Logical Understanding of Spirituality- II

[sravna]

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I will start with a consolidated presentation of the first part and proceed as required for coherent understanding of what is presented.

 

[sravna]

Folks,

I am happy to announce that I have taken up spirituality full time and so would be able to focus more on it and give more thought to what I say. The interactions with TB forum members would immensely help me to shape my opinions and hone the logic.

I look forward to the interactions.

 

[renuka]

Hey Sravna...you mean to say all these while you were not a full time spiritualist?

 

[sravna]

The greatest tussle that happens in the universe is the constant one between the energies that exist in space and time and the ones that are beyond the universe. The latter do not require space and time and therefore beyond the universe. The purpose of this tussle is to project the truth of the timelessness and the unity of nature.

The first logical explanation we seek is that how do we know that energies exist beyond space and time?

We know that mass is equivalent to energy. When two pieces of mass are joined together the resulting mass is the sum of the masses of the two pieces. But when in the case of energy as a wave, two waves can synchronize and when they synchronize well synergy is produced , that is extra energy other than the energy of the two waves is produced. The whole becomes greater than the sum of the individual pieces.

The above concept underlies the understanding of spiritual energy, energy that can transcend space and time. When enough synchronization happens at some stage the whole become such a high energy that it is beyond the total energy of the physical universe and cannot be affected by any of them. I introduce the idea that space and time can also be energies. So when the synchronized energy transcend space and time, then it becomes spiritual energy or energy of the inner world.

I have just explained the latter part of a process, the first part being the energies in space and time and space and time themselves being projected from the inner spiritual energy.

There will be more clarity as I proceed.

 

[sravna]

No Renuka, only part time focus on spirituality. Remember I was also coaching for entrance exams though still plan to do it in a limited way.

 

[sravna]

As a clarification, synergy can be produced between masses and between charges as they can complement and attract respectively.

 

[sravna]

To understand the meaning of synergy in a practical way, consider the following statments

1. John is a male
2. Mary is a female
3. Males are mortal

From the statements 1 and 3 we can conclude that John is mortal though the two statements explicitly don't say that. Here synergy is at work because, you are doing more work to come to the inference that John is mortal than the total work to understand the two statements.

Now consider that someone may come to the conclusion that Mary is also mortal. What is happening here is that you are not only interconnecting what you see consciously but also premises which are at the subconscious, for example here that is there is no difference between a male and a female with regard to mortality. This is deeper and is called an intuition and the signals the starting of spiritual thinking. As you make more and more connections and get deeper, the better is the quality of spiritual thinking. Synergy is clearly at work here.

The more the interconnections or the synchronizations, the more is the synergy.

 

[sravna]

This is how I wish to proceed:

After giving my views on creation and its purpose and mechanics , my views on sustenance of the universe and also my views on the final coming to an end of the universe, I will describe in chapter 1 the physical universe and its phenomenon and how to logically interpret them and in chapters 2 and 3 about the mental and the spiritual realities.

My view is that everything happens in the most intelligent way possible and we have miserably failed to see through the illusion that cover events and phenomena and so the significance of what is happening around us is totally missed by us.

I am not claiming any special knowledge about the working of nature but just airing what I believe to be true about nature.

 

[sravna]

Spiritual energy is an integrating energy. We will see more on this later. The other main category of energy is the physical energy which is a disintegrating energy. Integrating and disintegrating energies constantly are in tussle.

Integration of energies is caused by the natural affinities for integration and disintegration is caused by force constantly being exerted by space time energies including space and time.

Why should there be integration and disintegration? This takes us back to the question of the purpose of the universe. We shall come to that later though the brief answer is without disintegrating energies universe just becomes the spiritual reality. So we see events like death and destruction, pain and sufferings and so on which do not exist in the spiritual reality.

 

[sravna]

The next logical question is that how do we know that space and time were projected from the spiritual energy? For that we need to understand that timelessness and unity of experience is the essence of the ultimate reality. Let us consider the major alternatives(i) Universe neither had a beginning nor will have an end (ii) Space and time became realities out of nothing.

The negation of the first one is simple. If time had stretched infinitely backwards, we could not have come to the present. In other words if time is infinite it stops moving and so infinite time is a contradiction.

The negation of the second is also simple. Space and time coming out of nothing or something coming out of nothing is another logical contradiction.

Any other hypothesis in my view can be contradicted in some way. The logical explanation or at least something which cannot be contradicted is that time emerged out of timelessness but the objection how can time and timelessness exist together can be addressed by premising that time and space are lower realities and hence not absolute realities. So thinking in terms of hierarchy of realities will solve the problem.

So we can reasonably come to the conclusion that space and time were projected from the spiritual energy which I earlier explained exists beyond space and time.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Logic of Spirituality

Spirituality is the source energy
Electricity is an energy
So Spirituality gives electricity

Logical? illogically logical? Or logically illogical?

I presume probably think this the absolute Logic that traject to Ultimate Truth even when mind is blinded by Maya!

https://youtu.be/DBScgNPqCNU

 

[sravna]

In my earlier thread I mentioned that the purpose of physical world is for God who is the ultimate spiritual energy, to have an orthogonal experience, one that is filled with tension between integrating and disintegrating energies, to that of the perfectly harmonious experience He has as pure spiritual energy.

That would seem to be the purpose of creation.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

In this post I would like to show the physical world is created for me!

https://youtu.be/Wu_2npFoJWg

 

[sravna]

A question may arise if the experience as pure spiritual energy is complete in itself why create physical world which will not offer a new experience? The answer attributed to Adi Sankara is that the experience of the physical world is an illusory experience and so is different from the real experience only as pure spiritual energy. So they become different.

 

[sravna]

If one has to talk with reference to advaita philosophy, brahman as nirguna brahman experiences the timeless reality and as saguna brahman the time bound reality.

Renuka, as an expert on advaita what do you say?

 

[sravna]

Again with reference to advaita philosophy, the experience of nirguna brahman is the ultimate and the experience as saguna brahman is one with that ultimate timeless reality.

 

[renuka]

If one has to talk with reference to advaita philosophy, brahman as nirguna brahman experiences the timeless reality and as saguna brahman the time bound reality.

Renuka, as an expert on advaita what do you say?

LOL!

Sravna?? When did I become an expert in Advaita?

I can share my basic understanding though.

You wrote "brahman as nirguna brahman experiences the timeless reality"

Well...this if you ask me does not seem to jive..reason?

Its NIRGUNA Brahman we are talking about here..so why is Nirguna Brahman experiencing anything for that matter?

To experience something there would need to be at least the minimum of 2 states..that is "that which is happening" and "that which experiences it"

So in Nirguna Brahman which is an Ekam Advaita Brahman state..a state without a second..how can there still be something to experience be it even a timeless reality.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

For lack of better expression, it is experience outside of time. So there need not be two states. There is just one entity and a timeless experience. What do you think?

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

For lack of better expression, it is experience outside of time. So there need not be two states. There is just one entity and a timeless experience. What do you think?

That sounds like the act of Self Gratification of the Masturbatory kind...where there is just one entity and a timeless experience!LOL

 

[sravna]

That sounds like the act of Self Gratification of the Masturbatory kind...where there is just one entity and a timeless experience!LOL

Let us be serious Renuka. Anyway Nirguna brahman is beyond action and thoughts. That is a higher state of being. So let us not try to degrade divinity without proper understanding. I think you need to read up more on advaita.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna...Its not degrading Divinity..you did say a single entity and a timeless experience..
It did sound like self gratification.

First you called me an Advaita expert..now you say I need to read up moreLOL

But whatever said and done Nirguna Brahman is a state beyond anything..technically I dont think there is anything Nirguna should be experiencing.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna...Its not degrading Divinity..you did say a single entity and a timeless experience..
It did sound like self gratification.

First you called me an Advaita expert..now you say I need to read up moreLOL

But whatever said and done Nirguna Brahman is a state beyond anything..technically I dont think there is anything Nirguna should be experiencing.

Dear Renuka,

I think there is nothing inconsistent in what I said. You can be an expert but may still have to read up more. So do I or anybody else.

Anyway, nirguna brahman is described by these three words: existence, consciousness and Bliss.

The second word indicates the experience and the third word the type of experience.

 

[sravna]

The logical question regarding creation next to its purpose is how was the universe created?

If we accept that universe arose out of the spiritual energy which exists as one and that energy is timeless what does it say about how the universe was created? firstly, it says what is "created" is an illusion. This is because from the point of view of the spiritual energy time is not perceived and we can conclude that if something is not perceived by the ultimate reality it is an illusion.

 

[sravna]

How do we say that one reality is at a higher level than another? If from the point of view of a reality it is possible to perceive all of the other reality and more, the former is a higher reality. This idea is related to the idea of a whole being more than the sum of its parts because of the synergy between the parts.

There is close connection between the various parts of the lower reality. But one can say that there is the perception of disconnectedness in the lower reality.

Creation happened because of the illusion of disconnectedness of the spiritual energy.

 

[Vaagmi]

Two nirguna brahman believers competing to decypher the entity. LOL.