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Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Shri KRS and Renuka

I do understand the importance of the teachings but let me be clear about that. There is not enough balance in what is taught. But I am not blaming you for that. You are doing your work. But let us all understand that people should be receptive to them and find them applicable. When we say such high words as there are no others can we expect the common man to understand them and live by them. My real test of effectiveness of teaching is the understanding of it and living of it by the common man. Ivory tower teaching is not going to take us far. And more importantly do we ourselves have the real conviction in what we teach and live by them.

I am just placing some points to ponder. Let our work for the upliftment of mind of others not be just a futile or an academic exercise.
I do fully agree with you Sravna.
I have noticed in many spiritual groups when higher ideals are discussed honestly most of us might need a detailed explanation.

So I do agree with what you wrote.
Initially when I read the answer that there are No Others..I myself thought " how practical is this?"

It didnt give me answers right away though after some contemplation I linked verses from most religious texts to form an understanding.

So I do agree with you.
At the same time we do have to ask ourselves, how many of us treat others as vasudhaiva kutumbakam as in there are no others and how many of us get treated in the same manner as others?
Honestly I guess we might write well here but practiclly we might not practicing what we preach at the same time whatever we write should have an explanation.

Those who surrender to a Guru might have a guru shishya connection which allows inner engineering to take place.

But for the rest of us , we might need some guidance as you have suggested.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Passionate devotion towards the Higher Ideal must be cultivated in children at a young age, well before their sense of a personal self is able to assert itself; for the deadliest danger is when the person finds a means of financial independence; he imagines he is “a self sufficient entity.” One can make the observation that this pride of being able to support oneself materially or financially is a great hindrance to Realisation in the case of many people. Realisation needs you to surrender yourself totally and unconditionally. That will happen only if the feeling, “I am helpless by myself; I cannot do anything; the only way out for me is to throw myself at the mercy of the Guru [or Randomness or Self or God or Higher Power whether called by one of these names or any other] and keep quiet” has completely enveloped the mind. If you think, “I can support myself by earning a living for myself in this world” it leads in the exact opposite direction to Realisation - i.e., away from.

-Aham Sphurana, page 534
Golden words..but when kids become teenagers everything changes too..not all will fully echo childhood instilled values.
 

Iyest

Active member
Golden words..but when kids become teenagers everything changes too..not all will fully echo childhood instilled

They may change as teenagers. But how many parents want Realisation for their children to begin with. Are they even serious about it themselves? For most, ‘practical’ means cultivation of skills to pursue sensory pleasures in life. IMHO.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
They may change as teenagers. But how many parents want Realisation for their children to begin with. Are they even serious about it themselves? For most, ‘practical’ means cultivation of skills to pursue sensory pleasures in life. IMHO.
Some parents do really want children to head towards realization but not children seek that.

I guess individual karma too counts.

On my part I tell my son to seek the middle path because eventually its balance that leads us to the straight path.

He seems to understand it but in more of a Buddhist way without a personal God but for me I pursue the middle path with the concept of God.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I believe the distractions for the mind and body are too much and so primarily one needs to cope up with them. But for that our philosophy itself may be a distraction and there definitely should be strong elements of pragmatism in the coping up process. I suggest we take the essence of our philosophy but display pragmatism in apt ways. Otherwise we will definitely be taken for a ride and end up worse than before.

I emphasize that I do strongly suggest that at the inner level we need to be caring for others. I would say that would be nirguna brahman or Lord Krishna's approach to display pragmatism to act in accordance with higher dharma.
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Shri KRS and Renuka

I do understand the importance of the teachings but let me be clear about that. There is not enough balance in what is taught. But I am not blaming you for that. You are doing your work. But let us all understand that people should be receptive to them and find them applicable. When we say such high words as there are no others can we expect the common man to understand them and live by them. My real test of effectiveness of teaching is the understanding of it and living of it by the common man. Ivory tower teaching is not going to take us far. And more importantly do we ourselves have the real conviction in what we teach and live by them.

I am just placing some points to ponder. Let our work for the upliftment of mind of others not be just a futile or an academic exercise.
Dear Sri Sravana Ji Sir,

Yes, a common man like me can understand these ‘high philosophy’ words or (at least think I do) because I have taught myself the fundamentals of our religion, over the major part of my life now. Like anything in life, one starts with the fundamentals; one can not do a Ph.D. in mathematics, without learning the numbers. And then too only a few pursue higher level mathematics.

In my opinion, Spirituality is similar. And in our tradition, a Guru will manifest to the Sishya, when the Sishya is ready to learn. Our scriptures talk about the qualifications of a person who is ready to learn.

So, what I am saying is that if your mind is prepared to receive such a teaching, you will understand. Otherwise you won’t. I am not saying that one condition is better than the other. One finds utility in the teaching, while some other may not. This is why our religion encourages all different types of Spiritual practices. What Ramana Maharishi said may not be understood by many. It is okay. The aim is not to train the world, but address those who are attracted to his words.

Spirituality, especially Advaitha Sambradhayam is not all logic. It‘s goal is transcendental. One has to do practice with the belief of attaining Moksha.

By the way, there is no meritocracy in Spirituality. It is all for the uplift of the ‘common man’. One does not need to be educated, or in the common sense need to be intelligent to understand one’s Guru’s teachings. If one does have questions, one is encouraged to ask and get answers to those questions.

Again, my postings and other similar postings about other Masters here are not for teaching any fundamentals of Spirituality to anyone. They are for the already initiated/followers of specific Gurus.
 
Last edited:

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sri Sravana Ji Sir,

Yes, a common man like me can understand these ‘high philosophy’ words or (at least think I do) because I have taught myself the fundamentals of our religion, over the major part of my life now. Like anything in life, one starts with the fundamentals; one can not do a Ph.D. in mathematics, without learning the numbers. And then too only a few pursue higher level mathematics.

In my opinion, Spirituality is similar. And in our tradition, a Guru will manifest to the Sishya, when the Sishya is ready to learn. Our scriptures talk about the qualifications of a person who is ready to learn.

So, what I am saying is that if your mind is prepared to receive such a teaching, you will understand. Otherwise you won’t. I am not saying that one condition is better than the other. One finds utility in the teaching, while some other may not. This is why our religion encourages all different types of Spiritual practices. What Ramana Maharishi said may not be understood by many. It is okay. The aim is not to train the world, but address those who are attracted to his words.

Spirituality, especially Advaitha Sambradhayam is not all logic. It‘s goal is transcendental. One has to do practice with the belief of attaining Moksha.

By the way, there is no meritocracy in Spirituality. It is all for the uplift of the ‘common man’. One does not need to be educated, or in the common sense need to be intelligent to understand one’s Guru’s teachings. If one does have questions, one is encouraged to ask and get answers to those questions.

Again, my postings and other similar postings about other Masters here are not for teaching any fundamentals of Spirituality to anyone. They are for the already initiated/followers of specific Gurus.
All right Sir. Makes sense.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I do fully agree with you Sravna.
I have noticed in many spiritual groups when higher ideals are discussed honestly most of us might need a detailed explanation.

So I do agree with what you wrote.
Initially when I read the answer that there are No Others..I myself thought " how practical is this?"

It didnt give me answers right away though after some contemplation I linked verses from most religious texts to form an understanding.

So I do agree with you.
At the same time we do have to ask ourselves, how many of us treat others as vasudhaiva kutumbakam as in there are no others and how many of us get treated in the same manner as others?
Honestly I guess we might write well here but practiclly we might not practicing what we preach at the same time whatever we write should have an explanation.

Those who surrender to a Guru might have a guru shishya connection which allows inner engineering to take place.

But for the rest of us , we might need some guidance as you have suggested.

I believe philosophies such as Advaita though perfectly truthful in my opinion are very difficult to grasp. It is not the fault of the philosophy or the faults of those who teach. It is just that mind needs to be at the right state to grasp them. In that sense I think there is meritocracy in spirituality though I am not using merit in its negative connotation. Everyone ultimately learns the truths though meritocracy is more an illusion but nevertheless exists

Advaita and the teachings of those such as Ramana maharishi and Krishnamurthy requires an advanced state of mind. My point is almost none of us are in that league. So you may ask ' is there any utility in their teachings? Yes apart from a handful few who really are able to benefit from them at the inner level there is a real practical utility because all truths have practical use. If one understands them well enough it can be turned in to Science and even technology by applying them. That's where I find the greatest use of the teachings of our great masters at this point of time.
 

sravna

Well-known member
One more relevant point I would like to make. Common man can vibe better when although the philosophy is high it is said in a way that strikes chord with him.

Just now I was listening to tamil song from the movie Ejamanan. The song is wife singing Oru nalum unai maravatha inithana varam vendum. I was able to vibe with that substance million times more at the inner level than when I read philosophical texts.
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Well-known member
One more relevant point I would like to make. Common man can vibe better when although the philosophy is high it is said in a way that strikes chord with him.

Just now I was listening to tamil song from the movie Ejamanan. The song is wife singing Oru nalum unai maravatha inithana varam vendum. I was able to vibe with that substance million times more at the inner level than when I read philosophical texts.
Sir,

Absolutely. This is why we have 330 million Devathas, each representing the functions of our body and mind. Hence so many ways to purify one’s mind.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Sir,

Absolutely. This is why we have 330 million Devathas, each representing the functions of our body and mind. Hence so many ways to purify one’s mind.
Yes Sir. I do respect this space. I understand it is for like minded people. I enjoyed and learnt from the engagements with you
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
One more relevant point I would like to make. Common man can vibe better when although the philosophy is high it is said in a way that strikes chord with him.

Just now I was listening to tamil song from the movie Ejamanan. The song is wife singing Oru nalum unai maravatha inithana varam vendum. I was able to vibe with that substance million times more at the inner level than when I read philosophical texts.
Honestly Sravna...thats how true spirituality functions.
We receive messages without the need of philosophy.

Ramana Maharishi did say.." When philosophy stops, spirituality begins"


Happy to note this Sravna..its a sign of spirituality.
 

Iyest

Active member
Some parents do really want children to head towards realization but not children seek that.

I guess individual karma too counts.

On my part I tell my son to seek the middle path because eventually its balance that leads us to the straight path.

He seems to understand it but in more of a Buddhist way without a personal God but for me I pursue the middle path with the concept of God.

Renuka ji, this is how people who are a bit seriously interested approach it. We are not in total pursuit of worldly pleasures. We try to strike a balance or compromise between spirituality and worldly life. Because it is not easy to give up all ideas and attachments at once. That is where we are but it is a long and arduous road ahead.

A relevant passage follows.
 

Iyest

Active member
The actual process of Atmavichara requires painstaking, continuous, intense effort sustained pertinaciously over decades. People want a cheaper substitute but there is none - yet some people claim to have found an effortless way to Realisation and are successfully vending it to others in return for money and other forms of gratification, which is nothing but clever practice of pure deceit.

- Aham Sphurana, page 125
 

sravna

Well-known member
Honestly Sravna...thats how true spirituality functions.
We receive messages without the need of philosophy.

Ramana Maharishi did say.." When philosophy stops, spirituality begins"


Happy to note this Sravna..its a sign of spirituality.
Dear Sir,

Thank you. Very true words. Spirituality can function with direct intuitions without the need for introspection. The route of introspecting and arriving at truths is another way to knowledge. There are people in between.

Knowledge progresses in the physical world by sharing ideas and concurring.

We need to put together as Renuka says all the nuggets and look for the underlying truths.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sir,

Thank you. Very true words. Spirituality can function with direct intuitions without the need for introspection. The route of introspecting and arriving at truths is another way to knowledge. There are people in between.

Knowledge progresses in the physical world by sharing ideas and concurring.

We need to put together as Renuka says all the nuggets and look for the underlying truths.
Made a botch up. The last message should be to Renuka. Sorry Renuka!
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Renuka ji, this is how people who are a bit seriously interested approach it. We are not in total pursuit of worldly pleasures. We try to strike a balance or compromise between spirituality and worldly life. Because it is not easy to give up all ideas and attachments at once. That is where we are but it is a long and arduous road ahead.

A relevant passage follows.
I am not into worldly pleasures as in desires.
In fact I am giving away lots of my things and my only plan I have is to exit the world having nothing in my name anymore.

Money is starting to feel like a burden.
In fact I have undone all my fixed deposits as I do not want interest growing in the bank.

There is freedom in not letting material grow.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I am not into worldly pleasures as in desires.
In fact I am giving away lots of my things and my only plan I have is to exit the world having nothing in my name anymore.

Money is starting to feel like a burden.
In fact I have undone all my fixed deposits as I do not want interest growing in the bank.

There is freedom in not letting material grow.
Profound words and wisdom. Money indeed as with material things can control you. People do not realise they are not the ones in control. Not focussing on money and things material after your needs are reasonably met is the best way to achieve and sustain peace and happiness.
 
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