based; some are based on pure economics.

6. TN Govt gives eggs because it is scientifically proven that it is a good source of protein. I agree that it is not the only source of protein - there are lentils, beans, soy etc. But distributing eggs, I don't think is meant to offend Brahmins or Hinduism. There are lots of other things happening like bad movie portrayals which are far more serious.

7. I find it really strange that you keep equating the Indian constitution with Hindu scriptures. Indian constitution and democracy has tried really hard to market itself as "secular". The system is actually quite confused about how to execute it, which is why we are having problems of minority protection and majority neglect.

So it will be really helpful if you quote appropriate passages from the relevant scriptures and appropriate sections of the Constitution so that we all can get a chance to discuss it better.



N.SURESH said:
hi silverfox and all of you! mahatma gandhi inhis book'my experiments with truth' has clearly said that untouchability came into existence mainly because brahmins discovered that non vegetaranism was a sin. so they considered meat eaters as untouchables. if you eat meat , even if you r a brahmin you r untouchable. gandhiji, unlike nehru does not subscribe to aryan invasion theory . he does not even mention about it.

i find it difficult believe that brahmins eat meat, port etc.-even in u.s. in any case if you consume meat you cannot say you continue to a brahmin.its like saying a vegetarian eats meat?!how can you be a vegetarian if you eat meat? similarly you cannot be a brahmin if you start consuming meat- this is what the hindu scriptures say. you hve mentioned about positive points of egg. not negative points, what about that. even cigaratte smoking is a man's personal choice. if a govt were to sponsor smoking, will it not be funny? the tn govt sponsoring drinking, egg eating is really funny to say the least.the hindu religion, indianconstitution do not consider meat eating, drinking as personal choices alone of individuals. there r many restrictions, discouragements for meat eaters, drinkers in hindu scriptures, indian constitution.

bharat mata ki jai!!

alos hinduism DOES NOT ADVOCATE supremacy of one caste over other. it only advocates supremacy of one ideology(i.e. vegetaranism) over non vegetaranism. since brahmins were pure veggies, they benefited because of this. moreever, more than consumption meat, hinduism condemns the killing and/or slaying and/or injuring live animals for the consumption of meat.
 
Madhani Is An Accused In The Coimbatore Blasts Case Of 1998

silverfox said:
Hi Suresh:

How come the people of Tamil Nadu are not objecting to Mr. Karunanidhi misusing public money for his own causes - more so for a terrorist? What is the media doing? Don't they have a watchdog to expose these?

Who is this guy Madhani and why is he a terrorist? Is he in prison? What is Mr. K's reason to provide ayurvedic treatment to this man?
Are your charges based on rumor or proven ones?

Madhani is an Islamic terrorist of Kerala. He is said to be the brain behind the CBE serial bomb blasts in 1998,which killed nearly 60 people and maimed hundreds. He was arrested then & has been in Coimbatore jail since then. He had already lost one of his legs in Kerala because of his "noble" terrorist activities. Further he has been sick. In Kerala the Muslims constitue 25% of the population & Christians another 19 to 20%. So, both "secular" parties, i.e., the congressmen & Marxists, will do anything to get the 45% minority votes. The new CPM CM of Kerala ACHUTHAANANDAN is "rightly" grateful to the Muslims & their leader Madhani who were responsible for his elevation to the CM's post. So he recently visited TN & pleaded with CM Karunanidhi to let out Madhani on bail (perhaps to facilitate the "rightful" terrorist activities of Madhani) or to atleast arrange for his Ayurvedic treatment in a hospital. MK has assured Achuthaanandan that he would do whatever was within his power to help the "poor" Madhani.
:croc:
 
Has This Blogspot Been Blocked By The Govt. Of India?

Rookiie said:
Folks

This is a wonderful blog on Christianity and Conversion

You can see how aggressive churchianity has extended its vicious tentacles even into one of the most sacred and spiritual sites of the Hindus.

http://conversionagenda.blogspot.com/

I tried to visit this blogspot but I got the reply "Could not connect to remote server". Has this blogspot been blocked by the Govt. of the "ITALIAN MATHAJI" in India. Can anyone enlighten me?
:bathbaby::fencing:
 
Muslims Constitute 25% Of The Poulation In Kerala !

rxrajamo said:
Well, let us not forget the fact that the Kerala assembly passed a resolution requesting Madhani's release. All the parties except BJP supported the resolution. The political parties would not think twice to mortgage nation's interest if it would get them a few votes. But, we can look at it positively. What this tells us is that if we can organize ourselves as a pressure group we can very well get what we want from the politicians. All we have to show is solidarity. Unfortunately that is what we are lacking. Look at how many forum members we have and see how few are active in the forums. It is very disappointing. Many members are not coming forward to express their views which is not good. Unless we shed all inhibitions and stand united we will go nowhere. My 2 cents.


Muslims constitute 25% of the population in Kerala & so all the "secular" parties compete with each other to get their votes whereas in TN Brahmins constitute only 3% of the population & so most of the parties don't care a fig about them. So, even if we show solidarity it won't be of much use. Of course some leaders like MGR, Mooppanar & R.M.Veerappan were kindly disposed towards the Brahmins.:rain: :wave:
 
KAUNDINYA said:
I tried to visit this blogspot but I got the reply "Could not connect to remote server". Has this blogspot been blocked by the Govt. of the "ITALIAN MATHAJI" in India. Can anyone enlighten me?
:bathbaby::fencing:

Kaundinya:
Fear not! It IS working! Maybe you got that message from your server! Try again!
I wouldn't be surprised it if they try to block it!!
 
I would argue if we are less in numbers, more the reason to be united. Besides, these days elections are decided on less than 1% of the votes in many constituencies. Look at the recent TN elections. Many a seat was won by less than 100 or 200 votes margin. That being the case, every vote we bring to the table counts and every politician understands this. If we can demonstrate solidarity and vote as a bloc every political party in TN would be singing a different tune.

KAUNDINYA said:
Muslims constitute 25% of the population in Kerala & so all the "secular" parties compete with each other to get their votes whereas in TN Brahmins constitute only 3% of the population & so most of the parties don't care a fig about them. So, even if we show solidarity it won't be of much use. Of course some leaders like MGR, Mooppanar & R.M.Veerappan were kindly disposed towards the Brahmins.:rain: :wave:
 
Ramki:
An excellent and solid argument. It is all the more important for us to be united. Too bad, Indian government wouldn't give me voting rights even after I obtain an Overseas Indian Citizenship. They are making a joke out of Dual Citizenship.
 
Justified if you have ............

Chintana said:
3. You mention that you find it difficult to believe that Brahmins eat meat in the US. Well, it is happening in India too. If you don't already know, I humbly suggest that you go out and see the world a bit
more. .................

Justified, eat meat if you have provision for 'Confession' like the .......

If you want to eat, eat by all means. You may eat for style
You may eat for conformity
You may eat to stand up in revolt, it is going into your tummy!!! who cares?

Please do not lose your identity.

Hinduism is the only 'DYNAMIC' religion. This dynamism is bringing about constant change, the change is SLOW.

Hinduism is the only religion on earth which can accept criticism. Name another religion on the earth which can tolerate criticism.

scratch scratch, scratch your head.

All other religions are struggling for survival by conversion!!!!

ceetharam
 
Ceetharam: Your response to Chintana:
It seems you are scolding Chintha as she was advocating eating meat!!
She was merely responding to Suresh's incredulousness that Brahmins eat meat... She is not justifying anything!! She was merely pointing out that there are very many Brahmins not only in the US but in India and other places DO eat meat.
I know of some Brahmins here in the US, who claim to be 'Sharmas' - learned scholars - but eat beef, pork and what have you.
It is repulsive to me but I cannot go around telling them that they must not eat meat.


ceetharam said:
Justified, eat meat if you have provision for 'Confession' like the .......

If you want to eat, eat by all means. You may eat for style
You may eat for conformity
You may eat to stand up in revolt, it is going into your tummy!!! who cares?

Please do not lose your identity.

Hinduism is the only 'DYNAMIC' religion. This dynamism is bringing about constant change, the change is SLOW.

Hinduism is the only religion on earth which can accept criticism. Name another religion on the earth which can tolerate criticism.

scratch scratch, scratch your head.

All other religions are struggling for survival by conversion!!!!

ceetharam
 
Thank you Silverfox. Your paraphrasing of my argument is accurate.

Ceetharam's interpretation is way off the mark.

silverfox said:
Ceetharam: Your response to Chintana:
It seems you are scolding Chintha as she was advocating eating meat!!
She was merely responding to Suresh's incredulousness that Brahmins eat meat... She is not justifying anything!! She was merely pointing out that there are very many Brahmins not only in the US but in India and other places DO eat meat.
I know of some Brahmins here in the US, who claim to be 'Sharmas' - learned scholars - but eat beef, pork and what have you.
It is repulsive to me but I cannot go around telling them that they must not eat meat.
 
You referred to ......

ceetharam said:
Justified, eat meat if you have provision for 'Confession' like the .......

If you want to eat, .......

"You" referred to "Those brahmins who preferred to eat meat, certainly not Chinta.

ceetharam
 
Thank you for that clarification Ceetharam. I was clear that "you" was used to mean "those brahmins who preferred to eat meat".

But you missed the point of my posting that you quoted last time - I never questioned the dynamism of Hindu religion. I merely clarified to Suresh that there are Brahmins to eat meat, that's all. I never said that it was good or bad, that it should be done or not. No value judgements.

Your argument seemed written after a cursory glance at what I had written. Sometimes one has to read a posting more than once to check if one has understood the message correctly. I do that quite a lot of times, when I don't understand what people have written. If I understand I respond differently, if I dont understand I usually ask for clarifications.

If you read that entire message to Suresh you will note that I was specifically addressing his argument and raising points of clarification. In technical terms, this would be called a debate.


ceetharam said:
"You" referred to "Those brahmins who preferred to eat meat, certainly not Chinta.

ceetharam
 
Hinduism Vs Rest

HI CHINTANA AND ALL OTHERS!! the only reason why i am so involved with veggie vs non veggie issue more than anything else is becuase unlike other cultures and cnstitution the indian culture and constutition recognise, respect and support animal rights. i do not know the excat no. of article, clause or provision. i am also not an expert in indian constitution or law. but certainly like all other i know the following-

there are 2 directives by the constitution to all govts in india. 1 directive says it is the duty of govts. to enforce total prohibition of alcohol. another directive says the govts. must prohibit slaughter of all cattles.

inthe section fundamental duties, the constitution says all indians should have compassion towards living creatures.

in 1960 indian parliament passed a law called'prevention of cruelty to animals' (PCA) act, which bans injuring, killing, slaying, slaughtering of animals. in 1972 indian parliament passed wild life act banning hunting of many animals. govt. has also signed ther international treaty on endagered species which bans hunting of many rare species.in1950, t.nadu govt. passed a law banning sacrifing of animals in all places except slaughterhouses. supreme court has also ruled that there is no legal violation in enforcing ban on cattle slaughter. many states have banned cattle slaughter. indian constitution also says in section 'fundamental duties' that it s the duty of every indian to develop scientific temper.is slaughterof live animal a scientific temper?

'kalai' is sanskrit work meaning art. the exact tamil equivalent for kalai is koothu far as i know. koothaadi also means a street dancer. kalaignar or kalaignan is not a tamil word. its exact tamil equivalent is koothaadi. Dr. Karunanidhi who said that hindus means 'thief' should also accept that kalaignar means koothaadi. 'karu' intamil means black. 'nai' means'dog.'. karu + nai = karunai. u can pronounce this word karunai in such a way that it not only means compassionbut also a BLACK DOG (NOT GOD AS I WRONGLY TYPED) i heard somebody say this in an aiadmk meeting recently.

1 more matter. mahatma gandhi says that had everybody been a vegetarian there would not have been any untouchability at all. this view is published in his book called 'what is hindu dharma' which a collection of article written by him in various journals he edited. this book published by govt. of india is available all over india for 20/-.(not my experiments with truth. i stand corrected)

the t.n.govt sponsoring alcohol cannot be compared with U.S. govt sponsoring gambling, as indian constitution directs indian govts. to enforce prohibition .govts. encouraging drinking is a violation of of this directive.
all of us know that brahmins, jains, orthodox hindus, veggies will not take eggs. then a govt. which is run by tax payers money sponsoring eggs is morally incorrect in my view. jains, brahmins, veggies, hindus also pay taxes.should their sentiments not be respected? willthe t.n.govt. sponsor pork, which muslims condsider offensive?its the motive of the present govt.h is vry suspect than the move. byyour logic a govt. can evensponsor cigarette smoking and say'this is an important source of revenue this s not an issue at all. there r more important issues"

i know some brahmins all over the world consume meat. but cn they be still called brahmins? a non veggie can never be a brahmin as far as i know.a meat eater saying he s a brahmin is like a veggie eating meat and still saying "i am a veggie" how s it possible? once you take meat u r out or brahminism/ hinduism. this s what scriptures, culture say. caste i dont think is inherited by birth alone. everybody according to shstra is born a shudra. only by growth, profession, behavour he becomes a brahmin or a sudra. cnsuming meat is the biggest obstacle to develop mental, spiritual qualities. how can a person who does not have any compassion towards living creaturs develop mental or spiritual quallties? its not possible at all.

i never said indian constitution is a hindu constitution. its a democratic secular constitution. i only said some views of hindu/ indian culture like prohibition, vegeterranism find echo in indian constitution. there is nothing wrong or 'communal' in it.

with regards, N. SURESH

JAYA JAYA SHRI SUDARSHANA!!
 
Hello Suresh,

First of all, please address me as 'Chintana' or 'Hi Chintana' or 'Hello Chintana' in your responses. You are specifically responding to my post so please keep your address specific. The 'All others' part is not only unnecessary because all the others are going to read this public posting anyway but also it comes across as offensive. It sounds like a battle cry! I am pretty sure that is not your intention so kindly use words that reflect a conventional sense of respect characteristic of written language.

Thank you for expressing that the Constitution of India has two such directives. I too am not an expert on the Constitution but without the actual quotes from the Constitution your argument lacks evidence. Tomorrow somebody else can say that the Constitution prohibits 'Poonool' wearing or some such thing. Without concrete evidence such statements are only opinions or claims at best.

Even if there are those two directives that you mention, I am pretty sure that the Constitution has plenty of Amendments. These amendments are enacted from time to time to reflect the changing needs of the society. So even if we assume for a moment that you have a valid argument we still don't know if such directives have been overruled at a later date. So this again is speculation.

Protecting the rights of Animals, unlawful killing especially endangered spieces and promotion of kindness towards is present even in the United States. That doesn't mean that people in the US don't eat meat. In fact, if according to that Act, Indian law prevents the usage of animals for sacrifices then that must have been enacted as a way of stopping the cruel habits of Brahmins. Let us not forget that Brahmins at one point endorsed animal sacrifices. If at one point Brahmins thought they could get closer to God by sacrificing animals did that make them any less Brahminical than today's Brahmins if they eat non-vegetarian food?

My understanding of 'scientific temper' is that it is a reference to the spirit of enquiry - meaning no one should accept anything without questioning, one must find out the best possible truth behind every action, custom or habit and change it if necessary.

Please don't get me wrong - I don't like killing animals and I don't eat non-veg food - but I believe that we must be tolerant of those who do.

As to your explanation of Kalai and Koothu - the way I learnt them was that they are two different things and my further study on the subject confirmed it. Anybody can have an opinion but it is important to take the trouble to check whether it is right or not. So please cite an authority - refer a good 'Tamizh Agarathi' or other equivalent source and quote that in your reply. I quoted a couple of works in my response to you. I expect the same thoroughness from you. Otherwise I cannot accept your views as valid. They are baseless speculation.

As to Kalignan not being a Tamil word, there are many words like that. The word Vivasaayi in Tamil means farmer - it comes from the Sanskrit root Vyavasaayi. So if you are getting into the question of linguistic roots it is a whole other topic. Fact remains that Kalignan is an accepted word in Tamil and it has a specific meaning in the context which is used. It is acknowledged and used in that specific and that is good enough for any language. English, for example, swiped many words from Tamil - 'Catamaran' comes from the Tamil 'Kattu maram' and 'Millagutawny soup' comes from 'Milagai Thanni' in Tamil which is another way of saying Rasam. So you can't say that the word Catamaran does not have other English equivalents or that Millagutawny is the only soup around.

As to Karu-nai and Karunai. I get the sense that you are not familiar with Tamil script. Because these are two different words. The first one - Karu + nai (it is actually naai) means black + dog. The 'na' syllable used in this word is 'Mellinam' ('na' as in 'Pandhu'). Also grammatically this word of the form 'Pahupadam' meaning a 'pahukkakoodiya padam' (pahuththal means the act of splitting), or a word that can be split. The second word Karunai uses 'na' in the Vallinam form ('na' as in 'Kannan'). This is of the form 'Pahapadam' meaning 'pahukka mudiyatha padam' or a word that cannot be split. In Karunanidhi's name, the word Karuna is Pahapadam (because the 'na' is Vallinam). So there is no question about what it means - compassion and kindness.

Again, on Mahatma Gandhi's words, please quote the appropriate paragraph within quotation marks without changing the text of the original. I will be in a better position to comment.

On liquor sales - any intoxicating habit is morally wrong. But prohibiting liquor has proven to lead to a rather grave law and order situation (definitely in the US; I was too young in India to remember the details of this policy during MGR's regime) which is why it is one of the articles endorsed by law. I am not trying to defend the state meaninglessly but I am trying not to be untrusting or paranoid of the state.

On your point about Brahmins not being Brahmins when they consume meat - I think you are mixing two issues here. One is the scriptural/Gita point of view which says that caste is determined by Guna. So you are saying that meat eating is not conducive to Sattivic Guna so they cannot be considered Brahmins. I agree with this view. But you seem to miss the practical side of caste system the way it exists now. Whether you consume meat or not you remain within the caste. Nobody does 'Jadhi Kattu' or caste ostracism these days. And in a practical sense in today's context caste is assigned by birth.

The word 'communal' does not have to mean a negative thing. It only means a sense of belonging to the community that's all. The press has give this term a negative connotation. I did not use the word the way the press uses it. Also every Constitution will reflect a little bit of the society from which it springs. And if there are some Hindu-based values in the Indian Constitution so be it. To say that the two entities are somehow working in tandem as far as some of these issues we've discussed are concerned, is a bit of a stretch.

Thanks for your response.
 
Praveen:

I wonder if it is possible to provide Tamil fonts in this forum so that when we quote or use Tamil words, one could use the fonts!!
Chintana has given a beautiful discourse on Tamil grammer and syntex; I want to go back and learn Tamil grammer!!
 
Hello everybody in India:

When I was in India during the election time, I had noticed the pictures (boy! did I ever!) of Ms. Sonia Gandhi, wearing a 'kumkum' on her forehead; it was huge!! Since she is a staunch Catholic Christian, isn't it against her religion to wear 'pagan' symbols? I feel she was manipulating the uneducated masses and masqueraded as a Hindu purely for votes.

I would love to hear your comments and views.
 
Hinduism Vs Rest

HI CHINTANA!( i am omitting all others though i dont consider it offensive at all!!)

there are about dozen directives in indian constitution of which 2 r devoted to prohibition of alcohol and prohibition of cattle slaughter respectively, u can confirm it from any source at your disposal. mind u - these r directives-so they r permanent. they cannot be deleted, modified or tampered in any way. govts. may or may not implement them .but you cannot ignore the moral effect of these.
how can a constituion of a democratic country ban poonool wearing? it has been DISCOVERED, PROVED tht drinking, meat eating r harmful in many ways to humanity. has it been DISCOVERED or PROVED that poonool wearing is harmful to humanity in any way? then why should indianconstitution ban that?
the culture of u.s. is diffrent from india. many things bannd in india r followed publicly in america- e.g. homosexuality. the constitution of india is very specific, articulate more than any other constitution in world about animal rights. u cannot ignore them. brahmins renounced animal sacrifice after it was DISCOVERED that it was wrong. but non brahmins, and some present day brahmins evn today aftr discovery of harmful effects of drinking, meat eating resort to that ignoring law, constitution. for your information indian constitution was drafted only in 1950,. brahmins renounced animal sacrificing many, many centuries before that. the present day meat eater brahmin is definitely inferior not only to yesterday brahmin but also present day non brahmin because inspite being a brahmin he consumes meat- its like a judge indulging in criminal activities.
i afree with your inference of scientific temper. but tellme are animal sacrifices,meat eating habits of scientific temper.
about tolerance- somebody may even say - in fact many in india have said and are still saying that u must be tolerant to killers terrorists also. the question is not whether u and i r tolerant. the point is indian culture and indian constitution r NOT TOLERANT to animal sacrifice, meat eating.

kala is a sankrit word meaning art. from that the tamil words kalai, kalaignar , kalaignan r all derived. the present c.m. of t.nadu said that 'HINDU' is an arabic word meaning 'thief'. by the same yardstick, Kalignar is not a pure tamil word. the exact tamil equivalen is KOOTHAADI - meaning a street dancer. u can confirm it from any source u can.

karunai means compassion. but if you pronounce the word in such a fashion adding an 'i' i.e.karunaii it means a black dog. karu + naii= karunaii .

mahatma has even said 'a country's civility can be judged by the way it treats its animals' but my quotaion regarding veggies can be found in 'WHAT IS HINDU DHARMA' by gandhji published by govt. of india. read the entire book.
late great leaders like morarji desai, kamaraj, nehru, rajaji implemented total prohibition in india when they were in power.it was a 100% success. in many countries there is total prohibition. i do not agree with your view onthis subject .
about caste, i am more botherd about what scriptures say and sanction. what happens in practice is not correct. caste is not inherited by birth say sastras.

indian constituion does not respect hindu values but HINDU DISCOVERIES. vegeteranism is not a value of belief. it is a DISCOVERY. u may not accept or respect values, beliefs. but u will have to respect discoveries. u cannot sayfor example that i do not respect newtons law. (remember even in olympic games some substances are banned because they give an unfair advantage to the consumer.similar logic applies to meat)

with regards, N.SURESH
 
hinduism vs rest

hi silver fox and all others!! sonia s not only a staunch catholic and anon veggie but a person whose hatred for brahmins / hinduism is very well known. just like actors, actresses don many roles with different make ups , politicians also do so. she once even went to tirupathi, kumbhmela to show that she is not anti hindu. do u know that the sonia govt. has written in text books that swamy ramakrishna paramahamsas is mentally retarded? the present central govt also says lord krishna was not born in india. it also says lord rama's is not a god. . all these r reportedly published in text books for school children. a catholic non veggie widow wears kumkum during election time and after election smears mud on voters face.

VITTALA VITTALA PANDURANGA!!

WITH REGARDS, N. SURESH
 
Sonia Gandhi Is Not A Practising Catholic

silverfox said:
Hello everybody in India:

When I was in India during the election time, I had noticed the pictures (boy! did I ever!) of Ms. Sonia Gandhi, wearing a 'kumkum' on her forehead; it was huge!! Since she is a staunch Catholic Christian, isn't it against her religion to wear 'pagan' symbols? I feel she was manipulating the uneducated masses and masqueraded as a Hindu purely for votes.

I would love to hear your comments and views.[/QUOTE

Mrs.ANTONIA MAINO ALIAS SONIA GANDHI is not a practising Roman Catholic. She claims to be a Kashmiri Pandit because her mother-in-law Indira Gandhi was one. But she has a soft corner for Xians, particularly Catholics.The present CM of Andhra Y.SAMUEL RAJASEKHARA REDDY, former CMs of Kerala A.K.ANTONY & OOMMEN CHANDY, former CM of Chhattisgarh AJIT JOGI,important functionaries of the Congress party like OSCAR FERNANDEZ & MARGARET ALVA are all Roman Catholics. One of the present Congress MLAs of TN, PETER ALPHONSE, also a Catholic, got his Congress Party nomination for the T.N. Assembly Elections because he is in the good books of the "Italian Mathaji" for obvious reasons. Incidentally this Peter Alphonse used to address meetings of Muslims & Christians when the BJP-led govt. was in power. Then he used to tell the audience how 2% of India's population,i.e., the Brahmins, were ruling India & how the RSS, an organisation of the Brahmins, was spreading hatred against Muslims & Christians. Probably he was under the mistaken notion that A.B.Vajpayee, Dr.Murali Manohar Joshi & L.K.Advani were all Brahmins. The first two are no doubt Brahmins but Mr.L.K.Advani is a non-Brahmin. Moreover although the RSS was started by the Chitpavan Brahmins of Maharashtra, it now has lakhs of non-Brahmin followers. The Brahmins may be only 2% of India's populaion but then Christians also constitute only 2.3% of India's population & the DE FACTO PM OF INDIA, Mrs.Sonia Gandhi, is an RC Christian ! Moreover what's the percentage of Europeans, especially Italians in India? What is the percentage of Sikhs, to which community the DE JURE PM OF INDIA MANMOHAN SINGH belongs? When Jawaharlal Nehru & Indira Gandhi were PMs, was it not tantamount to "RULE BY 2% of the population",i.e.,Brahmins?

Further it is not against Mrs.Sonia's religion to wear 'pagan symbols'. The Catholic Church in India allows its adherents to wear 'kumkum', flowers, etc. Moreover the Catholics of TN celebrate "THAER THIRUVIZHAS" (RATH YATRAS) like the Hindus. They also shave off their heads at Velankanni Church near Nagapatnam like the Hindus do at Palani, Tirupathi, Tiruthani, etc.
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is the topic forgotten

Being a fairly new member, I was impressed with some bloggers here. However, this topic though interesting seems to have been alive for the past two plus years. And now any of the recent posts do not seem to be in line with topic at all. Could some one bring it back to topic.

Let me offer my views as a restarter:

There will be various forms of deterrents and diversions to ones' beliefs in god and religion. As centuries pass by, the forms in which god will test us will also change. One such muse of god is conversion.

If we fall for conversion, still god will help us with other opportunities to attain him. As Jesus is also a realized soul like the great ones in Hinduism.

If we do not fall for conversion, still god will continue testing us until we fall into the right path of being spiritual in life and attaining self realization.

In Hinduism we do not grieve if a shiva bhakta becomes devoted to vishnu. Neither do we grieve if a vishnu bhakta become devoted to adi shankara. So why do we grieve if a person becomes devoted to Jesus.

It is only because, followers of Christ are christians and followers of all other mentioned above are hindus. So are we weak in our concept of ishta deiva?

Actually no. I am just being a devils advocate here.

If a person becomes a christian only to pursue spiritual life, we would be happy. If he becomes a realized soul, we would be happy. But, that has not been the case in millions. In fact, most of Christs teachings like that of Krishna center around realizing our self. But, the converts and the not converted both have not followed what our primary teachers - Jesus and Krishna and other forms of god have taught.

And so naturally it is only a socio-religious emotion and none to do with the welfare of the person converted or still in our own community or religion.

The only way to curb conversion, is to educate our people in the spiritual way of life and give them the good knowledge that Jesus is also a great one just like Krishna, or shiva. But, dont stop just there. Teach them by example of your own life, that being spiritual will uplift their life whether they follow a religion or no religion.
 
Good points Mr. Sridhar,
I believe that most of the Hindus do not fear or worry about other Hindus worshipping Jesus or Allah but they react and dislike when their own religion is being ridiculed. One has all the rights to say 'Christ's teachings are the best', but it becomes a problem when he says 'Only his teachigs are the best and the rest are all crap'. The same holds good in the Brahmin's own 'Iyer-Iyengar' conflicts on who is a great God crap.

What you said as the solution, is perfectly right. If someone has got a disease, he has to grow strong and prevent the disease to attack him again rather than shouting at the disease 'don't come, I warn you' etc.

The action plan for us is to set examples for our brothers and sisters.
 
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