nonbelieing horoscope

[suraju06]

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Dear Mr. Manohar,

Dear Mr.Suraju, i live mylapore and i can show you lot of vaishnava come inside the Velleeswarar temple go across to the navagraha enclosure take three or four rounds and walk off... this happens daily. No jokes!!

I am aware of this. But when some one asked Kamalahasan what use poonool is of he replied it is useful to scratch one's inaccessible back. There are many vaishnavs who do not know why they are vaishnavs and what is the significance of being a vaishnav. They think it is better on the safer side and pray to Navagrahas to ward of any evil they may do. It is fear of the unknown.

The velleeswarar temple south of Kapali temple is just one example. There are navagrahas installed in some of the Vishnu temples also by enthusiastic bhaktas.

It is like the cat brought up by the Sanyasi.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Anand Manohar,

The Nava Tirupathi Temples maintained by the TVS Group are all Perumal Temples with each one dedicated as a Kshetram to one of the Nava Grahas!

Dedicated may not be the correct word. I come from that area and I know what it is. Each Tirupati is "dedicated" to The presiding deity only. The navagrahas come into the picture because it is believed that the dosham or the ill effect due to a particular navagraha will be dispelled by the presiding deity if one visits the temple. Thus it is nava Tirupati and it rhymes well with navagrahas well. It is like the old ladies in the family saying ஆண் மூலம் அரசாளும் பெண் மூலம் நிர்மூலம், ஆயில்யத்து மாமியார் அதிர் சந்தியிலே, பூராடம் நூலாடாது - all pure unadulterated nonsense which have only the rhyming value of a dubious nature. Vaishnavites who visit nava tirupati temples visit there to have darshan of the presiding deity there and if the கொசுறு of getting the goodwill of a navagraha also comes along it is well come to them. That s all.

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Anand Manohar ji, .

If astrology is taken as a science

Your basic assumption is wrong.
So if I start with the premise that Earth is flat, then if you walk to the edge, you will fall out of earth. The second part being true is dependent on the first.

Astronomy is a science, Astrology is belief at best.




Astronomy and astrology were the same thing before the modern era, because predictive and divinatory knowledge was one of the motivating factors for astronomical observation. Astronomy is simply the observation and measurement of celestial bodies, while astrology is an attempt to find some sort of "meaning" or "influence" in the planetary positions. The interesting thing is that astrology gave birth to astronomy. Oddly enough, considering that astrology has to do with planetary movements, astrologers no longer look at the sky, and haven't for hundreds of years.


Modern astronomers find it difficult to connect with astrology because the data used by astrologers bears no relation to what is actually seen in the sky. Astrologers have ignored the slow "wobble" of the earth on it's axis, called the precession of the equinoxes, even though Hipparchus discovered it as long ago as 100 BC. It means that the position of the ecliptic in the sky has shifted quite a bit in the last two thousand years, so that the zodiac is not the same as it was in the year 0.


Also, astrologers consider retrograde motion to be an important influence on their lives. In astrology, this backward movement was traditionally thought to be unlucky or inauspicious, as it went against the 'natural' order of movement. The problem is, retrograde motion is purely an optical illusion, caused by the line of sight when looking at an outer planet that is being overtaken by a faster-moving, inner planet. (There are many animated, graphic demonstrations of this on the internet). Astronomers (and many other people) have trouble believing that any part of their lives can be influenced by an optical illusion.

http://home.fuse.net/astronomy/opinion.html

 

[guruvayurappan]

I would like to bring up a point here..you see in our Puranas most marriages were without horoscope match.
Kings married which ever woman they fancied.

Even Brahmins married princesses when a King offered his daughter in marriage.

Rama married Sita based solely on the fact that He strung and broke the bow in Janaka's court.
Arjuna won Draupadi also based on skill of archery.

I don't think that Arjuna saw horoscope before he married Ulupi.
It was love at first sight and so with Subhadra.


Kusha married Kumudvati a Naga Princess when her brother Kumuda offered her hand in marriage to Kusha.

Princesses had Svayamvaram where they would chose the Prince/King they liked.
All Princes and Kings would be invited.

I did not see anywhere that a King or Prince had to have his horoscope matched before he was invited to a Syavamvara.
It was always considered an insult to a King if he was not invited for a Svayamvaram.
That means that horoscope match was NOT mandatory.

In fact a Kshatriya takes pride if he kidnaps a princess and marries her.
Does anyone check horoscope before kidnapping someone?

I guess horoscope matches were not really in vogue in ancient times.

So what was the reason ancients didn't really consider horoscopes in marriage?
The Royals had Brahmins for advisors so why didn't any Brahmin at that time advise horoscope match before any marriage?

dear renuka ji !
we compare the olden days when it is convenient to us and all other things if it is not according to our thinking ,we simply ignore it .
when the boys & girls are in love ,when both of their heartunited ,if they are from known relative the horoscope match was not insisted .
in present day setup,we are seeking alliance from unknown circle &teritory in which we are unable to asess the character of the boy /girl even through third person ,detective agencies etc. they are verifying the educational qualifiction.place of job & salary etc. and still could not judge and worried about their future. in a confused stage ,they are deciding based on horoscope.it is like asking degree cerficate for watchman post,MCA for ordinary clerkpost etc.horoscope is one item in deciding match apart from qualifiction ,salary,family background etc.no body is deciding the based on horoscope alone
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

Once the famous astrologer shelvi (asthana astrologer of vijay tv) told in a public show called neeya naana that Horoscope is true and only the reader who predicts are not correct in their predictions. One example of accurate prediction of horoscope we can site is Kochenganar. It was predicted that if the mother of Kochenganar give birth after one day that boy will rule the state and the mother tied herself from the roof upside down to prolong the birth of the child. Since the blood has gone in lot to the child in the womb the eyes of the baby became red and henc he was named as kochenganar.

I had good experience of prediction and If your josyar is good and if you do proper parigaram you can mitigate the ill effects of the planets.

dear ramanathan !
in all professions the triangle theory hold good .
the doctor , the patient & medicine
the the horoscope(how it is written -the time birth is vital which is not 100% correct) , the jathagan and the jothidar

if the basic horoscope itself is not 100 % correct ,how can we blame the jyothidar for wrong prediction.the horoscope may be correct ,but interpretations made with dif ,sastra the bala will vary.
horoscope ,the jyosiar are good.but the person is not beliving in the prediction if it is not according to his wish .
guruvayurappan

 

[prasad1]

Astrology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Astrology is a pseudoscience, and as such is not taken seriously by the academic or scientific communities. Some scientific testing of astrology has been conducted, and no evidence has been found to support either the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological tradition. Furthermore, there is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth that does not contradict well understood, basic aspects of biology and physics."

 

[renuka]

dear renuka ji !
we compare the olden days when it is convenient to us and all other things if it is not according to our thinking ,we simply ignore it .

Dear sir,

There is a saying in Malay that goes "take what is clear and discard what is turbid"

So you see we should choose what suits us with regards to time,place and person.

Nowadays I see many grandparents unhappy that their grandchildren are NOT named after them.

But here again our ancients hardly practiced this.

Take the Raghu Dysnasty itself...no one was named after their grandfather.

Dileepa--Raghu--Aja--Dashartha---Rama--Luv/Kush-- and so on..


So you see when we want to escape on technical grounds..just quote our Puranas..there will always be good escape grounds!!LOL

 

[tbs]

Dear sir,

There is a saying in Malay that goes "take what is clear and discard what is turbid"

So you see we should choose what suits us with regards to time,place and person.

Nowadays I see many grandparents unhappy that their grandchildren are NOT named after them.

But here again our ancients hardly practiced this.

Take the Raghu Dysnasty itself...no one was named after their grandfather.

Dileepa--Raghu--Aja--Dashartha---Rama--Luv/Kush-- and so on..


So you see when we want to escape on technical grounds..just quote our Puranas..there will always be good escape grounds!!LOL

hi renu
i think u know very well abt RAGHUVAMSAM ...the mahakavya of kalidasa....lol

 

[renuka]

hi renu
i think u know very well abt RAGHUVAMSAM ...the mahakavya of kalidasa....lol

I have no choice but to know it well.My exam next month is going to have questions from Raghuvamsam.

 

[renuka]

I wish these high society people should avoid visiting temples too. (So that they need not spend money) Let them start a group "Abrahjaman" meaning born from cloud.

Dear sir,

What ever happened to Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu?

From your post I feel as if you are concerned about decline of cultural practices that might affect the livelihood of certain quarters of the society.

That way we should start worrying about every economic sector of society.

I also do not know why we need to FEAR ghost and Pitrs.
Yes ghost can be scary but we do not need to live in constant fear of anything.


Fear is the biggest enemy of man.

Culture and tradition should instill bravery in us and not make us fearful of everything seen and unseen.

Sometimes I am starting to wonder if we Hindus are more concerned about rituals than anything else.

Rituals do not monopolize Dharma 100%.
Rituals are just part of it.

Some might not want to be overly ritualistic but might still follow Dharma.

After all even Lord Krishna did advise Arjuna to go beyond the flowerly words of the Vedas which promise heavenly abodes.
Lord Krishna wanted Arjuna to transcend that stage.

Please do not get me wrong here..I am NOT finding fault with rituals here.
All I am saying that each person is comfortable doing what he/she is inclined karmically.

Some observe Dharma by preforming charity and good deeds and rituals(Karma),some thread the path of Jnana and some thread the path of Raja Yoga.

So I feel there is actually no reason for anyone to get too alarmed if certain rituals are not practiced.

Is anyone unhappy that the Sati System (burning of wife on funeral pyre) is not practiced anymore?

 

[Ramacchandran]

Actually even to day Brahmins are respected since they are the guides. But if a section of brahmins, calling themselves as high society, well to do wish to skip the analysing the horoscope, and advises the others also to follow them, mentioning in the profile that they didn't bother about the charector of the boy and girl, where Smoking Doesn't matter; Drinking - Doesn't matter, Eating doesn't matter that what it matters? only money matters!

These Atheist people/ Blasphemy person should not look for brahmin spouse for their wards. They should have broad mind in accepting non brahmins , and if possible from other religion too they must accept the spouse if they want money.

In future there will be another sect in our community which will read as Rich brahmins, where they need not see gothra, instead they can put the volme of money as gothra, such as Million Gothra/ Billion Gothra/ trillion gothra; let the rishi vamsam take rest for a while. Other brahmins will also just watch them and follow them and either close their eyes and mouth or praise them "You are the one who is doing great service" Our mutt head also support million gothra as they need money.

 

[renuka]

These Atheist people/ Blasphemy person should not look for brahmin spouse for their wards. They should have broad mind in accepting non brahmins , and if possible from other religion too they must accept the spouse if they want money.

Dear sir,

Why should an Atheist Brahmin consider a spouse from a different Varna?

Other Varnas might be believers of God too.

An Atheist should consider marriage with another Atheist so that there is no clash of ideologies in the long run.

I do not normally get involved with Caste based debates in forum but I think your words are a bit unfair.

 

[renuka]

Actually even to day Brahmins are respected since they are the guides.

Dear sir,

Respect has to be earned.
There is a saying that goes:

गुणाः पूजास्थानं गुणिषु न च लिङ्ग न् च वयः

Virtues alone are the ground of respect in virtuous people and not their age or gender.

No where it mentions Varna.
People will respect anyone who possesses virtue.
Anyone who has virtue can be a guide.

 

[renuka]

Our mutt head also support million gothra as they need money.

Dear sir,

You are actually running down your own mutt head.
This is not really fair a statement.
The Mutt head might not even be money minded.

 

[Ramacchandran]

No takers for advice by mutt heads. Mutt head needs money as it committed in to lot of activities. In future rich bramins will dictate Mutt head what he has to do and how to do.
No mutt head asks the brahmins to follow Vedas and rituals, and advice their followers not to drink , smoke and consume Non Veg.

Even if it advice no one to follow.

Please tell me which mutt is not money minded today?

 

[biswa]

I have deleted the second para from my post #6 as it is not relevant here and offends you unnecessarily.

Thank you for the conciliation. As a gesture of goodwill, I have deleted my response as well. What I really meant to say that a belief in horoscope is not one of the intrinsic qualities of a Brahmin, so the caste issue could have been left out of the original post.

I agree with what you said elsewhere that belief in horoscopes is not restricted to Brahmins nor do all Brahmins believe in horoscopes. It is simply not a caste issue except for the fact, that the lower classes (economically) often do not have the wherewithal to construct their own horoscope.

 

[biswa]

Let me extend the argument Renukaji made in her Ramayana post.

To start, let me admit, that I am actually a believer in horoscopes, only in the cases the horoscope is constructed by somebody extremely competent, such as my own physicist father. I myself have seen many of his predictions come to life.

However I am still skeptical about any good coming out of horoscope matching because of the following conundrum. Suppose somebody's horoscope predicts an unhappy married life. Then regardless of which partner he chooses, he is going to have an unhappy marriage. If we believe in the truth of the horoscope, then it must come true, isn't it?

Now consider the girl the above person is destined to marry. She may try to do all kinds of horoscope matching, but if it is in her destiny, then she has no choice but to participate in that unhappy marriage.

Ultimately, we humans are powerless in the hands of fate...

 

[biswa]

Astrology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Astrology is a pseudoscience, and as such is not taken seriously by the academic or scientific communities. Some scientific testing of astrology has been conducted, and no evidence has been found to support either the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological tradition. Furthermore, there is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth that does not contradict well understood, basic aspects of biology and physics."

In short it is like the "String Theory" of physics which cannot be experimentally validated either

 

[renuka]

No takers for advice by mutt heads. Mutt head needs money as it committed in to lot of activities. In future rich bramins will dictate Mutt head what he has to do and how to do.
No mutt head asks the brahmins to follow Vedas and rituals, and advice their followers not to drink , smoke and consume Non Veg.

Even if it advice no one to follow.

Please tell me which mutt is not money minded today?

Dear sir,

God himself comes down from Yuga to Yuga to uphold Dharma when it goes on decline mode.

God Himself is not complaining and takes it as His "Kartavyam" to uplift mankind.

So we should not get disheartened with what makes us unhappy.

Just lead life the way we know best.

Everything will perish in this world one day.
Nothing really last forever.

If we are looking for respect and status in society to make us happy..I guess we are truly not satisfied with ourselves.

 

[biswa]

Actually even to day Brahmins are respected since they are the guides. But if a section of brahmins, calling themselves as high society, well to do wish to skip the analysing the horoscope, and advises the others also to follow them, mentioning in the profile that they didn't bother about the charector of the boy and girl, where Smoking Doesn't matter; Drinking - Doesn't matter, Eating doesn't matter that what it matters? only money matters!

Huh? I don't think horoscopes constructed using the Indian system of astrology can indicate whether somebody drinks alcohol, eats meat or smokes cigars.

However it can predict monetary wealth, and maybe extra-marital affairs (perhaps indicated as multiple marriages?)

 

[biswa]

Dear sir,

God himself comes down from Yuga to Yuga to uphold Dharma when it goes on decline mode.

God Himself is not complaining and takes it as His "Kartavyam" to uplift mankind.

So we should not get disheartened with what makes us unhappy.

Just lead life the way we know best.

Everything will perish in this world one day.
Nothing really last forever.

If we are looking for respect and status in society to make us happy..I guess we are truly not satisfied with ourselves.

Well said Renuka. I think your horoscope must be quite complex as it must indicate that you would be both a healer and a philosopher.

 

[renuka]

Well said Renuka. I think your horoscope must be quite complex as it must indicate that you would be both a healer and a philosopher.

LOL!!
The best combination to be a fake guruji!!
May be I might start an ashram!!

 

[prasad1]

LOL!!
The best combination to be a fake guruji!!
May be I might start an ashram!!

It is a better gig. No calls, no malpractice, no tax what more do you need.

 

[renuka]

It is a better gig. No calls, no malpractice, no tax what more do you need.

Need people to join the ashram.
You see it can't be one man show!!

I feel you and Biswa should join too!

 

[swamiinathan]

I would like to know how & when H/S matching started in TB marriages. Now it has become a mainstay in arranged marriages without which people are reluctant to proceed further.