nonbelieing horoscope

[prasad1]

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Dear Mr.Prasad1,

I do not recall any post where I have said that I have gone to an astrologer for
pariharam. I believe that the effect of karma has to be gone through and only
in this way , the effect of karmas will be reduced or squared off. Please point
out the post where I have said that pariharam will ward off the karma-effect.
I will withdraw it.

Sir N. R. Rangnathan ji,
The fist paragraph was in response to your post.
The second

If you really believe in Karma theory, and have full faith in Ultimate reality, you will not get distracted by all this mumbo-jumbo. You can not have your cake and eat it too.
If you truly believe in Karma theory and then believe in pariharams you are negating one faith with the other as they are diametrically opposite.

Was my opinion. It was not directed at you sir.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Thank you Mr.Prasad1

 

[sarang]

All past karmas and yet to do future karmas can be wiped away; andal says so in thiruppavai. Krishna confirms that in gita.

When a person committing a sin sincerely acknowledges it and is punished by the king, he does not accumulate karma.

For a normal practising hindu, jyotisha gives indications and tendencies and advises him to prepare to correct and overcome the perceived deficiencies. One can belong to any of these three groups - everything is preordained, nothing can be done or nothing is preordained, I achieve everything by my effort only or the belief that my efforts influence or modify preordained outcome.

Coming to a conclusion on jyotisha from the predictions and behaviour of josyars is analogous to linking medical discipline with doctors' practice.

Twenty years ago, a doctor was considered useless if he did not give 'injection' to the patient; today it is 'diagnostic tests'. If the doctor does not prescribe tests and scans to generate revenue for the hospital, he will be considered below average physician.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear Mr.Sarang,

You said it. The problem is not with astrology, but with the astrologers.

I do not now how many friends have read my post no. 75.

I will now narrate another incident.

As soon as a child was born, the father of the child came to a namboodri astrologer. He just asked the man the time, date and place of birth. After a
minute he told him to come after forty-five days and he will cast the new-born's
horoscope.

After he left, he friend who was there asked him as to why he asked the man
to come after 45 days. The namboodri replied in malayalam - horoscope for
the child who will die shortly ?. Sure, the child passed away after 20 days.

Therefore, there are good astrologers, but quacks also are there.

 

[sarang]

I think all our traditional practices based on scriptures have a spiritual, anushtanam (religious) and loukika (only physical part) parts. Perhaps a judicious blend of all the three will give bigger benefits in disciplines like jyotish and ayurveda.

Even as recent as 50 years ago, hata yoga was held in low esteem - when kumarasamy wrote yogasana rahasyam in kalki (linking treatment for specific ailments with asanas), there were many bad comments (twisting the body will harm the organs) and nothing good will come out of 'mookai pidichinda'.

Some english educated find jyotihs as irrational; but some, who have gone gone through the same english education route have faith and respect for the traditional knowledge.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Some call it as pseudo science. But generally, according to a survey
sometime back, it was revealed that 'Pisces" people often approach
the astrologers, while the lowest side is Capricorn. But there are people
who watch daily horoscopes and latest updates, etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Balasubramanian,
I agree with with you. I am not a believer in Astrology, but it is fun thing. I have no problem in reading any prediction, and see how wrong they are. I have read number of books in palmistry too.
My father-in-law and my mother were supposed to be "very good" at it.

Mr. Ramachadran's lament seems farfetched.

Is non believing horoscope leads to non believer of God? Then how these people will conduct marriage In revolution mode? No Prohit, No fire etc?

I believe in God, karmas etc. I do not see a conflict there.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

It is a human tendency to try to know the unknown. Except a handful of people nobody sits 24x7x366xX to know the unknown. You can take it as a pastime too. When everything happens according to some cycle, action and reaction, we will accept the ordinary happenings but not the extra-ordinary happenings. I do not think there is not much of a difference between searching god and knowing what the stars foretell. The very word 'search' tells you to progress. Science goes after the particle, astrologer after the stars, and philosophers after the The Truth - God.
When all of them finally succeed, maybe we would be watching them with mischievous smile!

 

[prasad1]

astrologer after the stars, and philosophers after the The Truth - God.

That should read Astronomer after stars.
Astrologer are after some mythical picture (drawn more than 2000 years ago) on a two dimensional plane of a 4 dimensional objects. The stars are in a 3 dimensional plane with time as fourth dimension.

Astronomers have proved that there is absolutely no relevance to zodiac signs. Every observation by astrologers of astronomy is wrong. For instance there is no retrograde movement of any planet. It may appear so due to relative speed of other planets from earth. The earth has shifted in the last 2000 years and it should have 13 Zodiac sign now instead of 12.

New Zodiac Sign Dates: Ophiuchus The 13th Sign?

Rahu and Ketu are mythical planets.

 

[balakrishnant]

astrology is definitely a guiding factor and cannot be ignored

 

[Iyyarooraan]

That should read Astronomer after stars.
Astrologer are after some mythical picture (drawn more than 2000 years ago) on a two dimensional plane of a 4 dimensional objects. The stars are in a 3 dimensional plane with time as fourth dimension.

Astronomers have proved that there is absolutely no relevance to zodiac signs. Every observation by astrologers of astronomy is wrong. For instance there is no retrograde movement of any planet. It may appear so due to relative speed of other planets from earth. The earth has shifted in the last 2000 years and it should have 13 Zodiac sign now instead of 12.

New Zodiac Sign Dates: Ophiuchus The 13th Sign?

Rahu and Ketu are mythical planets.

I am sorry I left it yesterday. Astronomers are sighting solid or physical objects in space; astrologers talk of unsighted effects the stars can cause.

 

[B Suresh Kumar]

I have read all the posts in this forum during the last nine days. Some vehemently defending the horoscopes and some totally against and some going to the extent of joining ashrams.
Everyone has his/her own belief systems. It is better we dont interfere in their belief system and put our thoughts in it.
I would like to present here my personal case.
My wife's star is Pooram and My star is Ayiliyam. As per astrology the stars will not match but we are happily married for 27 years. The birth star is not going to change by the place of birth or longitude of any place or in a few minutes delay in mentioning the time to the astrologer who is going to cast the horoscope.
I am believer in God but not a puritan. I request believers in horoscope to explain how this arranged marriage could have taken place. I and my wife did not know each other before marriage

 

[srinath_P]

Horoscope Does not matter -- ENDOGAMY is the driving force.

 

[renuka]

Even though I do not believe 100% in astrology but I like just hearing out what anyone says.

A close friend of mine who is actually married but having an extra marital affair(only close friends know) recently asked me to get his horoscope checked for him from an astrologer I know quite well..to my surprise the astrologer mentioned to me that "this person's horoscope shows that he will have an extra marital affair at the age of 40"

I really wonder how did that astrologer know this?

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Astrology, no doubt is a guiding factor and it also reveals certain true things
as Dr Renuka Madam has submitted it. But then, one should not run to
the Astrologer, now and then to know the day to day events. The planet
movements certainly make its effect on everyone and no one can neglect
that. To my experience, Astrologers are able to predict the past things without
any difficulty, while on the future things, they would be able to mention only
with ifs and buts. If they are able to say exactly on the future happenings,
then the Supreme Power loses its sanctity.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[renuka]

Astrology, no doubt is a guiding factor and it also reveals certain true things
as Dr Renuka Madam has submitted it. But then, one should not run to
the Astrologer, now and then to know the day to day events. The planet
movements have certainly make its effect on everyone and no one can neglect
that. To my experience, Astrologers are able to predict the past things without
any difficulty, while on the future things, they would be able to mention only
with ifs and buts. If they are able to say exactly on the future happenings,
then the Supreme Power loses its sanctity.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Dear sir,

When I was young only some 12 or less..one astrologer predicted that I will be a doctor and he also predicted the years I will purchase new cars.
I didn't really believe about the car purchase part..but when I looked back at what he wrote..so far all the years I have been changing cars have been matching with what he wrote in some 1982.

Many things he said for me turned out right.
He also wrote that I will open my own clinic at a certain age..and that too became true.
He also said that at the age of mid thirties there will be a change of interest in life and will be more inclined to arts,religion and language.

And that turned out true cos I started studying Sanskrit and religion in detail around mid thirties too.

He also wrote lots of things which are actually coming true.
So far everything he wrote has turned out to be true.

So sometimes I guess who has the power to know the future he might be able to write more accurate.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Dear sir,

When I was young only some 12 or less..one astrologer predicted that I will be a doctor and he also predicted the years I will purchase new cars.
I didn't really believe about the car purchase part..but when I looked back at what he wrote..so far all the years I have been changing cars have been matching with what he wrote in some 1982.

Many things he said for me turned out right.
He also wrote that I will open my own clinic at a certain age..and that too became true.
He also said that at the age of mid thirties there will be a change of interest in life and will be more inclined to arts,religion and language.

And that turned out true cos I started studying Sanskrit and religion in detail around mid thirties too.

He also wrote lots of things which are actually coming true.
So far everything he wrote has turned out to be true.

So sometimes I guess who has the power to know the future he might be able to write more accurate.

May be one in thousand or ten thousand. Good luck Madam. Thanks for the input.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Astrology is for the matured mind which could attempt to perfect one's action. Yet it may not help. Has there been anybody who has done anything rashly without thinking for a moment. To think astrology will solve all your problems is wrong. It is only for guidance to those who are in dilemma; have two minds or have confused minds. Many predictions have come true and equal numbers have gone wrong. Generally for a simple mind without over-shooting ambitions and logical thinking, astrology helps. I hasten to add that one can live without astrology, progress and succeed. It is one's choice and should be happy with that. If one judges the subject by the weekly/periodical predictions, it would be wrong. These days they generally do not give predictions. The give advice suitably. Everything has a time and it requires an analytical mind to judge events. If you go into the subject you will find the myriad of chances or choices. Which one will fructify? Only a person wiith "vaak siddhi" will be near about right. Unfortunately people will believe many contradictions in science but it is total chagrin if it is astrology. Questions will be always there in life. You believe in God. How? There are thousands who do not believe in god. It is a choice to humour your life. Take it or leave it.

 

[K Bhaskaran]

Horoscopes were verified originally in earlier times when the boy and the girl were very young at the time of marriage and parents on both sides took responsibility for the long and happy married life of their children. If we are abiding the law banning child marriages why are we objecting to other deviations like non believing of horoscopes. Whwn the prospective couple want to have a major say about choosing their partner verifying horoscopes will be a very difficult exercise and in many cases futile also. Except praying to God sincerely for the welfare of the children observance of other practices for choosing life parners for the children is practically impossible.

By the way, in olden days Jyotishas were observing strict discipline as per jyotisha saastram and were impartial in giving their advice. If most of the self-proclaimed jyotishas of today comment on horoscopes with half-baked (sorry,quarter-baked or even less) knowledge and based on expediency better we dispense with the practice of relying on such advice. It does not mean that gradually it will lead to dropping of other rituals and practices which have sound bases.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Horoscopes were verified originally in earlier times when the boy and the girl were very young at the time of marriage and parents on both sides took responsibility for the long and happy married life of their children. If we are abiding the law banning child marriages why are we objecting to other deviations like non believing of horoscopes. Whwn the prospective couple want to have a major say about choosing their partner verifying horoscopes will be a very difficult exercise and in many cases futile also. Except praying to God sincerely for the welfare of the children observance of other practices for choosing life parners for the children is practically impossible.

By the way, in olden days Jyotishas were observing strict discipline as per jyotisha saastram and were impartial in giving their advice. If most of the self-proclaimed jyotishas of today comment on horoscopes with half-baked (sorry,quarter-baked or even less) knowledge and based on expediency better we dispense with the practice of relying on such advice. It does not mean that gradually it will lead to dropping of other rituals and practices which have sound bases.

One cannot rule out the existence of Good Jyotishas even today. But, one may have
to approach the correct person. There are some Jyotishas who predict the actual things
and some even forecast the future. But then it depends on the movement of the Stars
and based on the calculation that is being worked out, while studying the horos.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[K Bhaskaran]

I do not say all jyotishas are incompetent. Problem arises in finding the correct person. Who can certify a jyotisha's genuineness and competence? Even if I find one are our young ones prepared to go by the jyotisha's opinion while selecting their life partner when it does not suit their other considerarions like girl's/boy's looks,do not go along with economic factors, place of settlement etc.? Let us be practical.

 

[prasad1]

One cannot rule out the existence of Good Jyotishas even today. But, one may have
to approach the correct person. There are some Jyotishas who predict the actual things
and some even forecast the future. But then it depends on the movement of the Stars
and based on the calculation that is being worked out, while studying the horos.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

I position on astrology #28.
Astrologers have built in defense for their failures. So all of them are failures in general. They may be right sometimes.

 

[Ramacchandran]

Yesterday, I along with my friends sat and viewed the horoscopes that mentioned about the "Non believing Horoscopes". In that we found all the horoscopes were preferred by the girls side, that too they mentioned Upper Middle Class, affluent/ Very Very rich. These horoscopes born on Solar Eclipse day, and most of the girls had Rahu/ Kethu in lagna, Mars in seventh/ eighth place from lagna., a horrible horoscope that itself showed that the first husband will die (According to the Astrologer) with in 6 months from the date of marriage. My friend shared an information at that time, during 1970 their family had a girl like this, she was taken to Rameswaram, married with the God, spent a night in a room all alone, and then went to Dhanushkodi, stayed in Rameswaram for 5 days, some rituals were done, and on 9th day, they cut the sacred mangalya Suthra and returned. After that she was married with a man with whom she lives even to day. (Will any one tell What is that Praya Chiththa?) But to day if the same kind of horoscope is verified will the horoscope quote that the lady/ girl already married? It is on those days when no internet available, they are not Tam Tamed. But to day since the horoscopes are available in the net how they manage?

Will any boy or his family take risk on this kind of horoscope and offer their hands?

How long we can satisfy a planet to keep the action away?
Will it continue for ever?
If the girls side prefers a rich man, there are chances to think that the brides family arranging for the marriage knowingly that the boy will die soon, so that they can get the share of his wealth and again remarry?

These are the few doubts that ran in my mind.

Request elders/ Seniors to clarify this.

 

[K Bhaskaran]

Matching of horoscopes of boy and girl is only a social practice and does not appear to be manadatory as per Sastras. Non observance of this practice should not be treated at par with other Hindu rituals mentioned in Veda and Dharma Sastras. Solemnising a Hindu marriage does not need horoscope matching.

 

[prasad1]

Matching of horoscopes of boy and girl is only a social practice and does not appear to be manadatory as per Sastras. Non observance of this practice should not be treated at par with other Hindu rituals mentioned in Veda and Dharma Sastras. Solemnising a Hindu marriage does not need horoscope matching.

Finally a voice of reason.