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Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

OP
OP
K

KRS

Active member
Sri usaiyer sir,

There are many Satsangs in the US, from the east coast to the west coast and many places in between. You can Google them, if interested.

I used the word ‘Vasanas’ only to describe one’s latent tendencies that can clearly be observed. My knowledge about it’s connection to past lives is only theoretical, albeit from venerable sources like the Vedas, Gurus etc.

My Vasanas are such that, I have to convince myself about a theory, if I can, before fully understanding it as valid. This is why I have learnt Vedic Astrology from a very young age and pursued the practice of it. Along the way, I am convinced that it works, because of my experiences with it.

So, Karma theory etc. remain only just that, theories that are unproven to my mind. I value them as teachings from my forefathers. Other than that they have no value as far as I am concerned. More important to me is to practice what Bhagawan has prescribed, because it is within the purview of testing. And I am convinced that so far it is working. If there is a future life, I only pray to the Almighty to make me continue this practice.

Regarding your question about the mind and the self, this is what Bhagawan said:

1632605208117.jpeg
 

Iyest

Active member
'WHO IS PRACTICING? TRUE SADHANA IS NON-DOING



Q.: I still want to practice the remain-as-subjective-consciousness method as it seems to be a lot easier and less abstract for me in comparison with Atma-vichara.

B.: Alright. But it is necessary to abandon the idea that there is an "I" that is practicing this maintenance of subjective awareness as a sadhana in order to Realize. Then alone will a positive result follow.

The idea that you are witnessing Subjective Consciousness is an impediment to effortless abidance or inherence in that state in which Subjective Consciousness remains merely as Itself. As and when you discover such notions lurking within the mind, ask yourself, 'Who is the one that imagines that he is witnessing Subjective Consciousness?'.

Not the tiniest vritti or idea must lie latent in this Subjective Consciousness which remains merely as Itself without spilling over into the Realm of thought; only then will it blossom into permanent Sphurana. Thus, give up the idea that you are a sadhaka trying to Realize. Then the Beyond will take care of you and all will be well. It is only by giving up useless accretions that Realization is made possible, not by acquiring new vrittis or ideas or by practicing meditation, yoga, etc.. Let go of everything and only the Self will remain.

Q.: Is meditation not useful?

B.: What do you meditate on?

Q.: On the Aham-vritti, so that on close scrutiny, I shall discover the truth that it is non-existent and so realize the Self.

B.: [smiling] And who is going to make that discovery?

Q.: We have come back to 'Who am I?'.

B.: Exactly. People are so used to associating with objects on the level of the mind that they are always looking to do something. Can more mental-doing reveal the Self? It can only make obscuration of the Self more and more dense. True sadhana is not doing [non-doing] anything with the mind. That is the import of the advice Summa Iru. Not all people can appreciate this kind of advice. They think sadhana means they should do something. If I explain to them the truth they will become upset and think, "Swami seems to think I am unfit for sadhana...". So when someone comes here and says he is going to practice this and that, I say "Very good!". We have no right to demoralize or discourage anyone.



- Aham Sphurana
 

renuka

Well-known member
'WHO IS PRACTICING? TRUE SADHANA IS NON-DOING



Q.: I still want to practice the remain-as-subjective-consciousness method as it seems to be a lot easier and less abstract for me in comparison with Atma-vichara.

B.: Alright. But it is necessary to abandon the idea that there is an "I" that is practicing this maintenance of subjective awareness as a sadhana in order to Realize. Then alone will a positive result follow.

The idea that you are witnessing Subjective Consciousness is an impediment to effortless abidance or inherence in that state in which Subjective Consciousness remains merely as Itself. As and when you discover such notions lurking within the mind, ask yourself, 'Who is the one that imagines that he is witnessing Subjective Consciousness?'.

Not the tiniest vritti or idea must lie latent in this Subjective Consciousness which remains merely as Itself without spilling over into the Realm of thought; only then will it blossom into permanent Sphurana. Thus, give up the idea that you are a sadhaka trying to Realize. Then the Beyond will take care of you and all will be well. It is only by giving up useless accretions that Realization is made possible, not by acquiring new vrittis or ideas or by practicing meditation, yoga, etc.. Let go of everything and only the Self will remain.

Q.: Is meditation not useful?

B.: What do you meditate on?

Q.: On the Aham-vritti, so that on close scrutiny, I shall discover the truth that it is non-existent and so realize the Self.

B.: [smiling] And who is going to make that discovery?

Q.: We have come back to 'Who am I?'.

B.: Exactly. People are so used to associating with objects on the level of the mind that they are always looking to do something. Can more mental-doing reveal the Self? It can only make obscuration of the Self more and more dense. True sadhana is not doing [non-doing] anything with the mind. That is the import of the advice Summa Iru. Not all people can appreciate this kind of advice. They think sadhana means they should do something. If I explain to them the truth they will become upset and think, "Swami seems to think I am unfit for sadhana...". So when someone comes here and says he is going to practice this and that, I say "Very good!". We have no right to demoralize or discourage anyone.



- Aham Sphurana
Summary:
Be and it is! ( Kun fayakun)
 
OP
OP
K

KRS

Active member
1633739856101.jpeg

The jnani weeps with the weeping, laughs with the laughing, plays with the playful, sings with those who sing, keeping time to the song. What does he lose? His presence is like a pure, transparent mirror. It reflects the image exactly as it is. But the jnani, who is only a mirror, is unaffected by actions.

(Be As You Are )
 

Iyest

Active member
All scriptures without exception proclaim that for attaining salvation, the mind should be subdued. And once one knows that control of the mind is their final aim, it is futile to make an interminable study of them. What is required for such control is actual enquiry into oneself by self-interrogation-"Who am I? How can this enquiry in quest of the Self be made by means of a studying of the scriptures?"
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
To control the mind, first outside source of noise (sound, light and sensation) have to be eliminated or minimized. I was wondering how can we do it. Closing the eyes can shut the light entering our brain through the eyes, what about sound and heat/cold sensing.?

Mindfulness of controlling the body and the breathing is the first step. Then meditation comes only concentrating on the breathing. A very difficult task. Thus, following Swami Chinmayanadha ( only this aspect), shout in a high pitch Om or any monosyllable such as one, me, he etc., and every time you shout again reduce the voice and finally only in mind. It will take about 15 days before you can feel silence for a few seconds. After about 48 days (one Mandalam) you can be still without hearing anything. Deep breathing and mindfulness slowly will relax the body and the temperature etc., will not affect you.

I did not believe in this, yet finally when I tried and succeeded now, I do every day before I sleep and the first thing in the morning. That does not mean I have “self realization”. Rather a few minutes of feeling nothing but peace.

If you look at your daily routine, you act as a different person with different other person based on the situation. Then- you are a father, brother, husband, son, grand father, officer, worker, citizen… endless roles and which one of the role is you actual role? Every thing you go through is for a short duration, thus while your physical body is the same(unless neurological changes also take place), which role is “aham- me”? So, Maya is the pretension of “ I am” as so and so, is momentary. Rest is assumed. Since semantics changes from context to context of “I am” that is Maya, but you are the same Atma – Bagavat Geetha 1-6: samāne vṛkṣe puruṣo nimagno

'nīśayā śocati muhyamānaḥ juṣṭaṁ yadā paśyaty anyam īśam asya mahimānam iti vīta-śokaḥ
Within self, Atma goes through the experience like a bird eating the fruits of the tree but paramatma which both the tree and as a witness just looks at the Atma. When a self sees as part of the same Paramatma one experiences selflessness. A very difficult task.
लक्शणम् मनसः ञानस्य अभावः भाव एव वा। सति ही आत्मा इन्दिर्य अर्थानाम् सन्निकर्षण एव वर्तते ।। Mind is defined as: the entity which, even on contact with the self. Sense organs and sense objects is responsible for production or otherwise of knowledge by it’s attending or non-attending respectively. Subtleness and oneness are known as two qualities of the mind.
How the Rshis gave the semantic interpretation at their time , due to only via hearing and reciting might have gone through changes when the written system evolved. Thus, what we have today may or many not be the original texts and original meaning. This leads different Gurus to say the same thing differently though they may mean the same.
That may one reason that all the saints do not say the same thing though they might have meant the same thing. Thus we have many Gurus but no homogeneous shishyas on the level field. Only self experience can make one feel and understand the “self”. Those who wants to read Vedas in English here is a site:
https://learnveda.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Rigved-Agniveer-vol1.pdf
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: B’s idea of happiness?
B: Happiness is Itself alone. Ideas about it are unhappiness.

Q: B’s idea of misery?
B: The thought manufacturing faculty, which styles itself ‘I’.

Q: The greatest Love of B’s life?
B: Arunachala the Formless One.

Q: The incumbent state of B’s mind?
B: The state of no mind.


- Aham Sphurana, page 523
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Those were based on his experience, but he did not show step-by-step to reach the same conclusion. In otherwards, what is said is for those who had the intuition and realization by themseleves like a scientist but can not be understood by a common man. All or temples, retituals etc., were created for a common man to go through the first step and they stop there. All Mahans with self realization did not sit and create a step-by-step procudure or algorithm for a very few dedicated individual to go throgh the path. Oh, Yoga , meditation... are there for one to follow are just dogma. Even his thoughts he expressed had been manufactured by his faculty without saying "I". But he has realized the happiness but his followers are reciting his dogma without becoming another Bagwan. Now, this is not condeming the discussion, but self realization comes through only a very few rare people.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Here is another example that even a so called Guru could not control his emotion:

Mahant Narendra Giri, the deceased president of Akhil Bhartiya Akhara Parishad, was under such 'grave mental trauma' from his estranged disciple Anand Giri, priest Adhya Prasad Tiwari and his son Sandeep Tiwari that he ended his life to 'avoid defamation and insult' in the eyes of society, the Central Bureau of Investigation has said in its charge sheet.
So, Ramana, Shankara, Ramanuja, Buddha etc., were one in trillion human beings. What an ordinary guy or girl(man or woman) is a systamatic way way to reach the same spiritual position like Ramana. It is not easy by just saying, renounce, search within yourself etc. It needs two things - the right patram- karta and the right intuitive knowledge. Not an easy thing and leanred by reading books etc.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Those were based on his experience, but he did not show step-by-step to reach the same conclusion. In otherwards, what is said is for those who had the intuition and realization by themseleves like a scientist but can not be understood by a common man. All or temples, retituals etc., were created for a common man to go through the first step and they stop there. All Mahans with self realization did not sit and create a step-by-step procudure or algorithm for a very few dedicated individual to go throgh the path. Oh, Yoga , meditation... are there for one to follow are just dogma. Even his thoughts he expressed had been manufactured by his faculty without saying "I". But he has realized the happiness but his followers are reciting his dogma without becoming another Bagwan. Now, this is not condeming the discussion, but self realization comes through only a very few rare people.
Why do you feel he did NOT show step by step to reach the same conclusion and all these can not be understood by common man?

There is something called surrender and UPANISHAD.
Upanishad means sitting near.
So you either sit near to God in your heart and pray to Him or you sit near a Guru and listen with your heart and not with your mind.

All those who sat "near" Ramana Maharishi would have been "tuned" by his frequency and some amount of inner engineering would have taken place in accordance to their karmic capability.

There is a verse in the Quran that states:

"He sends water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The esoteric meaning of this is whatever knowledge sent down to a person is in accordance with his capacity to perceive it.

So we do know each person differs.
Two people sitting in front of the same Guru might subtly imbibe different measures of clarity and knowledge.

But the prerequisite is surrender ..without that nothing works.
Those who prefer a Guru surrender to a Guru.
Those who prefer God surrender to God.
Both lead to inner engineering.

One might ask "since Ramana Maharishi is no more around so one cant physically sit near him..well one can visit his ashram because the frequency of realized souls still pervade a place even though they have left the place physically and one may ask..what about those who cant visit the ashram?..well, one can read the books with the concept of surrender to Ramana Maharishi and patiently wait for the water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The greatest stumbling block in surrender is the over analytical mind.
In fact the common man might actually grasp jnaana faster than a scientific mind which just wont shut down its intellectualization.
Jnana yoga is neither analysis nor is it blind faith.
It is about being a receptacle to allow information from God or Guru to download into our heart.

To be in the receptacle state isnt easy...takes time and perserverance , hence we find in the Gita "śhraddhāvān labhate jñānaṁ"

One needs to be ready to see all our pre conceived notions break down like a town invaded by a King which demolishes and destroys all the town's high ranking people and establishes a new reign.

A verse in the Quran states "Indeed kings - when they enter a city, they ruin it and render the honored of its people humbled. And thus do they do"

The esoteric meaning is that when Divine knowledge invades our system, it breaks down all pre conceived mind based knowledge and humbles our pride and ego and by this a new reign of divine knowledge rules us.


Therefore do NOT feel that Ramana Maharishi did not spell out everything for all those who surrendered to him.
Rain drops of his knowledge would have fallen on those who surrendered to him in ways we might not understand yet.
 
Last edited:

Iyest

Active member
Why do you feel he did NOT show step by step to reach the same conclusion and all these can not be understood by common man?

There is something called surrender

The greatest stumbling block in surrender is the over analytical mind.
In fact the common man might actually grasp jnaana faster than a scientific mind which just wont shut

Indeed.

The mind refuses to surrender. That is the only issue. That is why it invents theories like ‘ I am only a beginner’, ‘Realisation is far away in the distant future’, ‘ I must do this practice and that practice and progress slowly’ and so on and on. It is a cunning way to continue its existence. It will never heed genuine masters who point to Realisation here and now. Instead it will run after the dime a dozen street corner gurus who will keep it happily engaged in doing something or the other for a lifetime.
 

Iyest

Active member
Q: If I stay at the root of the mind or abide as pure Subjective Consciousness, will I Realise the Self?

B: The question shows that the arbitrary mental conceptualisation, ‘Realising the Self’, is still present in the mind. Staying in the root of the mind should be a matter of course; it must be the natural state. On the other hand, you are trying to deliberately do it so that you can thereby gain the reward you call ‘ Self Realisation’. Can it work? No. Stillness cannot be reached with the mind. Water cannot be made dry water. Subside the mind and Stillness alone is left over. People want to know how this may be done. It cannot be done because doing is the anti-thesis of it. J.K. has said - “ Total negation is the essence of the positive.” Do not do anything with the mind. That is Realisation. Doing cannot bring about non-doing; absence of doing is known as non-doing. Non-doing is not an exotic variety of doing; it is simply not doing. Abstinence from or relinquishment of thought is not a positive act. It should therefore not require to be attended to with effort or volition. If there is any effort or volition involved you are still stuck in the realm of doing. The transition from the realm of doing to that of non-doing should be a natural collapse. It is pointless if forced.

- Aham Sphurana, August 10, 1936
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Agreed, then why are not we seeing hundreds and thousands of people following him and report here that we follow his shown path and are happy. Here is what we do to reach that point?
We can also say, Lord Kirshana is punishing us for our sins and thus we argue but do not share the step by step approach a given person has taken to reach that devine state. Arguments are OK for ego satisfaction, but not for inner awakening. Dive kowledge invades only those who studied our system - elite?
 

Iyest

Active member
Agreed, then why are not we seeing hundreds and thousands of people following him and report here that we follow his shown path and are happy. Here is what we do to reach that point?

The mind can only survive by being extroverted. Without delving inwards into the fundamental question ‘Who am I?’ it is futile to talk about other people and their happiness, sorrow, the steps they followed or anything else.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Nice. But have you attained that stage? How did you ahcieve that? May be you can share your insights and methods so that ohers can benefit. Making general statement or quoting other's preaching does not help. But if that is only what is left, then so it be.
 

Iyest

Active member
Nice. But have you attained that stage? How did you ahcieve that? May be you can share your insights and methods so that ohers can benefit. Making general statement or quoting other's preaching does not help. But if that is only what is left, then so it be.

So long as one is extroverted one is stuck with ‘others’ and concerned only about the failures and attainments of others. The mind will do everything possible to avoid turning inwards. So be it.
 

Mani_Chennai

Active member
Arguments do not help. Can you list all you have done :step-by-step, your failoures and your success and how you have reached the ultimate. What we need is not an opinion, but a description of how that is achieved so that others can at least try that path. No one can read the mind of Ramana, thus can not argue that he spelled out every thing. Rain drops fall on desert too without joing the rivers and the sea. Thus, the idea of "some how one will surrender, one will get devine knowledge. etc., are just wishful thinking unless one can document how he or she did it. What is needed for a common man is a well laid path to reach the devine. If the pot is borken devine will not invade, otherwise by now the whole world would be peacefla an immersed in devine knowledge and devoid of normal thinking.
What is missing in these arguments is "the writer" does not openly and clearly tell what steps he or she took and how did he or she attined the goal. That is the lesson people expect and not speculations and arguements. But it is right of every one to argue as usual and the news dies down. But that may be also be the part of missing devine knowledge not reaching every one or make them aware somehow(?) that it was given to them already.
What Kuran says, Geetha says, Shankara says etc., are also hearsay from publications and not a real narraive of personal attainment of the eternal bliss. That is what being searched in these forums.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Agreed, then why are not we seeing hundreds and thousands of people following him and report here that we follow his shown path and are happy. Here is what we do to reach that point?
We can also say, Lord Kirshana is punishing us for our sins and thus we argue but do not share the step by step approach a given person has taken to reach that devine state. Arguments are OK for ego satisfaction, but not for inner awakening. Dive kowledge invades only those who studied our system - elite?
Why are you counting?
There is no rule that hundreds or thousands should follow him.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Arguments do not help. Can you list all you have done :step-by-step, your failoures and your success and how you have reached the ultimate. What we need is not an opinion, but a description of how that is achieved so that others can at least try that path. No one can read the mind of Ramana, thus can not argue that he spelled out every thing. Rain drops fall on desert too without joing the rivers and the sea. Thus, the idea of "some how one will surrender, one will get devine knowledge. etc., are just wishful thinking unless one can document how he or she did it. What is needed for a common man is a well laid path to reach the devine. If the pot is borken devine will not invade, otherwise by now the whole world would be peacefla an immersed in devine knowledge and devoid of normal thinking.
What is missing in these arguments is "the writer" does not openly and clearly tell what steps he or she took and how did he or she attined the goal. That is the lesson people expect and not speculations and arguements. But it is right of every one to argue as usual and the news dies down. But that may be also be the part of missing devine knowledge not reaching every one or make them aware somehow(?) that it was given to them already.
What Kuran says, Geetha says, Shankara says etc., are also hearsay from publications and not a real narraive of personal attainment of the eternal bliss. That is what being searched in these forums.
Do not underestimate the common man..why are you setting rules on what the common man should do or should not do?

Btw, why dont you start a new thread in General Discussion, I kind of feel bad to disturb the sanctity of this thread.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Why do you feel he did NOT show step by step to reach the same conclusion and all these can not be understood by common man?

There is something called surrender and UPANISHAD.
Upanishad means sitting near.
So you either sit near to God in your heart and pray to Him or you sit near a Guru and listen with your heart and not with your mind.

All those who sat "near" Ramana Maharishi would have been "tuned" by his frequency and some amount of inner engineering would have taken place in accordance to their karmic capability.



There is a verse in the Quran that states:

"He sends water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The esoteric meaning of this is whatever knowledge sent down to a person is in accordance with his capacity to perceive it.

So we do know each person differs.
Two people sitting in front of the same Guru might subtly imbibe different measures of clarity and knowledge.

But the prerequisite is surrender ..without that nothing works.
Those who prefer a Guru surrender to a Guru.
Those who prefer God surrender to God.
Both lead to inner engineering.

One might ask "since Ramana Maharishi is no more around so one cant physically sit near him..well one can visit his ashram because the frequency of realized souls still pervade a place even though they have left the place physically and one may ask..what about those who cant visit the ashram?..well, one can read the books with the concept of surrender to Ramana Maharishi and patiently wait for the water from the sky that fills riverbeds to overflowing, each according to its measure"

The greatest stumbling block in surrender is the over analytical mind.
In fact the common man might actually grasp jnaana faster than a scientific mind which just wont shut down its intellectualization.
Jnana yoga is neither analysis nor is it blind faith.
It is about being a receptacle to allow information from God or Guru to download into our heart.

To be in the receptacle state isnt easy...takes time and perserverance , hence we find in the Gita "śhraddhāvān labhate jñānaṁ"

One needs to be ready to see all our pre conceived notions break down like a town invaded by a King which demolishes and destroys all the town's high ranking people and establishes a new reign.

A verse in the Quran states "Indeed kings - when they enter a city, they ruin it and render the honored of its people humbled. And thus do they do"

The esoteric meaning is that when Divine knowledge invades our system, it breaks down all pre conceived mind based knowledge and humbles our pride and ego and by this a new reign of divine knowledge rules us.


Therefore do NOT feel that Ramana Maharishi did not spell out everything for all those who surrendered to him.
Rain drops of his knowledge would have fallen on those who surrendered to him in ways we might not understand yet.
Brilliant!
 

sravna

Well-known member
Renuka good and valid points. There is a sea of difference between following a step by step approach and surrendering oneself. The route of algorithmic approach towards knowledge is different and at some point things have to seen in a bigger perspective as that alone can produce the spark to consume higher truths.

Step by step approach has limitations. There is a lot that needs to be implicitly understood between two steps.
 
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