Hinduism Vs Rest

[NARAS]

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N. Suresh, Sir,

Again your arguments do not follow logic on the Vegetarianism issue as well as the Gothra issue.

1. It is well documented that the ORIGINAL brahmins consumed meat as well as consumed an alcoholic drink called 'Soma' when they performed Yagna. Vegetarianism came later, I suspect because of the link found between 'bad' meat and nasty diseases in the hot climate of India (without refrigeration) and the empirical thesis that the 'Sattvic' guna increases by not eating the animal protein (as well as other vegetarian stuff like Garlic and Onions). There is a Tamil saying "Konna Pavam, Thinna Potchu", meaning that the sin of killing is washed away if you eat the animal. This is why, several cultures while eating meat, offer a prayer to thank the dead animal. When one kills an animal for food, it is not viewed as 'sin' in most religions. Since we have our body system made to digest meat (in fact made to need the nutrients that the meat and fish provide, starting from the design of our teeth), we can conclude that we are made to eat meat. Cruelty to an animal is not when you kill them for food. Cruelty is when you see so many unproductive and unwanted animals abandoned by their masters, who live by the road side eatink plastic garbage and then die of uncared for indifference, as you see all over in India today.

2. You are wrong about the 'Gothras'. If you ask any Kshatria and Vaishnava, if they understand their lineage, they will tell you their Gothras. This tells you why the 'Varnas' were not fixed by birth. Please get your facts straight before enlarging and underscoring your statements in Jumbo red!

Brahmins are by conduct, not by birth. I challenge you to show me a 'Brahmin' as envisioned by our scriptures, I will show you that by inference, most of us are not 'Brahmins'. In fact, by just the fact you are posting here tells me that you are not one, as the REAL BRAHMIN would not have time to even look at Internet!

Pranams,
KRS

sir - why does it disturb you if my postings are in red? do i not have the freedom to choose any color i like???

there is nothing called 'original' bramins! braminism has not changed even an inch and will not change. brahminism is the only vegetariain religion, inthe world apart from jainism. leave alone meat, orthodox bramins consider even garlic & onions as untouchable. so to say that bramins consumed meat & alcohol is laughable. bramins may have used alcohol for medicinal purposes, but certainly not drinking! if bramins were non veggies , then how did luntouchability originate? mahatma gandhi has said in his book WHAT IS HINDU DHARMA that it was only because non bramins consume meat that bramins consider them untouchable.

your definition of 'cruelty' is moral. legally killing or injuring animals for their flesh and skin is considered cruelty in india as per prevention of cruelty to animals act 1960. . our body is not made to eat meat, only to eat vegetarian food. by this logic, you can even argue that our body system is made to drink alcohol & smoke cigarettes!!!

do non bramins have any of following kothrams which bramins have - srivatsa, bharathwaja, koundinya & kousirage. pls. answer!!

a person can be a bramin only by birth. or a non bramin women, if she marries a bramin, becomes a bramin herself. a person born to a bramin father, even if the mother is a non bramin, is also a bramin. there is no way a person born in some other caste or religion can convert himself as a bramin!

i have told that i am not an orthodox bramin,but a bramin having lot of respect for & orthodox brahminism. i dont think surfing internet has any connection with being a bramin. brahminism restricts consuming animal flesh, alcohol and the likes. it also emphasis on many values bordering on morality. internet surfing has not connection whatsoever with being a bramin or non bramin!!!!

 

[NARAS]

KRS sir,
I have seen a BRAHMANA.Because you have not seen a real brahmana,does not mean such persons do not exist.Though i agree they are an endangered species in the modern world.
Also,i think the human body is more suited for vegetarianism.

Suresh sir,
i think we should move on.

sir - yes. i also think we should move on. but if somebody pulls you back, what to do?? you go back a few steps back and come forward again! that is what is happening in this case also!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - an online forum has many advantages. but the biggest disadvantage is that you do not get to know the background of members with whom you are communicating. for e.g. in *******, only bramins can become members. but in this form not only non bramins, even anti bramins can become members and abuse the real bramins as 'absolute idiots' writing what they call as 'boring' 'repetitive' 'weird' & 'regressive' thoughts!!! what then is the solution? nothing! i think we have to tolerate this anti bramin + non bramin onslaught!!!

take my case as an example. i joined this forum only in the hope that i can learn new things about brahminism. but since july 2006 till date, I HAVE NOT LEARNT EVEN A SINGLE THING ABOUT BRAHMINISM FROM ANYBODY IN THIS FORUM .(though there has been some useful information about issues not connected with brahminism). this remains my biggest disappointment. a view was expressed inthis forum itself that ******* is not as active as it
SHOULD be. but this forum, it seems is very active- in propagating anti bramin ideas!!! one member says vedic religion sanctioned prostitution! another member says bramin men are perverts! yet another member 'discovers' that bramins were originally meat eaters!!! where is this forum heading for????

 

[rxrajamo]

Let us stop this Veggie/Non-Veggie topic please!

Suresh Sir

You are contradicting yourself in the same post. On one hand you say Indian constitution does not ban comsumption of meat and on the other you say constitution mandates every Indian to be a vegetarian.

BTW, regarding your statement of " a person can be a brahmin only by birth", is wrong. Varnas were not fixed at birth atleast in olden days. You seem to conveniently forget the fact that Vishwamitra was a king and Kshatriya before he became a great sage. So if we follow your statement all those belonging to the Koushika Kothra (I believe a significant portion of the Brahmin community) are not Brahmins.

Why dont we put a stop to the Veggie/Non-Veggie discussion and move on ? We all appreciate your views on Vegeterianism. But let us not try to force our views on others.


IMHO, the acid test for being a Brahmin or not in today's scenario does not lie in what you eat; but what you do to help your fellow community members.

Over and out.

Ramki

 

[lotus_quartz]

My reference to the eating habits of vedic period brahmans was only academic in nature and a simple reproduction of research done by some one else. This did not propose to propogate non-vegetarianism.

Some times, we start drawing a mental picture of any person based on his thoughts and feelings. However, I submit that this alone is insufficient evidence for drawing conclusions about anyone's background. It matters little whether the response is from B or NB , FC or BC. Each argument and each response should be tested only on grounds of reason and logic.

We all have decided to go public through this forum to propogate our views. In doing so, let's be prepared to expect some praise and a lot more criticism.

I pray that lord almighty give us the strength to take every thing in the right spirit and move on.

yet another member 'discovers' that bramins were originally meat eaters!!! where is this forum heading for????

 

[KRS]

KRS sir,
I have seen a BRAHMANA.Because you have not seen a real brahmana,does not mean such persons do not exist.Though i agree they are an endangered species in the modern world.
Also,i think the human body is more suited for vegetarianism.

Suresh sir,
i think we should move on.

Dear Pappan Sir,

I said "MOST OF US ARE NOT BRAHMINS" if judged by what our scriptures said. I did not say that there are no Brahmanas left!

If you think that the human body is more suited for vegetarianism, may I ask you to lay out logically why would you think that? I am asking this sincerely as all the research pertaining to our anatomy (canine teeth, size of intestines, digestive juices produced in the stomach etc.) clearly point out to an original design suited to eat meat. In addition, if you think about the history of the human beings, where we were mainly hunters/gatherers (grain farming and animal domestication came much, much later) it stands to reason that to get the protein during those days, one needed to eat meat.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Dear N. Suresh Sir,

If you read Rg Veda and the epics, it has clearly been cited that when a 'Yajna' (ritual sacrifice - both horse and cow are mentioned) is performed, EVERYONE partook in eating the meat. 'Soma' is a juice from a plant that gave you hallugenesic effects (probably fermented). Priests liberally drank this on a daily basis.

Saraswath Brahmins, Kashmiri Pandits, Bengali Brahmins and even some Kerala Brahmins do not consider eating meat and/or fish a sin. The idea of vegetarianism came from Budhism and Jainism and most researchers find that before this period, there are ample instances to find that ALL in India ate meat.

Being a Vegetarian is a personal choice (same as drinking and/or smoking) and a habit and as such does not have any 'moral' value attached to it.

Pranams,
KRS

Pranams,
KRS

 

[silverfox]

Ok, guys! I couldn't resist jumping into this debate: Here is an extract on "whether humans were created as meat-eaters". The correct answer is: Humans are omnivores. Read on:

...................Now then, let us reason like gentlemen. There are some intelligent arguments for vegetarianism, but claiming that man is "naturally" herbivorous isn't one of them. The settled judgment of science is that man is an omnivore, capable of eating both meat and vegetables, much as certain four-year-olds might like to convince their mothers otherwise.

Like the hard-core carnivores, we have fairly simple digestive systems well suited to the consumption of animal protein, which breaks down quickly. Contrary to what your magazine article says, the human small intestine, at 23 feet, is a little under eight times body length (assuming a mouth-to-anus "body length" of three feet). This is about midway between cats (three times body length), dogs (3-1/2 times), and other well-known meat eaters on the one hand and plant eaters such as cattle (20 to 1) and horses (12 to 1) on the other. This tends to support the idea that we are omnivores.

Herbivores also have a variety of specialized digestive organs capable of breaking down cellulose, the main component of plant tissue. Humans find cellulose totally indigestible, and even plant eaters have to take their time with it. If you were a ruminant (cud eater), for instance, you might have a stomach with four compartments, enabling you to cough up last night's alfalfa and chew on it all over again.

Or you might have an enlarged cecum, a sac attached to the intestines, where rabbits and such store food until their intestinal bacteria have time to do their stuff. Digestion in such cases takes place by a process of fermentation--bacteria actually "eat" the cellulose and the host animal consumes what results, namely bacteria dung.

The story is roughly the same with teeth. We're equipped with an all-purpose set of ivories equally suited to liver and onions.

Good thing, too. I won't claim meat is the ideal source of protein, but on the whole it's better than plants. Sure, soybeans and other products of modern agriculture are pretty nutritious. But in the wild, much of the plant menu consists of leaves and stems, which are low in food value. True herbivores have to spend much of the day scrounging for snacks just to keep their strength up.

So make no mistake: we were born to eat meat. That's not to say you have to. There's no question that strictly from a health standpoint we'd all be a lot better off eating less meat (red meat especially) and more fruits and vegetables. But vegetarians aren't going to advance their cause by making ridiculous claims.
If you want more info, go to: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_087.html

 

[KRS]

Dear SilverFox Ji,

Thank you for illuminating my point. I hope you are having a great time in Chennai.

Dear N. Suresh Ji,

I just noticed that I did not clarify my statement about saying that 'you are not a true Brahmin, as you are in this Forum'. Nothing to do with Internet surfing.

But a lot to do with a code of conduct established for a Brahmin, in our scriptures. A Brahmin's day started before dawn and all through the day he is to be busy doing prayers and homas, depending on the time of the day. He is not supposed to make money. His world of thought and action is for the heavens, not for the earth.

Most of us, who call ourselves 'Brahmins' are doing the 'dharmas' prescribed for other Varnas, nowadays. This is what I meant.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[murali]

KRS sir,
My "explanation" is this.I am a vegetarian.Brahmanas are vegetarians.Brahmanas are of Saatvik nature.so the human body is designed for vegetarian diet.This is my "scientific reasoning".

 

[kashyap]

Hinduism, vegetarianism and my Goal

My Goal is to establish a society where meritocracy rules, casteism does not exist( esp by the way of reservation), protect our scriptures and culture and make them flourish, help the needy people , protect the environment including animals.

As far as I am concerned, in the path to attaining this goal, THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS -- as lord krishna did.
In this path, vegetarianism to me ranks very low in the priority list. I really am not bothered about that. Not to say that I am a non-vegetarian. I am a vegetarian, but I decide when and whether and how to take a non-veg food and why.

 

[NARAS]

Suresh Sir

You are contradicting yourself in the same post. On one hand you say Indian constitution does not ban comsumption of meat and on the other you say constitution mandates every Indian to be a vegetarian.

BTW, regarding your statement of " a person can be a brahmin only by birth", is wrong. Varnas were not fixed at birth atleast in olden days. You seem to conveniently forget the fact that Vishwamitra was a king and Kshatriya before he became a great sage. So if we follow your statement all those belonging to the Koushika Kothra (I believe a significant portion of the Brahmin community) are not Brahmins.

Why dont we put a stop to the Veggie/Non-Veggie discussion and move on ? We all appreciate your views on Vegeterianism. But let us not try to force our views on others.


IMHO, the acid test for being a Brahmin or not in today's scenario does not lie in what you eat; but what you do to help your fellow community members.

Over and out.

Ramki

SIR - meat can be consumed even without killing or injuring any animal. i.e. after the animal dies, the flesh or skin can be extracted from the animal. indian laws do not ban this. so in that way indian law does not ban consumption of meat. but indian constitution does say that all indians should show compassion towards all living creatures. it also says all govts. in india must enforce ban on slaughter of all cattle. so in that way indian constitution does enforce vegeteranism. i do not see any contradiction here.

a person can be a bramin only by birth. i stand by my statement. this is not my personal view. this does not mean bramins are superior to non bramins. this only means bramins are DISTINCT from non bramins. remember, there is a big difference between advocating superiority and advocating distinctness. (BTW even my in laws belong to kaushika kothra!)

some other person could even argue that as long as you help your community, even if you drink or smoke it does not matter. is it fair?

i am not forcing my views on anybody. i am just emphasising.

i cannot understand to what help it will be to bramins if i stop posting about vegeteranism. the best financial help we can do to needy bramins is to form a charitable trust, collect voluntary donations from all over, and, disburse it to poor bramins. IN PARTICULAR, I THINK WE MUST CONCENTRATE ON HELPING POOR ORTHODOX PRIESTS ALL OVER T.NADU. EACH & EVERY TEMPLE IN THE WORLD HAS CUSTOMS, RITES, RITUALS UNIQUE & PECULIAR TO THAT PARTICULAR TEMPLE ALONE. TO PROTECT THIS HERITAGE, WE MUST CONTRIBUTE OUR MITE TO ORTHODOX PRIESTS ATLEAST IN T.NADU, IF NOT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

i cannot understand what you mean by 'over and out'. i do not find this sentence in good taste at all!!!!

 

[NARAS]

My Goal is to establish a society where meritocracy rules, casteism does not exist( esp by the way of reservation), protect our scriptures and culture and make them flourish, help the needy people , protect the environment including animals.

As far as I am concerned, in the path to attaining this goal, THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS -- as lord krishna did.
In this path, vegetarianism to me ranks very low in the priority list. I really am not bothered about that. Not to say that I am a non-vegetarian. I am a vegetarian, but I decide when and whether and how to take a non-veg food and why.

sir - vegeteranism to me ranks first in my priority list. alcohol abstention comes next. after that comes abstention from smoking!!!! i am sure, india would be a better place if people stop killing animals & abstain from alcohol! i am not emphasising on banning smoking because smoking is not prohibited in the constitution, whereas drinking & killing animals are banned even in constitution!

the main reason why bramins are not found in many jobs like auto drivers, taxi drivers etc., is because, these are all jobs which require the persons performing those jobs to eat substances which bramins, being pure vegetarians would not like to eat.(e.g. even onion, garlic etc.,)

There are many bramins- both males and females - who are married and are marrying non bramins - again both males and females - than ever before. the offsprings born to these intercaste couples are not100% bramin,as their surroundings are also not totally brahminic. may that is why bramins are not as orthodox today as they were once upon a time!!!

the life of a bramin is life of sacrifice. it is mainly because bramins sacrificed meat eating that they are 'bramins'. otherwise they would be non bramins. you cannot be a bramin and still eat meat. in short, you cannot have the cake, and eat it too!!!

the dmk govt. of t.nad is trying to impose non bramins as archakas even in orthodox temples, against agamas & court rules. so non bramins, on one hand claim they are 'hindus' and become priests in orthodox temples, on the other hand, outside temples, they say they are 'victims' of hinduism's caste structure and enjoy quota benefits!!!

 

[NARAS]

KRS sir,
My "explanation" is this.I am a vegetarian.Brahmanas are vegetarians.Brahmanas are of Saatvik nature.so the human body is designed for vegetarian diet.This is my "scientific reasoning".

sir - well said! in fact some 'researchers' are saying that human body is designed for meat eating! by this logic, as i have pointed out, it is very easy to argue that human body is designed to smoke and drink alcohol!!!!

another important question is - do not animals have the right to live in this world? after all animals came this planets well before humans, and as per science, even humans are descendants of animals! who gave the right to 'humans' to kill animals just to fill up their stomach? after all most of the animals have a very short life expectancy when compared with humans. where not animals also created by god? they are also going to die one day. why torture and kill these hapless creatures just for our petty pleasures???

pls. go to http://www.alternet.org/story/19913/. it is said there is no need to kill animals even for leather any more. synthetic or artificial leather called vegan leather has been discovered!

also go to http://www.ivu.org/news/march2000/hinduism.html, a person called paul turner (a foreigner?) mentioning quotes from vedas and our scriptures to prove that orthdox hinduism does not sanction meat eating. so bramin members of this forum pls. do not propagate lies about the holy vedas.

meat industry causes lot of pollution, global warming, harm to environment & ecology as has been finded out by international research. it has also been found out that vegetarian children have high IQ, and because of this many persons are turning to vegetarian diet in the west! it is also been argued that veggie animals like cows & horses drink water with lips like man, and so man is also designed to be a veggie! but non veggies animals like lion, dogs, cats drink water through tongue!so non veggies should not produce ridiculous claims to bolster their sins!! you can go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian#_note-55 to verify these findings.

of course, it is claimed man is omnivorous based on his jaws & teeth. but this claim is as absurd as saying 'a body of woman is such that she should use it for commercial purposes, which a man's body cannot be made use of'. moreover, based on the fact that animals do not have hands, whereas humans have, it can also be argued that god created hands for humans to enable them to smoke cigarette and drink alcohol, which animals cannot do!!

 

[gurumurthyji]

Do whatever you want .... teach to others....Excellent Rami Sir

Ramki Sir,

[MHO, the acid test for being a Brahmin or not in today's scenario does not lie in what you eat; but what you do to help your fellow community members.]

Oh God!! Is that so simple to be a today’s Brahmin? Do whatever you want. Go on teach to others and finally help your fellow community members? Run a web site in the name of the community….. Hello everybody … notice this beautiful mantra for Moksha. Why waste discussing unnecessarily.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[NARAS]

Dear N. Suresh Sir,

If you read Rg Veda and the epics, it has clearly been cited that when a 'Yajna' (ritual sacrifice - both horse and cow are mentioned) is performed, EVERYONE partook in eating the meat. 'Soma' is a juice from a plant that gave you hallugenesic effects (probably fermented). Priests liberally drank this on a daily basis.

Saraswath Brahmins, Kashmiri Pandits, Bengali Brahmins and even some Kerala Brahmins do not consider eating meat and/or fish a sin. The idea of vegetarianism came from Budhism and Jainism and most researchers find that before this period, there are ample instances to find that ALL in India ate meat.

Being a Vegetarian is a personal choice (same as drinking and/or smoking) and a habit and as such does not have any 'moral' value attached to it.

Pranams,
KRS

Pranams,
KRS

sir - buddhism & jainism at the most consider only meat as non vegetarian. but bramins consider even onions & garlic as untouchable. so how could bramins have consumed meat during yagnas or how could priests have consumed alcohol?

if smoking, drinking & meat eating do not have any immorality, why did founding fathers of indian constitution advocate ban on cow slaughter? why did they advocate prohibition of alcohol? why does the indian constitution advocate compassion towards all living creatures???
as per darwin theory even man originated from animals. so as per science, all of us, and even Lord vishnu, shiva, brahma, buddha, mahaveera, guru nanak, jesus, allah, prophet mohammed- all originated from monkeys! so what right do we have to kill our own forefathers and ancestors? if all hindus become vegetarians, untouchability would automatically,disappear, as meat eating is the only reason, our religion is divided into two - veggie bramins & non veggie non bramins. if all non bramins atleast stop killing or injuring animals, the division in hinduism would become lower & narrower still and finally there will be only 2 groups - priestly hindus & non priestly hindus.

i am proud to call myself as a 'secularist'. because a true secularist is one who believes that no govts. in the world should have any religion. in that way i am a 'secularist'.i also feel all persons in the world are 'atheists' & 'rationalists' in one way or the other, because no person in the world believes in any other religion, apart from his or her own!of course, the bottom line is that unlike t.nadu 'rationalists' we do not propagate our 'rationalism' !

I do not think advocating orthodox brahminism is 'extremist' . how can a tolerant ideology be propagated in an extremist way?. i do not think, in any case this forum will 'ruin' its 'good' name because of this advocation!!!! MOREOVER, AN EXTREMIST IS ONE WHO FUNCTIONS IN A CLANDESTINE MANNER, WHEREAS I HAVE OPENLY MENTIONED MY ENTIRE BACKGROUND , EXCEPT MY ADDRESS. SO HOW CAN I BE AN EXTREMIST?

pls. go to http://www.new-harvest.org/faq.htm, where it has been mentioned about possibility of producing cultured meat, i.e. meat without killing or injuring animals, in some years from now. let us hope & pray to god the research on this subject becomes successful.. may the soul of founding fathers of vegeteranism & brahminism rest in peace on hearing this!!

 

[NARAS]

Dear SilverFox Ji,

Thank you for illuminating my point. I hope you are having a great time in Chennai.

Dear N. Suresh Ji,

I just noticed that I did not clarify my statement about saying that 'you are not a true Brahmin, as you are in this Forum'. Nothing to do with Internet surfing.

But a lot to do with a code of conduct established for a Brahmin, in our scriptures. A Brahmin's day started before dawn and all through the day he is to be busy doing prayers and homas, depending on the time of the day. He is not supposed to make money. His world of thought and action is for the heavens, not for the earth.

Most of us, who call ourselves 'Brahmins' are doing the 'dharmas' prescribed for other Varnas, nowadays. This is what I meant.

Pranams,
KRS

SIR - if bramins were to go back to orthodox ways of yesteryears, then no non bramin will be allowed to enter orthodox temples. all orthodox temples should be controlled by orthodox bramins only. remember we are living in a secular democracy, not a hindu rashtra! will non bramins accept hegemony of bramins inside temples? then most of the bramins would be ready to go back to vedic era of living!

it was because orthodox temples were destroyed by islamic invaders & british barbarians that orthodox bramins left temples in search of new jobs. now these same non bramins are asking bramins to go back to temples! but where are the temples first of all for bramins to go back there? most of them have been destroyed. many other have lost their orthodoxy! so how can bramins be forced to go back to temple life?????

it is also wrong to say brahminism discriminates widows. in brahminism, even males who have lost their wives are restricted in some ways. for e.g. a relative of mine, who lost his wife, could not put his name in the invitation card for inviting others for his daughter's marriage. he was also not allowed on the stage to perform the wedding. because as per orthodox tenets, only couples can perform marriages. male or female, if your husband or wife is not alive, you are disqualified! the reason is simple. if a widow takes part in any orthodox function and blesses somebody, assume something goes wrong, then some person could blame that 'widow' saying it was only because this unlucky women took part in this function, that this untoward incident happened. so to prevent widows or widowers from being getting blamed, they are not allowed take part in orthodox function!

orthodox braminism emphasis on hygiene inside temples and during orthodox festivals, rituals etc., that is why women during their menstrual period, when they are relatively less hygiene than normal times, do not go to temples or take part in orthodox rituals or functions. the reason is as above. if they go to temples or to orthodox functions,and anything untoward happens, somebody could blame them. so they avoid temples or orthodox rituals during these times. in any case physically it will not be comfortable for them also. by and large , i have seen housewives to be very orthodox and god fearing. most of the working women do not adhere to orthodox tenets as much as housewives do. even persons who have suffered a bereavement in their families do not go to temples or rituals or functions. because in such a state, they will not be able to concentrate even if they go to temples or rituals. so they are not allowed.

unlike in other religions, when orthodox hinduism originated, there were no widows or divorces. so there is no mention in initial orthodox scriptures about how to treat widows or about divorces. so people form their own opinion based on their own understanding of these scriptures. whereas when other religions originated, widowhood , divorces were all there, and so, these religions mention about them.

 

[NARAS]

sir - it has been mentioned in this site that as on date i.e. 28 02 2007
there are 420 members (what a number!), 4631 postings, 1134 members out of whom only 128 are active! even out of this 128, only about 10-12 are regularly active! other are occassionally active! even this regular members are active in pulling the leg of one another! remember - united we stand! divided we fall! it is centuries since we fell! if we do not stand united now, we will hit rock bottom!!!

as i told already the main reason i joined this forum was to get some new ideas about brahminism. to some extent this has been fulfilled - i have got many new ideas about brahminism from members, NOT POSITIVE, BUT NEGATIVE IDEAS! for centuries orthodox bramins have been avoiding even egg, onions & garlic, but some apologists say bramins consumed even meat! in tamil, vedas are called as 'marai'. as the paramacharya has said , it is called so because the real meaning of the verses mentioned in vedas is 'hidden'. 'marai' in tamil means 'hidden'. some persons wrongly understand the vedas and come to absurd conclusions like for e.g. that animals like horses were sacrificed during vedic times.

the prevention of cruelty to animals act has not been enforced in letter & spirit in india. this is why we are able to kill & injure animals in india.

if you remove bramins, i mean orthodox bramins, what is left in orthodox hinduism? nothing!

it is being said a bramin is one who helps his community. helping fellow members of community is common for all castes. i am talking about EXCLUSIVE QUALITIES of brahminism. what is it? it is vegeteranism obviously! Vegetarian to me is a very big word, meaning not only a person who eats only vegetarian food, but also one who abstains from alcohol & smoking! nobody knows when hinduism originated. in fact nobody knows who founded orthodox hinduism, and when. if vegeteranism is of recent origin, has it been discovered when it originated and by whom? in the absence of answer to these questions, these arguments cannot be taken seriously!!!

the reason why i am repeating the same points again and again is because, some members are asking the same question again and again! if you are asked the question 'who is you father?', many times, naturally the answer will be and has to be the same each and every time! just for variety, can i give a different answer each & every time???? it is because of asking the same questions again & again that answers have to be given leading, to occupation of more 'disk' space!!

when human life originated first on earth, naturally man would have consumed meat also. but not by killing animals, only by extracting the flesh & skin of animals after they die a natural death. it was only later that the habit of killing animals originated. before being bramins, even bramins should have & could have consumed meat - but again as i said not by killing animals, but only by extracting flesh & skin of dead animals. but once a caste called 'bramins' & an ideology called 'brahminism' originated, from that day till today brahminism & orthodox bramins have always been associated with pure vegeteranism!

i suspect many members in this site should be non veggies themselves, and that is why it pricks their conscience when i propagate vegeteranism. many years ago, i was quarelling with a friend. i ridiculed him as an angry, arrogant, hasty fellow. he laughed. i said he had started developing animal qualities because of eating meat (he was a non bramin). suddenly he got more angry & asked me not to talk about meat eating. i asked him 'when i said you were angry, arrogant & hasty you did not get angry. but when i say you are a meat eater why are you getting angry?' he replied 'i knew you were wrong when you said i was angry, arrogant & hasty. so i was not upset. but what you said about meat eating is true, because i am a non veggie. so truth hurt me!' he was matured enough to admit this.!!!

There is no disclaimer clause in this forum. moderators should enter a disclaimer clause that 'THE VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS FORUM ARE PERSONAL VIEWS OF INDIVIDUALS. THE FORUM MAY NOR MAY NOT AGREE WITH THEM' instead of bemoaning that members are 'ruining' the 'good' name of this site, this disclaimer clause can be published as a safeguard. also, since this a 'tamil brahmin' forum i think another person with knowledge of both tamil & bramin culture should be appointed as administrator of this forum, so that he appreciates the views about orthodox brahminism!!

DUE TO NEW, IMPORTANT PERSONAL COMMITMENTS & WORK, I AM UNABLE TO CONTINUE MY ASSOCIATION WITH THE FORUM. PLS. BLOCK MY PASSWORD IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT UNAUTHORISED MISUSE, AS ALREADY EMAILED &INTIMATED TO YOU.

N.SURESH
06 03 2007

 

[KRS]

Dear N. Suresh Ji,

I do not understand your arguments at all!

1. Indian Constitution in Article 48, by banning the slaughter of cattle is addressing to the religious sentiments of the Hindus. Cattle, as we speak are being slughtered in India for beef and how come the Government is not enforcing the law?

2. Some brahmins do not eat onion and garlic because they believe that these increse the 'Kama' feelings of a person. The reason for not eating meat is similar - they believe that it will increase the 'rajasic' tendency. By the way, all these dietery restrictions are of relatively recent origin. Nothing to do with Vedic times. As I said, several brahmin communities still eat meat / fish.

3. Brahmin Varna was created mainly to 'serve' other Varnas in their spiritual growth and to safeguard the well being of the society. Without 'non-brahmins', there are no 'brahmins'. Once you realize this, you would agree that all the 'orthodoxy' are the codification to protect the role of the brahmins. Nothing more, nothing less. All the Shastras were written to operate the society in a particular way, within the Varna system. This system no longer exists. It is gone forever. However much you wish to reconstitute it, it ain't coming back.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[silverfox]

Hey you guys!
Look what you have done? You really got Suresh going! Now he is flooding this thread with his postings every minute!
Suresh, when you are posting your views, why are you QUOTING your own previous posting. It is repetitive and wastes space.

I think I can copy my friend, Ramki's words, which says it all.
IMHO, the acid test for being a Brahmin or not in today's scenario does not lie in what you eat; but what you do to help your fellow community members.
Over and out.

"Over and Out" is a common sign-off word in the US; there is no 'taste' to it! Chill out, Suresh!!

In my opinion, Suresh personifies the very same 'rationalists' and 'secularists' who are extremists - I am afraid Suresh is ruining the good name of this site and his words might land us all in trouble with undesirable elements, who are waiting for a chance to do something bad.

 

[KRS]

Dear Silverfox Ji,

I think, I am for one is getting Sri Suresh Ji going! I think I have expressed my views on the topic adequately and so will refrain from commenting / responding further on this topic.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[kashyap]

I second this! This should be a preamble for us

Hey you guys!
I think I can copy my friend, Ramki's words, which says it all.
IMHO, the acid test for being a Brahmin or not in today's scenario does not lie in what you eat; but what you do to help your fellow community members.

Silverfox what you said ( quoted) should be our preamble.

In today's world, a brahmin needs to imbibe the good things (not the bad things) from :
kshatriyatva ( able to defend)
a vysyatva ( able to create and handle wealth)
as well as a shudratva ( able to work hard)

so that he can be a brahmin (ability to seek knowledge) .

This is the only way to preserve our culture and spiritual knowledge

 

[mrifan]

Where is Mr. N.Suresh?

What happened to Mr. Suresh?

 

[lotus_quartz]

Exactly my worry, as well. Has he taken a sabbatical?

What happened to Mr. Suresh?

 

[NARAS]

DUE TO NEW, IMPORTANT PERSONAL COMMITMENTS & WORK, I AM UNABLE TO CONTINUE MY ASSOCIATION WITH THE FORUM. PLS. BLOCK MY PASSWORD IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT UNAUTHORISED MISUSE, AS ALREADY EMAILED &INTIMATED TO YOU.

N.SURESH
06 03 2007

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