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Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

Iyest

Active member
Why do you feel he did NOT show step by step to reach the same conclusion and all these can not be understood by common man?

There is something called surrender

The greatest stumbling block in surrender is the over analytical mind.
In fact the common man might actually grasp jnaana faster than a scientific mind which just wont shut

Indeed.

The mind refuses to surrender. That is the only issue. That is why it invents theories like ‘ I am only a beginner’, ‘Realisation is far away in the distant future’, ‘ I must do this practice and that practice and progress slowly’ and so on and on. It is a cunning way to continue its existence. It will never heed genuine masters who point to Realisation here and now. Instead it will run after the dime a dozen street corner gurus who will keep it happily engaged in doing something or the other for a lifetime.
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: If I stay at the root of the mind or abide as pure Subjective Consciousness, will I Realise the Self?

B: The question shows that the arbitrary mental conceptualisation, ‘Realising the Self’, is still present in the mind. Staying in the root of the mind should be a matter of course; it must be the natural state. On the other hand, you are trying to deliberately do it so that you can thereby gain the reward you call ‘ Self Realisation’. Can it work? No. Stillness cannot be reached with the mind. Water cannot be made dry water. Subside the mind and Stillness alone is left over. People want to know how this may be done. It cannot be done because doing is the anti-thesis of it. J.K. has said - “ Total negation is the essence of the positive.” Do not do anything with the mind. That is Realisation. Doing cannot bring about non-doing; absence of doing is known as non-doing. Non-doing is not an exotic variety of doing; it is simply not doing. Abstinence from or relinquishment of thought is not a positive act. It should therefore not require to be attended to with effort or volition. If there is any effort or volition involved you are still stuck in the realm of doing. The transition from the realm of doing to that of non-doing should be a natural collapse. It is pointless if forced.

- Aham Sphurana, August 10, 1936
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Agreed, then why are not we seeing hundreds and thousands of people following him and report here that we follow his shown path and are happy. Here is what we do to reach that point?
We can also say, Lord Kirshana is punishing us for our sins and thus we argue but do not share the step by step approach a given person has taken to reach that devine state. Arguments are OK for ego satisfaction, but not for inner awakening. Dive kowledge invades only those who studied our system - elite?
 

Iyest

Active member
Agreed, then why are not we seeing hundreds and thousands of people following him and report here that we follow his shown path and are happy. Here is what we do to reach that point?

The mind can only survive by being extroverted. Without delving inwards into the fundamental question ‘Who am I?’ it is futile to talk about other people and their happiness, sorrow, the steps they followed or anything else.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Nice. But have you attained that stage? How did you ahcieve that? May be you can share your insights and methods so that ohers can benefit. Making general statement or quoting other's preaching does not help. But if that is only what is left, then so it be.
 

Iyest

Active member
Nice. But have you attained that stage? How did you ahcieve that? May be you can share your insights and methods so that ohers can benefit. Making general statement or quoting other's preaching does not help. But if that is only what is left, then so it be.

So long as one is extroverted one is stuck with ‘others’ and concerned only about the failures and attainments of others. The mind will do everything possible to avoid turning inwards. So be it.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Arguments do not help. Can you list all you have done :step-by-step, your failoures and your success and how you have reached the ultimate. What we need is not an opinion, but a description of how that is achieved so that others can at least try that path. No one can read the mind of Ramana, thus can not argue that he spelled out every thing. Rain drops fall on desert too without joing the rivers and the sea. Thus, the idea of "some how one will surrender, one will get devine knowledge. etc., are just wishful thinking unless one can document how he or she did it. What is needed for a common man is a well laid path to reach the devine. If the pot is borken devine will not invade, otherwise by now the whole world would be peacefla an immersed in devine knowledge and devoid of normal thinking.
What is missing in these arguments is "the writer" does not openly and clearly tell what steps he or she took and how did he or she attined the goal. That is the lesson people expect and not speculations and arguements. But it is right of every one to argue as usual and the news dies down. But that may be also be the part of missing devine knowledge not reaching every one or make them aware somehow(?) that it was given to them already.
What Kuran says, Geetha says, Shankara says etc., are also hearsay from publications and not a real narraive of personal attainment of the eternal bliss. That is what being searched in these forums.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Agreed, then why are not we seeing hundreds and thousands of people following him and report here that we follow his shown path and are happy. Here is what we do to reach that point?
We can also say, Lord Kirshana is punishing us for our sins and thus we argue but do not share the step by step approach a given person has taken to reach that devine state. Arguments are OK for ego satisfaction, but not for inner awakening. Dive kowledge invades only those who studied our system - elite?
Why are you counting?
There is no rule that hundreds or thousands should follow him.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Arguments do not help. Can you list all you have done :step-by-step, your failoures and your success and how you have reached the ultimate. What we need is not an opinion, but a description of how that is achieved so that others can at least try that path. No one can read the mind of Ramana, thus can not argue that he spelled out every thing. Rain drops fall on desert too without joing the rivers and the sea. Thus, the idea of "some how one will surrender, one will get devine knowledge. etc., are just wishful thinking unless one can document how he or she did it. What is needed for a common man is a well laid path to reach the devine. If the pot is borken devine will not invade, otherwise by now the whole world would be peacefla an immersed in devine knowledge and devoid of normal thinking.
What is missing in these arguments is "the writer" does not openly and clearly tell what steps he or she took and how did he or she attined the goal. That is the lesson people expect and not speculations and arguements. But it is right of every one to argue as usual and the news dies down. But that may be also be the part of missing devine knowledge not reaching every one or make them aware somehow(?) that it was given to them already.
What Kuran says, Geetha says, Shankara says etc., are also hearsay from publications and not a real narraive of personal attainment of the eternal bliss. That is what being searched in these forums.
Do not underestimate the common man..why are you setting rules on what the common man should do or should not do?

Btw, why dont you start a new thread in General Discussion, I kind of feel bad to disturb the sanctity of this thread.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Why do you feel he did NOT show step by step to reach the same conclusion and all these can not be understood by common man?

There is something called surrender and UPANISHAD.
Upanishad means sitting near.
So you either sit near to God in your heart and pray to Him or you sit near a Guru and listen with your heart and not with your mind.

All those who sat "near" Ramana Maharishi would have been "tuned" by his frequency and some amount of inner engineering would have taken place in accordance to their karmic capability.



There is a verse in the Quran that states:

"He sends water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The esoteric meaning of this is whatever knowledge sent down to a person is in accordance with his capacity to perceive it.

So we do know each person differs.
Two people sitting in front of the same Guru might subtly imbibe different measures of clarity and knowledge.

But the prerequisite is surrender ..without that nothing works.
Those who prefer a Guru surrender to a Guru.
Those who prefer God surrender to God.
Both lead to inner engineering.

One might ask "since Ramana Maharishi is no more around so one cant physically sit near him..well one can visit his ashram because the frequency of realized souls still pervade a place even though they have left the place physically and one may ask..what about those who cant visit the ashram?..well, one can read the books with the concept of surrender to Ramana Maharishi and patiently wait for the water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The greatest stumbling block in surrender is the over analytical mind.
In fact the common man might actually grasp jnaana faster than a scientific mind which just wont shut down its intellectualization.
Jnana yoga is neither analysis nor is it blind faith.
It is about being a receptacle to allow information from God or Guru to download into our heart.

To be in the receptacle state isnt easy...takes time and perserverance , hence we find in the Gita "śhraddhāvān labhate jñānaṁ"

One needs to be ready to see all our pre conceived notions break down like a town invaded by a King which demolishes and destroys all the town's high ranking people and establishes a new reign.

A verse in the Quran states "Indeed kings - when they enter a city, they ruin it and render the honored of its people humbled. And thus do they do"

The esoteric meaning is that when Divine knowledge invades our system, it breaks down all pre conceived mind based knowledge and humbles our pride and ego and by this a new reign of divine knowledge rules us.


Therefore do NOT feel that Ramana Maharishi did not spell out everything for all those who surrendered to him.
Rain drops of his knowledge would have fallen on those who surrendered to him in ways we might not understand yet.
Brilliant!
 

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka good and valid points. There is a sea of difference between following a step by step approach and surrendering oneself. The route of algorithmic approach towards knowledge is different and at some point things have to seen in a bigger perspective as that alone can produce the spark to consume higher truths.

Step by step approach has limitations. There is a lot that needs to be implicitly understood between two steps.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I am on the camp who believes good understanding of reality has to be in place before plunging into the pragmatics of helping society on a big scale. I have done little to society so far but preparing the ground for it. I hope to plunge soon. Understanding of spirituality and reading of great spiritual luminaries have immensely helped me in the preparation process.
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: What about us poor mortals? Does B not feel sorry for the suffering of humanity?

B: Suffering is in the mind only. All efforts to ameliorate suffering on the physical plane will yield only ephemeral results. The permanent way to get rid of suffering is to get rid of the sufferer, who is one and identical with the suffering mind. Sufferer extinguished, no more suffering would be possible.

- Aham Sphurana, page 539
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: God must have had a good reason for having introduced all this suffering into the world.

B: Yes

Q: What is the reason?

B: So you become disgusted with samsara, turn within, Realise and thereby arrive at a permanent solution to the problem of suffering. Your inferences about the sorry plight of the world are only objective knowledge. Such knowledge may be circumstantially correct, but it does not lead anywhere but to more and more painful births or incarnations. So, to give up all knowledge is Jnana. Only that is wisdom. In a world where change is the only thing permanent, where Randomness and Entropy rule as Kings-in-duumvirate, what is done is eventually undone, what is built is razed to the ground, and what is ravenously cherished is reduced into decayed mulch.

- Aham Sphurana, page 539
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: When I try to suppress thoughts that is when they occur all the more forcibly or ferociously.

B: Who asked you to forcibly restrain thought? Gently coax the mind back into its source whenever you become aware that it has strayed. That is enough.


-Aham Sphurana, page 107
 

Iyest

Active member
The master read out from Kaivalya Navaneetham.

Vasana Prakshyo Moekshaha - The complete eradication or destruction of vasana or the memory pattern of desires is called Emancipation.

Due to the gigantic size and immense viscosity of the heap of vasanas accumulated in the memory of the jiva, the negative potency of mental impressions accumulated over countless hundreds of thousands of past incarnations, forcibly pull the aspirant outwardly towards the enjoyments of sensuous and sensual objects. So, it becomes natural to the mind to run outwardly, to fall into the fathomless ditch of sensuous and sensual enjoyments.

With the mighty power of vivegam and vairagya, The extroverted mind is halted, introverted, subjugated and made to stay relentlessly, persistently, ever on the Self, the Witness. This is true sadhana.

-Aham Sphurana, page 133
 
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