Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys

[sriniranga]

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Ashamed of this

Good to see, Now a days western and europians changed their food habbits to Veg, They are comming to our hindu temple.. It is foolish to give up our neat habit.
Please read this we can find our culture


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmins#History

I totally agree with Veekay. There may be few brahmins who eat meat and drink now but the number is growing pretty fast. Western culture is taking over India rapidly. So, it will not be surprising if young generation brahmins take to meat eating and drinking in a large scale. Those days will definitely come.

Brahmins who eat meat and drink should be formally outcasted from the community. That is a general practice in other caste esp. in villages.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys.

Dear Sri KRS.,

I thought of discontinuing myself from this thread for the same reasons mentioned by your good self. But I have one important point to add on this serious subject.

Well, according to my thinking our Brahmin Community is undergoing a great metamorphosis in the levels of our Social and Religious perceptions and values. This has started after the advent of foreigners especially the British into our society. This churning will go on for a few more generations till we settle down and see the reality. You know how we left our way of "simple living and high thinking" in the pursuit of money and external pleasures. We changed our age old values which were assiduously cherished by our forefathers, to the tunes of our foreign masters. First we destroyed our HUF system, Education in Patasalas, Agraharam life, our Age old family Temples, our attachment to villages, mode of dressing, eating etc. Vacuum created by the exit of these old values is now filled up by good and bad of the so called modern forces. We do not know what is in store for Brahmins in this churning. Perhaps some good and some bad will come out of this. There is no use of lamenting on the same now, since the changes cannot be reversed. And it is not fair to blame the present generation of youngsters when they question our "Sampradayam". Because we neither have knowledge nor do have Acharyas to answer them.The same is applicable for other Hindu communities in our Country, only difference is this will take place after some time, because most of them are still attached to Agriculture or business, and the family values are guarded more effectively by these communities than the Brahmins. But be sure the huge multi-nationals will gobble them also in due course.

Only course available is to save all the valuable literature left by our sages and thinkers for the future generations which I hope will be in demand at some time in future.

Namaskarams,
Brahmanyan.

Dear Brahmanyan Ji,

I am in 100% agreement with you. As usual, you have hit the issue nail on it's head.

The concern should always be the welfare of all our children. Even the ones that seemed to speak out of turn on the Tamiltube video.

One thing I noticed is that the parents did not give out logical answers to the questions raised - they were hanging their hat on 'sambradhayam'. I also noticed that some of the youngsters stances seem to have been taken because they have come to realize the hypocrisy of the system. May be they have found some couples having a traditionsl marriage that are sham. Youngsters almost always take a contrarian position when they feel that the ideals they expect in society just shows them hypocrisy. These children are not the first ones to raise a revolutionary stance.

I totally agree with you that the main reason we should be concerned about these inter caste (or inter religion) unions is that it takes an enormous amount of effort to overcome all the difficulties placed before our youngsters life. Love may overcome a lot, but even love can not overcome everything. And what then about infatuation?

Like you, my thoughts are about the welfare of our youngsters, even when they make a mistake. I give a hoot about other peripheral reasons.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Saab]

Dear Brahmanyanji,

You have made certain very valid points.

Regards,

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Sri Saab ,

Feeling Shy ??? About what ?? What in the world makes you think on those lines ????

No Sir, The real reason was i just needed to buy some time to get to know what sort of a person , you may be ,to get into the comfort zone , in order to start sending my personal feelings/ background etc thru pvt msg and you would agree with me to use the pvt msg facility for these reasons as being open and explicit shall definitely end up in heated debates / confrontations etc etc which may be undesired !! ( as history in this forum reveals )

With all due regards , I sincerely believe that " Any Human born in this world has something to learn till the very end of his life and to keep on updating his knowledge base , regardless of the usage of this knowledge for his family / career or in his spiritual quest " ...

The bottom line is what you value in life as being more important , I value living life happily and keeping others happy and my earnest endeavor into our discovering the depths of my religion , comes secondary !

Hope i am crystal clear !

Thanks and Regards !

Dear Sri Vijisesh,

In my last post to you I wrote:
Since you feel shy of explaining to me, may I suggest the following article:

A primer on Hinduism and Hindu way of life
http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=6418

 

[Saab]

Wow Vijisesh, I didn't definitely expect your reaction this way. So I do know now you are not at all shy!

Let's be friends as always and wish you all the best.

 

[vanam9394]

nice

h

Dear Sri KRS.,

I thought of discontinuing myself from this thread for the same reasons mentioned by your good self. But I have one important point to add on this serious subject.

Well, according to my thinking our Brahmin Community is undergoing a great metamorphosis in the levels of our Social and Religious perceptions and values. This has started after the advent of foreigners especially the British into our society. This churning will go on for a few more generations till we settle down and see the reality. You know how we left our way of "simple living and high thinking" in the pursuit of money and external pleasures. We changed our age old values which were assiduously cherished by our forefathers, to the tunes of our foreign masters. First we destroyed our HUF system, Education in Patasalas, Agraharam life, our Age old family Temples, our attachment to villages, mode of dressing, eating etc. Vacuum created by the exit of these old values is now filled up by good and bad of the so called modern forces.

You have very nicely summarized the present situation of Tamil Brahmins...the people responsible for this is none other than Tamil Brahmins themselves..


We do not know what is in store for Brahmins in this churning. Perhaps some good and some bad will come out of this. There is no use of lamenting on the same now, since the changes cannot be reversed. And it is not fair to blame the present generation of youngsters when they question our "Sampradayam". Because we neither have knowledge nor do have Acharyas to answer them.The same is applicable for other Hindu communities in our Country, only difference is this will take place after some time, because most of them are still attached to Agriculture or business, and the family values are guarded more effectively by these communities than the Brahmins. But be sure the huge multi-nationals will gobble them also in due course.

Only course available is to save all the valuable literature left by our sages and thinkers for the future generations which I hope will be in demand at some time in future.

Namaskarams,
Brahmanyan.

 

[sriniranga]

what u mean here is serve ??,Now a days guyes are also praticipate in all the activities Here Wording is mentioned about our culture and boundary among us..
quote=Mythreye;12219]Sorry to interfere in this thread... May i Know y is that always women are pointed here?? Are brahmin guys not marrying NB gals... if you SIL is marrying a NB guy, now please dont point to most of the community gals on the same...

i would like to comment on what u have said...



Do u think that we should always digest whatever is being done to us??? Now we are "Sold" to men as "slaves" by a marriage... please refrain from such comments ... if you want us to serve the way the older generation has served, i am sorry you have entered a wrong era... :mad2:[/quote]

 

[navy-eswaran]

dear sir/madam,
there was a time when women were holding exalted positions. time and again in all religions men somehow trampled on their rights and mentally subjugated them by breaking them mentally (by emotional blackmail). the ills of our present days cannot be solely put on women(again).(our goddess attached to the various sankara peethams are the examples of matriarchal superiority of yester years.)???
thanks regards
eswaran

 

[S. Krishnamoorthy]

In my opinion, there is no use for the parents lamenting when the girls or boys of the community rebel.
Many would have noticed the deliberate and biased column in the so-called national daily "Mush register".
One of the couples always belongs to the Hindu religion while the other is invariably a muslim or christian.
You read classified advertisement column under the heading"change of name" in NIE or peruse the Government Gazette. You and I may be shocked to notice the percentage of Hindu boys and girls converting to other religions for the sake of marrying. The seculars opine that this is a natural phenomena evolving out of the churning of the society. For every Hindu girl you loose to other religion, you concede the gain of at least 100 members of the religion to which he or she is converted. Those who are concerned shoud take note of the reality. I would rather prefer my daughter marrying a non-brahmin Hindu than marrying a Muslim or Christian and opting for conversion.
S. Krishnamoorthy

 

[vijisesh]

Sorry for the misunderstanding !

Dear Saab ji,

I am Sorry for being impulsive and aggressive in my earlier response .
To be frank with you , NONE of the ASPIRANTS seeking to learn and discover more about our religion need to feel shy and as can be seen from this site , are definitely far from being SHY to shoot questions and seek more and more !

Some people who consider themselves to be AUTHORITIES of OUR RELIGION may at certain times mock the poor learner , by using sophisticated vedic language or by referring to clause so and so and para so and so of any veda or upanishad ! to prove their dominance or superiority . But they should not forget that although they are a step ahead in knowing more about our religious scripts they may fall short of the Aspirant, who may already be practicing the virtues of the preachings of these texts without even knowing about it!
Using the Knowledge and Wisdom into practice is more important than knowing about something !

It is high time that people with a proper understanding start contributing EFFECTIVE QUOTES from our religious text , supporting the discussion of the thread , for the others to benefit ! This is strictly being followed by Shri Nachinarkiniyan ji , Shri ranganathan ji , Shri Brahmanyan ji and Shri KRS ji as per my observation - Thanks to them !

Thanks for the friendly gesture and sorry for reading your words wrong !

Regards.........

Wow Vijisesh, I didn't definitely expect your reaction this way. So I do know now you are not at all shy!

Let's be friends as always and wish you all the best.

 

[Saab]

Dear Vijisesh,

I know you to be a very fine young man witty and charming in your posting! No one can mistake you. So let's forget what happened.

There is this unavoidable generation gap that may cause misunderstanding.

I am not claiming to be an authority. To the extent I do know I am willing to share my knowledge. Take what you like and leave that you don't.

In our ancient system imparting of knowledge is always on one to one basis because each individual has his own unique questions for ignorance is unique! In our system even though essentially both Jeeva and Easwara is one and the same, yet they are different on the basis of their knowledge for the jeeva is 'kinjignan' (of little knowledge) and Easwara is 'sarvagnan' (omnicient). That is why each jeeva being ignorant is unique. This is why we say ignorance is unique! The western educational system in its haste does not address this anamoly. To the extent it is useful we can take it but we should not rely on it completely. The individuality in each one will ultimately assert and it will find its own answer! Our Upanishad tells a story of the Devas, Asuras and Naras who went to Prajapathy and asked Him as to which is best. Prajapathy answered "Da"! Devas, Asuras and Naras went back satisfied but each interpreted what "Da" is supposed to mean in their own different ways!

It is also true that we do learn unwittingly something that gets ingrained and becomes the cause of our 'idealogy'. Our ancients knew this and found that the method of vichara or inquiry or question and answer to be the best for educating people. In contrast, the modern method is to 'preach from the pulpit'. This feeds to the emotional appeal and mostly misses out on moot points.

So my dear friend, ask me anything and I will tell you what I know. Remember there is always something one does not know. However there is always a pond and an ocean though both contains water. You would know as you come in contact with each.

Regards,

 

[kunjuppu]

I also noticed that some of the youngsters stances seem to have been taken because they have come to realize the hypocrisy of the system. ... Youngsters almost always take a contrarian position when they feel that the ideals they expect in society just shows them hypocrisy. These children are not the first ones to raise a revolutionary stance. .

happy,

i am with you. where would one draw the line between orthodoxy/traditon (respect for) and common sense/decency.

i myself come from a family where till my grandparents' generation, the widows were shorn of their hand and condemned to a corner of the house. my grandparents' household was one such, and no amount of queries from a madras brought up boy would elucidate any rational explanation for this or many such other irrational behaviour in the name of religious sampradayam and which appear to deny the very concept of human dignity.

so much so, while i have no issues re my identity, i have had problems with my faith. it is my dilemma, and in the context of our socio religious set up, i do not wish to repeat rituals and face the same cynical scrutiny from my children. and get alienated.

whatever answers that are provided for support of tradition, must be in tune and harmony with our current ever changing world. otherwise, we are in constant conflict between our religious beliefs/convictions/practices and our other secular self.

to me, the explanations provided to me were 'obey it as otherwise you are not a brahmin'. this did not appeal to me, and when i grew up, i transformed from an unwilling reluctant participant to a lapsed one. i felt i had a choice.

good observation happy. good stuff !!

 

[KRS]

Dear happyhindu Ji,

I have enormous sympathy and respect for the TB parents of today, in India. They want to raise their children in a manner that would give them the best chance of success in today's world, yet they are in between yesterday's world and today's world. On top of it, we as Brahmins carry the burden of the 'chosen people' and so we are paying the price.

Ours is a small community, destined to get smaller. Believe me, I am not blaming anyone. I for one know how easy it is to marry outside one's community in today's world. Unfortunately, this is the reality and it will not be an exception for too long.

Unless as a community we consciously help our children, who we raise with 'free will' instilled in their minds, to look within our community for their spousal choices, the marriage-drain will only mushroom.

Pranams,
KRS

I also noticed that some of the youngsters stances seem to have been taken because they have come to realize the hypocrisy of the system. May be they have found some couples having a traditionsl marriage that are sham. Youngsters almost always take a contrarian position when they feel that the ideals they expect in society just shows them hypocrisy. These children are not the first ones to raise a revolutionary stance.

Dear KRS-ji,
How very true you are. Some younsters also opt for a stable live-in relationship rather than marriage to prove several things to the older generation.

The older generation cud hv done with some better explaning when the girl spoke against the thali sampradayam. Thali seems to have become part of the wedding rituals in later times and was not there in BC times supposedly. Lets say a gynae goes in and out of the operating theatre and decides not to wear a thali once for all to save herself from the hassle of removing and wearing it again and again. Does that mean she does not love her husband and children? Does that mean that if someone proposes to someone then it is some sort of a 'risk'? How on earth do such things become a 'risk'? If the show chose the younsters for their entertainment value because of their beliefs they cud hv chosen a few entertaining elders as well instead of all of them holding on to the same views.

 

[adiyean]

Are Brahmin Boys Cowards ?
Dear Friends,
Once Again in
Vijay TV's "Neeya Naana" program (broadcasted on 30/5/2008 between 5.00 to 5.30 PM) on what the young girls and boys look forward to in respect of the future spouse (same topic as earlier but hopefully with different persons).
In that show, one girl who announced herself hailing from a Brahmin community, expressed that she would marry only a NB boy. She stated the following reasons as 1. Brahmin boys are not courageous (she meant explicitly Brahmin boys are cowards) and 2. She wanted to marry only a courageous person.
Normally I don't have time to see TV programmes. It is so happened today when I had a chance to see Vijay TV; that too because of the topic"Neeya Nana "name which I had read in this forum earlier.
I wanted to discuss this in different thread , i.e Brahmins and the Tamil Society but for the sake of completeness of this thread I have mentioned here. I feel though this kind of opinionabout Brahmins in the tamil society is not new, it appears serious for me as it is expressed from a girl of our own community.
I would like to have the views, reasons,future of young brahmins in the tamil society and any probable solutions from the elite members of the forum. By the way I stay outside TN since long.
Regards,
Adiyean

 

[sriniranga]

got irritated

That girl make our entire community to irrutate and she have not accepted her self as a bramin (from the good culture)

Are Brahmin Boys Cowards ?
Dear Friends,
Once Again in
Vijay TV's "Neeya Naana" program (broadcasted on 30/5/2008 between 5.00 to 5.30 PM) on what the young girls and boys look forward to in respect of the future spouse (same topic as earlier but hopefully with different persons).
In that show, one girl who announced herself hailing from a Brahmin community, expressed that she would marry only a NB boy. She stated the following reasons as 1. Brahmin boys are not courageous (she meant explicitly Brahmin boys are cowards) and 2. She wanted to marry only a courageous person.
Normally I don't have time to see TV programmes. It is so happened today when I had a chance to see Vijay TV; that too because of the topic"Neeya Nana "name which I had read in this forum earlier.
I wanted to discuss this in different thread , i.e Brahmins and the Tamil Society but for the sake of completeness of this thread I have mentioned here. I feel though this kind of opinionabout Brahmins in the tamil society is not new, it appears serious for me as it is expressed from a girl of our own community.
I would like to have the views, reasons,future of young brahmins in the tamil society and any probable solutions from the elite members of the forum. By the way I stay outside TN since long.
Regards,
Adiyean

 

[gayathriseshadri]

it is the total failure of parents since they totally failed to monitor their daughter's at the right time so they deserve for the events

 

[kunjuppu]

i have not yet seen the video. it will turn up in youtube sometime soon. i saw a similar video a few months ago, on a related topic, and girls giving their viewpoint.

it was something to do with marrying within their own caste, i believe.

i can understand the apprehension, disgust and to an extent, dismay, felt by the readers who have posted their comments, and the public who might be in agreement with the same.

my first reaction would not be dissimilar to this.

i am forced think further, and step through some related thoughts.

i think there is an issue with finding eligible iyer girls for our boys, using the traditional methods. there aren't simply many girls around, and the girls who are, have set standards, which the boys are unable or unwilling to fulfill. this too is reality.

in my initial foray into this forum, i had posted some perspectives - 03-28-2008, 09:20 PM in the new threats to hinduism threat, some thoughts about our community, as perceived in this forum.

at that time, i had mentioned about my hopes and aspirations for our younger generation. in that context i had mentioned that in addition to a flourishing brain, the development of the brawn is just as important.

we have new generations growing up with values, which are extension of our liberal views, except that they appear to proceed at a pace, which is beyond our sense of proprietary or reasonableness.

such appears to be the case, where our girls have a penchant of boys out of our caste. for the first time in our history, our girls truly have the same opportunities as our boys. they do us proud by their achievements. we should not look with suspicion at their earning power or their expression of confidence.

we might want to ponder, as to some causes for this desire for out of caste relationships.

personally, i do not think there is one catch-all reason for if there is indeed only one, we can attempt to address the issue.

i think, it is a combination of these and others which others may provide
- a taste for the forbidden fruit
- desire to chose their own mate
- sense of compatibility based on social behaviour
- assertiveness
- fed up with the secondary status that a girl automatically assumes at marriage time, by the sheer fact, that it is the girl's family that foots the wedding expenses
- unwillingness to the social norms prevalent in our community, that the earning girl's salary now belongs to the boy and boy's family
- the nerdy look of our boys

i would like to comment on the last point. we, as a community, i think, tend to restrict the thought and social process of our boys to an extent, that we mentally eunuchize them. the focus is always on studies and marks. if games are permitted, it is cricket or tt. atleast in my opinion.

i think we also need to cultivate the inborn self defensive aggression in them. this is a very important tool in dealing with a multi polar multi ethnic world. how we project ourselves is the key to our success, whether it be jobwise, or cupidwise.

a well developed body is a welcome extension to a well developed mind. let us encourage them to join the gyms and group sports like hockey or soccer. a dancing bicep and a sixpack abs is a source of attraction to a pretty damsel. let us even the playing field for our boys. let the nerdy looks with glasses, skinny ribcage protruding chests or the floppy sagging dhondhis be a thing of the past.

let us encourage confidence, panache, bravado and a sense of flashiness in our boys. and sit back and watch the results.

i think to blame the girls' upbringing is not quite right or fair to the girls' parents.

thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

i wish i had said this...

.. found in the web...

Leave it to them





Gone are the days, fortunately in many cases, when the father of a teenage girl,used to carry his daughter's horoscope, on a selected auspicious day and auspicious time, with the anxiety of a patient entering the surgical ward, to the entrance of the house of an eligible bachelor, clear his throat to draw the attention of the head of the family and place reverently, the yellow-cornered paper which he had brought, at his hands and wait for a favorable reply for weeks, worrying and praying all the Gods known to him.

Gone or the days, fortunately in many cases, when the date of the wedding was announced, after discussion and agreement on dowry, the weight and size of the ornaments, the number and size of the brass, copper and silver vessels, clothes and other movable articles to be handed over to the bridegroom's party, the father of the girl ran like a mad dog, to acquire the cash and materials required for the wedding. Those who are lamenting about the improvement in the educational and consequently the economic status of the present day girls are perhaps unaware of the mental and physical deprivation the parents of the girls had undergone, as recently as a couple of decades ago. How will they then be aware of the devastation of the young women of the earlier generations,who were forced to marry widowers of double or triple their age, became widows before reaching their puberty or a few years later , tonsured their head, broke their bangles, discarded all good things and lived like a condemned prisoner within the four walls of their husband's house? The 'athai' of my Pitchumani story, no doubt is a fictional character but the comments received from the readers of that story was moving -yes, in every village if not in every house there were similar athais or patties, not long ago. Our society was responsible for the tsunami in their life, though we took refuge under the innocent God's necessity to punish them for the deeds of their past life. And now, we boast about the glory of the gone golden era of our community! And now, when the present generation stand on their own legs and want to live their life according to their own light and direction, we fret and fume as if some one is frying Guntur chillies in our kitchen! Our community has suffered enough of poverty and humiliation. Be happy that at least some are prospering.


Our children are grown up, educated, exposed to the good and bad things of the world much earlier than us and much more than us. Leave the choice of their life partners to them. If your guidance is sought in the the selection, don't start your priority list with the horoscope or the name of the Rishy written therein, who lived several centuries ago and presumably started your family in the Sindu or Brahmaputra valley or the sub groups formed as recently as a century ago when we migrated to the present place. Start with the boy or girl, who form the core of the marriage. Then your daughter or son will be lucky to get married,mostly as per your and their choice, before they are 28 or 30.Otherwise, they will curse you through out their life, if they are not smart enough to find their own partners. And please, don't tell your daughter-in-law, when she enters your house for the first time that the main purpose of bringing her there is to hold a few blades of dry grass standing behind your son to sweep the path of the ancestors when they ascended the Heaven. That is not the purpose of having a wife and your son knows that. And you also know that.


And when your children prepare architectural sketches to develop colonies in the Moon or Mars, don't talk to them about Rahu or Gulikan. The journey to other planets, you will agree , is much more arduous and risky than your visiting the cloth shop or native village and Rahukalam is not definitely one of the items in their check list, before commencing the long journey.

I presume that our interest should be only in having a naughty and healthy grand child and I am sure that our children know how to make that gift to us. So, Leave it to them.

 

[malgova.mango]

Addressing the tradionalists...

Shiva Mahapuranam says..

Non-performance of Agni-hotram results in "Veera Hatti" dosham.

Regards

 

[Ramaa]

kunjuppu,

I presume that our interest should be only in having a naughty and healthy grand child and I am sure that our children know how to make that gift to us. So, Leave it to them.

I get the idea that you would mind having grand children who are born to parents who have abandoned Hinduism, who have joined Christianity or Islam or even agnosticism.

Pray tell me if you have any other use with those grand-children other than being live toys for you to play with?

 

[kunjuppu]

thanks ramaa, happy.

there is no single reason. nor single solution.

whatever works. life is too short to be spent in misery, especially acquired misery.

 

[prabhakaran123]

brahmin girls maarrying nonbrahmin boys

dt.1.6.20008

I would like to state that this is phenomena of love marirage is not restricted to any one sect. It is worldwide phenomena.

The inter caste and inter religious mariages are hapening time immemorial.

Why Akbar maried a Hindu rajput girl.

One of the Peshwas (who ruled Pune), fell in Love with a muslim women called Mastani, it is afactor of attraction and love between twopersons.

Love does not recognize cast colour creed.

Wy in Brahmins even the sagotra mariages are frowned upon.

It is true that no parent will like their daughter or son to go for their independanat decision on mariage.

How many poor Brahmin girls remain unmaried or married as second wife on account of poverty and the prevalent dowry system.

In our comunity there is an old adage, that even a king who has given birth to 5 daughters will go pauper after performing their mariage.( 5 petha rasanum andi avan)

The cause of inter cast matriage and inter religious mariages had to be analysed in a different perspective.

Why I know a Brahmin Boy and brahmin girl (both devout brahmins) and folowd brahminical culture tothe core loved each other. But their love is not easily accepted by their family on account of teh fact that they belong to sagotras.

How many daughtes of Gurukals live in poverty that force them to marry out of their caste. What the rich in the society did for them.

the Evils of dowry, the evils of rigid orthodoxism, the poverty prevailing among the poor brahmins are the main reasons for this exodus.

Unless we attempt to solve these basic problems we cannot remedy the situation.

At least let us not bind brahmin girl marrying a brahmin boy on the small pretext of sagothram and various inter divison such as vadama, brahacharanam, ashtasastram, etc. Let us give more importance to understanding of mind rather than jadagam.

This will partly remedy the situation.


Prabhakaran.

 

[Ramaa]

kunjuppu,

whatever works. life is too short to be spent in misery, especially acquired misery.

People do live for a lot more than this lowest common denominator of yours. As I read your long winding posting I found it to be a miserable treatise on capitulationism. Sorry my dear friend, there is no misery involved in living for values. In fact there is a lot of satisfaction in one's life in upholding values that are not material based.

Hope you realize that what works for you may not work for others. People do have better demand on their-life time than the mere existence in shame brushed under the carpet.

I don't think I can change your views by any aruments.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

I think that this is the first time I have addressed you directly in this Forum. I have declared that I would not post here anymore, but would make an exception if certain people attack personally or spread untruths. I am taking this opportunity to resolve three such occurences:

1. Look at the above posting! You are, in my opinion, a very dignified presence in this Forum, always willing to engage in measured conversation with folks who differ from you views. In fact, I have long admired that trait of yours, which I lack. However, look at the above response!

"People do live for a lot more than this lowest common denominator of yours. As I read your long winding posting I found it to be a miserable treatise on capitulationism"

There is no respect to your position nor your person! Lowest Common Denominator! Miserable Treatise! The problem is that this person thinks that he is the sole guardian of the values of Hinduism! He does not recognize (or does not want to recognize) the flow of time and culture through times. Even though his own personal life makes it possible for him to live in the modern world, he does not recognize that he is a thirty percenter (I really think he is less than that, judging from his responses, but then I am in a charitable mood). Why waste time responding to such time frozen, thrown back comments? At least Al-Quaida leaders live in caves. This person lives in a modern city, does not follow Brahminical Dharma as prescribed, yet pronounces judgements as though he is an Acharya! And, by the way, I hope this person knows you are a Canadian - he is at anytime now liable to revoke your Hinduship, if you talk back!

2. I feel sorry for Sri Happyhindu Ji. Here is a non-brahmin, coming in to our midsts, trying to tell us how we can communicate with the other side. What does he get in response? A person telling him that he is like Lord Rama and so would not engage him! He is treated with ideas on Varnas, as though they are set in concrete! It does not matter that such assertions are contrary to the debates going on within the Hindu community. It does not matter that real life experiences are contrary to what these people say! It does not matter that our Upanishads say something different to what they say! They cling on to a few interpretations that agree with their views and dismiss all other views as either irrelevant or wrong!

3. A person states that 'secularism must be uprooted in India'! By the way, Sri Dalai Lama just released a statement that the 'tolerance of India towards other religions should be emulated by all countries'. He specifically mentions this attribute as 'secularism'. Those people who call for the downfall of true secularism in India do so only without of any deep thinking about what India is today or with the wishful thinking that India will suddenly become all Hindu. I will call all of our members to study the example of Nepal. I will also request all our members to study the example of Sri Lanka which wanted to impose majority wishes on a minority, which was not ready or willing to accept such a majority rule!

Pranams,
KRS

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you krs.

i am very much aware of ramaa and a few other people and their views. i am with you 100% in your gauging of ramaa's last posting.

sir, i will not give up. i do not want to abandon this forum, not only for myself, but for several others here, who read, not post.

altenate views must heard, and if we are not in this forum, it becomes a monotony of a single viewpoint. not good. in this, i miss you, nacchi. hope happyhindu remains with us.

wisdom of eons like foxfire, hari1972 et al. are not heard here any more. sad.

i have found that when it comes to religion and politician, people hold strong views. the more traditonal the view, the stronger it is. any appearance of deviation issues forth responses, which many a times, crosses the boundary between attacking the message and the messenger.

in some other forum, i have been guilty of the same. but i hope i have learned, and carried on my best behaviour here. this forum is ours, because, if our parents were brahmins, in the eyes of the indian government we are one.

i can understand the hostile and somewhat personal stand of ramaa. but i think i have the wherewithal to persevere and come across to explain my viewpoints. as ramaa knows, i have posted my personal experiences here, which i have not done anywhere else, because i felt that people could identify with my experiences.

i have moved through various stages of orthodoxy to where i am now. no regrets. it has been born out of experience. so when ramaa or someone else implies a touch of hereticism, i have to disagree.

i would like to reiterate here that my respect for ramaa still stands. he is a learned and erudite man re our traditions. i am not. the way life is, we will agree on some, and disagree the rest. that does not make either of us evil persons. this last point is what i hope to get across over time.

i am hopeful, that over time, ramaa will appreciate the benefit of diveristy of views - we can differ on views, but we should have regard and respect for each other. this appreciateion, in my opinion, is the mark of a true gentleman. i am quite sure, ramaa will not fail me in my expectations.

it is not my intention to change ramaa's views on subjects. i hear them too well. it is my aim, that he too should hear me, query me wherever needed, and come to appreciate the fact that my view is just as important and valid as his. no one human has a monopoly to truth. put it simply, i would like to be friends with ramaa. friends can differ on views. even family members differ all the time. that is a fact.

it does not matter what our social views and views on our tradition is. this forum belongs to the entire range 0% to 99%. means you krs and me are there somewhere. . there is a rightful place in it for all of us and why should we give it up? the admin are the only folks who can banish us. in the absence of that, let us all romp and have fun, while trading views.

should i seek a job in india, i will face the same challenges which other tamil brahmins face. i believe the best way to meet those challenges, is to hit them headlong, adapt, flow with the times, and be part of the tamil community. i consider myself tamil, hindu, not casteist, in that order. but legally in india i am a tamil brahmin. that is the law.

i do request you to come back, so that you and i can set example of carrying lively discussion based on the issues and topics, and set some examples to others as to how to separate the issue from person. i know for sure, we will agree on some, disagree on others and agree to disagree on a few. but let me assure, our regard and respect for each other will remain. i look forward to a cyber coffee or beer with you - your preference.

thank you again sir, and looking forward to a favourable reply from you.