Whither Indian Culture?

[Raji Ram]

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i....... Best is to somehow twist and contort our body to catch their eye and say "oru nimisham" or to start the talk. The current 35 to 40 group would be ok with "hello" and a smile before starting the conversation. Being casual is the way.

'Hi' has replaced 'Hello' long back, in Sing. Chennai!! :juggle:

 

[Raji Ram]

....... A friendly cough , clearing throat or simply glaring and catching the eye and talking can also be successful with women in same older age group. ...

I don't like coughing mAmAs! :lol:

 

[krish44]

I will tell my son.

He coughs when transacting with anyone from female gender.lol

I used to dread and wonder how to address ladies specially same age group.

Amma or Ma is offensive and most women think we are treating them as old ladies.

Hi makes the traditional women shudder.

If women put out hand, I muster enough courage to take it.

If it is putting hands together, lucky escape for both and promptly reciprocate.

Staring with no expression is not bad. It is the indian norm.

One can mumble 'hello' if there is recognition from the woman

 

[Vaagmi]

Talking of whither indian culture and Status of indian women, hear this from sahir ludhianvi

''Yeh ujale daricho mein payal ki chan chan

Thake haree sason me tabley ki dhan dhan

Yeh berooh kamre me khansi ki than than

Jine naaz hind par woh kahan hai

Kahan hai kaha hai kahan hai'

This is from Guru dutts film 'Pyaasa re released after restoration and running now.

Translation
In lighted buildings there is tingling of payal of women

In the sounds of Tabla,their tired breath is inter mixed.

Hear the sound of their coughs in rooms haunted by ghosts

Where are those who are proud about this vision of india

Where,where, where.

Krishji,

This is in the context of a place of dancing girls. I remember the film vividly. I saw that movie in Aurora theatre Mumbai with a friend. That was actually a smash hit even though screened for the umpteenth time in that city. Guru Dutt's memorable movie. And those were days when I was still a militant communist fresh from College. I have this movie in my collection.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

You addressed me once or twice but I am not sure whether it was 'R R Ji' or 'Raji'!

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish Sir,

You addressed me once or twice but I am not sure whether it was 'R R Ji' or 'Raji'!

I do not remember either.lol

We have to ask our spouses.....

They notice such things.

They are protective about their lifemates.

 

[Raji Ram]

''It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive, but those who can best manage change!'' - Charles Darwin

So, our sAstrigaLs are well versed in this! They know how to adapt to the changes and modify the rituals accordingly.

In the wedding in which the sAsthrigaL addressed the N B bride with a suffix 'mAmi' added to her name, there were many

modifications.

First day:
Only the groom's side performed 'vratham' followed by 'pAligai theLiththal'. Bride's side ladies were :couch2:!

The groom tied the 'kAppu' (yellow thread) on the left wrist of the bride!

Wedding day:

Bride's father wore a shirt and had a folded angavasthram over his shoulder. (I was happy! :lol: )

In oonjal function, many ladies from bride's side also participated! :grouphug:

Then, the bride's brother did the 'drishti kazhiththal' with a coconut and broke it near the entrance of the maNdapam!

Bride's Shiva gOthram was changed to groom's gOthram.

Bride was clad in Iyer style madisAr saree.

For the final Araththi, bride and groom's mAmis were invited.

What an idea, sAsthrigaL Ji!!

 

[Vaagmi]

Bride's Shiva gOthram was changed to groom's gOthram. ..........................
What an idea, sAsthrigaL Ji!!

A very bad idea.

How can a boy and girl from the same gothra marry? The girl should have been formally adopted by some relative of the boy and thus given the respective gothra (other than groom's gothra) and then the marriage should have been performed.

The Shastrigal did a bad job of it.:doh:

 

[krish44]

In other communities, if they are shaivites they say they belong to shiva gothram . Similarly vishnu gothram for worshippers of vishnu.

They do not trace their lineage from rishis like brahmins.

So sagothra does not carry any sense.

My relative a brahmin girl used to give her gothra to her NB husband for hindu religeous ceremonies home.

Her husband happily adopted her gothra to please his wife.lol

Another with shiva gothram and brahmin wife insisted and kept his shiva gothram and looked for a matrimonial alliance for his kid with another shiva gothram.

He preferred to be NB than brahmin.

It is only a matter of preferances and convenience.

 

[krish44]

Then this ritual of 'an elder ' Thaali eduthu kodukkaradhu' in NB communities.

I suppose this does not happen in brahmin marriages.

Am I right?

 

[zebra16]

''It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive, but those who can best manage change!'' - Charles Darwin

So, our sAstrigaLs are well versed in this! They know how to adapt to the changes and modify the rituals accordingly.

In the wedding in which the sAsthrigaL addressed the N B bride with a suffix 'mAmi' added to her name, there were many

modifications.

First day:
Only the groom's side performed 'vratham' followed by 'pAligai theLiththal'. Bride's side ladies were :couch2:!

The groom tied the 'kAppu' (yellow thread) on the left wrist of the bride!

Wedding day:

Bride's father wore a shirt and had a folded angavasthram over his shoulder. (I was happy! :lol: )

In oonjal function, many ladies from bride's side also participated! :grouphug:

Then, the bride's brother did the 'drishti kazhiththal' with a coconut and broke it near the entrance of the maNdapam!

Bride's Shiva gOthram was changed to groom's gOthram.

Bride was clad in Iyer style madisAr saree.

For the final Araththi, bride and groom's mAmis were invited.

What an idea, sAsthrigaL Ji!!

After 100-200 years, these will be treated as evolution and cultural changes of India.

Our future generations will google to find the reasons for tying the kAppu on the left wrist of the bride and for wearing a 'folded' angavastram over the shirt by the bridge's father.

The search will yield 2 billion plus hits giving opinions with "scientific reasons", "cultural reasons", "social reasons" "ecological reasons", "traditional reasons", "scriptural reasons" etc. etc.

People will gleefully copy paste tonnes and tonnes of pages for supporting their point of view.

Descendants of Sri Praveen (assuming one of them continues this site) will have to search for two whole days non-stop to locate a particular message that has been **reported** as objectionable, insulting, anti-brahmin etc.

And tell you what, your post will be #1 for noting, reporting and codifying Hindu/brahmin practices ......

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Last month I visited a friend in her office. It is an IT major in Bangalore in a sprawling campus.

Most of the women were wearing tight dress, and could you imagine what the most shocking thing that was revealed!!! None of them were wearing brassiere inside. Could you imagine what would be revealed of a woman in such a case. Most of them were in their mid-twenties. Many of them fresh graduates. And my friend, also a woman but modestly dressed, said it is the very common trend nowadays especially among women working in IT Companies.

Needless to mention, most of the women were wearing revealing cloths.

I have not seen this even in USA, certainly not in corporate environment. Howsoever they wear dresses outside, inside offices american women dress decently.

Why would a women wear a blouse fully revealing her back, unless her intention and purpose is to attract men's eyes, unless her intention is to appeal sex? Of course it was summer, agni nakshatram hot, but this city is one city that is spared the sweltering heat you experience in other metros like Madras, Hyderabad etc.

One more trend is catching up with young women in metros. The sleeveless is replaced with partly-open-sleeved blouses and t-shirts which are more seductive than sleeveless t-shirts and blouses. This also is a very common scene in metros especially inside campuses of IT companies.

Should our our Indian Culture nosedive, decay and degenerate to such nadir!!! And we wax eloquent about our great Indian culture and about our varied Indian heritage!!! LOL!!!

 

[krish44]

Gnanasunyamji

You are over sensitive.

Women in work place dress in clothes that are convenient for work.

Leggings of skin colour , long tight or loose pants , doing away with inners are common.

Most do not have time to elaborately dress.

Most dress to suit the hot humid climate.

If some have only time to stare and see skin of women, well there are umpteen places they can go for that.Men need to be less sensitive about womens dressing.

It is just a patriarchal mindset criticizing dress of co workers if they happen to be women.

Why compare with US or any other country?

Our women are far more modest in dressing.

They are also more sensible and avoid distracting male colleagues at work.

Once both males and females get familiar with each other at work, they look at them as friends and colleagues and not particularly bother how they are dressed.

Every generation feels that the next generation is going downhill as far as dressing is concerned.

A century back , women did not wear the upper garment in villages in india in many states. Did anyone say they were uncultured?

 

[renuka]

Dear Gyanasundram Ji...

You must be having breast and female body fetish.

Let females dress how they want.

They might want to attract some males but you might not be on their list..so dont worry.

Btw even in the west females wear bra to work.
Give me a break that you saw Indian females sans bra at work.

At times I am starting to wonder the exact intent of your posts..are you getting some kickku by discussing the female anatomy?

If so its better you find some other outlet for yourself.

 

[Raji Ram]

A very bad idea.

How can a boy and girl from the same gothra marry? The girl should have been formally adopted by some relative of the boy and thus given the respective gothra (other than groom's gothra) and then the marriage should have been performed.

The Shastrigal did a bad job of it.:doh:

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

There seems to be some confusion. There is a ritual which is usually 'known' as changing of gOthram, in Iyer weddings.

Actually, the three generations of both bride and groom are announced, along with gOthrams. But soon after this is over,

everyone will say, 'Now the girl's gOthram is changed!' (How can a girl change to groom's gOthram and marry him? )

Anyway, after the wedding, the bride takes the same gOthram of the groom!! :shocked:

 

[Raji Ram]

:thumb: Narayan Sir!

:gossip: I won't be alive to see all these.

 

[Raji Ram]

Ayyaiyoooo! G S Sir discusses about inners of females, with another female!! :faint:

 

[prasad1]

Every generation feels that the next generation is going downhill as far as dressing is concerned.

A century back , women did not wear the upper garment in villages in india in many states. Did anyone say they were uncultured?

Well said

 

[prasad1]

You must be having breast and female body fetish.

Let females dress how they want.

They might want to attract some males but you might not be on their list..so dont worry.

Btw even in the west females wear bra to work.
Give me a break that you saw Indian females sans bra at work.

At times I am starting to wonder the exact intent of your posts..are you getting some kickku by discussing the female anatomy?

If so its better you find some other outlet for yourself.

LOL.
Somebody had to do it, it is better coming from you than anyone else.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Gnanasunyamji

You are over sensitive.

Women in work place dress in clothes that are convenient for work.

Leggings of skin colour , long tight or loose pants , doing away with inners are common.

Most do not have time to elaborately dress.

Most dress to suit the hot humid climate.

If some have only time to stare and see skin of women, well there are umpteen places they can go for that.Men need to be less sensitive about womens dressing.

It is just a patriarchal mindset criticizing dress of co workers if they happen to be women.

Why compare with US or any other country?

Our women are far more modest in dressing.

They are also more sensible and avoid distracting male colleagues at work.

Once both males and females get familiar with each other at work, they look at them as friends and colleagues and not particularly bother how they are dressed.

Every generation feels that the next generation is going downhill as far as dressing is concerned.

A century back , women did not wear the upper garment in villages in india in many states. Did anyone say they were uncultured?

dear krish sir (or madam, Im not sure)

your arguments are logically acceptable, no doubt.

if you are a gent, would you permit your wife to dress likewise to her office?

'Time is less', agreed. 'Dress to suit the climate', can't agree more!

'If some have only time to stare and see skin of women,..'...Sir, don't you think there is a limit for minimizing the dress? you are right in asking, 'why would u stare at a women's exposed skin?'. but don't you think some ethics must be observed in dressing to office? your argument can be extended to any limits for that matter. what if a woman would say she is comfortable only in bikini in hot summer!!!

there is no point pouncing on me sir (or madam, whatever is right). please ponder sir.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Gyanasundram Ji...

You must be having breast and female body fetish.

Let females dress how they want.

They might want to attract some males but you might not be on their list..so dont worry.

Btw even in the west females wear bra to work.
Give me a break that you saw Indian females sans bra at work.

At times I am starting to wonder the exact intent of your posts..are you getting some kickku by discussing the female anatomy?

If so its better you find some other outlet for yourself.

Oh madam, you are too intelligent I can't argue with you.

Think pragmatically madam. would you dress that way in your clinic or hospital wherever you work?

 

[renuka]

Oh madam, you are too intelligent I can't argue with you.

Think pragmatically madam. would you dress that way in your clinic or hospital wherever you work?

We have dress codes here...so too bad your imagination cant run wild here!!LOL
Even to go to a government department here for official matters here sleeveless of any kind not allowed and legs cant be exposed.

Corperate sector allows formal clothing of any kind but all men wear their underwear and all women wear their respective undergarments.

I find it impossible to believe that women in India dont wear bra to work.

I am sure you wear all required undergarments to work.

I have been to India many times..its overall traditional esp in South.

I dont know whose mammary glands you saw and its protruding in your memory.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

We have dress codes here...so too bad your imagination cant run wild here!!LOL
Even to go to a government department here for official matters here sleeveless of any kind not allowed and legs cant be exposed.

Corperate sector allows formal clothing of any kind but all men wear their underwear and all women wear their respective undergarments.

I find it impossible to believe that women in India dont wear bra to work.

I am sure you wear all required undergarments to work.

I have been to India many times..its overall traditional esp in South.

I dont know whose mammary glands you saw and its protruding in your memory.

madam,

you seem to have been provoked beyond your capacity. you could have softened your tone and avoided personal attack on me. there is no point pouncing on me, spewing your ire on me.

if it is 1 or 2 individuals, it is not a matter of concern of course. it is that individual's will and wish, superciliousness or whatever you call it.

please note, what I have reported is only a tip of the iceberg.

there are members in this forum, working in IT cos. they have not contended.

 

[Falcon]

madam,

you seem to have been provoked beyond your capacity. you could have softened your tone and avoided personal attack on me. there is no point pouncing on me, spewing your ire on me.

.

Good Sir,

Keep it up.

Now another one will come and join the attack.

 

[Falcon]

would you dress that way in your clinic or hospital wherever you work?

G.S Sir,

I believe you certainly have a point.