Is the Community digging its own grave

[kunjuppu]

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Such ideologies of yours and other like minded members were the reason behind Shri.Venkata Raman & Shri.Swaminatha Sarma kicking themselves out of this Forum, once for all.

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not true ravi.

venkat & swami left for completely different reasons. please trust me on this one ok?

 

[sangom]

not true ravi.

venkat & swami left for completely different reasons. please trust me on this one ok?

Ravi probably wants to hit with whatever weapon he can get even though I think he knows the true reason. Sad!!

 

[C RAVI]

Ravi probably wants to hit with whatever weapon he can get even though I think he knows the true reason. Sad!!

No. Sir!! I have no intention to use any weapon to hit any one. I told what I could sense and what I get to know both through online & offline..

 

[Nara]

In general, personal insults and general incivility are recognized only when they are incoming and never when they are directed outward. I am not exempting myself from this. This is why I try my best to edit out anything that are unnecessarily personal. I know I don't succeed all the time, but I am also sure I succeed at it lot more often than what I am charged with.

One of the problems is not differentiating between views we desperately disagree with, and personal put downs and mocking directed at an individual. Cogent and well argued views and opinion are not of the later category however much they may hurt our feelings. We must be able to make this distinction if we are to have a spirited exchange of ideas. I believe disagreements must be sorted out through civil debate without appealing to emotions such as hurt feelings or succumbing to them with anger and lash out with insults.

To maintain civility is the responsibility of all of us. I will try my best to live up to this standard and try not to fail too often.

With this preamble, let me say that my post 565 has provoked a couple of unfortunate responses that are better forgotten. I will be happy to answer any objections if posed to me.

Also, I once again point to post 262 wherein I made some concrete proposals to safeguard Brahmin culture within each family.

Thank you ....

 

[prasad1]

Naraji,
This is not mocking, so please do not complain to the moderator.
The last time I liked your post, I got a stern warning.
We have our differences, but I do admire your thoughtful writings.

I submit to you, under the present socio-economic conditions in Tamil Nadu, there is simply no practical way to slow down the rate of IC/IR, let alone eliminate them. Given this reality, you and others who think like you need to think about what constitutes "traditional Brahminical way and the attendant cultural moorings". You have stated in post #25 that you "are not talking of caste purity". If this is so, my humble suggestion is, make a list of what you think are important Brahminical cultural ways, things that are important. Since I was raised in a Brahmin family I think I can start you off with the following:
Birth and death rituals
Upanayanam and a little bit of sandhyavandhanam as convenient
Shloka recital in the evening, Vishnu Sahasranamam etc.
May be a little Veda -- Rudram, Chamakam, Purusha Suktham, may be Taitreyam
Carnatic music and Bharatha natyam
Food habits


I think you can further expand on this rudimentary list. Vaagmi had the right idea, pick and choose what makes sense (though he seems to walk back from this ).


Raise the children along these principles, whether they are born out of IC/IR or SC/SR. The threat of your "community digging its own grave" comes not from IC/IR alone but also SC/SR parents not caring about the above list.


So, my humble suggestion is, if the children wish to have IC/IR, don't oppose it, don't threaten them with dire consequences, accept them with love. Get involved in their lives. Then, when time comes, teach your grandkids to follow the Brahminical ways listed above. Don't you think this is way more practical than trying to send the children to Brahmin-certified schools etc.


Please think about it, there is practically no downside, IC/IR is becoming more and more common as you have noted in your OP. Therefore there is no stigma anymore. Further, your children will be grateful that you have accepted their choice of IC/IR with love, and will be happy that you are involved in their lives, which will give you the opportunity to pass on what you see are important Brahminical ways and cultural moorings to the next generation. In as much as you care for these and not for caste purity there must be no objections.

 

[zebra16]

Dear Shri gane,

I am talking mostly about this tendency only. You were most agitated about IC/IR marriages and when somebody gives some action points, immediately your knee-jerk reaction is to point to Thambras. Why is it that you have not asked your equally brahminist members like Vaagmi, Sravna, Ravi and side actors like Zebra, Sarang, Kalabhairavan, etc., to consider these suggestions at least? That is why I am constrained to point out the weaknesses of tabras which immediately becomes 'brahmin bashing'; I am sure this tactic of calling brahmin bashing is also an equally disgraceful strategy to shirk any possible task of doing something to make this community active.

Anyway, I feel we can at least discuss the suggestions of Shri Chandru and what can be done in/by/through this forum.

Sri Sangom,

I take exception to the use of language made by you. So this rejoinder.

Have I written anything on IC/IR marriages? If in your old age you cannot remember who wrote what at least use your usual vazha vazha kozha kozha language by using words like perhaps, may be, it is my considered opinion, some think that, it is also possible etc. and keep an escape route for yourselves.

Do not presume yourselves to be a king cobra and that others would be wary of your venom always.

 

[Nara]

Naraji,
This is not mocking, so please do not complain to the moderator.
The last time I liked your post, I got a stern warning.
We have our differences, but I do admire your thoughtful writings.

prasad1, I appreciate that you have admiration for my writing, I am sorry we have different views, but that is inevitable, not even husband and wife agree on everything. We need to deal with the differences of opinions without descending into overt or covert name calling. By this I am not saying you are anybody else is indulging in this, it is just an observation that applies to all of us. Like everyone else, I write what I write with conviction. I like my views to be challenged in a rational and unemotional way. When they are mischaracterized and/or mocked at, it becomes impossible to have a conversation.

I don't recall reporting you to the moderator, very rarely if ever I report anyone to the moderator -- the fact is I can't even remember the last time I reported anyone to the higher ups. So, the apology I offer is unfortunately not unconditional -- if I mistook your "Like" and reported you, then I am sorry.

regards ....

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Doesn't Sangom's post #562 and #575, contradict the position that one's varna was stirctly determined only by birth. Don't these posts negate the claim repeated here ad nauseam that varna vyavastha was an oppressive birth-based system and that this system held sway for millennia before british colonized us? If Kshatriya and King status were ordained merely by RAjasUyam and other rituals, then we would have to take it that the dharmasasthras were not really in effect.

 

[Nara]

Doesn't Sangom's post #562 and #575, contradict the position that one's varna was stirctly determined only by birth. Don't these posts negate the claim repeated here ad nauseam that varna vyavastha was an oppressive birth-based system and that this system held sway for millennia before british colonized us? If Kshatriya and King status were ordained merely by RAjasUyam and other rituals, then we would have to take it that the dharmasasthras were not really in effect.

KB, you are assuming what is good for Maran and KB is good for Maasi and Kuppai. Brahmins and the power elite always find a way to get together. Birth based oppression is an ever present tool available to those who successfully rise above the threshold varna and become powerful enough to attract Brahmin sycophancy. All the Brahimns who sit on top of varna hierarchy need to do is co-opt those who percolate up the power hierarchy. Once they are co-opted, they will do the dirty job of keeping the laboring masses at bay. So, varna is indeed strictly by birth, except when someone is able to assert dominance through violence, then the Brahmins are at their beck and call to shower varna legitimacy. Their shashthras give them the advantage of heads I win, tails you loose. The hypocrisy is palpable and to explain it away is your problem.

thanks ...

 

[Vaagmi]

not true ravi.

venkat & swami left for completely different reasons. please trust me on this one ok?

Dear Kunjuppu,

What was the real reason for which this venkat and swami left? Is it such an atomic secret that it cannot be revealed here. If so please let me know by PM. I am curious. Thanks.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

So, varna is indeed strictly by birth, except when someone is able to assert dominance through violence, then the Brahmins are at their beck and call to shower varna legitimacy. Their shashthras give them the advantage of heads I win, tails you loose. The hypocrisy is palpable and to explain it away is your problem.

A kingdom is won through war. That was the case throughout the world during those times and this was not unique to varna vyavastha following bharatha-varsha. That was the only way for others to claim Kshatriya status. But the fact that they were able to do so is proof that varna status was not always conferred only/strictly by birth.

It is not that only kshatriya status was gained by groups which came previously under another varna. We have other examples too - like a section of vELALars becoming kArALars, indulging in trade and becoming vELAN chetti or poo vaisyars. Here a group belonging to vELALars became vaNikars. Similarly we have instances of people involved in medical profession (vaidhyas) moving from vaishya varna to Brahmin varna.

Just because Nara asserts that varna is indeed strictly by birth, it does not become so. That is if we analyze history dispassionately, something a prejudiced mind cannot do.

 

[Vaagmi]

Post #584

KB, you are assuming what is good for Maran and KB is good for Maasi and Kuppai. Brahmins and the power elite always find a way to get together. Birth based oppression is an ever present tool available to those who successfully rise above the threshold varna and become powerful enough to attract Brahmin sycophancy. All the Brahimns who sit on top of varna hierarchy need to do is co-opt those who percolate up the power hierarchy. Once they are co-opted, they will do the dirty job of keeping the laboring masses at bay. So, varna is indeed strictly by birth, except when someone is able to assert dominance through violence, then the Brahmins are at their beck and call to shower varna legitimacy. Their shashthras give them the advantage of heads I win, tails you loose. The hypocrisy is palpable and to explain it away is your problem.

1) "Brahmins and the power elites"--who are these elites. Are they brahmins or not? If not who were they?

2)"who successfully rise above the threshold varna and become powerful enough to attract Brahmin sycophancy". -- which is this threshold verna? After raising themselves above this varna why should they look for the sycophancy of brahmins alone and not the others who are there already above the threshold but below the Brahmins?

3)The fact that (if that is a fact at all) 98% of the population (if you leave the panchaman from the reckoning then it would become 88%) tried to placate, satisfy, please, bribe, pray to, prostrate before, beg for recognition from etc of 2% of the population shows there is either something seriously wrong with the entire population(like they were not humans at all but some kind of morons, apes etc) or that there is something horribly untrue about this story itself. Those who keep repeating this cock and bull story are making all those who hear this fools and jokers. They owe an explanation for this indulgence in mischief.

4)Shasthras were there not only for brahmins but for the rest of the population too. In my village the two tumbler system was vehemently implemented by the shudra caste than by the brahmins. Panchaman women were raped as a matter of right by shudras and not by the brahmins. Panchamans were prevented from walking through the streets by shudras. Panchamans were used to announce the death of shudras not only in the village streets but also sent to nearby villages on such errands by shudras only not by brahmins. So who used shastras for what purpose was a matter of convenience of the dominant castes not exclusively of brahmins. How many times should this logical fact be pointed out? My god. People's cerebral cortex can not become so numb so often. Or is it the usual hypocrisy?

Thanks.

 

[sravna]

Post #584


How many times should this logical fact be pointed out? My god. People's cerebral cortex can not become so numb so often. Or is it the usual hypocrisy?

Thanks.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

The problem is not that they do not understand. They are just pretending that they do not understand. Just like you cannot wake up a person who is pretending to be asleep, you cannot make them openly accept what you say.

 

[sarang]

At least one section may be reserved for the sangom and et alii and et aliae and et alia for venting their pent up anger, frustration, hate, and incapacity to destroy brahmana community; with no entry for others for keeping pat-hate harmony.

There are thousand things which cannot be reached or understood or proved by low level logic of the west or by the so called 'unscientific' attribute. Misrepresentation and twisting of history started by anglo historians is treated as gospel and carried on their heads.

Sri Sangom,

I take exception to the use of language made by you. So this rejoinder.

Have I written anything on IC/IR marriages? If in your old age you cannot remember who wrote what at least use your usual vazha vazha kozha kozha language by using words like perhaps, may be, it is my considered opinion, some think that, it is also possible etc. and keep an escape route for yourselves.

Do not presume yourselves to be a king cobra and that others would be wary of your venom always.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Before I venture to respond to your -as usual - brilliant remarks, may I ask you what draws and keeps you coming again & again to this "stinking gutter"? Is it that you are unable to find any sandal grinding forum?

When we nitwits make posts in this stinking forum, we or at least I, use the phrases like "one set of opinion", "probably", "may not be" etc. Most other members being on the same wavelength as myself, we don't insist on non-user of these phrases, as in forums citing scientific journals and proven facts.


I am surprised that a phenomenal intellect such as yours is not capable of understanding (or is it that there is a tendency on your part to be stubbornly obstructive and unwilling to cooperate?) the simple fact that many shudra kings have been there but once they become kings, thanks to the brahmins' cooperation, they graduate themselves as Kshatriyas, ask the very same brahmins to bestow them with a geneology and it has been the custom to create legends showing the newly crowned king as coming in Surya vamsa or Chandra vamsa. From that point onwards, as a Kshatriya, the king gets a seat of honour in the brahmins' yAgasAla and this honour will disappear if he (the king) continues to pose himself as belonging to his erstwhile caste/class/group or whatever.

Once the kingship was approved by the brahmins all castes followed the dictats of the king. Thus the king ruled all his subjects.



Mura is held to be a dAsi in the Nanda kingdom by historians. History being what it is, there obviously cannot be scientific proof for each and every statement. You are, however, free to do your own research and present your findings with necessary supporting evidence, keeping in mind the standards of this forum. (all of low intelligence, just திண்ணைப் பேச்சு level of intellects here). Only when Chandragupta was crowned "king", did he become a kshatriya and the name came to be known to later history as Chandragupta Maurya and the dynasty also is now identified as the Maurya dynasty. Since the name gupta appears in the name some historians say that possibly he owed allegiance to some Vaisya caste. In any case, once the coronation was over Chandragupta became a kshatriya in the eyes of the ancient indians living in his empire. His paternity was not relevant there.



Did I say I have any grouse? Come on Shri Vaagmi, why do you want to flash out your difficult and contrary disposition in this stinking gutter, again and again? go find some sandalwood forest. lots of king cobras will be there for you to match your venom with. Or else settle down in Agumbe itself.

Now, you have yourself admitted that in 'that day' the social reality was that by pleasing the brahmins one could get the approval of all his subjects. Yet one para before you had all kinds of doubt about Chandagupta doing the same. Strange are the ways of super-intellects indeed!!



I see that like the saying which goes as போத்திக்கிணே படுத்துக்கலாம், படுத்துக்கிணே போத்திக்கலாம், etc., you also agree that "brahmins were slowly perceived as பிச்சைக்கு வந்த பிராமணன்". Whether this was due only to the seven-year drought or due to other reasons also is the important question.



I agree that I may not know everything about Tamil Brahmins' histrory. But you have not yet proved your credentials about knowing everything about that subject either; yet you feel you can crow and that you have a right to crow. perhaps that is Robert Boyd's theory. FYI, my ancestry is from Tamil Nadu and till my father-in-law's time they had small agricultural lands there, now all sold. Hence, you seem to be an ideal example of தனக்குப்பிடித்த(ஆனால் சரியாக புரிந்துகொள்ளாத) விஷயங்களை வெத்தலையாகவும் பாக்காகவும் புகையிலையாகவும் போட்டு சவையோ சவை என்று சவைத்து இடமும் வலமும் துப்பி சித்திரம்(?) வரையவும் தெரிந்த, தன்னுடைய கடந்த காலங்களில் மட்டுமே வாழ்ந்து அப்படியே உறைந்து நின்றுவிட்டிருக்கும் பரிதாபமான ஜன்மம்.

Dear Sangom,

1) If someone is adamant about ploughing only the gutter what can I do? I am helpless. I just hold my breath and walk past.

2) I can see clearly an attempt on your part to play victim. You are trying hard to rally people here around you. They clearly understand whom I called "audience". "பரிதாபமான ஜன்மங்கள்" ETC., So your drama in which you play the victimhood rallying point is a miserable failure.

3) "Unwilling to cooperate" you have said. Cooperate in what? In cutting and throwing away the poonal? In listening to liberal hypocritic advice and encouraging the girls to go for IC/IR marriages? Accepting that vedas are all buncum, Shasthras were written by the brahmins, for the brahmins, of the brahmins etc, that brahmins had always been exploiting and were living off the society as parasites, that somehow brahmins had an unexplainable sway and control over all the other communities-some thing like a magic spell- because of which the atrocities committed by them were not questioned by anyone, that given a chance all the brahmin girls would prefer to marry NB boys because of 10 infamous reasons gleaned by you by your talking to brahmin girls? If this is the cooperation you are asking for , you will never get it here.

4) "history being what it is, there can not be a scientific proof"-your words. But did you and your comrades in arm not ask for historical proof quoting chapter and verse for everything said here? And after collecting the chapter and verse run away from here?

5) You have quoted history selectively. Chandragupta Murya's paternity could have been kshatriya also. Why don't you say that? When Chanakya was humiliated in the public by the Nanda King he took an oath openly before everyone in the court that he would one day destroy the nanda dynasty and make an ordinary man a King of Magad. Chanakya did exactly what he swore. I do not know why you left out this part of the history from the write up here. To me the reasons are obvious and they are stinking.

6) If you were aware of the economic reasons(droughts and famine) why did you never mention them while crowing about the downfall of brahmins from their exalted positions?

Perhaps selective amnesia.

Thanks.

 

[sangom]

A kingdom is won through war. That was the case throughout the world during those times and this was not unique to varna vyavastha following bharatha-varsha. That was the only way for others to claim Kshatriya status. But the fact that they were able to do so is proof that varna status was not always conferred only/strictly by birth.

It is not that only kshatriya status was gained by groups which came previously under another varna. We have other examples too - like a section of vELALars becoming kArALars, indulging in trade and becoming vELAN chetti or poo vaisyars. Here a group belonging to vELALars became vaNikars. Similarly we have instances of people involved in medical profession (vaidhyas) moving from vaishya varna to Brahmin varna.

Just because Nara asserts that varna is indeed strictly by birth, it does not become so. That is if we analyze history dispassionately, something a prejudiced mind cannot do.

Dear Shri KB,

Those who had the physical might and some leadership & organizational skill sometimes emerged as small or petty kings. Taking that small status as a starting point these petty kings went on enlarging the geographical frontiers of their "kingdom" through wars. All these wars included rape, plunder and carrying away of the loot which included maidens also. Many of the old kingdoms did not have "standing armies", meaning soldiers on a regular pay and in army barracks. At least this was the practice in most of south India. Even in Tamil Nadu, when the king declared war, the fact was announced throughout the land and all able-bodied men (excluding brahmins, of course) were conscripted. If these soldiers returned from the war victorious, they could usually keep all that each of them had looted from the enemy territory and also any cattle & maiden whom he had carried, subject, of course, to first charge of the king and the army commander/s.

Hence, it will be observed that there used to be "varna samkara" (as Arjuna fears in BG) in many instances of the common population but climbing up the varna vyavastha was not possible; it was mostly one of going down the ladder.

The "king" irrespective of the caste/varna to which he originally belonged (before acquiring his first small kingdom) usually acquired the "kshatriya" status with the patronage of brahmins. I have read that even the Naiks of Madurai thus got a kshatriya lineage from king Mahabali or someone.

Therefore, the general rule in Hinduism has been that one's varna or caste is determined by his birth and is unalterable; the examples given above are the exceptions.

"veLLALar" (water - veLLam) were farmers who were probably experts in irrigation of rice fields and "kARALars" (kAR = cloud, therefore, rains) had gained some expertise in predicting the rainfall pattern; both belonged to the vaisya category at one point of time. Therefore "vELAn cheTTi" may not have been really a change of varna but only a sub-caste within vELAn, a farmer with certain typical land right over his cultivated lands, like அரையன், பேரையன், உடையான், நாடாழ்வன், மூவேந்த வேளான், etc. (???????? ?????? - ??????? ??????????????? ????????????????...).

You need not take Shri Nara's or my opinion in the matter and make your own research into the question. If you find that we are wrong kindly let us know.

 

[sarang]

Definitely Ph D material if a thesis is written and submitted to JNU or any dravidian university. Looting and raping - was it a universal practice or exceptions. I am sure enough supporting material is available or is this just gas.

Migration to other varnas was a reality, at least as exceptions. There was no need for mass migrations as everyone was proud of his varna, kula and jati. All lived happily, doing what he was good at and what he wanted. Our forefathers had better ways to resolve conflicts, relying on scriptures, or scriptures interpreted by the illuminated or by local elders.

All these wars included rape, plunder and carrying away of the loot which included maidens also. Many of the old kingdoms did not have "standing armies", meaning soldiers on a regular pay and in army barracks. At least this was the practice in most of south India. Even in Tamil Nadu, when the king declared war, the fact was announced throughout the land and all able-bodied men (excluding brahmins, of course) were conscripted. If these soldiers returned from the war victorious, they could usually keep all that each of them had looted from the enemy territory and also any cattle & maiden whom he had carried, subject, of course, to first charge of the king and the army commander/s.

Hence, it will be observed that there used to be "varna samkara" (as Arjuna fears in BG) in many instances of the common population but climbing up the varna vyavastha was not possible; it was mostly one of going down the ladder.

The "king" irrespective of the caste/varna to which he originally belonged (before acquiring his first small kingdom) usually acquired the "kshatriya" status with the patronage of brahmins. I have read that even the Naiks of Madurai thus got a kshatriya lineage from king Mahabali or someone.

Therefore, the general rule in Hinduism has been that one's varna or caste is determined by his birth and is unalterable; the examples given above are the exceptions.

"veLLALar" (water - veLLam) were farmers who were probably experts in irrigation of rice fields and "kARALars" (kAR = cloud, therefore, rains) had gained some expertise in predicting the rainfall pattern; both belonged to the vaisya category at one point of time. Therefore "vELAn cheTTi" may not have been really a change of varna but only a sub-caste within vELAn, a farmer with certain typical land right over his cultivated lands, like அரையன், பேரையன், உடையான், நாடாழ்வன், மூவேந்த வேளான், etc. (???????? ?????? - ??????? ??????????????? ????????????????...).

You need not take Shri Nara's or my opinion in the matter and make your own research into the question. If you find that we are wrong kindly let us know.

 

[sangom]

At least one section may be reserved for the sangom and et alii and et aliae and et alia for venting their pent up anger, frustration, hate, and incapacity to destroy brahmana community; with no entry for others for keeping pat-hate harmony.

There are thousand things which cannot be reached or understood or proved by low level logic of the west or by the so called 'unscientific' attribute. Misrepresentation and twisting of history started by anglo historians is treated as gospel and carried on their heads.

Dear Shri Sarang,

I am rather pained to see such a post (the words, the tone, the innuendos, etc.) from a person like you.

In particular I refer to the portion "for venting their pent up anger, frustration, hate, and incapacity to destroy brahmana community". Do you honestly think that you and those of your ilk here, in this forum, are really safeguarding the brahmana community or rejuvenating it by means of your different antics here?

Again, have you seen any one of your "aliaae" members advocating that brahmana community should be destroyed? In any case, our community is shrinking and perhaps Shri Kunjuppu was the first to bring this to the attention of this forum. Our tabra girls, despite the presence of 'hard core' people like yourself, are becoming wiser, they see through the hypocrisy and, perhaps as a form of silent protest, these girls choose a NB boy once they become financially independent of their parents. It is not easy to counter this trend, and least possible to do by raining "fire & brimstones" here in an internet forum.

Coming to actions on the community/social front, our performance to salvage the situation is dismal. I and my like-minded friends are trying, to the best of our ability, to bring this abysmal state of affairs to the readers of our posts. If it looks like destroying brahmanans to you, then I will conclude that it is just unfortunate and that a species marked for extinction by Nature itself, will do everything in its ability to completely vanish as soon as possible.

 

[Vaagmi]

Post #593:

Coming to actions on the community/social front, our performance to salvage the situation is dismal. I and my like-minded friends are trying, to the best of our ability, to bring this abysmal state of affairs to the readers of our posts. If it looks like destroying brahmanans to you, then I will conclude that it is just unfortunate and that a species marked for extinction by Nature itself, will do everything in its ability to completely vanish as soon as possible.

If you are sincere about helping someone who is not well, you suggest a remedy or recommend a doctor whom you know or take him to the hospital. You do not push him out over his balcony to hurtle down 7 floors.

You and your like minded friends recommend IC/IR marriages as the quick fix solution to the paucity of suitable girls for boys. Think about it whether this is the solution to the problem.

First stop this attack of brahmins who are down as a community. Then your suggestions and ideas will be given due respect and listened to.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu,

What was the real reason for which this venkat and swami left? Is it such an atomic secret that it cannot be revealed here. If so please let me know by PM. I am curious. Thanks.

dear vaagmi,

i dont think you know them as you joined only in june 2013. or are you an old member with a new moniker?

 

[Vaagmi]

dear vaagmi,

i dont think you know them as you joined only in june 2013. or are you an old member with a new moniker?

Dear Kunjuppu,

I am a new member alright. But I have been a visitor to this forum for a long time -ever since a friend introduced me to this. But pray let me know whether I become ineligible to know that secret because I am a newbie? Dont you think a newbie should know that secret so that he avoids a situation like that which ends up in his getting out as they did. Thanks.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu,

I am a new member alright. But I have been a visitor to this forum for a long time -ever since a friend introduced me to this. But pray let me know whether I become ineligible to know that secret because I am a newbie? Dont you think a newbie should know that secret so that he avoids a situation like that which ends up in his getting out as they did. Thanks.

thanks vaagmi.

i think a lot of water has flown by the bridge since those days of sarma/venkataraman. let sleeping dogs just remain sleeping

 

[C RAVI]

thanks vaagmi.

i think a lot of water has flown by the bridge since those days of sarma/venkataraman. let sleeping dogs just remain sleeping

Shri Kunjuppu, I should appreciate your tactical reply

The reason that I have highlighted in my post no.572 is the one and the only one, around which many other events were revolving and brought out the outcome.

 

[kunjuppu]

Shri Kunjuppu, I should appreciate your tactical reply

The reason that I have highlighted in my post no.572 is the one and the only one, around which many other events were revolving and brought out the outcome.

conflicting business interests. or rather divergence of business interests. + ego?

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom,

I take exception to the use of language made by you. So this rejoinder.

Have I written anything on IC/IR marriages? If in your old age you cannot remember who wrote what at least use your usual vazha vazha kozha kozha language by using words like perhaps, may be, it is my considered opinion, some think that, it is also possible etc. and keep an escape route for yourselves.

Do not presume yourselves to be a king cobra and that others would be wary of your venom always.

Dear Shri Zebra,

I am sorry if the inclusion of your name has hurt you, and I apologize. In a longish thread like this one, it is not possible for me to sift through all contributors and exclude those who have been silent/non-committal, etc. But going by the total interactions in this forum ever since I joined the forum, I have found that your views are closer to those expressed by some others whose names I have written already. This assessment is purely mine and you are free to differ. Hence I included your name also.

I have never had any pretensions of being a king or cobra or king cobra but I can somewhat correctly (again vvkk!) identify one if spotted even at some distance. I was wary of the venom of one and I wish there are not many more here.