One wonders what happened to this good nature when we were treating dalits throughout history.
-
This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys
- Thread starter rprasad79
- Start date
- Status
One wonders what happened to this good nature when we were treating dalits throughout history.
@jaisiyaram
No sir..For thousands of years, there was a continuity of the culture, with one generation passing on to other.. that is how, the vedas were passed on for more than 5000 years, and survived even under extreme islamic onslaught..
and all of a sudden, the past two generations started criticising everything.. bcoz english education taught them do so.. It is this english educated generations that the older generations criticise and complain..
What you are attempting here is that older generations compaining is a general phenomenon, and hence advocating encouraging people to ignore the older generation totally.. its not fair, i say..
/** Culture is ever changing,
No cultural practice has remained immune to change and most(all ?) of the times the changes has come from within the group ie people following the culture.
**/
First culture doesnt change.. but it adapts and evolves..
Second, there are two types of changes - positive change .. negative change
Positve Change is something that adds on to the existing culture and improve it.. Eg: Brahmins becoming little flexible, and adapt smritis to modern times, while preserving the core concept..
Negative change is something that destroys the existing culture alltogether and adapt an alien one.. eg: Brahmins rejecting smritis completely, ignoring sandya vandana, pursuing materialistic life for comfort, and becoming athests..
I think, i need not say, what kind of changes are currently happening..
No sir..For thousands of years, there was a continuity of the culture, with one generation passing on to other.. that is how, the vedas were passed on for more than 5000 years, and survived even under extreme islamic onslaught..
and all of a sudden, the past two generations started criticising everything.. bcoz english education taught them do so.. It is this english educated generations that the older generations criticise and complain..
What you are attempting here is that older generations compaining is a general phenomenon, and hence advocating encouraging people to ignore the older generation totally.. its not fair, i say..
/** Culture is ever changing,
No cultural practice has remained immune to change and most(all ?) of the times the changes has come from within the group ie people following the culture.
**/
First culture doesnt change.. but it adapts and evolves..
Second, there are two types of changes - positive change .. negative change
Positve Change is something that adds on to the existing culture and improve it.. Eg: Brahmins becoming little flexible, and adapt smritis to modern times, while preserving the core concept..
Negative change is something that destroys the existing culture alltogether and adapt an alien one.. eg: Brahmins rejecting smritis completely, ignoring sandya vandana, pursuing materialistic life for comfort, and becoming athests..
I think, i need not say, what kind of changes are currently happening..
H
hoover
Guest
must read,
1. the article in Frontline 22/06/2001 'The genetics of caste'
2.article by former IIT chennai director about analogy of caste based reservations to the the culture cultivators and raiders i.e. victim and victor. published in the Hindu.
anyway, for those who live in US and Canada :
BSNA (Brahmin samaj of North America) is an active organisation in us please go through their website and if interested participate, promote and spread.
1. the article in Frontline 22/06/2001 'The genetics of caste'
2.article by former IIT chennai director about analogy of caste based reservations to the the culture cultivators and raiders i.e. victim and victor. published in the Hindu.
anyway, for those who live in US and Canada :
BSNA (Brahmin samaj of North America) is an active organisation in us please go through their website and if interested participate, promote and spread.
sangom
0
Shri Senthil,
It may not be true to say that the vedas were passed on and survived the onslaughts. In actual fact, out of 1131 Veda sakhas which are available in the country during the time of Patanjali, about 2500 years ago, only a few - ten in number - are available today. Thus many types of social diversity based on the differences in the observances of rituals, etc., had perished.
All learned Hindus from anywhere in the country (India) were given royal patronage in Vijayanagara. They were encouraged to commit to writing all the sacred knowledge which had survived and which was traditionally handed down orally from teacher to pupil. The collection and verification of such written works was done under the guidance of Sayana and Madhava. That is how we have at least these few scriptures available now.
@sangom sir
Thanks for this information sir.. i dont know much about vedas.. but even the few veda shakas seem to be very large.. Any way, we might have lost so many veda shakas due to various historical incidents.. but today, we cannot afford to lose even the remaining one..
Today, the vedas might be written down or may be recorded in CDs or DVDs.. but the vedas can be imbibed only by practice.. It is my humble opinion that one cannot hear vedas and learn it.. but by practice under a guru..
Thanks for this information sir.. i dont know much about vedas.. but even the few veda shakas seem to be very large.. Any way, we might have lost so many veda shakas due to various historical incidents.. but today, we cannot afford to lose even the remaining one..
Today, the vedas might be written down or may be recorded in CDs or DVDs.. but the vedas can be imbibed only by practice.. It is my humble opinion that one cannot hear vedas and learn it.. but by practice under a guru..
hayyram - 03-10-2010 12:55 PM
Visalakshi Ramani - Today 12:09 PM
பிராமணர்களை அம்மாஞ்சி போலவும் மற்றவர்களை ஹீரோவாகவும் சித்தரிக்கும் திரைப் படங்களை, விசில் அடித்து, முதல் நாள் முதல் ஷோ பார்த்து புளகம் அடைவது யார்?
பெண்களின் கருப்பையை என் போன்ற பிற பெண்களா கவர முடியும்?
கட்டுக்கோப்புடன் தங்கைகளையும், தமக்கைகளையும் காப்பாற்ற முடியாத ஆண்கள் மற்றவர்கள் மேல் கோபம் கொள்ளுவது ஏன்?
இன்றைக்கே எல்லா ஆண்களும், பெண்களும் உறுதி எடுத்துக்கொள்ளுங்கள்!
"பிராமணரை அன்றி வேறு எவரையும் மணப்பது இல்லை" என்று!
பிறகு கலப்பு மணம் எங்கு, எப்படி நடக்கும் என்று பார்ப்போம்!
நீங்களும் சுரணை கெட்ட பிராமணக் கூட்டத்தில் ஒருவர் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்.
மற்றவர் மீது ஒரு விரலைக் காட்டும் போது மூன்று விரல்கள் உங்களைக் காட்டும் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்!
tamil [COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important]cinemas[/COLOR][/COLOR]
leads brahmin girls to get attracted to NBs. they show brahmin boys are ammaanji and NB boy is brave and hero. these types or hype caused attraction towards NB boys for brahmin girls. ஒரு இனத்தை அழிக்கனும்னா அந்த இனப்பெண்களின் கருப்பைகளைக் கைப்பற்ற வேண்டும் என்பத் போர் தந்திரம். அந்த தந்திரத்தை இன்றைக்கு தமிழகம் சினிமா மூலம் செய்து வருகிறது. அது உங்களுக்குப் புரியாமல் இனம் அழிவது தெரியாமல் ஏதோ data அப்டேட் பன்னுவது போல பண்ணிக்கிறீங்க. இதுல என்ன பெருமையா இருக்கு. பிராமணப் பெண்களைக் காப்பாத்துங்கப்பா! இல்லைன்னா இன்னும் 2 தலைமுறைக்கு அப்புறம் பிராமண சமுதாயமே இருக்காது. அப்பவும் ஏன் இல்லாம போச்சுன்னு அறிவு ஜீவி மாதிரி புள்ளி விபரம் ஆராய்ஞ்சுக்கிட்டு இருக்கும் இந்த சுரனை கெட்ட பிராமண அம்மாஞ்சிக் கூட்டம்!
leads brahmin girls to get attracted to NBs. they show brahmin boys are ammaanji and NB boy is brave and hero. these types or hype caused attraction towards NB boys for brahmin girls. ஒரு இனத்தை அழிக்கனும்னா அந்த இனப்பெண்களின் கருப்பைகளைக் கைப்பற்ற வேண்டும் என்பத் போர் தந்திரம். அந்த தந்திரத்தை இன்றைக்கு தமிழகம் சினிமா மூலம் செய்து வருகிறது. அது உங்களுக்குப் புரியாமல் இனம் அழிவது தெரியாமல் ஏதோ data அப்டேட் பன்னுவது போல பண்ணிக்கிறீங்க. இதுல என்ன பெருமையா இருக்கு. பிராமணப் பெண்களைக் காப்பாத்துங்கப்பா! இல்லைன்னா இன்னும் 2 தலைமுறைக்கு அப்புறம் பிராமண சமுதாயமே இருக்காது. அப்பவும் ஏன் இல்லாம போச்சுன்னு அறிவு ஜீவி மாதிரி புள்ளி விபரம் ஆராய்ஞ்சுக்கிட்டு இருக்கும் இந்த சுரனை கெட்ட பிராமண அம்மாஞ்சிக் கூட்டம்!
Visalakshi Ramani - Today 12:09 PM
பிராமணர்களை அம்மாஞ்சி போலவும் மற்றவர்களை ஹீரோவாகவும் சித்தரிக்கும் திரைப் படங்களை, விசில் அடித்து, முதல் நாள் முதல் ஷோ பார்த்து புளகம் அடைவது யார்?பெண்களின் கருப்பையை என் போன்ற பிற பெண்களா கவர முடியும்?
கட்டுக்கோப்புடன் தங்கைகளையும், தமக்கைகளையும் காப்பாற்ற முடியாத ஆண்கள் மற்றவர்கள் மேல் கோபம் கொள்ளுவது ஏன்?
இன்றைக்கே எல்லா ஆண்களும், பெண்களும் உறுதி எடுத்துக்கொள்ளுங்கள்!
"பிராமணரை அன்றி வேறு எவரையும் மணப்பது இல்லை" என்று!
பிறகு கலப்பு மணம் எங்கு, எப்படி நடக்கும் என்று பார்ப்போம்!
நீங்களும் சுரணை கெட்ட பிராமணக் கூட்டத்தில் ஒருவர் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்.
மற்றவர் மீது ஒரு விரலைக் காட்டும் போது மூன்று விரல்கள் உங்களைக் காட்டும் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்!
ஓலம் புரிகிறது. எவ்வளவு நாட்களுக்கு நாங்களே கஷ்டபடுவது. அவர்களும் கஷ்டபடட்டுமே. அதிகமான பெண்கள் தான் பணவலையில் வீழ்ந்துள்ளர்கள். நம் பெண்கள் நம் ஆண்களை கருதுவது போலே நம் ஆண்கள் என்ன கருதுகிறார்கள் தெரியுமா? மாற்றார் பெண்கள் குடும்பத்துக்கு பக்கபலமாகவும், வருமானத்துக்கு உட்பட்டு குடும்பம் நடத்துகிறார்கள். யாருடன் சேர்வது என்பது அவர்களுடைய சுய உரிமை. மாற்றார் பெண்களும் பிராமணர்கள் ஆஹட்டுமே. வீரர்களுடன் அழிவுப்பாதையில் அவர்கள் செல்லட்டுமே. இடைகால பாதையை விரும்பும் அவர்களுக்கு குறுகிய பார்வை இருப்பதை அவர்களுடைய பெற்றோர்களாலேயே சரிபடுத்த முடியவில்லையே. இதில் பெரும்பாலான பெண்கள் கூறுகிறார்கள் அவர்கள் தாம் சாஹச வாழ்கையை விரும்புகிறோம் என்று. ஒருவேளை 'ரோடீஸ்' ,க்த்ரோன்-கி-கிலாடிபோன்றவற்றை போல வாழ்கையை அமைத்துக்கொள்ள நினைகிறார்கள் போலும். 'விட்டில் பூச்சிகளை' நாம் எதற்கு கொல்லவேண்டும.hayyram - 03-10-2010 12:55 PM
tamil [COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important]cinemas[/COLOR][/COLOR]
leads brahmin girls to get attracted to NBs. they show brahmin boys are ammaanji and NB boy is brave and hero. these types or hype caused attraction towards NB boys for brahmin girls. ஒரு இனத்தை அழிக்கனும்னா அந்த இனப்பெண்களின் கருப்பைகளைக் கைப்பற்ற வேண்டும் என்பத் போர் தந்திரம். அந்த தந்திரத்தை இன்றைக்கு தமிழகம் சினிமா மூலம் செய்து வருகிறது. அது உங்களுக்குப் புரியாமல் இனம் அழிவது தெரியாமல் ஏதோ data அப்டேட் பன்னுவது போல பண்ணிக்கிறீங்க. இதுல என்ன பெருமையா இருக்கு. பிராமணப் பெண்களைக் காப்பாத்துங்கப்பா! இல்லைன்னா இன்னும் 2 தலைமுறைக்கு அப்புறம் பிராமண சமுதாயமே இருக்காது. அப்பவும் ஏன் இல்லாம போச்சுன்னு அறிவு ஜீவி மாதிரி புள்ளி விபரம் ஆராய்ஞ்சுக்கிட்டு இருக்கும் இந்த சுரனை கெட்ட பிராமண அம்மாஞ்சிக் கூட்டம்!
Visalakshi Ramani - Today 12:09 PM
பெண்களின் கருப்பையை என் போன்ற பிற பெண்களா கவர முடியும்?
கட்டுக்கோப்புடன் தங்கைகளையும், தமக்கைகளையும் காப்பாற்ற முடியாத ஆண்கள் மற்றவர்கள் மேல் கோபம் கொள்ளுவது ஏன்?
இன்றைக்கே எல்லா ஆண்களும், பெண்களும் உறுதி எடுத்துக்கொள்ளுங்கள்!
"பிராமணரை அன்றி வேறு எவரையும் மணப்பது இல்லை" என்று!
பிறகு கலப்பு மணம் எங்கு, எப்படி நடக்கும் என்று பார்ப்போம்!
நீங்களும் சுரணை கெட்ட பிராமணக் கூட்டத்தில் ஒருவர் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்.
மற்றவர் மீது ஒரு விரலைக் காட்டும் போது மூன்று விரல்கள் உங்களைக் காட்டும் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்!
.
Visa,
Please may I take issue with you regarding some aspects of your note.
I join you in condemning hayram but I would also like to further explain that the whole approach seems to be bizarre and somewhat unrealistic.
The basic assumption appears to be that tambram girls are ‘innocent’ babes in the woods, lured by the big bad wolves who entice them with passion and panache, and eventually devour them.
‘innocent’ looks may be deceiving but reality, to me appears otherwise. Tambram girls who do well in their schools, endowed with ambition & drive, and now a days, in many cases, a ‘substitute’ for a male progeny not there, and often the conduit of their parents’ ambitions, I think, are pretty street wise when it comes to choosing their partners. They seek compatibility on all aspects and appear to follow darwin’s principle of choosing the one fits closest to their criteria.
Maybe it is not spelled out loudly or in a sheet of paper, but I think, there is also an iota of added thrill to seek mates from someone so similar, yet different. I am saying this from my observation of my own relatives.
\
Those who were brought up in Bombay or elsewhere in the north, an unusually large number of the current generation intheir twenties have opted to marry the locals including Bengalis. The fact that the bengalis’ preference for fish, appears to have no factor in such marriages – either the girls are also fish eaters or they have no objection to a fishy smelly hubby. The boy who married Bengali girl, only one I should say, is a non veg and hence no issue.
Re my nieces growing up in Chennai, I should say, they are very upto date ‘modern’ in their dress (per Chennai standards) and fairly comfortable socializing with boys and all three of them opted for iyer boys – but here is the crux – both these guys are tall, handsome, well paid engineers who have migrated to the U.S. and on the whole, tambram tradition of kudumi/komanam is but an faded imagery in their upbringing.
So, let us drill further and check out who are the whiners and gripers here. To me these appear to be the ammanjis (I have heard worse derogatory terms from my nieces to refer to these types of tambram boys). When I was growing up, even though I went to top private schools of madras, and good universities, I was an ammanji, and seriously feel troubled that had I been 30 years younger, I would have been a brahmachari for life.
I put the fault on the parents. When it comes to the boys, in my days, and even some today, put so many binds and controls on the boys. Why cannot the parents encourage good grooming? Should a mother’s love be expressed only in the dozens of dosais or idlis consumed? Should you not encourage your son to slim healthy fit body? Is a membership to a gym that expensive? If so, why not go to the weight or boxing clubs, when weights and dumbbells are available for practice at nominal cost?
Further let us come to girls? Why discourage the boy from even looking at girls, let alone talking to them? will it affect his mental viriginity? These poor guys, turn 30+ by the time they finish their multi multi education and all these prime years of their life, their seed is wasted and cast away when it should be in the process of enjoyment, if not for procreation. There is a right time, per nature, for certain physical needs and these are suppressed, and so when these guys are ‘marriageable’ per their parents, they are already into a tense mindframe – unsure expectations, non existent sex life and above all possessing a jaded charm, past prime, hint of baldness and at the mercy of parental standards, which do not have any currency today.
Now, should the girls, out of pity or a commitment to tambrahminism hold out for these guys? Some here may say ‘YES’, but visa, I think, in these days, if you do not grab what is rightfully yours, it is not going to be left there for you.
Having poked a few dents, let me come up with suggestions here.
I think right at puberty, the boys should be encouraged in social intermixing with the girls, good grooming, team sportsmanship, along with equal emphasis on their studies. What the idiot parents do not understand, is that the social peripherals, do NOT distract the boys from their primary goals, but act as supplementary tools to boost their self confidence, their presentation and sense of ‘dashing’, absolves them of the ‘nerd’ label and most importantly, makes them viable, challenging and sought after players in the ultimate mating game.
I think folks like hayram missed the boat, or his sons missed the boat. Hence they are appealing to the supposedly holy duty to marry within caste or ultimate destruction of caste. Tambrams as a group will survive and prosper I think, but not tambraminism – which is a good thing for tamil Hinduism.
Visa, I do feel very sorry for those boys. But their whining and griping, appears to me, like that of a little child, who was expecting a bag of sweets for some good behaviour and now denied it. Life is not so simple, is it?
let us attack the root cause.
Thank you.
Please may I take issue with you regarding some aspects of your note.
I join you in condemning hayram but I would also like to further explain that the whole approach seems to be bizarre and somewhat unrealistic.
The basic assumption appears to be that tambram girls are ‘innocent’ babes in the woods, lured by the big bad wolves who entice them with passion and panache, and eventually devour them.
‘innocent’ looks may be deceiving but reality, to me appears otherwise. Tambram girls who do well in their schools, endowed with ambition & drive, and now a days, in many cases, a ‘substitute’ for a male progeny not there, and often the conduit of their parents’ ambitions, I think, are pretty street wise when it comes to choosing their partners. They seek compatibility on all aspects and appear to follow darwin’s principle of choosing the one fits closest to their criteria.
Maybe it is not spelled out loudly or in a sheet of paper, but I think, there is also an iota of added thrill to seek mates from someone so similar, yet different. I am saying this from my observation of my own relatives.
\
Those who were brought up in Bombay or elsewhere in the north, an unusually large number of the current generation intheir twenties have opted to marry the locals including Bengalis. The fact that the bengalis’ preference for fish, appears to have no factor in such marriages – either the girls are also fish eaters or they have no objection to a fishy smelly hubby. The boy who married Bengali girl, only one I should say, is a non veg and hence no issue.
Re my nieces growing up in Chennai, I should say, they are very upto date ‘modern’ in their dress (per Chennai standards) and fairly comfortable socializing with boys and all three of them opted for iyer boys – but here is the crux – both these guys are tall, handsome, well paid engineers who have migrated to the U.S. and on the whole, tambram tradition of kudumi/komanam is but an faded imagery in their upbringing.
So, let us drill further and check out who are the whiners and gripers here. To me these appear to be the ammanjis (I have heard worse derogatory terms from my nieces to refer to these types of tambram boys). When I was growing up, even though I went to top private schools of madras, and good universities, I was an ammanji, and seriously feel troubled that had I been 30 years younger, I would have been a brahmachari for life.
I put the fault on the parents. When it comes to the boys, in my days, and even some today, put so many binds and controls on the boys. Why cannot the parents encourage good grooming? Should a mother’s love be expressed only in the dozens of dosais or idlis consumed? Should you not encourage your son to slim healthy fit body? Is a membership to a gym that expensive? If so, why not go to the weight or boxing clubs, when weights and dumbbells are available for practice at nominal cost?
Further let us come to girls? Why discourage the boy from even looking at girls, let alone talking to them? will it affect his mental viriginity? These poor guys, turn 30+ by the time they finish their multi multi education and all these prime years of their life, their seed is wasted and cast away when it should be in the process of enjoyment, if not for procreation. There is a right time, per nature, for certain physical needs and these are suppressed, and so when these guys are ‘marriageable’ per their parents, they are already into a tense mindframe – unsure expectations, non existent sex life and above all possessing a jaded charm, past prime, hint of baldness and at the mercy of parental standards, which do not have any currency today.
Now, should the girls, out of pity or a commitment to tambrahminism hold out for these guys? Some here may say ‘YES’, but visa, I think, in these days, if you do not grab what is rightfully yours, it is not going to be left there for you.
Having poked a few dents, let me come up with suggestions here.
I think right at puberty, the boys should be encouraged in social intermixing with the girls, good grooming, team sportsmanship, along with equal emphasis on their studies. What the idiot parents do not understand, is that the social peripherals, do NOT distract the boys from their primary goals, but act as supplementary tools to boost their self confidence, their presentation and sense of ‘dashing’, absolves them of the ‘nerd’ label and most importantly, makes them viable, challenging and sought after players in the ultimate mating game.
I think folks like hayram missed the boat, or his sons missed the boat. Hence they are appealing to the supposedly holy duty to marry within caste or ultimate destruction of caste. Tambrams as a group will survive and prosper I think, but not tambraminism – which is a good thing for tamil Hinduism.
Visa, I do feel very sorry for those boys. But their whining and griping, appears to me, like that of a little child, who was expecting a bag of sweets for some good behaviour and now denied it. Life is not so simple, is it?
let us attack the root cause.
Thank you.
Last edited:
Definitely its the other caste people.. there may be brahmins, but they are elitist brahmins on the lines of kamalahasan..
What a logic??
When the whole society assaults the brahmin community, what can they do? You are telling as though the brahmin families had thrown away their women folks in the street..
Its known that brahmin males are the most weak of all communities.. they are the most non-violent species.. do you expect them to take sword and fight in streets like thirumavalavam goshti?
Yes.. but first you have believe caste is NOT wrong.. will you be able to?
Revive the collective identity, and you will feel the difference.. Come out of this individualistic mindset..
Actually, most brahmins were pushed to utter poverty after british conquest.. then few slowly through their intellectual prowess got government jobs and came up in life.. Few brahmins got landlord rights from britishers, and eventhough they lost much, they retained few .. and there are few others, who started business and became enterpreneurs.. like TVS..
And today, in the modern intellectual world, naturally so many brahmins progressed.. but please introspect, how many of those well settled brahmins think of those poor brahmins still suffering as priests with meagre sum of 500rs per month?
What is the use of calling yourself as brahmins, if you do not have the heart to feel the pain of your own community members?
Please throw away those guilt feelings, and start asserting your community psyche, NOT merely by politics.. but through social and cultural aspects..
leave off those caste crusaders from your community, as they are miniscule part.. it is this loud minority noise that is disturbing most of you..
I am a non-brahmin, and i defend the brahmin community vigourously.. If i can, why not brahmins yourself?
I want some clarifications.
Who are the "நாங்களே"?
Who are the "அவர்களும்"?
Who are the "மாற்றார் பெண்கள"?
Who are the " வீரர்"?
which is the "அழிவுப்பாதை"?
If choosing a life partner is the right of everyone, why do we waste time in discussing and disapproving the mixed caste weddings?
Why should we worry that brahmins will become extinct in the next two generations?Will the N.B girls who marry Tambram become brahmins naturally?
There is a community in tamil brahmins known as "VAIKANAM IYENGARS".
Most of the community members are generally black in colour.Majority of the males of this sect work in Temples as Priests.People from this community are hereditary priests in TIRUPATHI, GUNASEKARAM temples.Vadagalai and Thengalai Iyengars do not consider them as their equals.
This community is still very orthodox.Girls from this community who are educated upto graduation level willingly agree to marry boys from their own community who are less educated and working as temple priests in small private temples for a monthly salary of Rs.2000 or so.The 'ego' of the boys donot allow their educated wives to go out for Jobs..Recently I came across a case where a Vaikanam boy (software engineer) is loving an IYER girl(also software engineer).While the girl's parents have given consent the parents of the boy are having reservations.
According to them the boy will become ineligible to do 'PITHRU karyam' to parents if he marry a girl from outside their own community.
The funny part is the boy's father retired as a Class I officer from GOVT of INDIA.
Most of the community members are generally black in colour.Majority of the males of this sect work in Temples as Priests.People from this community are hereditary priests in TIRUPATHI, GUNASEKARAM temples.Vadagalai and Thengalai Iyengars do not consider them as their equals.
This community is still very orthodox.Girls from this community who are educated upto graduation level willingly agree to marry boys from their own community who are less educated and working as temple priests in small private temples for a monthly salary of Rs.2000 or so.The 'ego' of the boys donot allow their educated wives to go out for Jobs..Recently I came across a case where a Vaikanam boy (software engineer) is loving an IYER girl(also software engineer).While the girl's parents have given consent the parents of the boy are having reservations.
According to them the boy will become ineligible to do 'PITHRU karyam' to parents if he marry a girl from outside their own community.
The funny part is the boy's father retired as a Class I officer from GOVT of INDIA.
Last edited:
...BK,
this is the blackmail of the last resort. putting the ghosts of fear courtesy of pithrus. what little minds the tambram is community is endowed wtih. shame on us...
Reading through the thread,it feels like a lot of our people hold ultra-orthodox views bordering on fanaticism. While much is being talked about the loss of culture, the only issue seems to be the loss of status quo, masked in different words. If saving the culture is the only problem, Im sure ways can be worked out.
N
Nara
Guest
From what I have heard ....
They are called "Vaikhanasa" after the Vikhanasa Aghamam. They are temple priests in temples that follow Vaikhanasa Agamam for worship. They are both Vadakalai and Thenkalai Vaikanasa Iyengars. They are quite strict about marrying within Vaikanasam. The Vadakalai and Thenkalai Vaikanasas intermarry, but neither would marry outside Vaikhanasa even within the same kalai.
Cheers!
Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,
Thanks for your long mail.
I agree that the Tambram girls are NOT as innocent as they project to be.
They invariably fall for people in power-political power or money power and for persons with name and fame.
"Forbidden fruit is the sweetest". So the thrill of breaking free from traditions, seeking independence and finding a mate of her choice may also play a vital role in such marriages.
I can understand people preferring Bengali brides. They are so pretty and vivacious.
Do I read an undertone in your statement that tall, handsome Tambram boys drawing fat salary are rare or is it just my imagination?
"Kudumi and Kowpeenam" have been extinct for over a century! In fact the modern kids may not understand these terms
They have to be explained the differences between garments which are called
the " wear and tear" (briefs) as opposed to those which are the "tear and wear"(kowpeenam).
Nerds are intellectuals. They will be respected and loved by the people around them.
We believe that Budhdhi Balam is superior to Buja Balam.
So the priority is given to studies over the body building!
It is said that two women can not coexist in a house. If that is the case with ordinary women, what about two Goddesses?
We hardly find Saraswathi and Lakshmi dwelling in the same house. The stinking rich do not need many degrees but the majority of tambrams do not fall in this category.
They need many degrees, additional qualifications to get a good job to become a prospective groom. So their age advances, by the time they are ready!
Even in USA I found middle aged couples with infant babies. They are just starting their families in late 30s and early 40s!
You said it right! Life has never been so simple as to obey the laws of arithmetic.
We have to educate the persons as to what is more important in life.
So let us attack the causes and not the casualities
with warmest regards,
V.R.
Thanks for your long mail.
I agree that the Tambram girls are NOT as innocent as they project to be.
They invariably fall for people in power-political power or money power and for persons with name and fame.
"Forbidden fruit is the sweetest". So the thrill of breaking free from traditions, seeking independence and finding a mate of her choice may also play a vital role in such marriages.
I can understand people preferring Bengali brides. They are so pretty and vivacious.
Do I read an undertone in your statement that tall, handsome Tambram boys drawing fat salary are rare or is it just my imagination?
"Kudumi and Kowpeenam" have been extinct for over a century! In fact the modern kids may not understand these terms
They have to be explained the differences between garments which are called
the " wear and tear" (briefs) as opposed to those which are the "tear and wear"(kowpeenam).
Nerds are intellectuals. They will be respected and loved by the people around them.
We believe that Budhdhi Balam is superior to Buja Balam.
So the priority is given to studies over the body building!
It is said that two women can not coexist in a house. If that is the case with ordinary women, what about two Goddesses?
We hardly find Saraswathi and Lakshmi dwelling in the same house. The stinking rich do not need many degrees but the majority of tambrams do not fall in this category.
They need many degrees, additional qualifications to get a good job to become a prospective groom. So their age advances, by the time they are ready!
Even in USA I found middle aged couples with infant babies. They are just starting their families in late 30s and early 40s!
You said it right! Life has never been so simple as to obey the laws of arithmetic.
We have to educate the persons as to what is more important in life.
So let us attack the causes and not the casualities
with warmest regards,
V.R.
Dear Mr. Senthil,
If you can sympathize with Tambrams, what makes you think that I am their enemy?
If brahmins are projected as Ammanjis, no one seems to mind it. Why?
Why do boys accept this kind of treatment like timid cows?
There is no logic in aiming that question at me. Naturally the reply will have no logic either.
Girls are not thrown in the streets. They themselves quit their houses in the quiet of the night or boldly walk away defying their parents in broad day light.
Non violence is actually a strength and not a weakness.
I don't understand how the minority can make a noise louder than the majority.
On the one hand people cry that Tambrams are becoming extinct while you have made such a statement:-
"Please throw away those guilt feelings, and start asserting your community psyche, NOT merely by politics.. but through social and cultural aspects.."
I am yet to understand what these words actually mean! They sound like Latin!
Since both of us wish for the welfare of Tambrams, we should not fight each other! Right?
with best wishes,
V.R.
If you can sympathize with Tambrams, what makes you think that I am their enemy?
If brahmins are projected as Ammanjis, no one seems to mind it. Why?
Why do boys accept this kind of treatment like timid cows?
There is no logic in aiming that question at me. Naturally the reply will have no logic either.
Girls are not thrown in the streets. They themselves quit their houses in the quiet of the night or boldly walk away defying their parents in broad day light.
Non violence is actually a strength and not a weakness.
I don't understand how the minority can make a noise louder than the majority.
On the one hand people cry that Tambrams are becoming extinct while you have made such a statement:-
"Please throw away those guilt feelings, and start asserting your community psyche, NOT merely by politics.. but through social and cultural aspects.."
I am yet to understand what these words actually mean! They sound like Latin!
Since both of us wish for the welfare of Tambrams, we should not fight each other! Right?
with best wishes,
V.R.
It is said that people get thing done by "hook or crook"
Now we can add these words also
as getting things done employing " a ghost or fast"
Now we can add these words also
as getting things done employing " a ghost or fast"
@visalakshi..
I did notthink you as enemy.
Even if they mind, what can they do?
Because they dont know rowdyism, groupism, goondaism to threaten others.. you said right.. they are timid cows
The question has logic which mentions that NB guys target brahmin girls for their beauty.. and the answer doesnt have any logic..
Yes.. but what makes these girls to walk away, throwing away all sense of duty? Its because, the collapse of community psyche..
Its both strength and weakeness.. btw, i am not mentioning the dubious non-violence of gandhi.. i am mentioning the real non-violence..
When majority becomes silent..
Read once again..
I think we are NOT fighting.. i am calling for pro-active community effort.. It seems, brahmins can never unite for anything, even if it endagers their very survival..
I did notthink you as enemy.
Even if they mind, what can they do?
Because they dont know rowdyism, groupism, goondaism to threaten others.. you said right.. they are timid cows
The question has logic which mentions that NB guys target brahmin girls for their beauty.. and the answer doesnt have any logic..
Yes.. but what makes these girls to walk away, throwing away all sense of duty? Its because, the collapse of community psyche..
Its both strength and weakeness.. btw, i am not mentioning the dubious non-violence of gandhi.. i am mentioning the real non-violence..
When majority becomes silent..
Read once again..
I think we are NOT fighting.. i am calling for pro-active community effort.. It seems, brahmins can never unite for anything, even if it endagers their very survival..
Visa,
Thank you for your reply.
I did not come across well re ‘ tall handsome tambram boys drawing fat salary’. The point I was emphasizing was that the boys that my nieces selected (all in the past 5 years or less) were good looking, street smart and well poised boys.
These were winners, but secretly the boys’ parents were very happy, as they too are only too aware of the scarcity of tambram girls. My nieces are top notch in everything, and any guy would be lucky to get them. for these were flowers with several drones, and the princesses preferred to chose tambram boys, though I suspect that none of them would have given primary importance to that factor.
These girls are from families, of what you call in marriage ads, as a ‘good balance of east and western values’ and would fit in well with the cultures of TCS or Infosys or Wipro.
Once again, while I agree with you re the concept, that we should attack the causes and not the casualties, I am not so sure how we term the causes. I think too, that the casualities are – the unmarried tambram bachelors but not their parents or the community. So we might agree to disagree on both those critical points.
I have stated clearly what I think are the causes. There is only one cause – the parents and their mindset to poison and stunt the growth of their boys. In these days, it is important to give as much, if not more, attention to the body. This is an age of cosmetics and to ignore it, one would do so only at one’s own peril. Would you not like your daughter to couple with a youth who possess self confidence, style and dash.
To be poised and sophisticated, one does not need to be an Adonis. In fact that may be a handicap. Ordinary, young, rugged, and average natural born looks can be meshed and alchemied together, if properly done, to attractive young men. After all would anyone say Shah Rukh Khan is handsome?
In another thread, ‘Reservation for Brahmins’ I had listed my observations re how our boys’ minds are poisoned from the very early stage with illusions of grandeur. One need not be a psychologist to understand how much of a handicap this would be for the average gifted boys, studies or looks or otherwise. Programmed to aim high, only to come up with frustrations all around. I suspect the non Brahmin communities do not have this hangup.
Again,our girls appear to escape this indoctrination or they have successfully implemented a Teflon non stick effect in their system and do not consider this ‘superiority’ a factor in their upbringing. Though this might be challenged.
Another point, is that I sincerely believe that inter marriage is good for our community and for tamil Hinduism. Casteism has been the bane, which I think, should be thrown to the garbage in this 21st century. Fanatic castestist exclusiveness, to me is the last base appeal of the losing scoundrel, and has hence no place among the arena of the decent and outward looking folks.
I believe that I am in tune with the flow of the times, if only because, I do not feel threatened each time if a hindu marries another hindu, irrespective of which caste or creed is involved. This is good for our religion and for our country, in the long run.
Thank you for your reply.
I did not come across well re ‘ tall handsome tambram boys drawing fat salary’. The point I was emphasizing was that the boys that my nieces selected (all in the past 5 years or less) were good looking, street smart and well poised boys.
These were winners, but secretly the boys’ parents were very happy, as they too are only too aware of the scarcity of tambram girls. My nieces are top notch in everything, and any guy would be lucky to get them. for these were flowers with several drones, and the princesses preferred to chose tambram boys, though I suspect that none of them would have given primary importance to that factor.
These girls are from families, of what you call in marriage ads, as a ‘good balance of east and western values’ and would fit in well with the cultures of TCS or Infosys or Wipro.
Once again, while I agree with you re the concept, that we should attack the causes and not the casualties, I am not so sure how we term the causes. I think too, that the casualities are – the unmarried tambram bachelors but not their parents or the community. So we might agree to disagree on both those critical points.
I have stated clearly what I think are the causes. There is only one cause – the parents and their mindset to poison and stunt the growth of their boys. In these days, it is important to give as much, if not more, attention to the body. This is an age of cosmetics and to ignore it, one would do so only at one’s own peril. Would you not like your daughter to couple with a youth who possess self confidence, style and dash.
To be poised and sophisticated, one does not need to be an Adonis. In fact that may be a handicap. Ordinary, young, rugged, and average natural born looks can be meshed and alchemied together, if properly done, to attractive young men. After all would anyone say Shah Rukh Khan is handsome?
In another thread, ‘Reservation for Brahmins’ I had listed my observations re how our boys’ minds are poisoned from the very early stage with illusions of grandeur. One need not be a psychologist to understand how much of a handicap this would be for the average gifted boys, studies or looks or otherwise. Programmed to aim high, only to come up with frustrations all around. I suspect the non Brahmin communities do not have this hangup.
Again,our girls appear to escape this indoctrination or they have successfully implemented a Teflon non stick effect in their system and do not consider this ‘superiority’ a factor in their upbringing. Though this might be challenged.
Another point, is that I sincerely believe that inter marriage is good for our community and for tamil Hinduism. Casteism has been the bane, which I think, should be thrown to the garbage in this 21st century. Fanatic castestist exclusiveness, to me is the last base appeal of the losing scoundrel, and has hence no place among the arena of the decent and outward looking folks.
I believe that I am in tune with the flow of the times, if only because, I do not feel threatened each time if a hindu marries another hindu, irrespective of which caste or creed is involved. This is good for our religion and for our country, in the long run.
Last edited:
H
hoover
Guest
I think the only answer for ic marriages of girls of brahmin community (all Brahmin accross) is intermarriages among various brahmin community. I am not willing to specify my subcaste and language kunjuppu because it is against my principles. all over india brahmin wear the Yadnyaopvit and our religious scriptures are same and in same language as Sanskrit. When already we are here communicating in English what is the problem in intermarriages of Brahmin of various subcaste. Our mindset is nearabout same. And we are facing same problem of discrimination, hatred and alienation. leaving or distroying our identity by way of intercaste marriages i do not think it is a solution.We will be bold and assertive only when we are united on national level at that time the language difference will be our strength. there are only two groups of people spread all over India, they are Muslim and Brahmin.
kunjuppus concept that brahmin boys are filled with grandeur in childhood. I think its his own thinking. Reality is that brahmin boys get frightened right from childhood due to conditions of our community. let Sharma, Mishra, Ayyangar, Ayyar,Nambudri, Joshi, Jha, Kulkarni, Deshpande, Dwivedi, Trivedi, Chaturvedi, Tivari, Tripathi, Shukla, Yechuri, Bahal, Dahal Dutta, Dixit, Pande, Kaul, Mattu, Ganguly, Mukaharjee united and then watch strength of ours.
kunjuppus concept that brahmin boys are filled with grandeur in childhood. I think its his own thinking. Reality is that brahmin boys get frightened right from childhood due to conditions of our community. let Sharma, Mishra, Ayyangar, Ayyar,Nambudri, Joshi, Jha, Kulkarni, Deshpande, Dwivedi, Trivedi, Chaturvedi, Tivari, Tripathi, Shukla, Yechuri, Bahal, Dahal Dutta, Dixit, Pande, Kaul, Mattu, Ganguly, Mukaharjee united and then watch strength of ours.
Last edited:
N
Nara
Guest
ஐயோ! பெண்கள் வெறும் கருப்பைகள் அல்ல. அவர்களின் கருப்பைகள் மற்றோர் எவருடைய சொத்தும் அல்ல, அதை காப்பாற்றுவதர்க்கு. ஜாதி என்ற பெயரால் பெண்களை சிறையிடுவது மிகக் கொடுமை. நெஞ்சில் உறமும் இன்றி, அதில் சிறுது ஈரமும் இன்றி, பெண்களை உங்கள் ஜாதி வெறிக்கு பலியிட நினைப்பது மிக்க இழிவான எண்ணம்.
ஏன் இந்த குறிகிய மனப்பான்மை? பிராமணர்கள் என்ன கொம்பு முளைத்தவர்களா? நமது தமிழினப் புதுமைப் பெண்கள் இவ்விதமான பிற்போக்கு வாதத்திற்கு என்றும் இணங்க மாட்டாள். அவளை பலவிதமான யுக்திகளைக்கொண்டு ஒடுக்க நீங்கள் முயற்சிக்கலாம். அவற்றிலிருந்து வெற்றியுடன் விடுதலை அடையவேண்டும் என நான் அவர்களை வாழ்த்துகிறேன்.
தாயே, ஜாதி இரண்டொழிய வேறில்லை. பார்ப்பானை ஐயர் என்ற காலம் என்றோ மலை ஏறிவிட்டது. பெண்ணுக்கு ஞானத்தை வைத்தான், மண்ணுக்குள்ளே சில மூடர்கள் நல்ல மாதர் அறிவைக்கெடுத்தார். வற்புறுத்தி பெண்ணைக் கட்டிக் கொடுக்கும் வழக்கத்தைத் தள்ளி மிதித்திடுவோம் என்று கும்மி அடியுங்கள் எங்கள் மாதரசே.
காதலன் ஒருவனைக் கைப்பிடித்தே அவன்
காரியம் யாவினுங் கைகொடுத்து
மாதர் அறங்கள் பழமையைக் காட்டிலும்
மாட்சி பெறச் செய்து வாழ்வமடி
இது ஒரு நல்ல அறிவுறை, நாம் எல்லோரும் கவனித்து செயல்படுத்த வேண்டிய ஒரு கொள்கை, மற்றவருக்குத்தான் அறிவுறை என்பது வேண்டாம்.
அன்புடன் கலந்த நன்றி, மஹாகவி பாரதிக்கு ....
Dear Professor Nara Ji and Srimathi Visalakshi Ramani Ji,
If you do not mind, let me say, I am astounded by both of your ability to converse using high grade Tamil. I left India about 40 years ago, and my personal circumstances left me in a situation where I did not keep up with Tamil. I am finding though that I can follow your conversation. Thank you.
Regards,
KRS
If you do not mind, let me say, I am astounded by both of your ability to converse using high grade Tamil. I left India about 40 years ago, and my personal circumstances left me in a situation where I did not keep up with Tamil. I am finding though that I can follow your conversation. Thank you.
Regards,
KRS
G
ganeshrev
Guest
I am a recent member and thank god, I found somebody who gives a third party view.
Looking at many of the posts , I was wondering how to put across my views in a right way .I find that many people in this forum misinterpret even a normal word and take the topic to a different direction so I was a bit hesitant.
Thanks Rajesh!
Looking at many of the posts , I was wondering how to put across my views in a right way .I find that many people in this forum misinterpret even a normal word and take the topic to a different direction so I was a bit hesitant.
Thanks Rajesh!
Last edited by a moderator:
Dear Mr. Senthil,
There is no unity among brahmins-tmbram or otherwise.
There is no unanimity in their views either!
On one side persons like hayyram lament that the tambram community's extinction is imminent.
On the other hand people sing the praise of inter cast weddings and bless such unions.
I wanted to keep out of this controversy- not because I am incapable of arguing- but because it affects my precarious health and absorbs all my free time like a giant sponge.
But I am dragged in again and again, against my wishes and made into a human punching ball!
Let God guide us in the right path. It is beyond the powers of mere mortals like us!
with the very best wishes and sincere appreciations of your noble heart & thoughts and your rare ability for sympathy & empathy,
V.R.
There is no unity among brahmins-tmbram or otherwise.
There is no unanimity in their views either!
On one side persons like hayyram lament that the tambram community's extinction is imminent.
On the other hand people sing the praise of inter cast weddings and bless such unions.
I wanted to keep out of this controversy- not because I am incapable of arguing- but because it affects my precarious health and absorbs all my free time like a giant sponge.
But I am dragged in again and again, against my wishes and made into a human punching ball!
Let God guide us in the right path. It is beyond the powers of mere mortals like us!
with the very best wishes and sincere appreciations of your noble heart & thoughts and your rare ability for sympathy & empathy,
V.R.
Last edited:
Dear Mr. kunjuppu,
The duty of every parent is to make sure that his (her) son/daughter become self reliant and independent, at an early age.
Over protection is the major crime most parents commit- unknowingly. It always backfires and helps in creating boys, whom people fondly brand as "amma gondu" and "ammanji"
I do not say that we should let our children loose.
But we should give then freedom to think and act. At the same time we must make them understand that we are always available to help / guide /discuss and sort out any problem beyond their scope.
Poise and confidence owe as much to the mental make up of a person as to the physical charm or beauty. So by developing self confidence a person can make himself desirable and attractive- a cool person!
We have to change with the changing time. If i may say so, "we have to go with the flow!"
Time is not far off when we will be happy to see any man getting married to any woman- as he could have chosen another man or an alien to be his wife!
with warm regards,
V.R.
The duty of every parent is to make sure that his (her) son/daughter become self reliant and independent, at an early age.
Over protection is the major crime most parents commit- unknowingly. It always backfires and helps in creating boys, whom people fondly brand as "amma gondu" and "ammanji"
I do not say that we should let our children loose.
But we should give then freedom to think and act. At the same time we must make them understand that we are always available to help / guide /discuss and sort out any problem beyond their scope.
Poise and confidence owe as much to the mental make up of a person as to the physical charm or beauty. So by developing self confidence a person can make himself desirable and attractive- a cool person!
We have to change with the changing time. If i may say so, "we have to go with the flow!"
Time is not far off when we will be happy to see any man getting married to any woman- as he could have chosen another man or an alien to be his wife!
with warm regards,
V.R.
Last edited:
- Status
