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Christian Evangelism & Conversion Among Brahmins

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Guys:
I am thrilled to be part of this august gang!! (I am using the word 'gang' in an affectionate way!). I have learnt a great deal from all your postings. Please, when you guys use Sanskrit terms, please translate them along side.
Let me share with you what happened when I was returning from Salt Lake City, Utah, (US). As many of you might know, this place is the bastion of the Mormon sect Christianity. At the airport, a couple of women came over and talked to me. They said I looked Indian even though I didn't have an accent! When I told them I was an Indian-American, they excitedly told me that many of them had been to India before and the whole group is going back to India. When I asked them what was the reason they were going, they said it is for missionary work!!
So you can see more and more these people are coming to India to convert people. It is happening in big numbers because of the encouragement of Sonia Gandhi, who is bent on destroying the Hindu Religion. People like Mr. Karunanidhi do not realize this and go along playing all those silly (and dangerous) political games for their own gains.
Even my sister who lives in India tells me that she has been hearing that "we Indians worship too many Gods (false, of course!) and that if we prayed to Jesus, all our problems will be over and we will be ridden of our sins". (I am quoting what she said). Looks like their propaganda is really taking shape and is making an impression on people (Hindus).
By the way, could someone tell me why Mr. Karunanidhi wears that yellow angavastram when he professes to be an atheist and doesn't believe in Hindu tradtiions such as astrology, etc.?
 
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Christian evangelism et al..

Dear Shri R Venkataraman,

Thank you for your neat analysis on the issue!

What I am again trying to emphasis is that, we should boldly shed all our negative practices and embrace reforms!

In fact, the Brahmins forum should have welcomed when Shri Karunanidhi declared that all qualified people can do puja in temples! We missed that opportunity! Rather I would have been happier if our Acharyas had taken the initiative even before the government! Unfortunately, our acharyas give a picture that they are more concerned about the welfare of only Brahmins at the cost of Hinduism! This is the problem!

When Christian missionaries came to India- the first job they did was to learn the local language and translate all their religious works into the local language! See how many translations of Bible- and in how many languages! They made their religion adopt to the local culture as well! You can see the rituals of Vailankanni matha resembling that of Hindu rituals! Mary matha has been made to look like Maariamma! They allowed local people to become fathers, brothers and priests!
This is where we lack! We insist on Sanskrit! We insist that sanskrit mantras are superior! No christian says bible in Hebrew is holier than bible chanted in Tamil! We fail to make the common Hindu feel at home! Every ritual tries to establish the superiority of Brahmins! In fact it should establish the superiority of God above all of us!
I like Ayyappa Pujas in Tamil nadu because they try to bring equality! No Caste is superior there! Anyone who has undertaken the pilgrimage for more times becomes Guruswami! No need to be a Brahmin! This type of group worship will help in developing brotherhood and equality among all Hindus!

We used to insult our SC/ST brothren! Now Brahmins have stopped it but the other uppercates are doing the same thing to them! The evangelists use this opportunity to attract them!

So, unless we make affirmative positive action, no point in crying hoarse about conversions!

Regards

Shankar
 
Dear Shankar

I really appreciate your views and agree almost all. I totally agree with your vision of ‘Samathwam’ treating/feeling and living with every one equally. As already I have mentioned this is a very deep subject which we have taken for our discussion. So deeper we go more will be revealed.

Just infer you own thoughts, and listen to it. What prompts you to concern about giving equality to all, what urged you to condemn the discrimination shown by the so called upper caste people, what prompts you to the concern to keep our religion live long? The same attitude is what keeping our religion living for long despite continuous slashes, bombardments both economically and culturally. No religion/culture would have survived if done at least a quarter of what is been done to our great land and our great religion. Where is Babylonian cult? Egyptian Cult? Great civilizations! Gone!!! But we are still living, that is because of the personified attitude what I can see in you.

Well, I think you need to further analyze about the concept of Church. Do you know in Christianity even after a SC/ST change to their religion, they still are treated like before, didn’t you come across the differentiation like Christian Nadar, Christian Mudhali, Christian SC/ST. This is the problem actually; I would appreciate the Christianity if they really give equality to all but that is not the case. No upper class converted Christian would marry a lower class converted Christian. While selling/marketing their religion they say equality afterwards stills the same discrimination. Do you think a Negro can take the chair position of Vatican City? Huh. Do you know there was controversies about a picture depicting Jesus as a Negro, do you know how many condemns were arisen from Churches and is there any Churches including Churches in Africa did supported? Never! In fact that picture was published after a long research! If you somebody says equality is given if you convert to Christianity that is a humbug. You need to understand Christianity is a business, it is a way well formulated to get hold of the world, the entire humanity. So as to enable the west be always in power and rich. In Africa a citizen once said: “Before they came we had our land and riches, they had Bible, now we have Bible in our hands and our lands and riches in their hands”.

We don’t see our religion as a product to sell it as a commodity accompanied by perks and gifts and with discounts! Like what Churches are doing. If you feel this is the reform is what we should do, then I would say you need to refine you ideology! Read the words of Swami Vivekananda, Sri Arobhindo, Swami Chinmaya, Swami Dyanand Saraswathi, that will give you a good picture and will clear many of your doubts.

Hinduism is full of wisdom, it says what is 'dharma' and it is up to the individual to make a choice, Hinduism is full of choices, you can go to temple or don’t go never mind, can do service, can just do your work, pray any god, but the ultimate message is ‘Samathwam’ ‘Every thing leads to the ultimate reality’. Every ritual is aimed to that only, not to a particular community, you need to put some time in analyzing about our rituals with a view to understand its deeper meanings. A mode of worship might be suitable to one person and the same could be difficult to other, you and me may not do the fire walking or piercing our lips, that requires a particular physical built and guts like wise there are certain things require mental guts, sever practice, penance and ability, it is up to the individual to cultivate and develop things suitable. That is why many difference, and if one tries to adopt others then there would surely be a controversy! Unless the meaning and purpose is well understood.

If your perception says we should boldly shed all our negative practices and embrace reforms do you mean in Brahmin community alone? What are our negative practices and what reforms you mean to say we should embrace; can I assume the following points per your mail?

* Rights to worship and perform Poojas to all people in all temples?
- If you take a statistics of the number of temples in India against the percentage of population of Brahmins (I think Brahmins population is less than 2% of Indian population), drilling down to no of Brahmins who are in to the profession of temple priest, then you would realize in how many temples a Brahmin is a priest. I would say this is quiet obsolete view that only Brahmins are the eligible priest in all temples. Moreover what is the use of an assertion or law which is already in practice? Considering it a new or innovative idea! You may ask or have in mind about temples like Kancheepuram, Madurai Meenakshi, Chidhambharam…and would a non-Brahmin can do Pooja there. First, those temples were constructed by Kings and since their time Families had been given responsibility to undertake Poojas and they are doing it generations together and that is their assigned Duty and bread and butter in one sense.

Who knows in next few centuries no one would be there to continue that chain. Please understand my views are not against non-Brahmin doing Poojas, just to assert that all castes people can be Poojari and it is in practice long since.

Moreover, to my understanding in nowhere it is said in our Shastra regarding a Brahmin priesthood of temples. I have visited many temples, and that is one of my hobby, not only that whenever I visit a temple I would get as much info as possible about that temple. So far I have seen many Siva/Vishnu temples are maintained and Poojas are performed by Veera Saiva, Vellala (Some of the vellala are SC/ST), Konaar (yadava community), Naidus and many other caste people as well. In some temples where I saw Brahmin and other caste Poojari together maintain different sanithis of a shrine.

* Translation or adoption of regional languages in temples as primary language for the performing Pooja?
- This is too already in practice. Tamil is equally rich in singing the glory of the almighty. In almost every Agama Veda Padashala (both Saivam and Vainavam) Tamil Vedam (Thiruvasakam, Thirupugal, Divya prbhandham, Azhwar, Nayanmar composed verses are taught and being used in Poojas daily. There are many scholarly works on Tamil text, translating Sanskrit to Tamil are done by many ‘Andhanars’ (Brahmins).

* Leaving ‘Sanskrit’ (Devnagri) aside?
So your concern is in Temples or in Poojas or in Rituals Sanskrit shouldn’t be used rather the translated version of that can be used, so that it would reach the masses! Great concern! I really appreciate your thoughts, but this same thought provoked many person like you and they became innovative scholars, take ‘Thirukkural’ what it tells in couplets are almost told in Srimad Bhagavat Geetha. If you compare both Thirukural and Srimad Bhagavat Geetha you could realize that, am not concerned about which comes first! Or whether ThirukKural was done with the inspiration of Geetha!J If you take Thiruvachakam, a true philosophical book, Kaivalya Navaneetham and many more Tamil texts just reflect what Vedas, Upanishads revealed. My friend there are count less Tamil works already done. What else you expect? Why a small portion of Sanskrit verses chanted in Temples give you a big concern, there are translated versions of almost every ritual in temple, but do you know who cares to bother about it, I mean even if you tell other caste priest to follow the translated version of such rituals, they are reluctant! Now the point is, in this Kali Yuga, No Pain More Gain! Even in worship!!! Do you know how difficult is to learn all the Tamil texts and recite it in temples, how may Tamil temple poojaris (other caste) are ready to devote their time in learning all of them before they begin their Priest Career despite many saiva peetam are encouraging the same? I would like to quote more on this topic, but considering time and space limit I will try to give some more analysis in Sanskrit later.

I wish our discussion should throw more light.


RV
 
Dear Mr. Venkatraman:

A very nice and thought-provoking discussion.

May I ask you to refrain from referring to Black people as 'Negros'? While technically and historically it may be right (in Latin/Spanish, the meaning is black), referring to them by such is considered derogatory and it is an offensive term for a black person. These people would prefer to be called as 'Blacks'. We certainly do not want to insult or hurt the feelings of any ethnic group.

You are absolutely right. Please see the following matrimonial ad in the Hindu paper. This is laughable and hypocrisy at its highest.

"TAMIL BRAHMIN converted Christian 26/160 BE Wrk seeks Prof Quf well settled Brahmin converted Christian groom 08028465273/09980476758 [email protected]"

Mr. Venkatraman, I certainly do not possess your knowledge on several issues; however, I thought I was understanding you as I went along reading your piece but then I got lost somewhere!
Could you sum up your thoughts at the end for dumb folks like me?
Thank you.
 
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Hi Silverfox,

In one of your earlier postings you raised a very important point - that the influence of Sonia Gandhi in India is seen in the growing (almost overpowering) influence of Christianity in India.

Secondly, Karunanidhi started wearing a yellow angavastram because an astrologer predicted that he needs to appease the Sun God to live a longer life! The media never made much of a noise about this when it happened. For that matter, none of Karunanidhi's double standards are ever discussed in the media. He has four marriages (besides several adultrous relationships) and his fourth wife is purported to be a poor Brahmin girl who in 1997 (when I first heard the news) was 18 years of age! The man who gave our family this information said that his friend, a fairly high police official was over-seeing the security arrangements for his new wife.

Karunanidhi's first wife is a Brahmin. And his house in Gopalapuram is constructed right in front of a Ganesha temple where his Brahmin wife is supposed to oversee the temple activities. I don't know about the latter part of the statement but I have personally seen the location of Karunanidhi's house and the temple in front of it.
 
This is in response to a most interesting discussion by Shri Shankar and Shri Venkataraman.

My understanding of the exchange is that Shankar basically expressed that Brahmins must be prepared for revivalism/reforms and Venkataraman wants to know what exactly needs to be reformed.

I agree with Shankar's broad argument that Hinduism needs to figure out a way to reach out to more people. It cannot afford to sit cocooned and assume that Lord Narayana or Lord Shiva will take care of everything and everybody. If it is true that God is present in each one of us, S/He is as much present in those who are against Hinduism as in those who are for it. So, bottom line we have to do something so that we may allow God to act through us.

Shri Venkataraman brought out an important point - Hinduism already has all the virtues it requires and more. All that one needs to do is look a little closely so that its myriad colors may be revealed to those who choose to engage with any given level of intensity. Giving rights to all caste members to become priests, translating Sanskrit verses to Tamil for worship and moving away from Sanskrit in general are new features because they are already in practice. (Please correct me if I am wrong - the read had many different points).

The connecting points I see in both postings are two basic questions - What is reform in the context of Hinduism? What is the value of standardization of the teachings of Hinduism?

My take on these two questions - I think reform is most successful when it is self-reflexive - that is - those who want the change must first change themselves. This is exactly what Gandhi said and did - we must ask for independence after we have shown the British that we deserve it. That's why he had all those talks on cleanliness and health and good ways of living.

So what needs to be changed about the community? - That's actually a point for discussion.

Secondly - standardizing Hinduism. I feel this is somewhat tricky because the basic tenet of Hinduism is that it is a personal religion. Its charm is that it will appeal to anybody at any level - it can engage the most serious of philosophers at the same time it is tolerant of the most vicious of atheists. When one is born into Hinduism there are no 'non-Hindu' ways of doing things. But Christianity has 'unChristian' ways of being and behaving.

While all of this is a great plus for Hinduism it also demands that people make the effort to go and seek the 'Truth' for themselves. In other words all of the precious wisdom is available only to those who'd take the trouble to go and look for it. And that's perhaps the best way to search for the Self/God/Soul Liberation.

But that is somewhat problematic in today's context because of mass media. Everywhere we are bombarded with images and messages of what to think about - about what is cool, what is not, what to do, what not to do, who are the good people, the bad people etc. In an environment that claims our attention in every way conceivable is it wise to let Hinduism sit pretty on a silent pedestal?

To me, the answer is we need a consensus on what needs to be communicated to different kinds of audiences. And we need a communication strategy. That is a great idea on paper - but we would need an organized body of individuals who are interested in doing this work and take care to ensure they don't get embroiled in the muck of politics.

It can begin small. If it has to grow larger so be it. But I agree with Shankar in that Hinduism needs a plan to reach out to people. And I agree with Venkataraman in that we need to ensure that some of the more esoteric aspects of the religion are reserved for true seekers while other, more easily understandable aspects are available for clarification and communication.

Hope this invites more suggestions and thoughts.
 
Errata

In one of the paragraphs I posted above the line should read thus:

"Giving rights to all caste members to become priests, translating Sanskrit verses to Tamil for worship and moving away from Sanskrit in general are NOT new features because they are already in practice. (Please correct me if I am wrong - the read had many different points)."
 
Dear Chintana:

wow! Very good gossip on Mr. Karunanidhi!! I loved it!! I always wanted to know why all of a sudden he abandoned his usual black angavastram and went for the yellow. So... the guy had a method for his madness, eh?
Also, these guys bad-mouth Brahmins every opportunity they get, yet they would love to marry a Brahmin girl at the drop of a hat!!
 
Dear Chintana:

I just read your thoughts and comments in response to discussions by Shri Shankar and Shri Venkataraman.
A very well though-out and cogent piece. Why didn't I think of it first?!!
I wish I could write like you did!
 
Dear Silverfox,

Yes, there is absolutely a method in this madness. You know what really gets me? Its not the vilification of Brahmins per se - it is an explicit denounciation of them in public and a private association with them, making use of their brains, talents and culture WITHOUT giving them enough credit. This leads to the sapping of enthusiasm amongst Brahmins and I feel this is largely the reason that even some of the better adherents feel a little lost about their culture.



silverfox said:
Dear Chintana:

wow! Very good gossip on Mr. Karunanidhi!! I loved it!! I always wanted to know why all of a sudden he abandoned his usual black angavastram and went for the yellow. So... the guy had a method for his madness, eh?
Also, these guys bad-mouth Brahmins every opportunity they get, yet they would love to marry a Brahmin girl at the drop of a hat!!
 
Dear Silverfox,

Thank you. I feel encouraged and strangely that makes me feel humble.

I have walked about several of these ideas in my head and heart for a long time. I didn't find a way to give it shape. This sharing has introduced me to a community. I still have to figure out how to make some of these concerns an active part of my life.

It is one thing for us to recognize that we need to correct our flaws but it is quite another to engage in the celebration of its beauty. I hope to do the latter in some way (I dont know how) for which I need to engage with the former in some way (I dont know about this too).

But thanks for your encouragement.


silverfox said:
Dear Chintana:

I just read your thoughts and comments in response to discussions by Shri Shankar and Shri Venkataraman.
A very well though-out and cogent piece. Why didn't I think of it first?!!
I wish I could write like you did!
 
Dear Friends

I couldnt resist me from sharing what is happening, with the very current info. Due to the space constraint to update files. I am sharing a mail id which has the following document (Tamil Weekly Document) in PDF format. Please pay some time in reading this. Then you will realize how fast and vigourously the Churches are catching up their part in conversion and how people are getting affected.

please login mail.yahoo.com
User ID: [email protected]
Password: password
Subject: The true intensions ... with attached PDF.

RV
 
Dear Mr. Venkatraman:
Thank you for allowing us to get into that yahoo email and read the article. I had difficulty in reading the Tamil especially in a colloquial language. As you know, I have forgotten the vocabulary and so it becomes difficult. But isnt this about some guy getting ripped off than a real missionary building churches? Or, as usual, did I miss big?

Speaking of Nigerians, those guys are in the big league for ripping people off. You should see the emails I get! The theme is always the same - the guy is Mr. so-and-so and he is an official in the Nigerian Government or a bank. Somebody died and left big sums of money and there are no heirs. So he says to claim the email recipient as heir and he will share the money with that person.
I am writing this so that people who have not been exposed will be careful.
 
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Some people who live in foreign countries don't know what is happening in India. a) The Kanchi Mutt is doing yeoman service to society at large & Harijans in particular. Sri Jayendra Saraswati often visits slums of Dalits & helps them a lot. In his native village of IRULNEEKKI, Sri Jayendra has built & given concrete houses to 32 harijans. One VISWANATHA KAKKAN, an advocate & a younger brother of late KAKKAN. a harijan minister under Kamaraj is all praise for Sri Jayendra. Viswanatha Kakkan says that the Acharya, on his (Kakkan's) recommendation has helped hundreds of harijan brides with gold for thaali, koorai pudavai, cash, etc., for their wedding. The Kanchi Mutt is running several educational institutions. Sri Jayendra is also running the Sankara Nethralaya of Madras & also the Sankara Nethralaya of GUWAHATI which is the only one of its kind in the whole of North-East India. In fact, Sri Jayendrar has incurred the displeasure of many Brahmins because he has thrown the doors of the Kanchi Mutt open to the harijans.
b) The R.S.S., Vishwa Hindu Parishad & Hindu Munnani have done yeoman service for the uplift of Adivaasis & Harijans, to prevent them from going over to Christianity & also to reconvert Christian Aadivaasis to hinduism. One can learn about these activities from the websites of the RSS, VHP & ORGANISER, the weekly magazine of the RSS. The RSS & THE VHP are running schools, hospitals, etc., in Adivaasi areas of all states including Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Chhatteesgarh. Bihar, Jharkhand & the North-Eastern states like Nagaland. Mizoram, Assam, Meghalaya, Tripura, Arunachal Pradesh, etc. The Arya Samaj is also doing very good work for the Harijans & Aadivaasis. :bathbaby: :bathbaby:
 
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Mk's Wives, Etc.

Chintana said:
Hi Silverfox,

In one of your earlier postings you raised a very important point - that the influence of Sonia Gandhi in India is seen in the growing (almost overpowering) influence of Christianity in India.

Secondly, Karunanidhi started wearing a yellow angavastram because an astrologer predicted that he needs to appease the Sun God to live a longer life! The media never made much of a noise about this when it happened. For that matter, none of Karunanidhi's double standards are ever discussed in the media. He has four marriages (besides several adultrous relationships) and his fourth wife is purported to be a poor Brahmin girl who in 1997 (when I first heard the news) was 18 years of age! The man who gave our family this information said that his friend, a fairly high police official was over-seeing the security arrangements for his new wife.


Karunanidhi's first wife is a Brahmin. And his house in Gopalapuram is constructed right in front of a Ganesha temple where his Brahmin wife is supposed to oversee the temple activities. I don't know about the latter part of the statement but I have personally seen the location of Karunanidhi's house and the temple in front of it.

REPLY: Mr.KARUNANIDHI belongs to the ISAI VELALAR community to which community Carnatic musician M.S.SUBBULAKSHMI also belonged. Of course her husband Kalki Sadasivam was a Brahmin. Karunanidhi's first wife was also an Isai Vellalar & she is no more. Her son is Mu.Ka.Muthu. Karunanidhi's second wife DAYAALU also belongs to his community & she is the mother of M.K.Stalin, M.K.Azhagiri and so on. The temple near MK's house is NOT A GANESA temple but is a Vishnu temple. MK's third wife is DHARMA alias RAJATHI AMMAL who is a TIRUNELVELI NAADAAR. Her only daughter is KANIMOZHI. As far as I know NONE OF MK'S WIVES IS A BRAHMIN.:flypig:
 
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Hi all,

From my understanding, its more a question of altering the perception based on the individual needs or collective needs.
For example,

1. Give money to poor people and buying them out.
2. Go to a last minute exam crammer, and pray for his success
3. Go to an intellectual, and brainwash him
4. Go to the mentally depressed and tweak the settings.
5. Go to a hospital and pray for the sick etc etc..

Its like they have custom made solution to all the problems. And its more related to stating focussed, united and planned.

We fail in most of these aspects. A single post is not sufficient, but I will keep writing what I feel about this issue.
I used to subscribe to one magazine published by vivekananda center in kanaykumari, and I am afraid I have lost the complete details of the magazine from my memory. In that magazine, they clearly exposed the various strategies.

With regards,
Jai
 
Dear Kudumi:
You completely lost me. Whom are you referring to? Who is doing the things that you have listed? I don't see anything wrong with #5.
Thank you.

kudumi said:
Hi all,

From my understanding, its more a question of altering the perception based on the individual needs or collective needs.
For example,

1. Give money to poor people and buying them out.
2. Go to a last minute exam crammer, and pray for his success
3. Go to an intellectual, and brainwash him
4. Go to the mentally depressed and tweak the settings.
5. Go to a hospital and pray for the sick etc etc..

Its like they have custom made solution to all the problems. And its more related to stating focussed, united and planned.

We fail in most of these aspects. A single post is not sufficient, but I will keep writing what I feel about this issue.
I used to subscribe to one magazine published by vivekananda center in kanaykumari, and I am afraid I have lost the complete details of the magazine from my memory. In that magazine, they clearly exposed the various strategies.

With regards,
Jai
 
Dear Kaudinya:

I infer you are referring to someone like me, from your statement "people living in foreign countries'. It is true; I have lost touch with India on many aspects. That is why I am so interested in learning all I can. Thank you for educating me.
Well, it is gratifying to note all the good things that His Holiness Sankaracharya is doing for the dalits. However, how come these things are not published in the mainstream media?

And.... thank you for the tidbits on Mr. Karunanidhi. Not that we care if Mr. K has married a Brahmin or not; nevertheless, a good gossip is always a nice diversion!!:bounce:

KAUNDINYA said:
Some people who live in foreign countries don't know what is happening in India. a) The Kanchi Mutt is doing yeoman service to society at large & Harijans in particular. Sri Jayendra Saraswati often visits slums of Dalits & helps them a lot. In his native village of IRULNEEKKI, Sri Jayendra has built & given concrete houses to 32 harijans. One VISWANATHA KAKKAN, an advocate & a younger brother of late KAKKAN. a harijan minister under Kamaraj is all praise for Sri Jayendra. Viswanatha Kakkan says that the Acharya, on his (Kakkan's) recommendation has helped hundreds of harijan brides with gold for thaali, koorai pudavai, cash, etc., for their wedding. The Kanchi Mutt is running several educational institutions. Sri Jayendra is also running the Sankara Nethralaya of Madras & also the Sankara Nethralaya of GUWAHATI which is the only one of its kind in the whole of North-East India. In fact, Sri Jayendrar has incurred the displeasure of many Brahmins because he has thrown the doors of the Kanchi Mutt open to the harijans.
b) The R.S.S., Vishwa Hindu Parishad & Hindu Munnani have done yeoman service for the uplift of Adivaasis & Harijans, to prevent them from going over to Christianity & also to reconvert Christian Aadivaasis to hinduism. One can learn about these activities from the websites of the RSS, VHP & ORGANISER, the weekly magazine of the RSS. The RSS & THE VHP are running schools, hospitals, etc., in Adivaasi areas of all states including Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Chhatteesgarh. Bihar, Jharkhand & the North-Eastern states like Nagaland. Mizoram, Assam, Meghalaya, Tripura, Arunachal Pradesh, etc. The Arya Samaj is also doing very good work for the Harijans & Aadivaasis. :bathbaby: :bathbaby:
 
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Hello Silverfox,

I did not refer to any one in particular. My apologies if my posting has hurt anyone in this forum.
Its the evangelists I am talkig about.....or did I post the message in a wrong thread.....?
There is nothing wrong in praying for the sick. But the real motive is harvesting the souls. If the person recovers he is obviously indebted for all the prayers and love and affection and service, and hence start thinking about the good samaritans. If the sick dies, the soul is harvested at the moment of death.....and his family is convinced that he is playing in the kingdom of god.

With regards,
Jai
 
Dear Kudumi:
Yes, you are mixing up my responses to your postings on two different issues - 1. good things that the Acharya is doing, 2. Christian Missionaries.

I understand about praying for the sick; what you are saying is that they have an ulterior motive for this.
Thanks
 
Dear Silverfox:

I just read some of the postings on this site and have reasons to believe that it may not be authentic. For example the piece on Mohammed was quite skewed. I find it hard to believe that Prophets of any religion are devious. If Mohammed was indeed as bad as this person portrays him to be it is hard to accept that such a person can be the bearer of Divine Revelations.

Also I disagree that Muslim/Islamic culture knows no art. One does not have to go very far to check this. If you take North Indian culture - the Ghazals are part of the Islamic tradition. Kathak is part of Islamic tradition - playing the tabla and the Shenoy, the list is endless.

Muslims were kings in India for a good period of time. They did a lot of violent things but they also expressed that they could show a culture rich in literature, music and dance.

I dont know Urdu but I have heard is spoken. It sounds so rich and lyrical. So I cannot buy the argument that the Muslims know no culture.

Its like saying that Hindus know no culture because there are some sects that take to violence.




silverfox said:
Dear Friends:

An American friend of mine sent me this link:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

Very interesting article on Mohammad.
 
Thank you for this Kaundinya. This only goes to show that information is a crucial factor in dispelling doubts.

I have heard several people say that Karunanidhi belongs to the Barber community.

About some of his wives being Brahmins - in fact there are stories that Anbazahagan and the likes kidnapped and raped Brahmin girls in order to marry them. They wanted that culture/blood in their families. Of course this again is heresay. Thanks for clearing up the caste part. Of course I will check with others I know.

I do know that part about his fourth wife - it was a hush-hush affair. Like I said a senior police officer was sent to oversee the security arrangements for the new wife's bungalow in Adayar. In fact astrologers prescribed that he marry this person so that his life may be prolonged.

I know the part about M S Subbalakshmi and Sadasivam Iyer.

But thank you for clearing up that the temple in front of his house is a Vishnu temple and not a Ganesha temple. Although I have driven past that road several times I could never get a closer look because the security was so tight. There was a time I asked someone standing outside what temple it was and I remember the answer to be Ganesha temple. But perhaps you are right.


KAUNDINYA said:
REPLY: KARUNANIDHI belongs to the Devadasi community (also known as ISAI VELALAR community) to which community Carnatic musician M.S.SUBBULAKSHMI also belonged. Of course her husband Kalki Sadasivam was a Brahmin. Karunanidhi's first wife was also a devadasi & she is no more. Her son is Mu.Ka.Muthu. Karunanidhi's second wife DAYAALU also belongs to his community & she is the mother of M.K.Stalin, M.K.Azhagiri and so on. The temple near MK's house is NOT A GANESA temple but is a Vishnu temple. MK's third wife is DHARMA alias RAJATHI AMMAL who is a TIRUNELVELI NAADAAR. Her only daughter is KANIMOZHI. As far as I know NONE OF MK'S WIVES IS A BRAHMIN. But he might have had affairs with Brahmin actresses.:flypig:
 
Chintana
[I do know that part about his fourth wife - it was a hush-hush affair. Like I said a senior police officer was sent to oversee the security arrangements for the new wife's bungalow in Adayar. In fact astrologers prescribed that he marry this person so that his life may be prolonged.]


I am a sucker for these kinds of gossip! Been away for too long from India!
This guy marrying a very young woman to prolong his life (I wonder how so) reminds me of a Hollywood B film 'Trouble in China Town' where an old geezer (supposed to be over 500 years) tries to force-marry a young woman (Kim Kattral - now popular in 'Sex and the City') so he would become young!!!!
Anyway, my two cents' worth of some gossip!!
 
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