Religious conversion

[biswa]

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I think Prasad's alter ego is that Kuyavayawhatever. He seems to be posting using a different name to further his partisan Christian agenda.

As for you, Kuvayavasomethin', try going on a pilgrimage to Mecca and come back alive!! Let's see if they allow you entry since you are also 'people of the book' for them..

Please dont make random comments. People here have know Prasad for far longer than you have been in the forum. You are hurting your own credibility.

 

[biswa]

On the contrary any Ram, Raheem or Robert can enter a church, partake in the sabbath services etc.

Quite untrue. Non-Christians are forbidden from taking communion.

Being the ancient religion that it is, you cannot also convert to Judaism.

Only the more "recent" religions, being more insecure are always proselytizing.

 

[biswa]

Ashwin, I will reply to your post, and to Amala's as well in an as even tone as I can. Ok first for Amala. Groupies apply to mainly rockstars. Most forum members have not attained that status yet, even if they have pony tails. "Friends" and "Enemies" are too strong terms to be applied to internet acquaintances, most who have never met in person. It sounds ridiculous if I say I am Indira Gandhi's friend or Adolf Hitler's enemy.

Now to Ashwin's point. For the message to be effective, the messenger has to remove himself/herself from it. Hence the ancient tradition of not harming the messenger even if the message is unpleasant. However there are also examples of the messenger himself being executed when the put his own obnoxiousness or arrogance in front of the message.

I have followed many of Prasad's posts to know that he is not against Christianity or atheism or vegetarianism or any other "ism". There are only a few people in the forum who are "moderates" and he is one of them. I also know that you are not in favor of organized religion, casteism, towing the community line etc. etc. I hope you are not surprised if I say my views are similar to yours, or even if Prasad's views are similar as well.

The desirable mode of engagement IMHO is to debate the ideas without disrespecting the opposing debater.

 

[prasad1]

Ashwin, I will reply to your post, and to Amala's as well in an as even tone as I can. Ok first for Amala. Groupies apply to mainly rockstars. Most forum members have not attained that status yet, even if they have pony tails. "Friends" and "Enemies" are too strong terms to be applied to internet acquaintances, most who have never met in person. It sounds ridiculous if I say I am Indira Gandhi's friend or Adolf Hitler's enemy.

Now to Ashwin's point. For the message to be effective, the messenger has to remove himself/herself from it. Hence the ancient tradition of not harming the messenger even if the message is unpleasant. However there are also examples of the messenger himself being executed when the put his own obnoxiousness or arrogance in front of the message.

I have followed many of Prasad's posts to know that he is not against Christianity or atheism or vegetarianism or any other "ism". There are only a few people in the forum who are "moderates" and he is one of them. I also know that you are not in favor of organized religion, casteism, towing the community line etc. etc. I hope you are not surprised if I say my views are similar to yours, or even if Prasad's views are similar as well.

The desirable mode of engagement IMHO is to debate the ideas without disrespecting the opposing debater.

Very eloquently said.

This is predominantly a brahmin site as the name implies. Mr. Praveen has chosen to open it to all. We have a wonderful mix of people from all walks of life. Some are from different parts of India, some are from other parts of the world. We share and some time disagree on some ideas. The discussions are sometimes heated.
But one should not provoke the majority of members in this site by constantly barraging them with BB. You can criticize a particular idea, or practice, but if you constantly bash the born-brahmins for their birth and ancestry, there is going to be some strong reaction.

Even the moderator had to caution people not to provoke, but repeated offense and deliberate taunting of the moderator, and other members can not be called freedom of speech. It has consequences.

 

[prasad1]

As for you, Kuvayavasomethin', try going on a pilgrimage to Mecca and come back alive!! Let's see if they allow you entry since you are also 'people of the book' for them..

You repeated my post#94 in your 2nd sentence, so obviously you failed to read the earlier posts in this thread. LOL

 

[biswa]

In response to Ms. K, it is definitely a valid question. Somebody's conversion is not any other individual's business, but it is definitely the communities business. Why do the Jews of America support Israel politically, why do the Wahabis of Saudi Arabia fund jihad all over the world, and why do the Hindus of India feel elated if they discover some old relics of Hindu culture in Bali? It is a matter of validation of one's beliefs.

Conversely, if some people show disdain for a religion either by conversion or by writing an op-ed piece in a newspaper, it should offer the members of a society the opportunity for introspection. Forget religion, if converted Indians (aka NRIs) complain about corruption or the "rape culture" back home, all Indians (RI or NRI) should think hard about what could be done to improve the situation.

Conversion from Hinduism (or any other religion for that matter) is a symptom. It is always interesting to speculate about the actual diagnosis.

 

[Vaagmi]

Sir,
You might be a devout Iyangar, that is your business. You also might consider it sacrilegious that someone gave "your" sacred symbol to his Christian SIL.
But you are maligning some one else that sil you do not even know her, as licentious. What authority you have for such a comment? Do you know her personal life? It is utterly unbecoming of you to insult people who you do not know personally. Even if you think you know, do you really know.
Even Sita was vilified by a Dhobi.

In TB community we create a turmeric mound and do puja through that idol as God, then we wash it down to earth. Our religion is all symbolism if you really understand the meaning behind it.

Prasad ji,

I never believed that you would jump to conclusions without thinking or that you will twist and hammer statements to draw that extra obnoxious meaning out of it. You have unfortunately done exactly that.

1. SIL in my post means Son in law. I never knew a son in law can be a lady!!LOL.

2. Licentious in my limited vocabulary-that of a strict SV-includes eating anything that flies, walks,creeps or swims(includes that laid by anything that walks). It includes drinking a BM not withstanding the Tomato juice component in it or a few pegs (not chota peg) of Bacardi etc., I had these in mind when I wrote that piece. I did not have any lady in my mind for SIL can never be a lady. And by the way why should you selectively interpret it to mean illicit relations between men and women-Sita's example indicates this line of thinking in your mind? Do not look for ghost where even shadows do not exist. That is phobia and needs cure.

3. You perhaps do not know the sanctity attached to a salagramam in SV homes. They are handed down from generation to generation. I do Aradhana to a set of salagramams which are as old as 5 generations. I have salagramams the antiquity of which I do not even know. So indiscretions such as eating an egg omlette first thing in the morning and retiring to bed in the night nursing a drink are all licentiousness to me if one has salagramams to do puja to at home. If they are there in a Christian he can never become an iyengar SIL. A christian SIL calling the Salagramam anaconda saliva exhibits his ignorance as well stupidity simultaneously.

4. I do not quite understand what you want to say by the turmeric vinayaka.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Prasad ji,

I never believed that you would jump to conclusions without thinking or that you will twist and hammer statements to draw that extra obnoxious meaning out of it. You have unfortunately done exactly that.

1. SIL in my post means Son in law. I never knew a son in law can be a lady!!LOL.

2. Licentious in my limited vocabulary-that of a strict SV-includes eating anything that flies, walks,creeps or swims(includes that laid by anything that walks). It includes drinking a BM not withstanding the Tomato juice component in it or a few pegs (not chota peg) of Bacardi etc., I had these in mind when I wrote that piece. I did not have any lady in my mind for SIL can never be a lady. And by the way why should you selectively interpret it to mean illicit relations between men and women-Sita's example indicates this line of thinking in your mind? Do not look for ghost where even shadows do not exist. That is phobia and needs cure.

3. You perhaps do not know the sanctity attached to a salagramam in SV homes. They are handed down from generation to generation. I do Aradhana to a set of salagramams which are as old as 5 generations. I have salagramams the antiquity of which I do not even know. So indiscretions such as eating an egg omlette first thing in the morning and retiring to bed in the night nursing a drink are all licentiousness to me if one has salagramams to do puja to at home. If they are there in a Christian he can never become an iyengar SIL. A christian SIL calling the Salagramam anaconda saliva exhibits his ignorance as well stupidity simultaneously.

4. I do not quite understand what you want to say by the turmeric vinayaka.

Lots of allopathic and ayurvedic meds have lots and lots of alcohol. If you take some med containing say 50% alcohol v/v, you shouldn't go near the salagrama acc. your own opinion.

 

[Vaagmi]

Lots of allopathic and ayurvedic meds have lots and lots of alcohol. If you take some med containing say 50% alcohol v/v, you shouldn't go near the salagrama acc. your own opinion.

Yes, not in my opinion (that does not matter) but as per the needs of dharma.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Yes, not in my opinion (that does not matter) but as per the needs of dharma.

So as per the needs of dharma, one should shun any medicine containing alcohol even if it saves lives. We should also shun hand sanitizers, rubbing alcohol for wounds, baby wet wipes, after shave, perfumes and so on.

I once asked an Arab merchant in the souq in Doha, you're selling perfumes containing alcohol, while this Hyderabad colleague of mine shuns those perfumes for the very same reason. His reply was rather profound- tell your colleague he's not going to drink the perfumes.

Where do we draw the line between religion and cold logic?

 

[krish44]

So as per the needs of dharma, one should shun any medicine containing alcohol even if it saves lives. We should also shun hand sanitizers, rubbing alcohol for wounds, baby wet wipes, after shave, perfumes and so on.

I once asked an Arab merchant in the souq in Doha, you're selling perfumes containing alcohol, while this Hyderabad colleague of mine shuns those perfumes for the very same reason. His reply was rather profound- tell your colleague he's not going to drink the perfumes.

Where do we draw the line between religion and cold logic?

IMHO ash ji If you have to decide between religion and cold logic ,the latter should win.I was shown one salagramam in one of my relations home and I was also warned about the need for maintaining a puritanical lifestyle in case of keeping it home. I do not know how dharma comes into it. I thought it was basically weird to insist on a lifestyle to keep an item sacred to some and you applying cold logic to such an act

 

[ashwin_ash]

IMHO ash ji If you have to decide between religion and cold logic ,the latter should win.I was shown one salagramam in one of my relations home and I was also warned about the need for maintaining a puritanical lifestyle in case of keeping it home. I do not know how dharma comes into it. I thought it was basically weird to insist on a lifestyle to keep an item sacred to some and you applying cold logic to such an act

Thanks for trying to explain, Krish. I bought a 'Siva salagrama' and a 'spatika Sivalinga' from the Rameswaram temple. And recently, I fell victim to a bout of stomach illness and opted for ayurveda instead of the usual endoscopies etc with their accompanying risks. All the ayurvedic meds had some or large quantities of alcohol.

So basically, have I violated the tenets of the religion? Or did I save my life by taking those meds and upheld my own dharma? I'm sure you agree with me that you need to be alive to worship a God or deity!! IMHO, a pragmatic approach will always serve us well.

 

[Vaagmi]

Ash and Krish,

Your questions are all at that " show me the God if he is there". kind of level. Please think about it and you will understand ஆனைக்கு அர்ரம் does not give the derivative குதிரைக்கு குர்ரம். I have nothing more to say.

 

[sarang]

1. Daily aradana is expected of all including those other than brahmins. All religious households do puja, arti and offering of food.
2. Saligrama puja is relatively easier than vigraha puja.
3. Saligramam is very sacred to vaishnavites and passed on to children for continuity. Son in laws too are given at the time of marriage.
4. Many maharashtrians too pass on ganesh vigraha to children to maintain continuity of puja with the same vigraha.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Ash and Krish,

Your questions are all at that " show me the God if he is there". kind of level. Please think about it and you will understand ஆனைக்கு அர்ரம் does not give the derivative குதிரைக்கு குர்ரம். I have nothing more to say.

Dear Vaagmi,

I kindly request you to watch the movie "Moodar Koodam" when you have time for it. Excellent dark comedy.

 

[prasad1]

Prasad ji,

I never believed that you would jump to conclusions without thinking or that you will twist and hammer statements to draw that extra obnoxious meaning out of it. You have unfortunately done exactly that.

1. SIL in my post means Son in law. I never knew a son in law can be a lady!!LOL.

2. Licentious in my limited vocabulary-that of a strict SV-includes eating anything that flies, walks,creeps or swims(includes that laid by anything that walks). It includes drinking a BM not withstanding the Tomato juice component in it or a few pegs (not chota peg) of Bacardi etc., I had these in mind when I wrote that piece. I did not have any lady in my mind for SIL can never be a lady. And by the way why should you selectively interpret it to mean illicit relations between men and women-Sita's example indicates this line of thinking in your mind? Do not look for ghost where even shadows do not exist. That is phobia and needs cure.

3. You perhaps do not know the sanctity attached to a salagramam in SV homes. They are handed down from generation to generation. I do Aradhana to a set of salagramams which are as old as 5 generations. I have salagramams the antiquity of which I do not even know. So indiscretions such as eating an egg omlette first thing in the morning and retiring to bed in the night nursing a drink are all licentiousness to me if one has salagramams to do puja to at home. If they are there in a Christian he can never become an iyengar SIL. A christian SIL calling the Salagramam anaconda saliva exhibits his ignorance as well stupidity simultaneously.

4. I do not quite understand what you want to say by the turmeric vinayaka.

SIL - Can also mean Sister-in-law.
So I might have got the wrong SIL.
If that is the case I apologize.
You did not make it clear what SIL you had in your mind.
Similarly you did not mention what acts you considered as Licentious. When you do say explicitly, the meaning you wish to convey people will come to their own conclusions. Writing is different than verbal face to face communication.
But any way I will ask for your explanation before posting my comment.

 

[prasad1]

Thanks for trying to explain, Krish. I bought a 'Siva salagrama' and a 'spatika Sivalinga' from the Rameswaram temple. And recently, I fell victim to a bout of stomach illness and opted for ayurveda instead of the usual endoscopies etc with their accompanying risks. All the ayurvedic meds had some or large quantities of alcohol.

So basically, have I violated the tenets of the religion? Or did I save my life by taking those meds and upheld my own dharma? I'm sure you agree with me that you need to be alive to worship a God or deity!! IMHO, a pragmatic approach will always serve us well.

I agree with this logic. Self preservation is paramount. What is needed for self preservation is debatable, and is a slippery slope. Pragmatic approach is needed and will depend on the individual.

 

[prasad1]

1. Daily aradana is expected of all including those other than brahmins. All religious households do puja, arti and offering of food.
2. Saligrama puja is relatively easier than vigraha puja.
3. Saligramam is very sacred to vaishnavites and passed on to children for continuity. Son in laws too are given at the time of marriage.
4. Many maharashtrians too pass on ganesh vigraha to children to maintain continuity of puja with the same vigraha.

Sarangji,
Please continue, can puja be done by a NB, brahmin-who eats eggs, a converted hindu, women etc.
May be we need a separate thread for that.

 

[sarang]

Reread point no. 1. For proof see any tamil tv serial. Puja is for all and by all.

Sarangji,
Please continue, can puja be done by a NB, brahmin-who eats eggs, a converted hindu, women etc.
May be we need a separate thread for that.

 

[BostonSankara]

...
p.s.
Yes, there is no "Hindu" doctrine to go out and convert others. However, historically, conversions have taken place all the time. We read about Kings converting from Jainism to Saivam or Vaishnvam, etc. There is even a relatively recent example of proselytization by a Hindu -- Prabhupada travelled from Calcutta to USA with the express purpose of spreading his brand of Vaishnavam to Christians and his disciples are still at it, trying to convert people to ISKCON.

I am an American male who converted to Saivam and received Samaya Diksha into an Orthodox lineage of Sivacarya priests. Albeit rare, it happens!

Om Namah Sivaya!

-
Siddheshvara

 

[Raji Ram]

Can't believe this! I wanted to write about Boston Sankara after seeing one of Prasad Sir's questions.

And here is Sankara answering himself!

 

[prasad1]

I am an American male who converted to Saivam and received Samaya Diksha into an Orthodox lineage of Sivacarya priests. Albeit rare, it happens!

Om Namah Sivaya!

-
Siddheshvara

Congratulations on the success of your goal. Hope it helps in your ultimate quest.

 

[BostonSankara]

Namaste Smt. Raji Ram! Happy New Year! :-D

 

[Vaagmi]

SIL - Can also mean Sister-in-law.
So I might have got the wrong SIL.
If that is the case I apologize.
You did not make it clear what SIL you had in your mind.
Similarly you did not mention what acts you considered as Licentious. When you do say explicitly, the meaning you wish to convey people will come to their own conclusions. Writing is different than verbal face to face communication.
But any way I will ask for your explanation before posting my comment.

Dear prasad,

The context was about an Iyengar giving a salagramam to his christian SIL who married his daughter and that SIL passing anaconda comments about the Salagramam. There was no scope for any such misunderstanding. Now that it is clear to you I hope you have no problem understanding what I said.

 

[indianassault]

Lots of allopathic and ayurvedic meds have lots and lots of alcohol. If you take some med containing say 50% alcohol v/v, you shouldn't go near the salagrama acc. your own opinion.

Vitta andha kalathila Agasthiyare cutting la pepper kalandhu adichar nu solluva polarku

But agree with this point.