• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

OP
OP
K

KRS

Active member
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU
DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING?

During the first week of last month, on one morning, an ignorant traveller came to the Ashram and, after staying here for two or three days, and in accordance with the saying “satra bhojanam matha nidra”
(eating in choultries, sleeping in mutts)
went away to eat and stay elsewhere, but was all the same coming here for some days enjoying the bliss of staying near
and having the darshan of Bhagavan.

Before leaving this town he approached Bhagavan one day with great hesitation and
said, in humble tones,
“Swami, the people sitting here always
ask you something and you give them some replies. When I see that, I also feel tempted to enquire, but I do not know what to ask you. How then can I get mukti?”

Bhagavan, looking at him endearingly and smiling, said,
“How do you know that you do not know anything?”

He said, “After I came here and heard the questions asked by all these people and the replies Bhagavan is pleased to give them, the feeling that I do not know anything has come upon me.”

“Then it is all right. You have found out that you do not know anything; that itself is enough.
What more is required?” said Bhagavan.

“How to attain mukti by that much alone, Swami?”
said the questioner.

“Why not? There is some one to know
that he does not know anything. It is sufficient if you could enquire and find out who that someone is. Ego will develop if
one thinks that one knows everything. Instead of that, isn’t it much better to be conscious of the fact that you do not know
anything and then enquire how you could gain moksha?”

He felt happy at that and went his way. That questioner might or might not have understood the essence of that
Bhagawathvani (the voice of the Lord) but, for us people here,
those words were echoing in our heart of hearts like mantraksharas
(letters of the gospel).

✅ Letters from Sri Ramanasramam. (17)
 

sravna

Well-known member
Just to add...I dont view money as evil.
Its neutral.
It depends on the user.

In fact the Arabic word for currency Deenaar has an interesting etymology.

Its made up of two words.
Deen( religion) and Naar( fire)

If Deenar(currency) is used right it leads to Deen( religion) but if it used wrongly it leads to Naar( hell fire).

So as you said, money is not evil.
Dear Renuka,

The safest approach after you have enough for a decent living is to not think of money with even a good purpose in mind. If it is a side benefit and when you give that away is only when it is ok. Money as one of your objectives after a certain point is never good.

This talk of money being Goddess Lakshmi is only for those who are in search of excuse to justify making money. If Goddess Lakshmi wills she will come to you automatically seeing your pure heart.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

The safest approach after you have enough for a decent living is to not think of money with even a good purpose in mind. If it is a side benefit and when you give that away is only when it is ok. Money as one of your objectives after a certain point is never good.

This talk of money being Goddess Lakshmi is only for those who are in search of excuse to justify making money. If Goddess Lakshmi wills she will come to you automatically seeing your pure heart.
I have no idea why I have never been drawn to the concept of Lakshmi.

I do understand Lakshmi isnt just about money but I never felt connected to Lakshmi.

Its just that I always felt whatever meant for me will reach me and whatever not meant for me will not reach me.

So just our duty and the rest will fall in place.

The Bhagavad Gita appeals to me because Shree Krishna was just focussing on facts to connect to God and none else.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,
When it comes to money, our duty is the following:

1) Earn it rightfully.
2) Pay taxes
3)Use it for self and family
4)Regular donation
5)Make a will to will it to child or children.
6)Donate some amount for a good cause.
7) Legally nothing will be on our name once the will is executed.

So exit owning nothing.

Most important do not neglect family.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

If you understand and follow Bhagavad Gita no other philosophies are required. Most of them are mostly ivory tower scope only and most likely will confuse you.

Gita combines idealism and pragmatism in a perfect way and to my mind its teachings are complete and timeless.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

If you understand and follow Bhagavad Gita no other philosophies are required. Most of them are mostly ivory tower scope only and most likely will confuse you.

Gita combines idealism and pragmatism in a perfect way and to my mind its teachings are complete and timeless.
Agreed.
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Active member
Devotee: As far as I can see it is impossible to realize the Self until one has succeeded in preventing the rushing thoughts. Am I right?

Bhagavan: Not exactly. You need not prevent other thoughts...The wisest thing for one to do is catch hold of the leading 'I-thought' giving no chance for the other thoughts to distract one. There lies the true value of vichara and its efficacy in mind control.

Taken from Guru Ramana by SS Cohen.

1639925280749.png
 

Iyest

Active member
1. Find the source whence thought emerges.
2. Stay there once and for all - permanently.

Really the two steps enunciated above will suffice to bring about Jnanasiddhi - however, the quest has to be relentless if it is to succeed. It is not something that is done a few minutes or hours per day. All of your latent power of mental concentration or focus should be channelised in its entirety towards making the mind stay at its source, ensuring that it does not jump out to chase after objects of sensory gratification or sense-pleasure, and this is to be done all the time, and with the sum totality of the mind, during the states of both jagrat and swapna. Further, the attitude fueling the effort must not be, “I must acquire Self-Realisation” or “I must merge in Brahman” or “ I must escape from this dream and discover my true Self” or any other attitude. When any inclination of the will or volition or attitude or motive or intention or desire drives the sadhana, it is doomed to failure, because will is part of the mind, and the mind cannot get rid of the mind or even find the mind.

- Aham Sphurana, page 183
 

Iyest

Active member
Jivas are born on the earth, but without investigating, “Who am I, who believes that he was born?”, they take themselves to be the body and do all sorts of things to safeguard life in the body and perpetuate its existence: education, career, employment, investment in annuities or other financial contracts, and what not. They even create children, thinking “I am unique in this earth. I am going to die one day; at least I must leave behind my biological footprint in this earth. Thus the continuity of my lineage is assured.”; finally they just die and everything done here is wasted and destroyed in a flash.

- Aham Sphurana, page 342.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Jivas are born on the earth, but without investigating, “Who am I, who believes that he was born?”, they take themselves to be the body and do all sorts of things to safeguard life in the body and perpetuate its existence: education, career, employment, investment in annuities or other financial contracts, and what not. They even create children, thinking “I am unique in this earth. I am going to die one day; at least I must leave behind my biological footprint in this earth. Thus the continuity of my lineage is assured.”; finally they just die and everything done here is wasted and destroyed in a flash.

- Aham Sphurana, page 342.
I was just having a thought today on the same topic...that is we human being always feel they have to leave a legacy of genetics or culture or religion or varna etc.

But we are not just this one present life...what about all the lives we have been through..why do we only identify with this life?
Its because this is what we know and we do not know the past lives?

So finally what can we truly leave behind that is truly our identity?

The answer is nothing!

But there was something that carried all this baggage for us yet remained unaffacted?
So what is that?

Well, that is what we call the Atma which originated from God.

We have been given to ability to realize this which is the greatest gift of all.

Then I remembered a verse from the Quran 17:70 " We have honored the children of Adam( human beings) and carried them on land and sea and provided for them good sustenance for them and favored them specially above many of those We created"
 

Iyest

Active member
But we are not just this one present life...what about all the lives we have been through..why do we only identify with this life?
Its because this is what we know and we do not know the past lives?

So finally what can we truly leave behind that is truly our identity?

The answer is nothing!

Science says there is fundamentally nothing unique about our body. As a doctor you must know that the blood of one human being can be given to another among millions with the same type. Organs like heart and kidney can be transplanted from one person to another. Eyes can be transplanted even after death of the donor. So science clearly indicates there is nothing unique about my body.

Krishnamurti points out that even psychologically(mind) there is no unique individual identity. The activity of thought produces anxiety, pain, pleasure, fear etc which is common and fundamental to all human beings.

The idea that I am some unique individual identity is a myth at both the physical and psychological levels.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Science says there is fundamentally nothing unique about our body. As a doctor you must know that the blood of one human being can be given to another among millions with the same type. Organs like heart and kidney can be transplanted from one person to another. Eyes can be transplanted even after death of the donor. So science clearly indicates there is nothing unique about my body.

Krishnamurti points out that even psychologically(mind) there is no unique individual identity. The activity of thought produces anxiety, pain, pleasure, fear etc which is common and fundamental to all human beings.

The idea that I am some unique individual identity is a myth at both the physical and psychological levels.
Exactly!
At some point of our lives this understanding would bloom in us and then we truly understand why we say

Asato Ma Sad Gamaya.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I believe thinking one is exceptional is wrong. But here is a subtlety. People are programmed to think they are different or unique in their early stages of evolution. That is natural. That idea gradually gives way to the idea of similarity and eventually to oneness. It all depends on how evolved you are to take the right advice.
 

Iyest

Active member
B: Realisation is a personal voyage into the Impersonal. J.K. said, “Truth is a pathless land.”

Q: But unlike J.K., B is not interested in touring around the world, giving speeches and lectures, and spreading his message. He keeps quiet. Why?

B: The message is the same: “Observe Inwards.” There it is delivered through the medium of the intellect. Here it is heart to heart. Whomever finds whichever compatible attends the respective presence.

Q: Is Inner Observation the same as “Who am I?”

B: Yes

Q: How so?

B: The difference is in the nomenclature employed only. Continuously observing the mind, one finds there is no such thing, that no such thing could ever exist. The fruit of such observation is that the observer, the observed, and the faculty of observation all collapse and disappear once and for all. Then only the Self - in all its pristine purity - is left as the residue. The mind is only a mistaken notion. If you look closely at it, it cannot remain.


- Aham Sphurana, page 962
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Active member
I believe thinking one is exceptional is wrong. But here is a subtlety. People are programmed to think they are different or unique in their early stages of evolution. That is natural. That idea gradually gives way to the idea of similarity and eventually to oneness. It all depends on how evolved you are to take the right advice.
Sir,

May I ask, how do you know this to be True. Is it from your experience?

Thanks.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Sir,

May I ask, how do you know this to be True. Is it from your experience?

Thanks.
Dear Sir,

I do not fully rely on experiences for realizing truths. I to a large extent rely on my intuitions which have served me very well. In a way you can call them as past life experiences.
 

sravna

Well-known member
The more I read philosophy the more convinced I become about the futility of it as a source of enlightenment. Enlightenment requires spiritual understanding and not intellectual understanding. Spiritual understanding happens only with experience and introspection. Mind alone cannot do it. It has to be mind and senses and perhaps bodily experiences.

There has to be a context for spiritual understanding which is utterly personal. The great philosophical work Gita rightly stands out as it was taught in a context. It was focussed on the pragmatics than being philosophy without context.

I am not sure even if people who preach this ivory tower content themselves can make useful sense out of them.

Anyway good luck for all those academically inclined people in pursuit of self realisation.
 
Last edited:

sravna

Well-known member
Just like blind theories are not desirable similarly blind technology with no coherent theory is also not desirable. So also blind faith.
 

sravna

Well-known member
The present day focus of science overwhelmingly on data for solutions is technology that is blind. Not desirable.
 

renuka

Well-known member
The more I read philosophy the more convinced I become about the futility of it as a source of enlightenment. Enlightenment requires spiritual understanding and not intellectual understanding. Spiritual understanding happens only with experience and introspection. Mind alone cannot do it. It has to be mind and senses and perhaps bodily experiences.

There has to be a context for spiritual understanding which is utterly personal. The great philosophical work Gita rightly stands out as it was taught in a context. It was focussed on the pragmatics than being philosophy without context.

I am not sure even if people who preach this ivory tower content themselves can make useful sense out of them.

Anyway good luck for all those academically inclined people in pursuit of self realisation.
Sravna, academic inclination does not really help self realization but it does not hinder self realization either as long as one is able to lay down the intellect as in surrender to God as to receive flashes of jnaana.

But honestly many a times I have noted many who go higher on philosophy are actually familiar with the subject as in having a sound memory but not really able to delve deeper beyond that.

Dhūl-Nūn Abū l-Fayḍ Thawbān b. Ibrāhīm al-Miṣrī from Egypt said,

" The gnostics pretend to knowledge, but I avow ignorance, that is my knowledge"

We have to understand what he means by ignorance here.
He means emptying the intellect as in to receive divine knowledge.

I am glad you are finding " philosophy" not to your liking as much.
Its a good sign..when the mind prefers simplicity be ready to actually tap into the Truth.
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Active member
Dear Sir,

I do not fully rely on experiences for realizing truths. I to a large extent rely on my intuitions which have served me very well. In a way you can call them as past life experiences.
Sri Sravana Sir,

Thank you for responding to my query.
 

Iyest

Active member
The fact is that in order to escape its own destruction the mind creates a world of name and form over the pure vasthu that is the Atman. It abhors chaos and randomness and prefers order and systematisation. It creates cause-consequence relationships and gives itself to understand ideas about its environment, which is actually merely its own projection. It tries to study the nature of its body’s physical surroundings and formulate laws by means of which it then expects those surroundings to function; deviations from existing laws give rise to the birth of new laws! Never once does it wonder, ‘What is my self?’; thinking to conquer its surroundings, it foolishly occupies itself with sensory-perceptions, thoughts, and intellectual hypotheses. Thus it is born again and again and needlessly undergoes all sorts of tribulations. Then it asks, “Alas! Why has God thrown me into the boundaryless ocean of samsara?”. Who is to blame for our mistake, if not ourselves?

- Aham Sphurana, page 410
 

renuka

Well-known member
The fact is that in order to escape its own destruction the mind creates a world of name and form over the pure vasthu that is the Atman. It abhors chaos and randomness and prefers order and systematisation. It creates cause-consequence relationships and gives itself to understand ideas about its environment, which is actually merely its own projection. It tries to study the nature of its body’s physical surroundings and formulate laws by means of which it then expects those surroundings to function; deviations from existing laws give rise to the birth of new laws! Never once does it wonder, ‘What is my self?’; thinking to conquer its surroundings, it foolishly occupies itself with sensory-perceptions, thoughts, and intellectual hypotheses. Thus it is born again and again and needlessly undergoes all sorts of tribulations. Then it asks, “Alas! Why has God thrown me into the boundaryless ocean of samsara?”. Who is to blame for our mistake, if not ourselves?

- Aham Sphurana, page 410
Honestly in the state of total surrender one becomes a receptacle and one functions in the Golden Mean of being in the
Now & Here but this state is total chaos and randomness yet it never tilts the scales of balance.

Its next to impossible to ever figure out how a state of chaos and randomness would be the state which is most conducive for existence.


We seldom realize this because of the free will we have where we try to pilot our plane heading in the direction we mapped out yet never finding any destination.

But if we allow God to " hijack" our plane and let Him fly it for us, we are on the plane totally blindfolded..lost our free will yet arrive at the destination purely driven by the Divine Will.

So at the end of the day all forms of disciplines,rules, regulation, order etc have to be dropped in order to be hijacked by God hence the saying goes..

"sarvadharmaan parityja maam ekam sharanam vrja
aham tvaam sarva papebhyo
mokshayishyaami ma suchah"

"Give up all varities of dharma and surrender unto Me alone.
I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear"
Bhagavad Gita 18:66
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: Since Ajata Advaita denies the existence of even God, to whom to surrender?

B: Surrender requires an object to surrender to only for those who are in the kindergarten stage of spiritual development. The wise simply surrender. To surrender is to give up everything [in other words, to renounce all knowledge of objects, even the mental faculty of objectification]. How then could possibly arise the question of finding out one more object to surrender to?

- Aham Sphurana, page 431
 

renuka

Well-known member
Q: Since Ajata Advaita denies the existence of even God, to whom to surrender?

B: Surrender requires an object to surrender to only for those who are in the kindergarten stage of spiritual development. The wise simply surrender. To surrender is to give up everything [in other words, to renounce all knowledge of objects, even the mental faculty of objectification]. How then could possibly arise the question of finding out one more object to surrender to?

- Aham Sphurana, page 431
Lovely but at the same time the last chapter of the Gita says
"Give up all varities of dharma and surrender unto Me alone.
I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear"
Bhagavad Gita 18:66

Is the state of surrender Shree Krishna is stating a " kindergarten" state or is it the Essence of surrender?
 
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoy an ad-free experience along with numerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks