Destiny

[sapthajihva]

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Now let us turn to the Vedas. As far as I know, there is no mention of fate or karma or previous birth in the early part of the Vedas. It came into our scriptures only after non-vedic religions, Jainism and Buddhism, spread.

Vedas, Upanishads and the Bhagavad Githa are the 'Prasthana Thrayam', for inquiry into the Brahman. All are shruthis, and BG mentions about reincarnation and karma.

 

[sapthajihva]

Dear all
First of all I thank all the leanered people who have posted their reply against my request for in respect of 'Destiny'.

Many people have given quotes from various scriptures. One has even suggested to read Bhagvat Gita several times. My question is very simple. The place, time, environment of a person's birth is solely depended upon one's previous Karma. I understand from the replies that one carry 'vasanas' of the previous birth to the new birth. Such being the case, even though one has the free will to act, he could not due to his 'vasanas' or the circumtances or environment on has be put in due to his previous 'karma'. For example, even in Bhavat Gita, all of your aware, that Arjuar refused to fight for the main reason that the oponents are none but their one relations. He said I don't want a kingdom by killing my own relations. However, Shri Krishna explained that all of them have already died and you are only duing your duty as a warrior. Therefore, even though one wants to act independently he could not do so as I explained above. Therefore, my understanding is that everything is pre-determined. There may be some exceptions but exceptions are not examples.
Request your learned view on this.
Regards
Balachandran

Just a few words on the highlighted sentences. Here, the context is that Krishna is comparing the purity of mind and soul. The comparison here is metaphorical and does not mean that they had physically died. The Kauravas were full of hatred, jealousy and greed which had clouded their intellect. A person without a proper intellect is a waste. And hence, the Kauvaravas had already (mind and soul) died as a result of such influences.

Then he goes on further to point out the uniqueness of a soul and how the soul is not destroyed and so on...

Even after listening to Krishna, Arjuna still had the option not to fight, but he was convinced and hence he chose to fight.

BTW, what do you mean by acting independently here??

 

[Nara]

Free choice

[...]Therefore, even though one wants to act independently he could not do so as I explained above. Therefore, my understanding is that everything is pre-determined.

Hello!

Free choice is a truly intriguing question. All religious traditions have wrestled with this question. Why would a benevolent god give free choice to humans and let them make bad choices and suffer as a consequence? This is a particularly nagging question if God is portrayed as Father. No father would give his child free choice to get hurt.

It is somewhat easier for hinduism to deal with this question because of the theory of Karma and reincarnation. In Srimat Bhagavat Geetha, Verse 18.14, Lord Sri Krishna declares that there are five agencies for all action, namely, (i) body, (ii) jivan, (iii) gross and subtle senses (karma/jnana indriyam), (iv) life force (prAnan/apAnan), and (v) God.

The commentary by Bhagavat Ramanuja and a gloss for it by Swami Sri Desikan contend that the Bhagavan has empowered the Jivan with "swathanthriyam" independence of action. The jivan does have independence that it is limited to just 1/5th of the causes. Then, they go on to assert that the effect of karma can be prevented if one realizes this and performs all actions with what is called "sAthvIka thyAgam".

Anyway, all this is a lot of mumbo-jumbo. It is due to randomness of events one is faced with different situations. Our genes play a lot of part in the choices we make. At the subatomic particles level who is to say who has what choice. QED!

Cheers!

 

[drsundaram]

good subject very worthy to reflect upon. There are varied opinions among spiritual masters of today. But having experienced life in its own way vis a vis my efforts I can vouch there is something beyond our control happening to us every second. Simply being in the flow and rendering the best by being in the presence is what one can do and I think this is the the only path to lead our life till our last breat out. Let us respect that which spins around and within us.

 

[Siddhanta]

The place, time, environment of a person's birth is solely depended upon one's previous Karma.

I have done a research into this. I asked my astrologer, (a very talented person in his knowledge) whether it is possible to fix a time for a person's birth predetermined by Jyoutisha so that that child is born at a very favourable time and that child can have a very good fortune. For this he replied that a few people contacted him regarding this matter, and he did fix a good time for birth depending on his knowledge.

In each attempt, unfortunate events occurred like the power going off, doctors getting emergency calls and so on. This was a very interesting phenomenon i learnt in my research.


In Rama avatar, Lord Ram was born in a particular time which was predetermined such that circumstances would eventually lead him to destroy Ravana. During the war, Ravana learnt that the positions of the planets are not favorable to him and he eventually will be destroyed. For this he captured the planets and attempted to re position them, which was interrupted by Lord Hanuman and the planets were released. Hence Ravana was unable to change his fate and was killed by Lord Ram.

More details on fate and destiny is explained in my Research work here which explains are we really in control of our lives.

Mind Control and Aliens the Suppressed Knowledge

 

[pannvalan]

To me, the exact date and time of birth of a human being is the actual moment at which the zygotic communion/conception occurs. It is almost impossible to fix the correct time- hours, minutes and seconds and sometimes, date too. Therefore, horoscopes based on the delivery time of a child are not a correct reflection of the planetary positions of an individual.

Moreover, neither jyodhisham nor psychology nor human physiology has found an answer to the question "Why all the children born at the same time - date, hours,
minutes and seconds - do not share the same/common destiny?"

Fixing a suitable date and time for delivery of a child is interfering with Nature and is most ridiculous. A man cannot alter the planetary positions to suit his convenience. If that is possible, not just for delivery, for each and every conceivable situation or need, that can be attempted. Will that yield the desired results 100% ?

 

[Siddhanta]

It is almost impossible to fix the correct time- hours, minutes and seconds and sometimes, date too. Therefore, horoscopes based on the delivery time of a child are not a correct reflection of the planetary positions of an individual.

Though i am not a professional Astrologer, i can address this. The exact time is the time the planets and the celestials happen to see the child completely. I suppose this is the time reported by most people for the time of birth, when the child is fully outside. However, minor changes in times of birth, like a few minutes or one hour does not impact major changes unless there is a significant change in the position of the celestials. This is of course an approximation, and errors does arise out of this.

Moreover, neither jyodhisham nor psychology nor human physiology has found an answer to the question "Why all the children born at the same time - date, hours,
minutes and seconds - do not share the same/common destiny?"

The place of birth is also taken into consideration while drawing the astrological chart of a person. Also i have seen twins who are born in a few minutes difference share common life in childhood and also their lives are similar. Although those born with significant time difference have seperated destinies.


Psychology, on the other hand does not depend upon the position of the planets. Although it is possible to predict a person's psychology based on the position of the planets. If the position of the planets is giving bad influence, then that person may have a bad Karma and hence his psychology to the reaction of his destiny can be ascertained since it would obviously be a bad attitude.

Although we see in newspapers grouping people on Rashis and predicting their psychology, they are barely true since in depth analysis is not done.

Psychology is our reaction to our fate. Like i said before, there are only two reactions, good or bad which leads to Dharma or Adharma, that inturn derives the karma.

 

[pannvalan]

Even amongst identical twins, I have noticed both agreeing behaviour patterns and
disagreeing/different behaviour patterns.

Their interests, education, career path, social status and even lifestyle, peace and happiness and health are found to be different in many, many cases (I don't say majority of the cases). How would one explain this?

 

[Siddhanta]

Even amongst identical twins, I have noticed both agreeing behaviour patterns and
disagreeing/different behaviour patterns.

Their interests, education, career path, social status and even lifestyle,peace and happiness and health are found to be different in many, many cases (I don't say majority of the cases). How would one explain this?

Please be adviced i am not debating, i am posting my views. So far i have seen at least the cases i encountered (considering twins is a rare phenomenon which is not encountered very often) have identical lives and those who do not can be explained that their times of birth had planetary shifts and as it is, they are seperate souls and their psychology differs. Also when they get married to different people of different horoscopes, then that will have some major impact on their course of life.

My interest into Jyoutisha springs from the fact that it clearly adopts the planets and their movements thousands of years back, at least from the time before Western science established the official structure of our solar system. Although Jyoutisha may not yield any profit, it can help lead a peaceful life free of worries and avoid blunders. Another part of my research was to take two horoscopes of a couple who are recently married and the man already committed suicide. I asked my astrologer to match them. He predicted that the man cannot be trusted and the girl should not marry the man. Also he adviced for the girl to go to a temple and offer some puja to counter what he called "mangalya dosham".

I do agree there are astrologers who cheat people to get money and tell them the wrong things which is really MISLEADING. Only a few Astrologers are really talented and honest in this field. I beleive Jyoutisha cannot create any miracles, but life as it is can be lived in a peaceful manner. From my personal side, i have made significant choices in life in a smart manner using Jyoutisha and avoided making huge blunders.

 

[pannvalan]

Sadly, in the field of jyodhisham or fore-telling, many novices, crooks, cheats and tricksters have entered. They vastly outnumber the genuine ones. This has put a big question mark about the credibility of the field itself.

Consider these points.

1. Those who were very adept and successful in prophecy, slowly begin to believe
themselves since whatever happens could be predicted by them in advance with
precision, whatever told by them will certainly occur. Here starts the downfall of
their career.

2. Next stage is, since they are able to control the others' lives (at least they
believe so) they possess occult powers and in a way, they are also God.

3. The final stage is, they proclaim themselves as "the God".

4. The success of jyodhisham lies in the inherent curiosity in every human being to
know one's future, despite the fact that all that was predicted in the past did not
happen.

5. Those do not exhibit self-confidence, those are in miseries, those who strongly
believe that they are the only ones suffering this world, those who think the
causes for their failures, sorrow and hardship are always external seek refuge in
and solutions from jyodhisham.

6. If I can withstand the influence and pressure from the close and nearby people,
can not I do the same in respect of planets which lie at thousands of kilometers
away from me?

7. Finally, I believe in Thiru Gnana Sambandar's 'Kolaru pathigam'. In a similar vein,
in "Yaadhum Oore, Yavarum Kelir", the next line 'theedhum, nandrum pirar thara
varaa' has impressed me much. I learnt to assume responsibility for whatever I
do.

So, let us continue this debate further.

 

[Siddhanta]

To find a genuine astrologer is pretty simple. If the astrologer predicts our past accurately, then he could be considered skilled and talented. Learning how he predicts the life of those of our relatives whom we know closely also will help us know his skills. Like I said before taking the horoscopes of marriages that has recently gone bad and seeing how the astrologer matches them is also a good method. Also before that if an astrologer is skillful, we can get to know by his fame through friends, relatives, etc. An astrologer who is simple and with lot of knowledge in Sanskrit (mostly Brahmins learn Sanskrit) and all the Hindu Scriptures in detail including the law of existence according to Hinduism, the one who is spiritual, will be talented in this field.

A true astrologer will know very well he does not control anyone’s life. He is only a guide and the planets guide him in his predictions. When he knows Hinduism very well, he will know that Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the ones in control, so he cannot consider himself as God, he will bend before our Gods.

The ones who are interested in Jyoutish should also research into our Hindu scriptures and our Gods before blindly believing in future predictions. Jyoutish cannot create miracles or fortune. It is a way to analyze our life and avoid blunders, thereby living a peaceful life. The book Jyoutisha Siddhanta Sara gives an explanation of existence and Karma. (It can be downloaded from rapidshare for free) Once we realize the nature of eternal soul, then all worries vanish. Death will not be anything new, so this is true confidence, actually the self-confidence one has in his body mind system is fake. Death can catch us anytime or nothing is permanent (and today one cant trust his own wife or children). Only Karma is permanent. With this we will follow the path of dharma in every act.

When we find an astrologer who is skillful and talented, that is the time we will really realise that whatever told in the Hindu Scriptues(that which has no date of origin) is correct. Then we do not believe in the astrologer, rather we are learning our own life through him, he is like a doctor or so and the karma is our health. Like I said if an astrologer had predicted the misery that has already occurred, then he could predict our miseries that are yet to occur. There are various remedies like Worshipping specific Gods for every misfortune (Hanuman, Muruga, Ayyappa, etc) and the skillful astrologer who knows our Gods will correctly advice the remedy. WITH THIS DONE, WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FEAR AT ALL. This is real CONFIDENCE and we can face what we already know would be easy or difficult.

Unfortunately this will only be available to a Hindu, unless that person learns the Hindu way of life and other ways of life are very far from Hinduism. This is another way to estimate an astrologer’s skills, a genuine one will never talk about Secularism.

I do know the modern philosophy with the influence of modern Religions all stress on self confidence and individual effort, but this way of life takes us far, far from spirituality due to the build up of unnecessary stress and panic.

 

[pannvalan]

If you surrender yourselves before the Almighty (Parasakthi), She takes care of you
in all respects.

The larger includes the smaller too.

When I am guarded by the supreme force, why should I fear or panic? Or, why should I go after some other powers?

 

[sapthajihva]

If you surrender yourselves before the Almighty (Parasakthi), She takes care of you
in all respects.

The larger includes the smaller too.

When I am guarded by the supreme force, why should I fear or panic? Or, why should I go after some other powers?

Absolutely right!

But surrender should be complete, not just in words. Most try to surrender, but are swept away by the vagaries of life. Hence, astrology might help such lesser mortals to safeguard their interests.

Shri Rama has said - 'Maam Ekam Saranam Vraja'. How many of us do a complete surrender. It means we have to just do our duty and try to mitigate karmaphalas. Any good that comes as a result of our actions have to be considered as Bhagavath Prasada.

Are we really into such a mould?

 

[pannvalan]

The process of surrender is not a one shot affair. It is a coninuous process with no looking back. Any vaccilation, despair or despondency shall not be allowed to envelope the person attempting such surrender.

Those who surrender themselves to the Almighty will continue to be humble, mature and will take whatever comes their way. They neither grudge nor rejoice. But, the kind of equipoise suggested by Lord Krishna is not that easy for every one. Yet, it is not out of reach too!

 

[Siddhanta]

If you surrender yourselves before the Almighty (Parasakthi), She takes care of you
in all respects.

The larger includes the smaller too.

When I am guarded by the supreme force, why should I fear or panic? Or, why should I go after some other powers?

This is true but if one has to “truly” surrender, then one has to forsake all life, become a sanyasi and sit and do tapas. In my opinion, this way of life is complete surrendering to our Gods.

Because, we in reality are not doing that. We are living a normal life. When we live normal life, we are bound to Karma. We have to earn money to make a living. We are supporting those who are close to us. By this way of life, surrendering to “Almighty” has little or no meaning in reality.

I do agree Devi Parasakti takes care of us.

If we look our history, Lord Vishnu teaches us to live the correct way of life in Rama Avatar. In his life as a human, he has to do his duties. Even Lord Ram, being a God, he required powers to defeat adharma. Same is the case with Krishna avatar. He offers Worship to Lord Shiva and Goddess Parvathi. At one point he had to cure his brother Lakshman, where he asks Lord Hanuman to get the herb from Sanjeevi Mountain. He is not “surrendering to the almighty” because he has to do his duties. I suppose this “surrendering to the almighty” was taught in the Christian Religion (to make us surrender into the mind control saga of the aliens, about which my research is all about). I have not come across any Hindu scripture which says this phrase.

A genuine Brahmin has to have knowledge of the Vedas and the other Hindus learn from him the Hindu way of life. This is what Hinduism is all about, Pure Knowledge.

Vedic astrology or Jyotish is the foremost of the six Vedangas or 'limbs of the Veda'. It is said to be the 'eye of the Veda' through which all Vedic knowledge can be properly applied. Ayurveda is the foremost of the four Upavedas or 'secondary Vedas' through which a true Vedic life can be properly lived. Ayurveda and Vedic astrology are closely intertwined not only with each other but with all other Vedic sci­ences, including the great wisdom traditions of Yoga and Vedanta and their profound paths of Self-realization and God-realization.


Ayurvedic Astrololy

 

[Nara]

I suppose this “surrendering to the almighty” was taught in the Christian Religion [.......] I have not come across any Hindu scripture which says this phrase.

Look at the Carama Shloka of Srimath Bhagavat Geetha, what does it say? I think you need to take a another serious look at Hindu scriptures.

Sri Vaishnava religion, based on the doctrine of Visishtavaitam, is all about unconditional surrender called Prapatti. There is tons and tons of philosophical exegesis written on Prapatti before Christianity made any major inroad into India, or at the very least the Brahminical circles of Tamilnadu.

There is quite a lot of this going on here in this forum, I am sorry to say. People have a right to their opinions for sure, but they do not have a right to their own facts.

Cheers!

 

[Siddhanta]

There is quite a lot of this going on here in this forum, I am sorry to say. People have a right to their opinions for sure, but they do not have a right to their own facts.

I never mentioned anywhere that what i am posting are absolute "facts". I mentioned clearly i am posting my views. I do not understand why people turn to be serious rather than having a casual discussion. This is also part of my mind control research.

Prapatti and Bhagavantam concepts are TOTALLY different from Christianity. Could you please provide the Tamil version of this phrase given in the scriptures? By "surrendering to Almighty" i meant blind faith without knowledge as taught by Christianity. Prapatti and Bhagavantam never promote forsaking knowledge like Jyoutisha and its use, but whereas Christianity is blind faith and prayer. What most people perceive Hinduism is due to this influence. For Christianity when it originated, gave the wrong structure of universe(sun goes around earth), then later when it was proved wrong, Religion and Science became two seperate entities.

People mistake the same concept with Hinduism without thinking about it.

 

[[email protected]]

to Siddhanta, sir, now a days Doctors asked the inlaws to get good time and a operation wiil carry out and baby will born. So how call it ? s.r.k.

 

[[email protected]]

to sri siddhantaji, Only Hindu scriptures said about total surrender to the Lord and not christian Religion. Our scriptures give a very high place to the GURU and tells that we should totally surrender to him and he will take care. For self realization to God realization. We have failed in getting a Master for our spritual life. Chrishtian teachings are just for Brain washing. s.r.k.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

If you can interact with knowledgeable persons in these field, they will tell you about 'Garbhashista" etc. For simple mortals like us , indulging in more mundane things of daily life, why o confuse with complicated matters which is expert' job to research and debate. Or this can be dealt in specialist sites.

Scholars and acharyas will explain the prapanjotpatti even from the words "Om Bhoor Bhuva Suvah" resonating the Big Bang and subsequent cooling and settling.

Am I also confusing?Sorry.

 

[Siddhanta]

These responses are very much expected, these are nothing new.

Brainwashing, yes very much. To cover up the fact that Hinduism contains so much knowledge and make it look like a Religion with "God" is the prime motive of people.

However to a learned person, this is Kali Yuga and this is nothing unexpected.

 

[drsundaram]

to Siddhanta, sir, now a days Doctors asked the inlaws to get good time and a operation wiil carry out and baby will born. So how call it ? s.r.k.

yes. I like to learn the veracity of such occurrences. Can one decide the time of birth by advising doctor going for cesarian? Not withstanding the fact whether the perfect time of birth could stil still maintained upto the second, is the wisdon to take control of time of birth correct ? Are we not interfering with nature's laws to take effect on the birty of the child?. Is this a correct stand approved? Again ponderig on the "Living will" can one decide the death also like wise, even though the person has "willed"? Suffering by the person who is dying is one aspect. what about the other factor to decide to take away the life force??

 

[pannvalan]

The word surrender shall not be confused with renunciation here. Surrender means shedding one's ego and pride. Placing everything at the holy feet of the Almighty, without claiming credit for what one has done nor escaping from the responsibility if anything goes wrong or shirking one's duties to lead a carefree and worry-free life.

Surrender need not be accompanied by leaving one's family and belongings or going to a secluded place, far away from human habitations and engaging in tapas or meditation.

By being in the midst of the milling crowd, one can still be a servant of god. It is not that difficult to practise, as is portrayed to be.

Of course, it requires divine blessings and equanimity of mind, that takes some time to achieve.

Good luck to everybody.

 

[RVR]

Saranagathi Philosophy is very much prevalent in Vaishanavism. Saint Manikkavachakar also advocates surrender to Lord Shiva.

One can continue worldly life and at the same time develop surrendering attitude to God. There is no necessary to take sanyas.

All the best

 

[akura]

Surrender

pannvalan ji,
you are absolutely right .you must feel this body is not
me .thegaathma bhavam only is to be given up , shedding
one's own ego . Surender means surrendering the ego and
the feeling that "we are not the doer ".
NISHKAAMIYA KARMAM -
rest practices all are round about and confusing only.