Women and morality

[happyhindu]

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Amala, Valli, Renu,

Do ya ladies know if any specific term was used for Draupadi who had 5 husbands at the same time....in Tamil or any other language.

Amala, nice post. Will try to look up if tehre is a sanskrit word for "co-husband" (nice term - you coined it yourself?) (sounds lol)

Cheers!!!

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Polygamy is a wedding which includes more than two partners. When
a man is married to more than wife at a time the relationship is known
as Polyandry (custom of having more than one husband at a time).
Second husband is known as Foster Husband. A girl born to a person
calls her genetic father as Father, Dad is used for second husband. This
terminology is prevalent is western countries.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[kunjuppu]

Results for: polyandryTranslations 1 - 2 of 2
English Tamil
polyandry பல கணவருடைமை
polyandry பலமணம் புரிதல்
, •பல பதிகளை (கணவர்களை)யுடைமை

probably because this situation may not have been practised in tamil culture?

interestingly two recent tamil movies mittai and sindhu samaveli, deal withis this subject.

mittai-poster-controversy/

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear renuka !
In India the working women achieve their target mostly on sympathy factors citing their family condition,calling some male folks as their brothers, in some utilizing the weakness of gents (jollu party ) etc.
even in some case they will blackmail their boss saying woman safety rules in working places.In office they get transfer to the place where her husband is employed ,but the husband not get the same facility.wher it come equality. women are better placed. that is why male employee used to utter the word,
ARE only working women having family &not working male ?

 

[renuka]

dear renuka !
In India the working women achieve their target mostly on sympathy factors citing their family condition,calling some male folks as their brothers, in some utilizing the weakness of gents (jollu party ) etc.
even in some case they will blackmail their boss saying woman safety rules in working places.In office they get transfer to the place where her husband is employed ,but the husband not get the same facility.wher it come equality. women are better placed. that is why male employee used to utter the word,
ARE only working women having family &not working male ?

I 100% agree..same thing happens here.One must be very very careful with the female employee sometimes cos some of them will be very friendly with male co workers and if things dont go their way they will scream sexual harassment.

I also dislike this brother brother stuff some woman do.I feel its insulting to a man cos its like telling a guy indirectly "stay off".
Why cant anyone respect each other and be friends? Friendship is a unique relationship that is hard to explain.I can safely say some of my best friends are guys.I never called them brother even once.

I remember when I was unmarried every holiday I had to be on call at the government hospital and the married females docs got to be off on holiday.
I used to tell my consultant that this practise is very very unfair cos even a male or an unmarried person has the right to enjoy a holiday either alone or with his/her mum and dad.

Thats why now when I am an employer I see all my employees the same whether married or not and leave is given based on the need and not marital status.

 

[happyhindu]

Results for: polyandryTranslations 1 - 2 of 2
English Tamil
polyandry பல கணவருடைமை
polyandry பலமணம் புரிதல்
, •பல பதிகளை (கணவர்களை)யுடைமை

probably because this situation may not have been practised in tamil culture?

interestingly two recent tamil movies mittai and sindhu samaveli, deal withis this subject.

mittai-poster-controversy/

Many thanks K sir. I too think polyandry was not practiced by the Tamilians. (Personally, i think the idea is quite unnatural, a woman must be emotionally wrought to be in a situation of polyandry. There are situations where the men were killed off and the women were used for mating. That is, it was not by choice but force of circumstances).

Is there a word for 'polyandry' or for the concept of 'co-husband' in Malayalam?

Regards.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

In some dictionaries, it is amplified as the condition or practice of
having more than one husband at one time. In some it is two or more..

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[guruvayurappan]

I 100% agree..same thing happens here.One must be very very careful with the female employee sometimes cos some of them will be very friendly with male co workers and if things dont go their way they will scream sexual harassment.

I also dislike this brother brother stuff some woman do.I feel its insulting to a man cos its like telling a guy indirectly "stay off".
Why cant anyone respect each other and be friends? Friendship is a unique relationship that is hard to explain.I can safely say some of my best friends are guys.I never called them brother even once.

I remember when I was unmarried every holiday I had to be on call at the government hospital and the married females docs got to be off on holiday.
I used to tell my consultant that this practise is very very unfair cos even a male or an unmarried person has the right to enjoy a holiday either alone or with his/her mum and dad.

Thats why now when I am an employer I see all my employees the same whether married or not and leave is given based on the need and not marital status.

dear renuka !
i pray more and employer like you go treat his/her employee as employee without any discrimination of male ,female ,married/not married etc . every body have their own priority .the employee also should behave or reciprocate the same way and the organization will be a pleasant place.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Generally men and women work together without any problem without
sexualising their relationship. There are rare occasions, when problems
arise, if they start spending some extra time together during lunch
hours, business travel, etc. Besides, women gossip about shopping etc
amongst themselves. Men, those onlookers, sitting side by side, start
telling something, if one is a subordinate staff and that way some relationship
starts. At times many good employees get their career ruined owing to
their misbehaviour in the office premises. Some bosses, in order to manage
female employees, they set concurrent deadlines to speed up the work and
make them active to the task with no room for any other problems. In the
overall, now a days, lot of precautions are taken and nothing untoward
happens.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[prasad1]

A social practice by a group of people may seem strange to people outside that group. We tend to judge others by our own standards.

In the west we get trained to be socially correct. In some other countries people are not trained so they do not even know how the words can be hurtful.

Polyandry in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Polyandry was practiced by some south Indian tribes, prevalent among the Todas of Nilgiris, Nairs of Travancore and Ezhavas of Malabar. While polyandrous unions have disappeared from the traditions of many of the groups and tribes, it is still practiced by some Paharis especially in Jaunsar Bawar region in Northern India.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Women have a pious role of a devoted mother and a wife besides an ardent
caretaker of a family of her own. If women loses her self-understanding, she
becomes susceptible to emotional sentiments. Only, if we trace the history,
we can find women have a dual role of a house wife and a wage earner to build
the economic strength of a family. Women are more susceptible to social
pressures than males and are rather prone to psychological problems at times
if there is a stress on them owing to the environmental conditions.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear biswa !
most men say mother good than wife because mother does not suspect him while wife is not so .like wise you may be having more brothers than sisters or no sisters . hence this comment Am i correct ? or you may be moving with only male and not with female . you give reply honestly if you feel to reveal.
cheers ,
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

Women have a pious role of a devoted mother and a wife besides an ardent
caretaker of a family of her own. If women loses her self-understanding, she
becomes susceptible to emotional sentiments. Only, if we trace the history,
we can find women have a dual role of a house wife and a wage earner to build
the economic strength of a family. Women are more susceptible to social
pressures than males and are rather prone to psychological problems at times
if there is a stress on them owing to the environmental conditions.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

dear bala !
yes .A woman have a role of devoted mother with pious and take a role of mother-in-law with bias and vociferous.she will be more affectionate to his son-in-law than her own sons .
guruvayurappan

 

[renuka]

dear bala !
yes .A woman have a role of devoted mother with pious and take a role of mother-in-law with bias and vociferous.she will be more affectionate to his son-in-law than her own sons .
guruvayurappan

Its just human psychology, some woman when they never had as good time as a daughter in law they do not treat their own DIL well when its their turn to be a MIL.
and this type of pattern goes on as a vicious cycle and a never ending story.

Seen this pattern of thinking even while I was an intern..I remember we intern doctors used to get "tortured" by the senior ones and life used to be hell.
but the same interns when they became seniors start bullying the juniors and the cycle continues.

Only very few of us used to teach and guide the junior ones how to handle the work and how to prevent being bullied by other senior docs and sometimes even help out the junior by covering for them.
Many senior doctors used to tell me and others who were kind to juniors "why are you helping them out...let them get it like how we got it from the consultants".
We use to say..."this has to stop somewhere..revenge is not the name of the game and stressful working conditions wont bring out the best in a doctor"

So if women think and feel that since "we went tru a hard time as a DIL we will make sure our DIL wont suffer" and make a change,the world will be a better place.

Actually its not too hard to be a good MIL.
Most important is to mind our own business and let son and his wife lead they life best suited to them.
But how many women can mind their own business?
Thats why I always tell my husband that when my son gets married..I would like him to stay on his own and be happy with his wife..I wont want to interfere in anything.
Thats why I bring up my son to be independent and not be a mummy's boy cos
most mummy's boys dont make good husbands.
My duty is to bring up my son to be a good person and eventually a good husband for his wife.
I dont have to bring him up to be a good son cos he is already my son biologically and thats good enough for me.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Wife versus Mother - advantages talked about. Wife and Mother are two different
identity. Much water has flowed down on this issue. Wife is not only a Companion
and also an Associate until the last breath of a Man. She also turns as a Mother
and her responsibility is voluminous. She not only looks after her children independently
if not supported, takes care of their education in the absence of Father, nourishes
timely and properly according to their tastes and likes, and above all makes the
Husband to be happy to the extent possible, knowing his whims and fancies.
May be, as some say, she may get at times irritated if the husband does which is
not likable, but she has a generous attitude, if it explained to her, to forget and
forgive once for all and not the other way. Mother, as such at the first instance
itself does not forgive her child inwardly, though she may not spell it out in the
presence of his wife or others. Both are somebody's wife. Therefore, one has to
remember that every mother is also a wife.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[guruvayurappan]

Its just human psychology, some woman when they never had as good time as a daughter in law they do not treat their own DIL well when its their turn to be a MIL.
and this type of pattern goes on as a vicious cycle and a never ending story.

Seen this pattern of thinking even while I was an intern..I remember we intern doctors used to get "tortured" by the senior ones and life used to be hell.
but the same interns when they became seniors start bullying the juniors and the cycle continues.

Only very few of us used to teach and guide the junior ones how to handle the work and how to prevent being bullied by other senior docs and sometimes even help out the junior by covering for them.
Many senior doctors used to tell me and others who were kind to juniors "why are you helping them out...let them get it like how we got it from the consultants".
We use to say..."this has to stop somewhere..revenge is not the name of the game and stressful working conditions wont bring out the best in a doctor"

So if women think and feel that since "we went tru a hard time as a DIL we will make sure our DIL wont suffer" and make a change,the world will be a better place.

Actually its not too hard to be a good MIL.
Most important is to mind our own business and let son and his wife lead they life best suited to them.
But how many women can mind their own business?
Thats why I always tell my husband that when my son gets married..I would like him to stay on his own and be happy with his wife..I wont want to interfere in anything.
Thats why I bring up my son to be independent and not be a mummy's boy cos
most mummy's boys dont make good husbands.
My duty is to bring up my son to be a good person and eventually a good husband for his wife.
I dont have to bring him up to be a good son cos he is already my son biologically and thats good enough for me.

dear renuka !
you words represent today's young parents. mamiyarum oru vettu marumagalle ! (sas be a bahu thi )
the lines Thats why I bring up my son to be independent and not be a mummy's boy cos
most mummy's boys dont make good husbands.
My duty is to bring up my son to be a good person and eventually a good husband for his wife.
I dont have to bring him up to be a good son cos he is already my son biologically and thats good enough for me.should be kept in mind by all of us
but our act of sometimes even help out the junior by covering for them. is not reciprocated and the juniors are utilising for making mis understanding bet the seniors
guruvayurappan

 

[renuka]

dear renuka !
you words represent today's young parents. mamiyarum oru vettu marumagalle ! (sas be a bahu thi )
the lines Thats why I bring up my son to be independent and not be a mummy's boy cos
most mummy's boys dont make good husbands.
My duty is to bring up my son to be a good person and eventually a good husband for his wife.
I dont have to bring him up to be a good son cos he is already my son biologically and thats good enough for me.should be kept in mind by all of us
but our act of sometimes even help out the junior by covering for them. is not reciprocated and the juniors are utilising for making mis understanding bet the seniors
guruvayurappan

Dear Guru,

I guess I didnt explain too well the line about covering for juniors.
I didnt mean covering their gross mistakes.
Out here in Malaysia sometimes during internship we dont even get to eat when its busy..most of us have gone without meals for almost 1/2 day and sometimes we tell the juniors "go eat I will cover the duty for you till you finish eating"

I meant covering for sometime till they finish eating.
Situation can get bad if you have a ogre for a consultant.

Once I was on call and didnt have the chance to have my dinner cos its was so busy..the next day I had to come to work again(we stay in hospital during call) and in the morning I was feeling faint cos I was too hungry so I went to have a meal in the morning and came to the morning clinic some 5 mins late cos I had to attend cases in the ward too due to being in call.

The consultant at the clinic asked me why I was late and I told him worked finished late cos I was on call an needed extra 5 mins cos I was feeling dizzy becos I was too hungry and didnt get a chance to have dinner the night before.

He was furious with me and said so what? Can you survive without 2 meals?
He was saying he had gone for endoscopy for gastritis many times cos he also missed meals before and said there was no excuse to come even 5 mins late and he said if you faint at work only then you will be allowed to eat when you are revived.

I really hated him..thats how we actually work as interns.You know its not easy to see patients when you are actually feeling faint cos you are also prone to making mistakes.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Mother-in-Law and Daughter-in-Law Syndrome is something since time immemorial.
It is very difficult in tracing back, which is beyond the reach of human memory nor
written records in this connection. Mother-in-Laws were once Daughter-in-Laws
and thus the wheel of cycle rotates. The relationship between them is something
unique. There is only one solution i.e. instead of feeling that her Daughter-in-Law
has come to her (MIL's place) to snatch away her domain, MIL should accept her
graciously as part and parcel of the family and accept and absorb her to be yet
another daughter without any bias; who has, in fact, left everything behind
(20 to 25 years of fearless life) to care exclusively and Love for the Man (who
has accepted her as life associate or companion) who is the true object of her
affection too. If this concept is accepted by the MILs voluntarily, there won't
be any problem in a family.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[biswa]

And to Mr Biswa kindly don't keep repeating Padmalakshmi and Elizabeth Hurley. They don't practise polyandry. They are what you call "serial monogamists"!

No Ms. Amala, I beg to differ. Elizabeth Hurley was having an affair with Shane Warne while being married to Arun Nayyar. Who knows her child with Stanley Bing might have been during an overlapping period as well.

Similarly the Top Chef Padmalakshmi had a baby with Adam Dell while "going out" with Ted Forstmann. Hopefully that period did not overlap with Salman Rushdie as well. There was so much doubt whose baby it was that she had to do a paternity test.

So for all practical purposes, these people were almost husband and wife except for being recognized by society. That is probably as close we can get to polyandry at this point.

 

[biswa]

Actually its not too hard to be a good MIL.
Most important is to mind our own business and let son and his wife lead they life best suited to them.

Famous last words! Sorry I couldn't resist.

But your next few sentences do clarify how it can be done, if it can be done at all.

But how many women can mind their own business?
Thats why I always tell my husband that when my son gets married..I would like him to stay on his own and be happy with his wife..I wont want to interfere in anything.
Thats why I bring up my son to be independent and not be a mummy's boy cos
most mummy's boys dont make good husbands.
My duty is to bring up my son to be a good person and eventually a good husband for his wife.
I dont have to bring him up to be a good son cos he is already my son biologically and thats good enough for me.

 

[biswa]

Now to turn the discussion towards a really controversial direction.

What about marital infidelities and extra-marital affairs? I know that it takes two to tango, but doesn't the man always take the first step?

Isn't the male libido taking precedence over female loyalty in these cases? Or is the "other" woman to be blamed as much as the "straying" man? Or is it the "suffering" wife who may have some "issues" nobody likes to talk about?

Which way should the moral compass point?

 

[amala]

Since time immemorial i think the "other women" have always been blamed more than the straying married man himself. I don't think anything has changed. Society always will even in the forseeable future blame the other woman. Why go so far, the wife will blame her even more than her own straying husband and probably the man himself will blame the other woman for seducing him (as if he is soo innocent).

The thing is if the other woman is single than i feel the man and wife should be blamed. They are the ones that made their marital vows to each other. Not the other woman. And for men who are serial cheaters, if its not woman A it will be woman B or woman C. These other women are the symptom not the cause. If you want to deal with this properly, nip the cause in the bud.

For emotional, falling in love infidelity, i honestly feel all 3 are innocent parties and shouldn't be judged harshly, ideally.

 

[renuka]

Now to turn the discussion towards a really controversial direction.

What about marital infidelities and extra-marital affairs? I know that it takes two to tango, but doesn't the man always take the first step?

Isn't the male libido taking precedence over female loyalty in these cases? Or is the "other" woman to be blamed as much as the "straying" man? Or is it the "suffering" wife who may have some "issues" nobody likes to talk about?

Which way should the moral compass point?

Dear Biswa,

Married people do fall in love too after marriage to people who are not their spouses.
Sometimes a married man falls in love with another married woman too.
It just happens a "Jab we met" syndrome as I call it.
Have you seen Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna? Somewhat like that.

So its very very hard to judge here.

I am sure at sometime in our life post marriage many a times we come across a person who we instantly connect and talk for a while and say bye and walk away but a feeling does come in us that it feels as if I knew him/her before sorts.
Thats the feeling I am talking about when people instantly connect and one thing leads to another and people do fall in love eventually..like in that movie KANK.

It does put the person in a turmoil cos most of the time the person still loves his/her spouse but really cannot get over the feeling of love for the new person too.
Sexual attraction is not always on the picture and lust might not even be there.
It could just be an emotional connection that holds these two people together.
No one is after anyones money here and all these two people want is to love each other.

I personally believe it is possible to love two people at the same time but with a slight preference may be.When I say preference I mean we love a person differently from another.
Try not to drag in sex and lust for a while and focus on true love.

If a mother can love every child why cant anyone of us love more than one person?Ever thought about that?
I was reading an article sometime back that said that a mother loves all children the same but differently and that sometimes is misunderstood that she prefers one over the other.

So I hope its clear what I am trying to convey.

 

[biswa]

Dear Biswa,

Married people do fall in love too after marriage to people who are not their spouses.
Sometimes a married man falls in love with another married woman too.
It just happens a "Jab we met" syndrome as I call it.
Have you seen Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna? Somewhat like that.

So its very very hard to judge here.

I am sure at sometime in our life post marriage many a times we come across a person who we instantly connect and talk for a while and say bye and walk away but a feeling does come in us that it feels as if I knew him/her before sorts.
Thats the feeling I am talking about when people instantly connect and one thing leads to another and people do fall in love eventually..like in that movie KANK.

It does put the person in a turmoil cos most of the time the person still loves his/her spouse but really cannot get over the feeling of love for the new person too.
Sexual attraction is not always on the picture and lust might not even be there.
It could just be an emotional connection that holds these two people together.
No one is after anyones money here and all these two people want is to love each other.

I personally believe it is possible to love two people at the same time but with a slight preference may be.When I say preference I mean we love a person differently from another.
Try not to drag in sex and lust for a while and focus on true love.

If a mother can love every child why cant anyone of us love more than one person?Ever thought about that?
I was reading an article sometime back that said that a mother loves all children the same but differently and that sometimes is misunderstood that she prefers one over the other.

So I hope its clear what I am trying to convey.

Renuka,

Thank you for a well-thought out post. The only thing I am skeptical about is the notion of love in the context you mention. Sure I can understand love for children, love for God, love for food etc.

However the way you define love between a man and woman seems very intellectual, abstract and refined. Do you think most people are capable of thinking in that developed way?

Not to pick on one person but did PadmaLakshmi really love Rushdie, Dell and Forstmann. Why don't we simply acknowledge that it was lust? Lust for money, fame, power or otherwise.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

Thank you for a well-thought out post. The only thing I am skeptical about is the notion of love in the context you mention. Sure I can understand love for children, love for God, love for food etc.

However the way you define love between a man and woman seems very intellectual, abstract and refined. Do you think most people are capable of thinking in that developed way?

Not to pick on one person but did PadmaLakshmi really love Rushdie, Dell and Forstmann. Why don't we simply acknowledge that it was lust? Lust for money, fame, power or otherwise.

I have no idea what was going on in Padma's mind..so how to comment?
You could be right and you could be wrong too.

BTW Love is Love..the essence is the same but may be the fragrance might differ.