Logical Understanding and Applications of Spirituality

[sravna]

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Dear Sravna,

I have pasted an article above..I hope its visible.

Read it..it tells us why we should not use any spiritual energy.

Dear Renuka,

I replied to the article. Read my previous post again.

Let me also add it is always wise for spiritual development to take another's advice only as a higher level guidance and not for literal implementation.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,


When someone evolves to a certain point, spiritual clairvoyance, which is not at all psychic clairvoyance, arises naturally. Even then, the wise yogi keeps focused on the goal of complete liberation.
However in some cases the occasional–very rare–use of spiritual clairvoyance may be used. However it will only deal with the spiritual life of the individual and will only be directed to their liberation. In other words it will only relate to the process of sadhana–nothing else.
Only after enlightenment can spiritual clairvoyance be safely exercised, and then only at the will of God. In great Masters such as Yogananda and Sivananda this “clairvoyance” is really divine consciousness, a glimmer of omniscience.
The maze of the psychism



You should pay more attention to this paragraph..it clearly says ONLY after Liberation that spiritual energy can be used that too for valid reasons.
So I hope you understand how damaging to yourself all your efforts are becos you are not a Jeevan Mukta.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,


When someone evolves to a certain point, spiritual clairvoyance, which is not at all psychic clairvoyance, arises naturally. Even then, the wise yogi keeps focused on the goal of complete liberation.
However in some cases the occasional–very rare–use of spiritual clairvoyance may be used. However it will only deal with the spiritual life of the individual and will only be directed to their liberation. In other words it will only relate to the process of sadhana–nothing else.
Only after enlightenment can spiritual clairvoyance be safely exercised, and then only at the will of God. In great Masters such as Yogananda and Sivananda this “clairvoyance” is really divine consciousness, a glimmer of omniscience.
The maze of the psychism



You should pay more attention to this paragraph..it clearly says ONLY after Liberation that spiritual energy can be used that too for valid reasons.
So I hope you understand how damaging to yourself all your efforts are becos you are not a Jeevan Mukta.

Dear Renuka,

My own advice would be one should not be forced into a mindset but develop independent thinking and do what is right for their nature.

My approach for independent thinking is to get the self control first which helps one to think with clarity.

One's own thinking should not be subordinated and if so, that is when you really do harm to yourself.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Spiritual power is a natural extension of your mental powers.

People gifted with high intellectual ability do try to do good to the society by using that gift. I believe in todays's world more than guiding in an analytical way, ,one needs to to be able to help people fix their basic beliefs and offer them a higher level guidance because that is what is a permanent solution and be of real help to people.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

My own advice would be one should not be forced into a mindset but develop independent thinking and do what is right for their nature.

My approach for independent thinking is to get the self control first which helps one to think with clarity.

One's own thinking should not be subordinated and if so, that is when you really do harm to yourself.

Dear Sravna,

It seems to me that you rather go with your analysis and diagnosis with accordance to your nature even though the article was written by Swami Nirmalananda Giri.

Well..well..well... fair enough if you want to follow what you feel in accordance to your nature and understanding...BUT that also means you have absolutely ZERO right to guide others and should let others too live in accordance to their nature and believes.

Since you feel you have the right to reject even a spiritually inclined learned Swami jis perfectly sane advice..so same way Sravna...anyone can reject your analysis on the same grounds..since you feel one's thinking should not be subordinated.

Therefore it would be morally right to let the temperature of Chennai soar however high it is supposed to..let boiling water at Ray Sundars house take its own course to cool down....let diseases take it course..let others have sex as they like ..lose their virginity or have extra marital affairs as they please cos they too might not like the idea of subordinating their mind to others and cause self harm..its you who said "One's own thinking should not be subordinated and if so, that is when you really do harm to yourself"

I hope you get what I mean.

You cant preach your personal brand of spirituality and expect it to be the Gospel Truth.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Spiritual power is a natural extension of your mental powers.

People gifted with high intellectual ability do try to do good to the society by using that gift. I believe in todays's world more than guiding in an analytical way, ,one needs to to be able to help people fix their basic beliefs and offer them a higher level guidance because that is what is a permanent solution and be of real help to people.

Dear Sravna,

The higher the intellectual ability of a person the more he/she realizes that in a macrocosmic scale he/she is totally helpless and can only function at a microcosmic scale within the limited resources available.

A truly high intellect knows there is a lot beyond the mind and the body and never tries to go against the laws of nature.

 

[renuka]

Na dharma nishtOsmi, na caathma vEdi, na bhaktimAn twachcharanAravindE akichanOnyagatissaranya,
TwatpAda Moolam Saranam prapatyE.

[h=5]na dharma nishtOsmi na chaatma vEdi
na bhaktimaan tvaccharaNAravindE
akinchanOananyagatih saraNya!
tvat paadamoolam saranam prapadye. (Sthothra Rathnam- 22nd sloka)

Oh you worthy of being sought as refuge! I am not one established in Dharma, nor am i a knower of the self. I have no fervent devotion to your lotus-feet. Utterly destitute as I am and having none else for resort, I take refuge under your feet. (Translation by Swamy Adidevananda)[/h]

http://www.mudaliandan.com/alavandar.php

 

[Vaagmi]

na dharma nishtOsmi na chaatma vEdi
na bhaktimaan tvaccharaNAravindE
akinchanOananyagatih saraNya!
tvat paadamoolam saranam prapadye. (Sthothra Rathnam- 22nd sloka)

Oh you worthy of being sought as refuge! I am not one established in Dharma, nor am i a knower of the self. I have no fervent devotion to your lotus-feet. Utterly destitute as I am and having none else for resort, I take refuge under your feet. (Translation by Swamy Adidevananda)



http://www.mudaliandan.com/alavandar.php

Thats the ever tactful Renukaji. I do not know what happened to my original post. It has just vanished. LOL.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

It seems to me that you rather go with your analysis and diagnosis with accordance to your nature even though the article was written by Swami Nirmalananda Giri.

Well..well..well... fair enough if you want to follow what you feel in accordance to your nature and understanding...BUT that also means you have absolutely ZERO right to guide others and should let others too live in accordance to their nature and believes.

Since you feel you have the right to reject even a spiritually inclined learned Swami jis perfectly sane advice..so same way Sravna...anyone can reject your analysis on the same grounds..since you feel one's thinking should not be subordinated.

Therefore it would be morally right to let the temperature of Chennai soar however high it is supposed to..let boiling water at Ray Sundars house take its own course to cool down....let diseases take it course..let others have sex as they like ..lose their virginity or have extra marital affairs as they please cos they too might not like the idea of subordinating their mind to others and cause self harm..its you who said "One's own thinking should not be subordinated and if so, that is when you really do harm to yourself"

I hope you get what I mean.

You cant preach your personal brand of spirituality and expect it to be the Gospel Truth.

Well well well Renuka, everyone has the right to not listen to others. But the real idea is I am offering firsthand experiences all of which attest to the veracity of our scriptures and I am trying to give it a interpretation which i believe has not been given before. It is up to people to accept it if they find it appealing, debate it if they find it contestable or reject it outright.

 

[renuka]

Well well well Renuka, everyone has the right to not listen to others. But the real idea is I am offering firsthand experiences all of which attest to the veracity of our scriptures and I am trying to give it a interpretation which i believe has not been given before. It is up to people to accept it if they find it appealing, debate it if they find it contestable or reject it outright.

Wow...I was under the impression that you have a high regard for enlightened Swamijis and religious/spiritual figures but I was wrong I guess.

Even Ramakrishna Paramahansa(RP) removed the spiritual power of a disciple who could produce light from his hands becos Ramakrisha Paramhansa felt siddha powers would distract the disciples Sadhana.

Once a person told to RP that he has siddha powers to walk on water to cross the river and RP coolly replied that when he wanted to cross the river he takes a boat.

So its not only the opinion of Swami Nirmalananda Giri that usage of spiritual powers is detrimental to those who are not liberated..its a well known fact..even Swami Vivekananda was not user friendly about short cut activation of Kundalini.


So Sravna..I guess I do not seem to find evidence of spirituality in your sermons now. You are just like anyone else..but at least most of us do not imagine we have powers..welcome to the real world Sravna...Koi Farq Nahi Hain Yaar..Aap aur Aam Aadmi.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Let us be real. No one can force anyone to accept the views of others. It definitely applies for what I say also. People should be left to grapple with the issues, understand them, and eventually internalize them. Everyone is divine inside. The divinity is just waiting to emerge at the right moment. To help in doing is what others who have gone through similar experiences can do. But I do not advocate forcing views.

 

[renuka]

Let us be real. .

Al-ḥamdu lillāh (الحَمْد لله‎‎) Let Praise be to God!



Finally!LOL

 

[sravna]

Al-ḥamdu lillāh (الحَمْد لله‎‎) Let Praise be to God!



Finally!LOL

Indeed and always

 

[sravna]

Think about this folks . Lower levels of existences also have to evolve. That is how we came into being. If they evolve it has to be under some laws. They cannot be spiritual laws and so physical laws have to serve this purpose. It is perfectly logical that for humans spiritual laws are more important for further evolution.

 

[renuka]

Think about this folks . Lower levels of existences also have to evolve. That is how we came into being. If they evolve it has to be under some laws. They cannot be spiritual laws and so physical laws have to serve this purpose. It is perfectly logical that for humans spiritual laws are more important for further evolution.

Dear Sravna,

But being human we have the Free Will to choose NOT to evolve spiritually.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

But being human we have the Free Will to choose NOT to evolve spiritually.

Well well Renuka here comes the confusion. Being spiritual is being able to exercise your will freely. Think about it.

 

[renuka]

Well well Renuka here comes the confusion. Being spiritual is being able to exercise your will freely. Think about it.

Evolution of consciousness is not auto-pilot mode for a human.

Even a totally NON spiritual person can halt thoughts of evolving.

For example...I do not give in to thoughts of evolving "spiritually"..reason? I rather be real and be in this world and not dabble or hanker about something I do not know and do not wish to know.


Ignorance can be bliss too sometimes..like it that way.

 

[sravna]

Evolution of consciousness is not auto-pilot mode for a human.

Even a totally NON spiritual person can halt thoughts of evolving.

For example...I do not give in to thoughts of evolving "spiritually"..reason? I rather be real and be in this world and not dabble or hanker about something I do not know and do not wish to know.


Ignorance can be bliss too sometimes..like it that way.

Have your way Renuka

 

[sravna]

Understanding the purpose in nature is much more important than understanding just the mechanics. Both the physical and spiritual laws exists for a purpose.

 

[sravna]

We are part of nature. When we are goal oriented and driven by purposes, would not nature have a purpose?

 

[sravna]

The failing of science in my view is in considering nature as something purely mechanical bereft of any purpose.

 

[sravna]

When there is order there has to be co-ordination and co-ordination implies a higher level of control. Laws of nature point to order and therefore existence of higher level control.

 

[sravna]

Folks,

Here is a summary of the big picture which would help in putting the physical and spiritual laws in context: Note I have replaced the term pure energy by boundless energy for a more clear understanding.

The fundamental premise is that energy naturally exists in a boundless way. This in my view is a more logically accessible starting point for explaining laws of nature. The boundless energy does not have parts because it does not exist in a space. Similarly the experiences of the boundless energy do not happen in a linear way but as a holistic one since it does not exist in time. Since it has no boundaries, it also exists as the sole reality.

The boundless energy was existing also as a bounded energy being bound within space and time. We can logically assume that there is bounded energy because we know we exist within space and time. From the previous assumption nature is fundamentally a boundless reality. These two realities have always co-existed.We seem to have contradictions in the co-existence of realities here. How could a timeless reality and a space time bound reality exist together

From the point of view of the boundless reality the physical universes do not exist because for something timeless, a time bound entity cannot exist. But the time bound reality that we experience is because some of the experiences of the boundless energy is bound as I pointed out and results in spacetime bound experience of reality. But it is not a wholly true experience because these time bound experiences as part of the holistic experiences of the boundless energy do not exist. So time bound reality is a relative reality as it is only true for time bound entities.

 

[sravna]

Mass and charge are two properties of matter and these two properties are the fundamental causes of disharmony in physical entities. Mass results because of matter spanning between two or more units of space and matter always spans two or more units of space. Charge I believe happens because matter spanning two or more units of time. Since time is dynamic in nature, charge is dynamic too.

The four fundamental forces of nature occur because of interactions between masses or between charges. For example attractive forces between masses cause gravitation and between, electron and proton charges causes electromagnetism. The four forces of nature keep working and cause the formation of higher level entities such as molecules, compounds etc.

The aggregation happens in such a way that causes synergy and the influence of the four forces more and more waning on the entity. This is evolution of the physical forms. A stage is reached that enough synergy creates a higher level entity such as life and the higher level energy being free of all the influences of physical forces.

So the purpose of 4 forces is to help evolution of physical entities and help them free of their influences

 

[sravna]

Similarly when mind is formed it is in a vulnerable state. With evolution due to experiences and introspection, it frees itself from the influences of the forces such as lust, anger etc Spiritual laws are at play in the formation of experiences and intuitions.

So to put in context, physical laws and spiritual laws which operate the physical and mental forces have the purpose of taking the entities through an innumerable host of experiences and let them be fit for union back into the original boundless energy.