Brahmin-Is it by birth?

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

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I am posting in this discussion relutantly. My views on Caste/Varna system is known to all the members.

sapr333 had asked why we could not locate any Brahmin among the millions of Dalits in India.

In the late fifties Indian history was introduced in Indian schools. We were studying British history till then. I knew more about Henry VIII, his antics and Anne Boleyn than about Harsha or Samudra Gupta.

When I first read about B.R. Ambedkar it was as the Father of the Indian Constitution. This used a question is all the tests. It is only much later that I learnt about his being a leader of the Dalits and his pioneering work for the upliftment of Dalits.

Again the first time I heard about K.R. Narayanan was as a brilliant scholar who studied in London School of economics and who was chosen by Jawaharlal Nehru ( may be V.K. Krishna Menon) for the foreign service.

Let us ask ourselves this question?

Who made Ambedkar, the father of the Indian constitution to a mere Dalit leader?

Who made K.R. Narayanan a brilliant academecian to a mere Dalit candidate for president?

I remember a boy from Tamil Nadu who was in the U.S for higher education. He was a Dalit and his father was a farm labourer. He was brilliant in college. When he got admission to a U.S university with full fellowship, his friends raised money for his fare and other expenses. He landed in U.S almost only with the shirt on his back. The white students were scared of him because of his brilliance and biting wit.

He did not come back to India. As he explained to my mother "In India i will be considered only a Dalit. No one will appreciate my merit. In the U.S I face discrimination being an Indian. Still my merit will be recognized." This was in the early 70s.

Now who is responsible for this state of affairs? Politicians?

We also tend to blame the politicians for everything. When the first caste based parties came up in Bihar everyone was critical and a number of articles were written about caste politics being the worst kind of politics.

Later gradually everyone accepted it. Why?

The fact is that for most of the Indians the question of caste lies just beneath the thin veneer of sophistication. Everything is caste.

When will we ever learn?

Dr. Abdul Kalam had visited the Shringeri Mutt recentlu and spent a lot of time discussing aspects of Hindu religion with the Shringeri Guru. Dr. Abdul Kalam is considered by many Tamil Brahmins to be a Tamil Brahmin. In fact I would say he is a truer Brahmin that most of the born Brahmins.

So there is hope.

 

[happyhindu]

1) Keeping in mind the Barathiyar's song, "Jaathigal Illaiyadi Paapa", do you agree with the point of abolition of all Jaathis, incl Jathi Brahmin, and hold firmly on the guna/jana brahmnas in terms of vocation/spirituality.

if there were abolition of jaathi brahmins, ie, brahmins based on occupations, i accept.

but can there be an abolition of jaati brahmins, ie, brahmins based on descent.....no i don't think so.

actually everything is brahmin, everyone is brahmin, everyone has been a brahmin before or will be one in future - if we go by descent alone.

but if one is a brahmin by descent in the current birth (as in the case of priests of tirumala who live their descent), then i will accept it and not seek to go against it....it really does take a great deal of effort for such a brahmana to live his jaathi...

at the same time, if you were to earnestly seek a brahmin guru and live life like a brahmachary or become a brahmin, i will accept you too as a brahmin..

2) In some other thread, Nacchinarkinian shared a different interesting view, ie, "Jaathi is a culture and identity, so it should remain, and every one would love to hold on to their culture".

i agree with sri n ji.

to me too jaati is culture and no one shd be asked to give up their culture...

brahmin jaati cultures were formed over the last 1500 years...even communities that were formed less than 500 years back are not willing to give up their culture...

moreover what guarantee is there that if caste-hindus give up their culture then it will automatically raise the culture of non-caste-hindus...

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

In some other thread, Nacchinarkinian shared a different interesting view, ie, "Jaathi is a culture and identity, so it should remain, and every one would love to hold on to their culture".

Don't tell me that you want people to give up Chetti Nadu cuisine and Thayir Satham and Sambar for a standardized Cuisine (may be Pizza and hot dogs). Every community has its own language, customs, cuisine etc. Asking a Kongu Nadu Gounder or a Nanchil Nadu Vellala to give up their unique Tamil witll be sacrilegious. I enjoy Nanchilnadan's novels because it remind me of home. I remember Jayakanthan's novels many of which were based on a community. Written in their language and about their customs. Like the Saurashtrian Brahmins.

The Dalits have also a culture and a language of their own. Unfortunately most of the earlier Dalit writers wrote only about the social ills. But of late they have started writing novels based on their communities. These lead to better understanding among the communities.

Attitudes are based on prejudices. Mariamman was considered by many Brahmins to be a Goddess of the other castes. But in Devi Mahatmyam it is clearly mentioned that Devi will come as Maha Mari. "mahamari swarupaya." When Attukkal Bhagavathy temple in Trivandrum was only a Mariamman temple very few brahmins visited it or participated in the Kodai festival . Now you call her Bhagavathy (It was her name all along) and call Kodai, Pongale even Brahmin women are willing to participate.

We can not throw out the Baby with the bath water. Distinct culture of all the communities have to be nurtured. When you are struggling for survival, you can not afford to talk about culture. With the improved living conditions, we have to make an effort to bring to life the culture ( some times long forgotten) of the different communities.

 

[KRS]

Just as an addendum to the lucid postings of Srimathi HH Ji and Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji:

We see the importance of one's born culture's (birth identity) influence by the unique styles of Indian Christianity and Indian Islam as differentiated from their origins elsewhere.

It is very important to remove social ills affecting today's way of living without slamming the culture/life style of any community. Avidya can only be removed through patience, education and above all moving everyone up through Maslow's pyramid.

Regards,
KRS

 

[happyhindu]

KRSji,

How can tribals and the poorest of the poor be benefitted from Maslow's hirearchy of needs? Can there be hope for a solution here...can please explain please...

i still think that once everyone receives basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, equal opportunities, and a life of dignity, nobody really will bother abt any caste thing...(to me) it is still just a political tool creating tremendous pressure on ppl (by depriving them of opportunities) that simply wanna life their life quietly following their faith..and ofcourse in an age of easily flarable emotions, i suppose its best one treads even words of gurus with some caution. (wonder if am being cynical)..

Thanks.

 

[happyhindu]

this is a very nice solution you have pointed out sri n-ji: that of writing novels based on communities leading to better understanding.

i esp liked the example of mariamman / bhagavathy temple that resulted in participation from all.

it is true that the contributions of tribal communities to hindusim is very large...and somehow their pride and sense of belonging to it has eroded over the years.

esp liked this much:

"With the improved living conditions, we have to make an effort to bring to life the culture ( some times long forgotten) of the different communities".


regards.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

I am echoing what Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji has said about improving social conditions to appreciate different cultures.

This is why economic upliftment for all poor in India is very important. Once the basic needs are satisfied, the mind will automatically ask the question, 'who am I?'.

Over the past 40 years, since I left India, despite the noise of some fringe elements, I see a secular life slowly evolving where people are comingling. This trend will only accelerate in the future. I have no doubt about that.

Faith is becoming more of what it should be, to a large number of folks in India. A personal God and a personal way of worship. All the social mores surrounding the Jathi systems are disappearing (albeit some people are kicking and screaming to adjust to this brave new world).

It will take some time before the political system catches up with this reality. I see an younger generation that is very idealistic and wants to think about the welfare of India in general.

Regards,
KRS

KRSji,

How can tribals and the poorest of the poor be benefitted from Maslow's hirearchy of needs? Can there be hope for a solution here...can please explain please...

i still think that once everyone receives basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, equal opportunities, and a life of dignity, nobody really will bother abt any caste thing...(to me) it is still just a political tool creating tremendous pressure on ppl (by depriving them of opportunities) that simply wanna life their life quietly following their faith..and ofcourse in an age of easily flarable emotions, i suppose its best one treads even words of gurus with some caution. (wonder if am being cynical)..

Thanks.

 

[sapr333]

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

This is why economic upliftment for all poor in India is very important. Once the basic needs are satisfied, the mind will automatically ask the question, 'who am I?'.


KRS

I feel, the first priority is Literacy than economy... Now that rice in Public Distribution System is available for Rs. 1/Kg (2 cents), daily bread is not an issue..

The core issue is Literacy.. Once all Indians become literate (at the moment its 62%), I feel, these issues will get sorted out...

Yes, Education is Empowerment!! Lets work for India towards cent percent literate state

 

[[email protected]]

To All As for as i concerned that those who understand the Par Brahm and merge with the lord while die to to live is a Brahmin. Lot of ref available in our scriptures.S.R.K.

 

[KRS]

sapr333,

Economic upliftment of a whole population can only be done through education, nowadays. There is no conflict.

On the other hand, education alone without economic opportunities will lead to frustration and violence.

Regards,
KRS

I feel, the first priority is Literacy than economy... Now that rice in Public Distribution System is available for Rs. 1/Kg (2 cents), daily bread is not an issue..

The core issue is Literacy.. Once all Indians become literate (at the moment its 62%), I feel, these issues will get sorted out...

Yes, Education is Empowerment!! Lets work for India towards cent percent literate state

 

[sapr333]

sapr333,

On the other hand, education alone without economic opportunities will lead to frustration and violence.

Regards,
KRS

Apart from economy, Literacy empowers the society to wake up and gives them the opportunity to get liberated themselves. Had India been a cent percent literacy in the past, Im sure these 'Reservations' wouldnt have come to application.Because, the learned country men, would have found themselves ways and means to come up of their own.

Take for eg, Kerala.. for long decades, there is a severe unemployement problem due to lack of infrastructure and project. But, the people have moved out to different parts of the world, and made their living. The women with SSLC all have found jobs across the country as Nurses.

And If we got to look in to the U.N literacy statistics, most of countries which has high literacy rates are equally having a flourishing economy.

So, I think, the first priority of the Govt. should be, compulsory education..In my view literacy doesnt mean to read&write..Rather, atleast till studying till SSLC, be a must.And we need to open lot of colleges.

 

[pbkhema]

Namaste all
I do not want to say much exceptto mention about VISWAMITRA.
All know about him.Birth alone cannot be the criterion.It was not so in the Puranic Times.Later the Varna situation grew.Now?

 

[suvarchas]

I remember one of the interesting points shared by handle Nacchinarkinian in some other thread.. He said, ''look, its our culture, and we enjoy Idli and vada, whats the problem... Take Jaathi as culture and identity, which every person has..'' I fully agree with him.. Spaniards/Irish/Yorkshirians do have their own identity and maintain that.. For eg, Cricketer Jeoffrey Boycott often jokes in pride about his Yorkshire accent...Crikit..Huhndreds..etc. They do carry this by birth, but they dont come under the definition of racism.

The problem here is, when we add Guna to a Brahmin... Being good/guna/better moral than the other/better learned than other by birth, doest come by birth. If any group claims such thing , as ordained quality by birth, then it amounts to racism..[/COLOR]

I think, handle Suvarcha needs to clarify this.

Dear Sir,Bhagavat Gita makes it very clear that the four varnas were created according to gunas as ordained by Bhagavan.Never does it mention that we need to again go for determining Brahmin according to Guna indirectly implying that Gunas would be inherent .If is not so how do we see pedigree in animals and not in human race?I may be accused of racism but I have to recognise a spade as a spade

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sir,Bhagavat Gita makes it very clear that the four varnas were created according to gunas as ordained by Bhagavan.Never does it mention that we need to again go for determining Brahmin according to Guna indirectly implying that Gunas would be inherent .If is not so how do we see pedigree in animals and not in human race?I may be accused of racism but I have to recognise a spade as a spade

Dear Suvarchas,

i just have two questions to ask of you:

1) Is ego also inherited? If gunas are inherited, can we say that if a brahmin displays qualities of ego and aggresiveness, then that too is inherited? Are such qualities expected of a brahmin? Between naturam godse and amritanandamayi, who wud you consider to have brahmin qualites inherited in them?

2) Did bhagvan Krishna ever say that gunas wud be inherited based on occupation groups or jaatis ? Please could you explain this part to me.

Thanks.

 

[sapr333]

.Never does it mention that we need to again go for determining Brahmin according to Guna indirectly implying that Gunas would be inherent .If is not so how do we see pedigree in animals and not in human race?I may be accused of racism but I have to recognise a spade as a spade

Lets keep aside racist context,and focus on inheritance of Guna.

You shared an interesting analogy,pedigree in animals, to prove inheritance guna..

At the outset, in my view, your analogy doesnt fits here, cos animals dont have any guna.. (seeking other participants opinion here)

Yes, we hear many saying, royal blood is running(blue blood) in them.. Even most of the U.S Presidents trace their ancestors to Irish/scotting royal lineage..But this is not Guna.. This is a worldly trait or skill set, and Im sure it could be inherited..Even there could be a particular gene which may carry these traits... Our bodily systems naturally gets evolved due to ancestory vocation. A tribal kid will have a strong hard skin in their feet to adopt to the forest environment, where as the City born kids will have tender skins..Its evolution..

But it has noting to do with Inheritance of Morals/Guna. Little more specific, skill sets can be quantified by man, but not Gunas/Morals,which God only can measure it..Thats the difference..

One may say this... If parents are good, children would also be good..But its not inherited by birth, rather acquired from the parents, during their day to day life and interactions/advices of Parents. YOu may have noticed many stories in Movies, where the prodigal son' would become a villain/bad boy,where as the son who stayed with the parents will become a goody goddy noble boy...

Secondly, if guna is inherited, then, it defeats the logic of Karma too.. A good person's lineage continue to be good , and that particular lineage only will reach oneness with Brahma, where the one with bad guna, will continue to give birth to bad guna off-springs, and the purpose of relieving of karmic bad deeds and subsequent reincarnation, doesnt validate this point..

 

[suvarchas]

Lets keep aside racist context,and focus on inheritance of Guna.

You shared an interesting analogy,pedigree in animals, to prove inheritance guna..

At the outset, in my view, your analogy doesnt fits here, cos animals dont have any guna.. (seeking other participants opinion here)

Yes, we hear many saying, royal blood is running(blue blood) in them.. Even most of the U.S Presidents trace their ancestors to Irish/scotting royal lineage..But this is not Guna.. This is a worldly trait or skill set, and Im sure it could be inherited..Even there could be a particular gene which may carry these traits... Our bodily systems naturally gets evolved due to ancestory vocation. A tribal kid will have a strong hard skin in their feet to adopt to the forest environment, where as the City born kids will have tender skins..Its evolution..

But it has noting to do with Inheritance of Morals/Guna. Little more specific, skill sets can be quantified by man, but not Gunas/Morals,which God only can measure it..Thats the difference..

One may say this... If parents are good, children would also be good..But its not inherited by birth, rather acquired from the parents, during their day to day life and interactions/advices of Parents. YOu may have noticed many stories in Movies, where the prodigal son' would become a villain/bad boy,where as the son who stayed with the parents will become a goody goddy noble boy...

Secondly, if guna is inherited, then, it defeats the logic of Karma too.. A good person's lineage continue to be good , and that particular lineage only will reach oneness with Brahma, where the one with bad guna, will continue to give birth to bad guna off-springs, and the purpose of relieving of karmic bad deeds and subsequent reincarnation, doesnt validate this point..

Dear Sir,
Since I was in the process of getting the source slokas in support of my view,I have not replied to Happy hindu.Nevertheless you have opened a new train of thought.Gunas are based on our Vasanas due to past which we derive from earlier births.It is where as a human being we are given the option to use our discretion whether to go by dharmic and adharmic way.Here we need to carefully note that as humans we have been given the source to knowledge and discrimination and it is where the mayavilasa of God comes into play.Thats why we are ordained to keep our minds pure by praying for vasana kshayam.So it is basically vasanas which are determining our Gunam and we have discretionary powers with which we add to or reduce our Karma.Thats why surroundings influence us so much that satsangam is needed to create a good vasana.Inheritance has nothing to do with present karma rather it may be a catalyst in a limited way
To Happy hindu,ego is a state of mind and it is also moulded by Guna.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I had started a thread with the same name some time back.

We have been discussing this in various threads. The caste system, whether one becomes a Brahmana by birth alone, etc. have been discussed time and again.

I saw an article referred to in another religious forum. This article has a lot of relevance to our discussions.

http://gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/...-Vaisnava.html

Please read both parts of the article.

Srila Prabhupada was a proponent of Varnashrama. In fact he wanted to call his religion as Varnashrama.

I have always quoted the story of Sathyakama Jabala to show that Brahmins are not by birth alone. Please google and read the story from the Upanishads.

This topic can be discussed till the cows come home, without any fruitful result.

I got the answer to these seeming contradictions today.

1. According to Monier Williams "Starting from the Veda, Hinduism has ended in embracing something from all religions, and in presenting phases suited to all minds."

2. Vishnu Purana describes the influence of foreign invasions and the advent of Kali Yuga.

" The earth will be venerated but for her mineral treasures, The Brahminical thread will constitute a Brahmin ....."

So the present situation has been predicted in the Puranas. This is not what is envisaged in the scriptures. But then this is Kali Yuga.

This is what I had emphasized in the other thread. That Varnashrama has been changed from the original concept.

 

[KRS]

Just to clarify:

1, The animal pedigree pertains to physical charecteristics - not Guna. In humans, while we do not call it 'pedigree', we can also see the same, based on race.

2. In the real world, the Guna by birth theory does not work. I have noticed all three gunas expressing themselves in varying degrees in all races. Brahmins are not an exception, in my observation.

3. Rebirth is because of leftover karma phala. How this is expressed in the next birth is between Easwara and the individual soul. This is why connecting Guna to rebirth status has no foundation in any of our scriptures.

I agree with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji. People who want to believe otherwise will go on believing the Guna by birth theory despite all the real evidence to the contrary.

Regards,
KRS

 

[suvarchas]

I had started a thread with the same name some time back.

We have been discussing this in various threads. The caste system, whether one becomes a Brahmana by birth alone, etc. have been discussed time and again.

I saw an article referred to in another religious forum. This article has a lot of relevance to our discussions.

http://gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/...-Vaisnava.html

Please read both parts of the article.

Srila Prabhupada was a proponent of Varnashrama. In fact he wanted to call his religion as Varnashrama.

I have always quoted the story of Sathyakama Jabala to show that Brahmins are not by birth alone. Please google and read the story from the Upanishads.

This topic can be discussed till the cows come home, without any fruitful result.

I got the answer to these seeming contradictions today.

1. According to Monier Williams "Starting from the Veda, Hinduism has ended in embracing something from all religions, and in presenting phases suited to all minds."

2. Vishnu Purana describes the influence of foreign invasions and the advent of Kali Yuga.

" The earth will be venerated but for her mineral treasures, The Brahminical thread will constitute a Brahmin ....."

So the present situation has been predicted in the Puranas. This is not what is envisaged in the scriptures. But then this is Kali Yuga.

This is what I had emphasized in the other thread. That Varnashrama has been changed from the original concept.

Dear Sir,
As I had mentioned earlier normally Rishis as transcending these rules,Sathyakama Jabala was a rishi.His mother clearly stated that she served so many and unable to recollect who his father was.This was told by Sathyakama and seeing that He was proclaimed to be a Brahmin where we can clearly see that virtuosness was seen as a trait inborn and hence he was deemed to be a Brahmin.

 

[sapr333]

This topic can be discussed till the cows come home, without any fruitful result.

Till the cows come home!!! A wonderful scottish phrase, which I'm coming across after a decade..

One thing for sure, I always enjoyed Nacchinarkinians articulation and right usage of vocab/phrases/idioms , esp in time..

 

[suvarchas]

Just to clarify:

1, The animal pedigree pertains to physical charecteristics - not Guna. In humans, while we do not call it 'pedigree', we can also see the same, based on race.

2. In the real world, the Guna by birth theory does not work. I have noticed all three gunas expressing themselves in varying degrees in all races. Brahmins are not an exception, in my observation.

3. Rebirth is because of leftover karma phala. How this is expressed in the next birth is between Easwara and the individual soul. This is why connecting Guna to rebirth status has no foundation in any of our scriptures.

I agree with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji. People who want to believe otherwise will go on believing the Guna by birth theory despite all the real evidence to the contrary.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sir,
your observations merit a reply.

1.Pedigree in animals also influence the behavioural patterns in animals.

2.All three gunas manifest in everybody,but we classify according to the predominance of one guna over the rest.

3.Rebirth also carries the vasana &guna of previous birth.A classic case is that of Jata bharatha who was born as a deer yet remained aloof true to his spiritual nature.
Thanks
Suvarchas

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sir,
Since I was in the process of getting the source slokas in support of my view,I have not replied to Happy hindu.Nevertheless you have opened a new train of thought.Gunas are based on our Vasanas due to past which we derive from earlier births.It is where as a human being we are given the option to use our discretion whether to go by dharmic and adharmic way.Here we need to carefully note that as humans we have been given the source to knowledge and discrimination and it is where the mayavilasa of God comes into play.Thats why we are ordained to keep our minds pure by praying for vasana kshayam.So it is basically vasanas which are determining our Gunam and we have discretionary powers with which we add to or reduce our Karma.Thats why surroundings influence us so much that satsangam is needed to create a good vasana.Inheritance has nothing to do with present karma rather it may be a catalyst in a limited way
To Happy hindu,ego is a state of mind and it is also moulded by Guna.

Dear Suvarchas,

1) If ego is a state of mind, also molded by guna, then on what "premises" (or basis) do you think is ego as a state of mind or as a quality (guna) is inherited ? Is ego truly inherited ? Or is it a part of karma that gets reflected as behavior? All aside, what is ego? You may wish to explain "what is ego" either on your own or by quoting from scriptures.

2) Will praying for reduction of ego or vasana kshayam help in all cases for all individuals ? If it has helped in all cases for all brahmins, then why did nathuram godse find the need to kill ? (ps - godse was a devout brahmin).

Regards.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sir,
As I had mentioned earlier normally Rishis as transcending these rules,Sathyakama Jabala was a rishi.His mother clearly stated that she served so many and unable to recollect who his father was.This was told by Sathyakama and seeing that He was proclaimed to be a Brahmin where we can clearly see that virtuosness was seen as a trait inborn and hence he was deemed to be a Brahmin.

A Rishi is not born a Rishi. He/She becomes a Rishi. Once they become Rishis their past is forgotten. The saying about Rishi moolam... But whether it is Sathyakama Jabala, Valmiki, or Viswamitra one became a Rishi because of attainment and not by accident of birth.

There were/are thousands of Sathyakama Jabalas in India who did not get (were denied) the opportunity that Sage Gautama provided. Hinduism is the loser.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sir,
As I had mentioned earlier normally Rishis as transcending these rules,Sathyakama Jabala was a rishi.His mother clearly stated that she served so many and unable to recollect who his father was.This was told by Sathyakama and seeing that He was proclaimed to be a Brahmin where we can clearly see that virtuosness was seen as a trait inborn and hence he was deemed to be a Brahmin.

Adi Shankara in His brahmasutra also mentioned the example of Satyakama Jabala. Sri Shankara was of opinion that only a brahmin cud dare state the truth as Satyakama Jabala did about his birth. So, Jabala according to Shankara, showed the guna of being a brahmin.

However, Jabala cud have been the biological son of anybody. But Sri Shankara did not take that into consideration, on the sole basis of the guna showed by Jabala. At the same time, it is also possible that Jabala being a young boy did not know what it meant to have an unknown father, and so gave his answer of fulfilling all duties, in his childish innocence..

Actually (to me) Sri Shankara left the birth part rather unsettled in His brahmasutra. While he quoted the dharmasutras, he also gave an example of Chitraratha, a kapeya king who was initially taken to be a shudra. The fact that Chitraratha felt the need to know brahman was taken into consideration by Sri Shankara as he actually not being shudra but being a former kshatriya (this explanation comes under the title pseudo-shudra in the brahma sutra bhasya translation of swami ghambirananda or rk mutt).

However, though Sri Shankara went on to explain his varna by birth theory, his explanations did not take the fluidity of classes into account [possibly because by 6th century classes were already (getting) rigid and 8th century already had untouchablity in practice. He also left the case of Vidura unsettled, as he did abt the gaps in Jabala's case].

But ppl generally divide Sri Shankara's life into 2 parts - the most intellectual and the most spiritual. His bhasyam on brahmasutra comes in the most intellectual part...there are yogis who consider that his true spitirual journey began after his manisha panchakam (and some say after a meeting with mahavatr babaji as well)...mere intellect (or gunas) does not cause gold coins to pour, and mere intellect does not cause a mortal to stay alive after consuming lead.

All this apart suvarchas, on what basis wud you think that gunas are inherited according to occupation groups (if you do think that way) ? Wud love to hear you explain.

Thanks.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sir,
your observations merit a reply.

1.Pedigree in animals also influence the behavioural patterns in animals.

2.All three gunas manifest in everybody,but we classify according to the predominance of one guna over the rest.

3.Rebirth also carries the vasana &guna of previous birth.A classic case is that of Jata bharatha who was born as a deer yet remained aloof true to his spiritual nature.
Thanks
Suvarchas

Hmm...i think i'd like to keep behavior patterns in animals seperate for now.

Since you say (we) classify based on predominance of one guna over the rest, i have a few things to ask:

1) Can you please clarify that if you consider brahmins to have a set of gunas in predominance over the rest, then how wud you classify japanese buddhist monks ? Are they also brahmin to you or not. If not, why?

[[This also reminds me of a japanese swami with iskcon who i have fond memories of. He was a software engineer, specializing in artificial intelligence, brilliant academic record, highly placed, came to india on a business visit just once in his life; and never went back]].

2) Again, on what basis do you think (if you do think that way) that brahmins have predominance of one guna over the rest ?

Regards.