EV Ramasamy Naicker's hypocracy

[s007bala]

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dhoomil

Why are we getting into the personal lives of one person and wasting time in a EVR thread. Ok, I get the point. MuKa is not a atheist inside. It pleases me to hear that. Anyone can shed more light about whether EVR himself had a different inside or not ?

Shri Indian

Shri Mu Ka is "Jing Chak" or "Jaalra " of EVR.Kizha bolt EVR had the audacity to wed/ or sleep around with a 16 years old girl or some very young aged girl at the ripe old age of 70+.EVR kku "Nikkumo Nikkado" in that stage he did this atrocity.Annadurai got mad.Only Jaalra Mu Ka is continuing this horrendous role model of EVR.Now Shri Mu Ka itself is in a stage of "Nikkumo Nikkado".....venda swami..porum.

EVR used to speak Kannadiga at his home.Even today some Vellalar Caste speak telegu at home like Naidus of Coimbatore.But outside in society fluent Tamil.

sb

 

[kunjuppu]

sb,

please treat this post as a feedback, and not a critique.

i think, it is better to treat periyar, that in addition to giving the vast majority of tamil groups, a fillip to self confidence, was also instrumental in the downfall of the overwhelming predominance of the tamil brahmins in the governing bureaucracy of tamil nadu.

there can be (& have been) innumerable debates about the 'honour' of periyar, of which, you have posted some here. to be candid, it talks about you and not much about periyar.

sir, if you don't mind me saying so, i detect a blind anger and hatred in your post. maybe i am wrong. but if it be so, we are dealing from a point of weakness, for with the lash of anger, we put aside the power of rationality and logic. don't you think that the latter anyday is a better tool than the former?

personally, i have gone through that route before (i am 58 years old) and with the passage of time, i have come to realize, that there are events over which we have no control.

it is upto us, as individuals, or communities, to be perceptive of the winds of change blowing around us and ensure to take sufficient actions not only to protect ourselves, but to thrive in the face of adversity.

on the whole, i think, we tamil brahmins have been behaving like the proverbial river, ie constantly changing the direction of the flow when encountering hinderances.

this gives us one up point over besieged communities of yore - ie the parsis of persia in the face of islamic conquest or jews during hitler. in both cases, the results were disastrous for the subjects.

while i hope for a better turn of events for the future for tamil brahmins i cannot but observe some developments based on the history of india

- till the early 20th century, tamil brahmins, were tamils first and then brahmins, to the best of my knowledge.
- there was an acceptance of them as one of the tamil groups
- since independence, we have cast our lot, with a 'mythical' north, which increasingly is evad/avoid(ing) us as an unwanted albatross
- in the worst case scenario, should there be a breakup of india, our status in tamil nadu can be disastrous - we could either turn into hostages or evicted or worse till pogromized
- this above scenario, which i hope never happens, is all the more possible, considering how easily passions are inflamed these days, and the murder of a group considered 'not one of us' is easier done than said

i think, to sum up, we need as a community, to introspect somewhat frankly, and reinvent ourself as part of the tamil tribe if we are to find a place, once again, in tamil nadu.

please read this, more as a thought processfrom a concerned participant, rather than a critique of our community. i think, we need to step through our alternatives and somewhat rationally come up with solutions that would benefit us.

the nadars did this with kamaraj. the vanniyars appear to be doing this with dr. ramadoss. it is always a wonder, that we, who claim so much ownership of 'knowledge' appear to lack the wherewithal to maneuver our supposed chanakyan heritage to a better placement in current day tamil culture.

has it always has to be all or nothing for us?

thank you.

 

[happyhindu]

AnjanKumar,

Abt Ilangovan and Karunanidhi, it is understood that in the game of politics, nobody is nobody's friend. A case in point wud be Stalin versus Azhagiri. Then there was this fight b/w Karunanidhi and the Marans with Dayanidhi Maran removed as union minister - his daughter Selvi had then attempted suicide: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Married-to-Marans,-TN-CM-daughter%92s-%91suicide-attempt%92/335182/

These stories go on and there is no saying how much is true or not. Abt EVR's tamil fanatism part, am still confused, since one section of the telugu folk maintain that they did not share EVR's love of tamil - according to them, all languages have their inherent beauty and there was no need for evr to promote tamil as the be it and all of everything. So, each grouping seems to have its own perspective, its own way of looking at things.

S-Bala-ji,

i do not know if EVR spoke Kannada at home. They were telugu people - this am sure. But the folk in southern karnatak regions speak both kannada and a pigdin form of telugu. They consider themselves as kannada people originally but telugu in language and habits bcoz they got mixed with telugu people during vijayanagar times (i dunno if this is some new theory bcoz of late there is this new found kannada fanatism and such ppl mayb feeling the pressure to show themselves as ppl of kannada origin).

And we dunno if he did sleep with the young-girl - am not finding it nice to dig into someone's personal life to this extent (am regretting my comments on karunanidhi's harem) - after his first wife lost a baby, he had no interest in having more children or leading a 'family life' - this much is known.

The telugu ppl that went against or did not agree with Evr, did so for a myriad reasons, one - they did not agree with his brand of atheisim (an odd sort that largely spared Shiva, Murugan, Ganesha, Parvati, Amman but targetted only Rama and Krishna). Two - they were not oppressed by brahmins and found no reason to agree with his anti-brahmin ideas. Three - they agreed that the poor were oppressed by all wealthier classes but did not see how anti-brahmanism cud help solve inequality. Four - they did not think telugu was a 'form of tamil' as propagated by EVR. Five - they did not oppose india's freedom from the british, on the contrary they vociferously supported Gandhi's freedom call. Six - no hindu wud have agreed to the idol defiling sprees as evr's goons did (thankgod for Rajaji's influence on EVR or it cud hv bn worse i heard).

Regards.

 

[hariharan1972]

EVR was a kannadiga please. Neither tamil or telugu.

That apart, it cannot be refuted that EVR has left an indelible mark in the TN political arena.

First things first.

I dont like to address him as 'Periyar' and wouldnt like anyone in this forum to address him so. Not because of any 'casteist undertones' but i strongly believe he doesnt deserve it.

'Periyar' is a tamil honorofic, i believe has to be reserved for the truly great. Just as we dont peddle in Bharat Ratnas or the Nobels, we need to have exacting standards before honouring someone.

It is a fact that Ramasamy Naicker deserves a place under the 'Socialist sun'. I am of the view that the priestly class of the yesteryears didnt realise the 'impracticality' of religious domination by a micro-minority and denying the masses their religious due.

To this extent, EVR's "methods" of shocking the brahmins into realization was right. But where EVR tumbled down the ladder of mediocrity and became utterly crass is when he 'continued his methods' forever.

EVR's pitiable educational standards perhaps didnt permit him to think of a 'positive way of social revolution'. Here is where Ramanujar and a Vivekananda and a Gandhi scored. These men are truly the 'Periyars'.

EVR couldnt carry the system along with him. Instead he abused the system. Here is where he lacked clairvoyance and created a 'system of hatred' which continues even today in the form of the Dravidian system.

EVR 'created fault lines' between the communities. As a response to what was essentially a strict and admittedly an incorrect interpretation of the varna system he created a permanent fissure in the Hindu society by creating the Dravidian-Aryan theory.

EVR was a political coward. He masked his lack of political courage by morphing his movement into a social movement. He was forced to do that because he was truly not interested in a social revolution but only wanted to replace the brahmins with OBCs at the top of the totem pole.

EVR's disregard for the truly downtrodden is well documented in history.

EVR's shock value apart, he was as opportunistic as one possibly can be and deserves no reverence.

Love him or Loathe him, the fact that he shook the system cannot be denied and the fact that he failed in integrating the system is also well established.

EVR was just too human to deserve anything more.

 

[happyhindu]

Hariharan-ji,

Just 2 things:

If EVR had wanted to replace brahmins with OBCs at the top of the totem pole, he wud have ensured his own lot (the balijas) came under the reservations category (or so i wud like to think). I do not think i will ever be able to understand his sense or way of levelling the ground...

On the last sentence: I think EVR was too much less of a human. Humans cannot go on hating forever...

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Shri Indian

Shri Mu Ka is "Jing Chak" or "Jaalra " of EVR.Kizha bolt EVR had the audacity to wed/ or sleep around with a 16 years old girl or some very young aged girl at the ripe old age of 70+.EVR kku "Nikkumo Nikkado" in that stage he did this atrocity.Annadurai got mad.Only Jaalra Mu Ka is continuing this horrendous role model of EVR.Now Shri Mu Ka itself is in a stage of "Nikkumo Nikkado".....venda swami..porum.

EVR used to speak Kannadiga at his home.Even today some Vellalar Caste speak telegu at home like Naidus of Coimbatore.But outside in society fluent Tamil.

sb

Cool... I just learnt two japanese words... "Nikkumo Nikkado"... :bolt:

 

[Jaagratha]

Though it makes sense when talking anything about a person's personal life is not very good, think of the atrocities and filthy talks he has uttered about a whole community. He has been given a wrong name as Periyar, as a gentleman said here. The other blind followers are even more sharp in their pagutharivu. They made him 'Thandhai Periyar' or Father Periyar. It is a shame.

He did not worry about Gods, but his hatred was on Brahmins. That is why, he used only a few god's name and didn't mention most. But in every conversation (an adhi-medhavi comment of this man below), he ensured that Brahmins are bashed.

EVR: English is a much better language in Tamil, know why?

Someone: Why sir?

EVR: In English, you can scold a person only to a level, like scoundrel or bastard etc. But think of Tamil! There are vasavugal which you could not hear at all!!

LOL.

 

[s007bala]

point

Shri Kunjuppu

Your point is well taken.That is why our intelligent Tamizh leaders named the state as, Tamizh Naadu.aka Tamizh Country.

I may write what i have written,but there is no malice or anger of hatred.It's an anger of love,for the people i respect,and did debaucherous things in the past and continue to do debaucherous things,in the name of caste.Sir,verbal intimidation is as cruel as physical intimidation.

When Brahmin girls came to me and told,how they were harassed,i used to tell them plz,register a complaint first.Nobody listened.Today,goondaism is the rule of law.Our leaders are goondas and a mafia gang leaders.With impunity and scant regard,normal decent rules of governance are violated.

I thank Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba,Mahaswamigal,Ammachi...scores of saints,for allowing me to migrate from Tamil Nadu.I was personally not touched because of certain reason.But not so the case with my wife & children.Ennakku Vara Kopathirkku Karanam,plz understand.

>>sir, if you don't mind me saying so, i detect a blind anger and hatred in your post. maybe i am wrong. but if it be so, we are dealing from a point of weakness, for with the lash of anger, we put aside the power of rationality and logic. don't you think that the latter anyday is a better tool than the former?<<

Sir,what i call this is Professional Arrogance.For a self-respecting person,one should have this trait.Maybe Lord Parashu-Rama's Raktham is still embedded in me,who knows.

I am sorry,if i have offended you or anybody else,if i have given vent to my feelings so openly.

sb

 

[kunjuppu]

sb,

no offence taken. hopefully no offence meant. even more hopefully no offence misunderstood by you.

i can understand your anger. personally, i have had only good experiences in the erstwhile madras of 60s & 70s, both personally and academicwise.

that does not mean that brahmins did not have bad experiences. personally, i think, that personal animosity, contributed as much to these harassment as hatred towards our community.

you are correct about the goonda raj. i have been out of india since 1973 and till the advent of internet, was out of touch with the developments there.

my own brother in law, has successfully, moved his two daughters out of india, as his prognosis for law and order in india, is that goonda raj will rule very soon. personally, i wish for something better.

again, with the rise of goonda raj, we can find the rise of little hitlers with their own control area. we are already seeing the rise of raj thackeray in mumbai with an ever so narrow agenda. it can happen in other states too.

oh well!!

 

[happyhindu]

S-Bala-ji,

Please do not single out brahmin girls only.....all girls are in some form or the other harassed out there....there are worse cases..

 

[anjankumar]

Dear Mr Hari

Yes I agree with you that EVR has to be referred to as EVR, Karunanithi referred to as Karunanithi and Jayalalithaa referred to as Jayalalithaa. All the revered titles have been given by their respective followers and they dont deserve to be referred by those titles by the whole world!

In any case, EVR single-handedly brought down the quality of public meetings by using "unparliamentary" depletives out in the open with no holds barred. For that singular contribution to the denigration in the society, culture and values, he deserves to be referred to as 'சிறியார்' "siRiyAr'.

When I say this his followers won't 'சிரியார்' that is they "won't be amused"

What do I care as they are not in any way 'சீரியார்' ie, they are not so great people for me to care about their amusement or being pleased!

Dear Mr s007bala

Brahmins do have a heritage to be proud of. That heritage and culture donot permit using foul language any where and that too out in the open. Why should you stoop to the level of 'சிறியார்' .

There are certain "do's" and "don'ts".

We don't earn as much sin when we don't do the "do's" as when we do the "don'ts"

 

[s007bala]

i agree

Shri H H

I stand corrected.I agree women have been so much ill-treated,including me for my wretched behaviour,that i started doing prayaschittam to rectify it.So,my better half,is my Devi aka wife aka thaai kulam ;as Ramakrishna Paramahamsa did.Only thing Shri Ramakrishna Pramahamsa was an embodiment of Lord Shiva,i am prolly an embodiment of Lord Nandieswaran basically a Kalai Maadu aka Bull.So,pardon my bullshitting now & then.

Take for instance,Lord Ganesh episode.Amman Shakthi created Lord Ganesha all by herself with her Iccha Shakthi.So,originally Lord Ganesh did not have a 'Elephant' head at all.But so subtly,Male Chauvinistic Pigs of ancient era's aka Lord Shiva,subtly by yielding to Amman Shakthi,replaced Lord Ganesha's head with an Elephant's head,spiritual surgery of an pachyderm with a Iccha Shakthi of Amman's creation.

But for generation generation together,Santhana Dharma,followers,subtly use the changed version of the Vigraha only.And also made Lord Ganesha,the Mudhal Deivam,for worship,and honored him with a title of remover of obstacles.

Just see the sheer subtle manipulation of minds of people to prove or keep that hold Man is superior to woman.According to me thats bullshit.Both are equal.Ammachi says it beautifully.Man & Woman are like the wings of the birds.Both are needed and are equal in every way.From time to time,power sharing changes,that is all.

In fact,i was rooting for Hillary as President.But BHO ( Barrack Hussein Obama ) just roared like a lion and captivated everybody's hearts.At least he has won my heart.So,i pray for him to be a winner as long as he can.

Anyways Shakthium Shivamum onru.A la ardhanarieswarar...thats a different topic altogether..

sb

 

[s007bala]

well

Shri Anjan Kumar

Mullai Mullal Edukkanum.EVR corrupted Shri Mu Ka's mind and many such Tamilians.I have already written how Dharmas got annagramed to Madhras by Brits,same way Brahmaa got anagrammed to Abraham.Even in Bhagavth Gita,Lord Krishna,tells the size of a soul in a human being, with comparison to a single hair follicles end,and dividing it million time.Please do not mis-understand 'Mairu' concept.Its required for humans.

sb

 

[s007bala]

Kannadiga

Shri Hariharan

>>EVR was just too human to deserve anything more.<<

Masterpiece line.Just because some nutcase treated him badly while serving food in Benares,why Tamil Brahmin's were targeted?Shouldn't he have settled in Benares,did exactly what he did in TN and earned himself a place in the hearts of people?( EVR )

Instead Pappan/Pappathi were/are chosen as soft targets.WHY?Because he knew North Indian Brahmin's would have killed him physically.In my view EVR is a coward,a rascal,a rogue of the nth order.Poor Shri Mu Ka with his nitwit brains got corrupted by EVR,and went on un-holy spree sowing his seeds.

I think Mysore Maharaja Wodeyar's family as well as KGB is behind,the Communist propanganda in TN.One of the worst dogmas to ever have happened on earth,is communism.So,a Kannadiga was sent as spy in Tamil population to create chaos.See,even now like dingbats Kaveri water is disputed,when all rivers in India should have integrated to provide water to entire population?Some terrific leaders despite 61 years of Independance,my foot.

sb

 

[s007bala]

personal

Shri H H

>>And we dunno if he did sleep with the young-girl - am not finding it nice to dig into someone's personal life to this extent (am regretting my comments on karunanidhi's harem) - after his first wife lost a baby, he had no interest in having more children or leading a 'family life' - this much is known.<<

Ya,i agree.I think i better stop writing about EVR and Shri Mu Ka.At least they did something.What have i done?Nothing.Zilch.Nada.So,chumma like a paper tiger i should stop growling.And that too so far away removed,god know some lattu Kazhagam goons might even attack un-suspecting friends,relatives of mine...its just that my anger is out of love for the people not just TN,even here for Americans.In the last ten years,i have seen public life of leaders tank down the tube.In fact i am sickened by some of the actions.But i am just a mute spectator,unable to influence minds of people as usual.Anyways...thnx for pointing out for getting toooooo personal about EVR.As if people did not know already,despite that,this his jatakam,lol.

sb

 

[s007bala]

Touche

Cool... I just learnt two japanese words... "Nikkumo Nikkado"... :bolt:

Shri Seshadri

Touche.

sb

 

[pannvalan]

Happy Hindu,

I stand by my earlier word that EVR was actually a Kannada Balija. The inscription inside the Perumal Kovil in Erode Fort area is a standing testimony to this. Besides, EVR himself has described himself only as Kannadiga, in many of his public speeches, reproduced/published by his own publications.

Even Mu. Ka's origin is traced to Andhra Pradesh. (I lived in A.P. for 13 years)
Some of his ancestral relatives (Thayadhi) still live and practise their family profession in Tirupathi.

 

[s007bala]

>>Even Mu. Ka's origin is traced to Andhra Pradesh. (I lived in A.P. for 13 years)
Some of his ancestral relatives (Thayadhi) still live and practise their family profession in Tirupathi<<

Shri Pannvalan

What is Shri Mu Ka's Thayadhis family profession in Tirupathi?I knew about the Telegu origin,but have conflicting information about his Kula Kalvi Thittam

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

>>Even Mu. Ka's origin is traced to Andhra Pradesh. (I lived in A.P. for 13 years)
Some of his ancestral relatives (Thayadhi) still live and practise their family profession in Tirupathi<<

Shri Pannvalan

What is Shri Mu Ka's Thayadhis family profession in Tirupathi?I knew about the Telegu origin,but have conflicting information about his Kula Kalvi Thittam

sb

Nasuvan...

 

[s007bala]

Nasuvan means Barber's community.In school i was told they were called as Ambattan..so not sure..so all Mottai's cutters in Tirupathi are Shri Muka's Thayadhis.Am i right? Unlike JJ who was actress by profession,with Wodeyar's of Mysore?

The guttural voice of Mu Ka evokes fear and sort of mesmerises peoples mind with fear, for Tamils.

sb

 

[silverfox]

Dear Pannvalan:

You are absolutely right. Please refer to the following excerpt.

‘Kannappar is a Telungar. I am a Kannadian. Annadurai is a Tamilian’ (Periyar EVR thoughts – first part) and ‘I belong to the Karnatak Balijawar caste’ (Kudiyarasu 22/8/1926) are the ways in which he (Ramasamy Naicker) introduces himself.”
-Review by: Viswamitra, 31 March 2005 - http://www.tamilnation.org/books/Politics/venkatesan.htm

Happy Hindu,

I stand by my earlier word that EVR was actually a Kannada Balija. The inscription inside the Perumal Kovil in Erode Fort area is a standing testimony to this. Besides, EVR himself has described himself only as Kannadiga, in many of his public speeches, reproduced/published by his own publications.

Even Mu. Ka's origin is traced to Andhra Pradesh. (I lived in A.P. for 13 years)
Some of his ancestral relatives (Thayadhi) still live and practise their family profession in Tirupathi.

 

[happyhindu]

Hmmm....if he was so clear abt being kannada balija, i dunno why he was considered telugu by the telugu folk then...perhaps bcoz its 'socially understood' that the kannada balija and telugu balija are no diff from one another, except that the kannada balija are staunch Shaivas due to the strong influence of lingayatism and the telugu balijas come in 2 forms - those from karnataka origins usually follow shaiva pratices and those from andhra follow vaishnava practices.

A good many border areas of Karnataka and Andhra belonged to common kingdoms in the past, and differentiating b/w telugu and kannada wud be difficult, i suppose....reminds me of a lingayath girl who to my surprise spoke a strange form of telugu at home (that had more kannada in it than telugu)..and when i asked her if they were telugu people, she casually said we were telugu reddy people but now we are kannada lingayats....i see the people from the border areas as a very-very flexible lot actually....

Anyways, am relieved that he is not considered a telugu guy layball: eace:

 

[pannvalan]

It is true that with changing times and with free, voluntary migration, several families switched to a different- sometimes, totally unconnected- mother tongue.

Many a time, this happened due to direct and indirect influences of the rulers, whose 'lingua franca' was willingly learnt and adapted to suit one's needs. In such a situation, a laughable admixture of one's own mother tongue and that of the ruler is seen in the citizens of such province/nation.

Even today, I do observe people at lower ranks readily (attempt to) learn the language of their big boss (or atleast their immediate boss) to win his heart and to get favours from him. Sometimes, it is not relished by the boss and many a time, this 'kaakka pidikkara' practice (sycophancy) is frowned upon and detested by all the colleagues around.

Coming to EVR, we have to take only the words of him, that too spoken by himself on many occasions, on many different platforms. Nobody seemed to have ever contradicted his word.

I also know many of his close relatives and their descendants whom many consider as
'kamma naidus' - akin to our rich landlords of mudaliar (vellalar) community. In the border districts of TN and AP, they mingle with each other freely and also have marriage ties. So do goldsmiths, carpenters, toddy-tappers (Chanar in TN and Gouds in AP), cobblers, scavengers and the like. These may be due to societal compulsions or evolutions in cultural anthropology.

 

[happyhindu]

Pannvalan-ji,

His descendents claim many things. I too have heard of this 'kamma naidu' claim. It appears to me that anyone in tamilnadu who wanted to be seen as a rebel or anti-establishment or someone instrested in politics and all such gimmiks, eventually claimed to be kammas. I do not know the reason for this - maybe it is because kammas have become more wealthy than any other telugu community and they have been able to pull off anything with influence of money.

 

[happyhindu]

Pannvalan-ji,

Just one thing: maybe in the past people professed such things for kaakaa pidikikkara thing...but if you might notice even some wealthy marathi speaking families (who do not need to please anyone) have taken to lingayatism on their own, same goes for fairly recent reddy converts..the girl i was speaking of had a builder father owning a construction company and entire families together with extended kitn and kin started wearing the lingam...and i personally like the lingayath society much too - they are a liberal progressive lot with no bar on women in anything at all...so sometimes faith might be beyond societal compulsions or anything to do with cultural anthropology.