ok
sangom, not sure where the elitist slant to the forum came. also what elitist means, i am not sure. if you mean that my postings are elitist, what can i say? even if i refute it, it will remain elitist as dabbed by you, and will so be quoted by others. which is why, i try to avoid any labels altogether. i think it is best to explain instance by instance.
but one thing i will agree. i come from a lower middle class roots including immediate extended ones, and over one generation have had the upward mobility to financial security. this does not necessarily mean that we have forgotten our roots. but my views could be interpreted from what i felt was a middle class tambram experience.
each time i come to india i see more and more of only tambram moving up and often wonder at the way the community has forged ahead against organized hostility or at best indifference from the state.
i think i am looking at the same issue differently. i am told by many in this forum, that money from the banks is freely available for education. perhaps mandated by the government. i am told that it is that easy, as going to a bank branch showing the app form and getting the money. i may be wrong, but if the above is true, there is no need for the parents to scrape out their savings. is there?
another fallacy is that it takes money to be groomed, panache et al. a set of weights cost about 200 or so ruppees. jogging around the block, doing buskis, pullups in corporation playgrounds etc. cost next to nothing. i am emphasizing a healthy body along with a healthy mind.
a strong physique builds confidence. self confidence is, i think the key to success. to getting good jobs. to doing well at interviews. sir, we need to instill thudukku in our boys. it is not the clothing that matters, but it is how you carry clothing. you may be tailored in savile row, but if you carry it like saidapet, what is the use; vice versa is also true. it does not take money. it takes a determination.
when i grew up, i knew poor brahmin boys, who looked fit and yet did well in their studies. one is not mutually exclusive to the other.
i am not sure what you mean here. i belong to the kerala iyers trust where i do my mite, and of late we have not had any requests for education for that organization. the only requests are for health related stuff, and for which money is raised almost overnight and dispersed overnight.
another thing i would like to say - there will always be poor in any community. to raise yourself out of poverty you need to have a desire, determination and above a certain ruthless hatred of your current situation. you must first acknowledge poverty sucks. on the other hand if you wallow in the self pity of the poverty sand, and whine tunes to elicit pity or sense of guilt from the well off members of your community, i don't know what to say.
i empathize with elders who are sick and no money. i empathize with poor students who have ambitions. i am unable to empathize with people with no drive and who want to move up in life. moving up takes very very hard work. it is not only true of the poor tambrams, it is true for everyone here including my chldren and everyone's children. gone are the days when one could live off the ancestral land or ancestral wealth. in these days one has to put on one's own effort.
and personally i have a hard time believing in this chennai of today with its numerous factories opening every day, that a tambram can be unemployed. sure enough he wont be a manager, but he will have a job and chances to upgrade himself. if he is in the village and there is no job in the village, he should do what my father did, move out and seek his fortunes in the city, like many of us have done. i have a problem accepting the excuses shown here. they smack of a deprived entitlement.
sangom, there is no such thing as 'in due course' for a boy who is 38 and umarried. long gone are his first glow, hair thins, hips heavier.. and every day it gets worse. let me project his future in 10 years - after his parents have gone, he is left alone in this world, lonely and desperate and no one to share his life. do we want that? north indian brahmins marrying us is a pipe dream, i think. why has that initiative all of a sudden come to a full stop?
ok. all these topics appear inter related to me. girls going after ic (let them be, i say); boys remain unmarried (my utmost sorrow for them, and even more, because the parents are bull headed to stick to their prejudices at the expense of their son). man this guy needs a woman, and he has depended on the parents to find one. can they not let go of some of their moulded prejudices and find him one, that he can share his life? to me it is the height of selfishness.
i refer to KRS' definition in his post. atleast the way i understood it. please go through it again, and KRS may be more articulate in his explanation than yours truly.
heaven forbid, if i have mocked poverty anywhere. or the poor. that is plainly not true. if it be so, please point out to me. in advance i have laid a platter of apologies in front of you. now i would like to see those mocks, so that i can mend.
as said above, there is no need to spend money on education.better to borrow money from bank. it is also a good feeling for the yougsters to know that he paid for his own education. pay it off when he starts working. all over the world, many many youths do this. it is new to india but a welcome phenomenon nevertheless.
i do not have answers for old people's agonies and loneliness. it is a tough time for many of us. i can foresee that unless i take care of my financial security, i am in for trouble that is the reality of today. if you have cruel dil, too bad. i know of enough stories of cruel mil. these two are like oil and water, and not meant to mix.stay with the daughters. the reality, all over the world, is that a daughter always stays with you. the son often walks out with his wife. but then we have a hangup of staying with daughters. get rid of that mental handicap. this is what i mean that paradigms have changed, and unless we do, we are in for sorrow.
whatever works for each family. there is no right or wrong in living separately. why do we have to insist that everyone should live under one roof, cook the same meal etc etc. once upon a time there was no choice. today i believe there are choices. the fact of life today, is that there is no dedicated dil to wait at the foot of the fil. because she is out working, earning money, tending to the children, cooking, cleaning, and pleasing her husband. let us have a heart for her. she is a human too. each person in the house has to pull their weight and in this context old age homes are good - you throw some money, and you have standard care. period.
also frankly i am not sure, what i have got to do with these situations. i am not responsible for any of those happenings. i do not advocate ill treatment towards dil or mil. but what i do feel strongly, is there is no reason for any one (well almost anyone) to wallow in their misery. to their mite, they should attempt to get out of it. find solutions. even partial solutions. don't sit and complain and whine and blame the whole world for your situations. believe in yourself. have that confidence. faith. if that means letting go of some ancestral practices, then let it go. much as we believe in rebirth, the one that we are aware of is this world.let us make it better for ourselves, our children and in the process for the community.
i don't know about affluency. what i do know, is that there are various pov tossed about, including yours and mine. which is good, for with discussions, ideas are exchanged, and somewhere there is hidden, perhaps a sliver of hope or answer for someone else.
i do not know what is meant by 'western style and ideas'. if it is in clothes, when i grew up tamil girls wore thavanis; today they wear only salwars. changes happen and in many instances one has no choice but to adapt. one cannot tell one's daughter to stick to thavani, when the rest of the girls are wearing salwars. we have the internet. could we deliberately stay away from it, because it exposes one to 'western' thought and ideals. the best of west is par none in the world. the worst of west is on par with the worst of india. the choice is upto us, and no amount of advice will change that.
what is important, is that we do our debates without rancour. it is paramount to accept the fact that you and me belong to that vasudeva kutumbam. i feel very honoured that you have spent so much time and effort to reply me. what i say, is just another human mouthing off some nonesense, based on my 60 years on this earth. it is a very narrow and perhaps myopic viewpoint, nevertheless, i think i have the right to be heard, whether it be in a whisper or broadcast through a loudspeaker.
with utmost respects and regard, thank you.
Last edited:
, let me assure you sir, however much I try, I will never be able to stymie anything people want to do. All I can do is give my perspective on the issue. The action of people will depend on many factors and this may figure as one of the factors only to the extent they themselves feel is important.
