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EV Ramasamy Naicker's hypocracy

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Interesting... could you pls post the time phase when this happened? (is there any published articles on this... just my curiosity)

On another note, what about the rest of India, Pakistan, Afganisthan and Burma?

Is evidence through fossils the only means to ascertain? I agree that is an irrefutable proof, but only of those which we have uncovered? Does this mean that no more fossils are to be found?

The period which we are discussing (as per the yugas) cross over several millenia... it is quite plausible that any fossil evidence could have just corroded away? Do you want to ignore this probability?
 
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>>The period which we are discussing (as per the yugas) cross over several millenia... it is quite plausible that any fossil evidence could have just corroded away? Do you want to ignore this probability?<<

Super point, S S !!

:) sb :)
 
A recent book based on extensive research by a linguist showed how Sanskrit has been influenced by Tamil. Neither the North Indians nor the Tamilians would accept it because it goes against all the present theories.

Then there are people who believe in Atlantis, Lemoria and there are plenty of articles about it.

As I said earlier "Indians in general refute modern rigorous science and scientific methods when it comes to Hinduism."
 
>>As I said earlier "Indians in general refute modern rigorous science and scientific methods when it comes to Hinduism."<<

Becoz they know its not Hinduism but rather Sanathana Dharma.

sb
 
It is because science tends to negate anything which does not have proof... and proof is just not possible in all cases... (so far, at least).

If science takes a more lenient view and starts working from the yugas and why there are no fossils around... could that not open new doors?
 
Saw the thread... but does not infer that this discussion too has to take an extreme note...

Views may be extreme, and thus the discussion could also take on the colour... but it is the very nature of the subject...
 
Dear Nacchinarkiniyan,

I heard one anecdote about C. Rajagopalachari (Rajaji). When some one remarked that Sanskrit was mother of all Indian languages and went on to undermine the hoary past and copious literature in Tamil, by speaking ill of them and comparing with some ancient Sanskrit scripts, Rajaji silently shot off a repartee thus:

"If the saying that Sanksrit is the mother of all Indian languages is
assumed to be correct, then Tamil is the father of all Indian
languages!"
 
Pannvalan-ji,

Indeed Tamil and Sanskrit could be the parents of most Indian languages. These days some studies are showing that nearly half of the north-indian genetic pool is derived from south-india, obviously if people went from south to north they carried with them their culture, language, beliefs and all. Just that some north-indians might not initially accept this. At the same time, most south-indians are nearly confirmed as having lived in the north once (no lemuria theory, just tsunamis, incoming seas and cities sunk). This again goes against the popular south-indian belief.
 
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Dear Happy Hindu,

I too have some reservations about the existence of Lemuria. But, the fact remains that some parts of Tamilnadu coastline were submerged into the sea, in the past for
which ample historical, marine-archeological and literary evidences have been found.
Even the word 'navy' in English and 'naukaha' in Sanskrit were derived from the Tamil word 'Navaai' which means boat or a small sea-vessel. Because, Tamilnadu is one of the few states that has long coastline.

I too agree that people of the yore did not live in compartmentalised societies and this coupled with free migration back and forth has brought fresh ideas, customs and
beliefs into all societies. This is cultural fusion.

But, as I have written above, frequent mentions in Tamil literature about certain facts and events connected to Tamil society broadly outline the Tamil culture and its people, without any ambiguity.

I don't say everything today remains intact. For instance, people of Tamilnadu today have learnt and frequently use several words from other languages- indigenous and exotic- and also eat dishes originated from other places and wear dresses designed by and prevalent in other places. Nothing wrong.

My only argument here is we must be able to distinguish the original from the imported ones.
 
Dear Pannvalan-ji,

No doubt there have been huge tracts of thriving lands off the coast of Tamil Nadu that have been getting sunk since a very long time. Tsunamis were noted to have happened there even 10k years ago. During the time when things were passed on only orally, who knows how many more cud have taken place.

My only argument here is we must be able to distinguish the original from the imported ones.

Am not sure what purpose will such a distinguishing serve.

My leanings so far have somehow tended to be more towards bringing people together rather than dividedness (dividedness is easy); and in that i might typically be the case of one man's food other man's poison without intending to be anything.

Regards.
 
Happy Hindu,

I said only to distinguish not to divide.

If you stretch your argument a little further, no purpose will be served by discussing anything here. They will be just for one's time-pass!
 
Agreed sir (though my intension was not to just pass time here) <<deleted stuff, my apologies if any hurt was caused>>
 
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The beauty is,EVR who was a Naicur ( Nai=dog in Tamil; cur=dog in english ) lol,was neither Tamil nor Sanskrit.But a Telegu-Kannada combo prolly Kantel.But definite more guelte influence.Chennapatnam aka Chennai was ruled by Telegus prior to Islamic terrorism & Christian terrorism. 947 till 1747 Mughal or Islamic terrorism and from 1747 till 1947 Christain terrorism of East India company.

sb
 
That man (evr) was just allowed to get away with too many things, without anybody questioning him. Therein perhaps was a part of the crux of the prob.

It does not matter who was ruling chennapatnam before or after. Already the telugu folk are given to discussing these things the other way round on the other side. Its better to avoid these kind of topics (and yes, it is better to avoid actually).

Btw, asked a linguist for the meaning of nayaka and since when the word has been in use. He suggested it might mean 'dog-tamer', perhaps from proto-dravidian, though he was not at all sure. Sanskrit is replete with the usage of nayaka (vi-nayaka for ganesha, etc) and nai for dog is not observed in that language in any form. The only word that's closest is noqai meaning dog in some mongolian language. Otherwise in sanskrit its kukkura (telugu-kukka, tocharian-ku, hindi-kutta) and a few other synonyms.
 
H H

Are you saying Nai = dog in tamil is not correct?

As for telegus claiming they were Kings of the land now known as Chennai,its true in a way.Why anyone shud be afraid of history?All sort of kings and queens used to go to war and occupy if victorious.Pretty much what George W Bush has done in Iraq!!he is the de facto king of USA ROFL,isn't it?That is why Bharath of old period did influence either directly or indirectly land of Egypt,Iran,Iraq,Nazareth,Israel,Mecca,Medina,Afghanistan,Russian Territories,Caucasus Mountain regions............etc

EVR questioned the practices of brahmins in particular,becoz brahmins had a silly way of dismissing other peoples views very arrogantly,as if they knew everything in the world.And since brahmins were not used to be questioned by every tom dick harry in our case every rama,swami,krishna..etc got a rude shock.The english christians just enjoyed what they did ie divide & rule.And that is what is being done world over now.

sb
 
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Am saying nai=dog is observed only in tamil. If that were the usage in sanskrit then probably half of the gods wud not have been named the way they were.

The best part is kukkura in sanskrit has no cognates in any other indo-european language outside india - the word (and its usage) is indigenous to india. Some say it might be a loanword into sanskrit from a mundari substrate. Not sure of anything though. Here's an interesting article: http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=332764

Its true - why be afraid of history. The only prob comes when ppl start becoming emotionally involved in such things. Chennai was just a fishing village and part of the damerla ppl's property. Some ppl say the damerlas were linked to the gingee nayaks. We do not know what's correct. The komatis wanted chennai to go to andhra during the divisions of states. Anyways, all those are old stories and not of any use now. You have a very easy going attitude. That's very refreshing. Thanks.
 
Its so silly when i see people fighting over which is superior,old,best.We are all amritasya putras/putris ie children of god.This Naicur bugger,unleashed a sickness which is permeating and rottenned things in TN.But when you ask other caste communities,they are happy,that conservative brahmins are no longer a power center,and extremely delighted that brahmins have been kicked out of TN and maybe from the world itself :( :( :( na ma sivaya

sb
 
The word 'nayaka' denotes leader in Sanskrit. Its feminine form is 'nayaki'. In the name of denigrating EVR, let us not twist the meaning of the word itself.

In those districts of Tamilnadu, bordering AP, 'Vanniars' live in great numbers. They also call themselves 'nayakkars'. Probably their ancestors worked as soldiers and group leaders during the regime of Vijayanagar nayak kings. Their origin is also clouded in history. They liberally use many Telugu words, in their day-to-day life.

The 'nayak' kings ruled only some parts of Tamilnadu like Madurai, Thanjavur, Kanchipuram, Chennai, Tiruvallur and Tirunelveli. But, when they came here, a vast battalion of people engaged in all kinds of trade and profession followed them.

The king who gave away Chennapatnam (Chennai) to the East Indian Company for a few a lakhs of Rupee was Chennappa Nayakkan. Curiously enough, in whole of the Chandragiri palace he lived in, only Tamil inscriptions are found everywhere. If the king was a Telugu, how and why this could happen? (Chandragiri is a small town situated on Tirupathi-Chittoor Road, 14 Kms away from Tirupathi).

Even the Govindaraja Perumal Temple in Tirupathi town and Venkatachalapathy temple on Tirumala bear Tamil inscriptions everywhere, pillars, walls and roof. They stand as a strong testimony to the Chola's temple architecture (Dravidian or 'Nagara' style), implying that these temples were actually built by Chola kings during 9th to 13th centuries.

There are several unanswered questions and even the Telugu scholars I met couldn't offer proper explanation and convincing answers.

Remember, a Sangam Age song describes Thiruvengadam as the northern boundary of Tamilnadu.

When I lived in Andhra Pradesh, many people have openly challenged, teased and tormented me saying that it is only Tamil came from Telugu and not vice versa. They also boasted that Carnatic music was brought to Tamilnadu by Saint Thiagaraja and before him even music and other performing arts were not in existence in Tamilnadu.

To this, I said countering them:

"Look, your Saint Thiagaraja was born in Tiruvarur and lived in Tiruvaiyaru, in the heartland of Tamilnadu, during Maratha's rule. But before him, we had "Paripaadal" eulogising Thirumaal and Silappadhikaram giving vivid description of music and dance, dating back to 2nd to 6th centuries. Before Thiagaraja, Annamayya composed kirtanas in Telugu. But, before 15th century, there exists no proof of a Telugu who actually composed songs in carnatic music or anyother".
(I never denied the existence of Telugu poetry prior to Annamayya, but only disputed the age of music in Telugu world).

"Show me just one small piece of literature in Telugu, that was written prior to
9th century. Even the Telugu poet 'Nannaya' derived his name from Tamil, meaning
good way or path (nannayam)."

Even the teachers and professors of Telugu department could not give proper explanation and issue a denial to me.

When we talk of history, we must get our facts right, though what I write may not be palatable to some. I am pained by the sayings/writings of people like EVR,
who was actually a Kannada Balija, who chose to call Tamil a 'Kaattumirandi Bashai" -
a language of the barbarians. He has continuously targeted the Tamil language and its people, whenever he wanted to. This he has the audacity to do, he himself living on Tamil soil!

Following his footsteps, 'Mu Ka' also calls all Tamils collectively 'senseless, shameless, without self-respect and superstitious'. This he does whenever his party faces defeat in the polls.

Both EVR are Mu Ka are called by their followers as great reformers of the Tamil race. EVR is called Father of Tamils and Mu Ka is called Guardian or Saviour of Tamils. Could there be a worse insult?
 
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Mu Ka,EVR,Anna Dorai....et all Kazhagams are selfish brats.Who are doing there dharma as per their conscience.Its our karma,that we do not know how to rise above and explain the higher consciouness of life.May i say Jathi Brahmins have become mandus.Including me.Tamil is not Kattumirandi Bashai .Not a single language in the world is Kattumirandi.For the western life style,eating with your own hand,may look kattumirandi thanam!!I still use my hands instead of fork,knife etc as much as possible.When the occasion demands,be like the rest of the majority community.

All the cleanliness of brahmin acharam,is actually implemented by christians with absolute perfection.Laws are well thought off and defined and implemented.Ok,the last eight years of USA is a question mark?a blot actually?Al Gore was the actual president,but due to strange twist of fate he lost it?There is a god.Those who say there is no god,is a muttal.EVR is the first vadikattina Muttaal.Jalra MU Ka is the second Muttaal.

As for Tamil inscriptions,in temples.Cholans,Pallavans,Cherans...dynasties built really wonderful monuments.In my understanding,kingdoms got constantly re-defined.Untill,when the Huns/Chinese , Mughals/Islamic , British/Christians , ...chose to invade from the north west and north east of present map of india.But the actual truth as per my theory is,Indians influenced the minds of people in Egypt,Iran,Iraq,Mecca,Medina,Caucasus Mountanoius regions,Rome,.....etc.But the acknowledgement that migrations took place from India is lacking for lack of physical evidence.Which is total nonsense to me.But thats how the present day academia is set up.So,one fellow like me in earth feels,life started from Africa.Migrations to India took place.Many communities existed all over the world.People migrated either voluntarily or thru forced labor migration patterns.

EVR nut case migrated from Karnataka/Kannadiga.A plant of Wodeyar Kings/kgb.See even now Kannadigas view Tamils suspiciously.As a matter of fact,everyone is a Madrasi for people above the deccan ,lol.India is bayangara diversified culture.I am glad humanity is evolving.But war is a crime against humanity.Pakistanis whether state actors or non-state actors,are criminals.Because they are more bothered about promoting Islam by hook or by crook.What goes around comes around eventually.

sb
 
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>>When we talk of history, we must get our facts right, though what I write may not be palatable to some. I am pained by the sayings/writings of people like EVR,
who was actually a Kannada Balija, who chose to call Tamil a 'Kaattumirandi Bashai" -a language of the barbarians. He has continuously targeted the Tamil language and its people, whenever he wanted to. This he has the audacity to do, he himself living on Tamil soil!<<

My views about Shri Mu Ka now especially,after Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba & Ammachi sharing close proximity with him,has definitely undergone a change ( One is Telegu Avatar and the other is Malayalam Avatari).I am 120% sure,Shri Mu Ka is acting outwardly but inside he is a Nallavar.Brahmins constitute only 2-3 % of TN population.Its politics of numbers to be in power.Why does he want to be in power.Its an aphrodisiac.It will make a man lose all his common sense,if power gets corrupted.On a macro-level,that is what is happening all over India.Like Cancer corruption has spread like a diesease.Everyone has to grease someones palm to get their work done.Bhakshish,Something,Anbuallippu...etc are the names of corruption.Why corruption exists?Becoz humans love comfort.They think if we have more money,we can get comforts.But is it true?Shri Mu Ka will live only a little longer.As a matter of fact,he wants to die while being in office,and have a place next to MGR in Marina.At least in death they can friends forever and put an end to their charade of enmity.

EVR,used us ie Tamil Brahmins to reach a larger target audience.Did we not survive,thru our ingenuity,hard work,above all faith in god.I am confident,even if millions of EVR is born in TN,we will prevail.Tamizh will live eternally.Tamizh Thai & Thanthai know how to protect & defend.En Thai Male Aanai Tamizh Male Aanai....Engal Thanthaya Nada Endra Paychinalay Oru Nithamm.....Tamil Nadu.

sb
 
Pannvalanji,

Your experiences with the andhra folk have obviously not been very good. I have had the same probs. Was accussed of being a mixed breed, taking sides, having too much arava buddhi apart from other things. My fault is that i tend to be bitter by stating things exactly as it is.

You are right in saying the works are in tamil. Most of vijaynagar works are also in tamil and not yet translated. One explanation is that the telugu folk that came in during b/w 13th and 15th centuries were not big. And they merged with the tamil konars / idaiyars, vanniyars and mukkalathors. Naturally they followed a mixed culture. You may wish to have a look at this paper: http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Jou...Vijaya-M/IJHG-07-4-303-07-288-Vijaya-M-Tt.pdf Please note the last sentence of that paper. It is also known the tanjore nayaks followed tengalai culture. Their origins are not really mysterious unlike the gingees abt whom little is known - atleast its known that they clashed and later merged with the vanniyars. Then there are ppl like balijas known to have descended from harems in the southern karnataka regions, but hired a brahmin to give themselves a thread, gotra and a title meaning a king. For the longest time, the same caste ppl of tamil nadu wud skip the karnataka alliances. Even now the most orthodox of them around the tanjore regions still do that.

Having said all of this, it is known that 'caste' was sort of fuzzy and not really developed as solid units for the longest time in tamilnadu regions. And all genetic testing is regional. People of various castes of the same place / region cluster together more than people of the same caste but of different regions.

Regards.
 
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Dear Bala,

You do not seem to have known the whole of Mu Ka. A leopard cannot change its stripes. So also is Mu Ka. If he is inwardly a good person, why so many physical attacks against Brahmins continue even today? If ascending the throne justifies any action, howsoever unfair, unjust and cruel, sorry Bala, I will not buy this line of argument from you.

I do not know when you left for USA. But, please go through the history of Tamilnadu since 1950s meticulously.
 
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