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Whither Iyers?

natkaushik

Active member
TN Iyers have steadily been loosing their moorings over the past 50 years. Given up Vedic studies, Sanskrit and tamil knowledge, pariśecanam, Sandi, brahmayagñan, párvaṇam, tharpaṇam, mahalayam, visiting temples for pradosham, Karthigai,sankatahara chaturthi, fasting on Ekadasis, Shivaratri...No wonder Brahmins are not esteemed in TN.
 

natkaushik

Active member
Rediscovery of Iyer Roots.
Paramácárya once regretted that Smárthás don't celebrate Adi Sankara's birthday, do Guru Puja, read about his Digvijayam, read his bashyams on Prastánatrayam, recite or sing the slokas composed by him. They should learn Gurubhakti from the Sikhs.
 

natkaushik

Active member
It us high time for Iyers to come together for the common good of the community and the future generations, and reclaim their heritage, due to which they were held in high esteem by one and all. After all Iyers were top educationalists, industrialists, advocates, scientists, musicians, writers, doctors etc., at the same time not neglecting their traditions.
 

moorthy44

Member
naikaushik Ji,

First question is are you serious about what you write. ..?

It is nice you are a Brahmin. And it is unfortunate that you were blessed to live in Tamil Nadu where Brahmins are not esteemed as per your narration.

Now my question is esteem/respect or whatever definition you call it are WHAT WE EARN.

I am sharing an article here:

Please go through this and there are 359 comments also go through those comments.

We will discuss. I hope this section permits discussion on the topic.

'The angst of the Tamil brahmin: Live and let live'

A putative theory about brahmins suppressing nonbrahmins for the last 2,000 years and denying them education and other privileges has gained currency and is today taken for granted. No proof is required. No further research is required.
.......................................................
There is no rancour or resorting to honour killing when inte ..

Read more at:
 
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natkaushik

Active member
Moorthy Iyer ji,
I would rather read your opinion on future of Iyers, not all Brahmins, than articles and comments on repeated ad nauseam, on historical rights and wrongs.
Please elaborate on why you think I am not serious.
 

moorthy44

Member
Moorthy Iyer ji,

I would rather read your opinion on future of Iyers, not all Brahmins, than articles and comments on repeated ad nauseam, on historical rights and wrongs.
Please elaborate on why you think I am not serious.
Excuse sir,

My query was are you serious.... it does not mean that you are NOT serious. Got it....It is just a matter of confirmation.

Topic is a highly sensitive one. It is obviously past experience of most that you can find threads opened in this very same Forum by members and there won't be any response subsequently by the thread opener.

If you go through achieves, you may see threads with heated exchange of opinion and thoughts by only other members and the thread opener will be silent throughout.

It is something like just instigating or triggering other members on a sensitive subject and enjoy the war of words.

It is a warming up session. Like warming up before going for regular exercise, I always wish to recollect some of the happening/history which are base, root cause or foundation for the current situation.

So, I would insist members to recollect such events, practices and deeds of past. This is not for your sake but for the same of others readers)

We will discuss......


A relevant article is shared here for the interest of members
 
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moorthy44

Member
It us high time for Iyers to come together for the common good of the community and the future generations, and reclaim their heritage, due to which they were held in high esteem by one and all.

natkaushik Ji,

Btw, are a member of any Brahmins Association......?

There are too many recognized Brahmins Association functioning actively in Tamil Nadu and are contributing a lot for the well being of Brahmins.

So, my question is, are you member of any of the Association and could you please name that...? This is because people come here talk more about unity among Brahmins.... bringing all brahmins section under one umbrella, etc etc like torch bearers. They also prove firebrand speakers They preach more about the strength we derive by being a one recognized body.

Before proceeding further, I would like confirm whether you have any such spirit of coming together by joining in any of the Brahmins Asosciations (Recognized).

I am a member of Tamil Nadu Brahmins Association for a very long time and this is for your information.

Talking and writing is different and piratically acting towards a well set goal for unity is different.

Let us discuss more.....
 

natkaushik

Active member
Moorthy vál,
Just to repeat myself, I just want to concentrate on future of Iyers. You are eager to take the thread in a different direction. I suggest that you start a different thread for it. I find it incongruous to quote a person of another religion about brahmins in a brahmin Forum.
 

moorthy44

Member
Moorthy vál,
Just to repeat myself, I just want to concentrate on future of Iyers. You are eager to take the thread in a different direction. I suggest that you start a different thread for it. I find it incongruous to quote a person of another religion about brahmins in a brahmin Forum.
natkaushik Ji,

This thread which was started on Tuesday, there was no participation by any one for the past few days, viz, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and today morning I just made an entry with a hope to learn something. Mine was the first response. The absence of any one's participation during the last few days is quite obvious and speaks volume.

And you wanted to concentrate on future of iyers.lol

I don't know how is it that keep on writing solo in a Forum without anyone's participation will focus on the future of Iyers.

I would humbly request learned members of this Forum to assist him to find out the future of Iyers and for that you can actively participate and discuss. I love to learn more from others. And would like to keep away from the discussion.

natkaushik Ji, keep up your urge, fire, etc and concentrate more and help us to know the future of Iyers please.

I am very glad to find that someone is interested to know the future of Iyers in this Forum

Wishing you all the best. :)

And thanks for the response.

PS: I would like to bring to your KIND attention that it is a public Forum
And the Moderator is the only authority to restrict participation of members.

Will be more glad if this thread becomes lively with more participation adding value and more exchange of opinion, thoughts and ideas.
 
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natkaushik

Active member
Moorthyvál.
I became a member of TAMBRAS, when it was started by respected Sethuraman, and Auditor Venkataraman. I stopped when it became the pocket borough of the present incumbent. Maybe he is the best for Brahmins.
However I visualise an association of Iyers on the lines of 'Free Masons', Brahmo Samaj or Wizards (Harry Potter!!) helping individual (not samashti) Iyer families in education, school and college-job, marriage, retiement homes, hospices.
Own premises where religious education of children, upanayanam, pujas can be performed and upanyasams held.
The possibilities are vast and only limited by the lack of urge to change.
 

moorthy44

Member
natkaushik Ji,

Thanks for the kind response and sharing interesting information.

I am a member of Tamil Nadu Brahmins Association who are among other services......

provides various noble services to the members, subscribers of Thambraas magazine and all our community people.

is taking multi various steps for the retention of our culture and heritage.

is effectively taking all the necessary remedial measures for the provision of deserving opportunities in higher education to our younger generation.

is providing matrimonial services for its members, subscribers of Thambraas magazine and all our community people irrespective of sect, language and state.

provides pre-marital, post-marital counseling and any other type of genuine assistance so the case may be in marital services.

provides recruitment services for its members, subscribers of Thambraas magazine and all our community people.

is making all the efforts in making our younger generation to understand and feel the uniqueness of our culture and heritage to reduce inter-caste marriages to a great extent

Has 400 branches through out Tamil Nadu State and doing service silently.

Sir, you are free to continue your efforts. I stand by your side to support you. I will be only glad if there is some constructive development to help the community.

I really welcome such proposals wholeheartedly. And believe fervently that under your able involvement, guidance, contacts, rich experience, etc things will work out positively. I admire your initiation of such proposal for the cause of the community. It is a good start. You can do wonders. You are really great Sir

Wishing you all the best.

My pranams.

PS: I am just seventy and you have the liberty to address me as Murthy. No val please. :)
 
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renuka

Well-known member
I just have one question...what is the need for being held in high esteem by anyone?
Why can't one follow their Varna Dharma and tradition without looking for praise by others?

Elsewhere another member was stating that in his recent travels he was given "Superstar"treatment becos he donned a Yagnopavit and he even put a disclaimer that his post has no intention to make other communities feel less appreciated.

The question is..."do people actually seek praise? and what for?"
The Bhagavad Geeta says to "karmanyevadhikaraste ma phaleshu kadacana"..so why always wanting to be held in high esteem?

I feel that is why everyone gets so emotional and affected becos they are not getting praised.

The Sun shines no matter what..if someone praises the sun or curses it the sun still shines becos the sun knows he is the sun...only one who lacks confidence seeks praise.

I feel people should run their lives like that too..just do your duty..adhere to it..there is no need to seek the praise of others or even be held in high esteem.
 

natkaushik

Active member
I just have one question...what is the need for being held in high esteem by anyone?
Why can't one follow their Varna Dharma and tradition without looking for praise by others?

Elsewhere another member was stating that in his recent travels he was given "Superstar"treatment becos he donned a Yagnopavit and he even put a disclaimer that his post has no intention to make other communities feel less appreciated.

The question is..."do people actually seek praise? and what for?"
The Bhagavad Geeta says to "karmanyevadhikaraste ma phaleshu kadacana"..so why always wanting to be held in high esteem?

I feel that is why everyone gets so emotional and affected becos they are not getting praised.

The Sun shines no matter what..if someone praises the sun or curses it the sun still shines becos the sun knows he is the sun...only one who lacks confidence seeks praise.

I feel people should run their lives like that too..just do your duty..adhere to it..there is no need to seek the praise of others or even be held in high esteem.
Praise and esteem matter because they are the indicators of the good work done and an encouragement to self and others to do such deeds. Of course nor all who do service because they want the appreciation and esteem, but will definitely be happy to receive them.
 

sansubr

Member
I guess the main point that Shri Natkaushik is trying to make is not about esteem, but about westernization of TN Iyers and Iyers across the country. Brahmins are invested in English medium education more than anyone. They are getting more westernized and are the first to abuse their own culture. I have come across many Iyer Brahmin families who speak in English and struggle to reply in their own mother tongue Tamil. They think that only by speaking English, they are somehow elevated in the social order - a colonial idea left over by the British. It is so silly to see this even today. They look at their own culture from the western lens instead of their own lens.

Steps to be taken:
1. People in high positions, such as assocations, etc., kindly create awareness that English medium education can only create good clerks, not innovators. If a country must grow, it's communities must first grow. Which means, our community must educate it's new generation in either mother tongue or Sanskrit. Why? Because take any advanced nation like Japan, China, Germany, France, Israel, Russia, South Korea, they don't study anything in English. They study in their mother tongue. Out of the top 20 countries in the world by economy, only 4 use English that too because that is their mother tongue. India is the only colonial country that is silly enough to use English for education and stunting the cognitive development of children. Urban class people think that English is some advantage - this is absolutely false. Even UN has said that everyone must study in their mother tongue if the economy and country has to grow. Our people will innovate and create new things if only their think in their mother tongue, not in English.
2. Please come together to reclaim temples from government control. Hardly any Brahmin is bothered to provide help to other people who are fighting hard to reclaim temples. Why is this important? Temples are the center of economic growth, of education, of arts, of community development. Temple wealth can run gurukulas, hospitals and even give loans to entrepreneurs. Right now, all this money is being looted by the govt. Pls fight and reclaim your own God's home.
3. Spend your time to study Sanskrit. This will give crystal clear understanding of everything.
4. Kindly perform Sandhya vandhanam atleast once a day.

Just by doing these 4 things, Iyers can firstly get rooted in their culture and then reclaim it. Brahmins need to respect their own culture first.
 
Namaskarangal,

I see both the boast & cry of the organizations... But as an individual, am not clear enough on the future of the community. Many questions arise when I think of the society and our part in it (both as Individual and as Brahmin community).
1. Are we mature enough, that we think we aren't Brahmins just because we were born in a "brahmin" family. Few school of thought spake that Brahmins will deserve to himself Brahmin ONLY when he does the acts of a Brahmin (Few to say wearing Poonal, chanting Gayathri, Avani Attam etc... forget asking for daily Sadhyavandham, Mathyaneegam, etc).
2. If point 1 is not a criteria to called as Brahmin, then what is?
3. Should we fight for being a community or thrive as a community?
4. What is the difference between Brahmin community and other communities. Again not looking for veg vs non-veg, priestly vs non-priestly etc.. A community is a group of people of like minded or believes. What is our belief?
5. Should we just delve on past generations and belittle our present and future generations?
And many more…
Questions may rise, few may answer…few may ignore...few may refute.. Thinking doesn’t stop for one or for all… But thinking should not stop at just thinking, just act on it and repeat action.

Regards
Venkat
 

natkaushik

Active member
I guess the main point that Shri Natkaushik is trying to make is not about esteem, but about westernization of TN Iyers and Iyers across the country. Brahmins are invested in English medium education more than anyone. They are getting more westernized and are the first to abuse their own culture. I have come across many Iyer Brahmin families who speak in English and struggle to reply in their own mother tongue Tamil. They think that only by speaking English, they are somehow elevated in the social order - a colonial idea left over by the British. It is so silly to see this even today. They look at their own culture from the western lens instead of their own lens.

Steps to be taken:
1. People in high positions, such as assocations, etc., kindly create awareness that English medium education can only create good clerks, not innovators. If a country must grow, it's communities must first grow. Which means, our community must educate it's new generation in either mother tongue or Sanskrit. Why? Because take any advanced nation like Japan, China, Germany, France, Israel, Russia, South Korea, they don't study anything in English. They study in their mother tongue. Out of the top 20 countries in the world by economy, only 4 use English that too because that is their mother tongue. India is the only colonial country that is silly enough to use English for education and stunting the cognitive development of children. Urban class people think that English is some advantage - this is absolutely false. Even UN has said that everyone must study in their mother tongue if the economy and country has to grow. Our people will innovate and create new things if only their think in their mother tongue, not in English.
2. Please come together to reclaim temples from government control. Hardly any Brahmin is bothered to provide help to other people who are fighting hard to reclaim temples. Why is this important? Temples are the center of economic growth, of education, of arts, of community development. Temple wealth can run gurukulas, hospitals and even give loans to entrepreneurs. Right now, all this money is being looted by the govt. Pls fight and reclaim your own God's home.
3. Spend your time to study Sanskrit. This will give crystal clear understanding of everything.
4. Kindly perform Sandhya vandhanam atleast once a day.

Just by doing these 4 things, Iyers can firstly get rooted in their culture and then reclaim it. Brahmins need to respect their own culture first.
Namaskarangal,

I see both the boast & cry of the organizations... But as an individual, am not clear enough on the future of the community. Many questions arise when I think of the society and our part in it (both as Individual and as Brahmin community).
1. Are we mature enough, that we think we aren't Brahmins just because we were born in a "brahmin" family. Few school of thought spake that Brahmins will deserve to himself Brahmin ONLY when he does the acts of a Brahmin (Few to say wearing Poonal, chanting Gayathri, Avani Attam etc... forget asking for daily Sadhyavandham, Mathyaneegam, etc).
2. If point 1 is not a criteria to called as Brahmin, then what is?
3. Should we fight for being a community or thrive as a community?
4. What is the difference between Brahmin community and other communities. Again not looking for veg vs non-veg, priestly vs non-priestly etc.. A community is a group of people of like minded or believes. What is our belief?
5. Should we just delve on past generations and belittle our present and future generations?
And many more…
Questions may rise, few may answer…few may ignore...few may refute.. Thinking doesn’t stop for one or for all… But thinking should not stop at just thinking, just act on it and repeat action.

Regards
Venkat
Iyers like other Brahmin sects have above average intellectual abilities and have strong opinions on how brahmins can keep alive the traditions of centuries. This can be done neither individually nor in a large group where there would be little individual interaction. An association of Iyers could be a manageable group to consult mutually in groups in forums whatsup and other groups initially chalk out the goals and the steps needed to achieve them and later meet physically.
Brahmins as individual sects need to organise themselves vedádyatanam and karmas but need to keep a strong laukika foundation.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Iyers like other Brahmin sects have above average intellectual abilities and have strong opinions on how brahmins can keep alive the traditions of centuries. This can be done neither individually nor in a large group where there would be little individual interaction. An association of Iyers could be a manageable group to consult mutually in groups in forums whatsup and other groups initially chalk out the goals and the steps needed to achieve them and later meet physically.
Brahmins as individual sects need to organise themselves vedádyatanam and karmas but need to keep a strong laukika foundation.
Natkaushik Ji,

A person who knows God; a priest. Brahmin is one of the four Hindu castes.

Representing the fourth and highest Hindu caste or varna in the ancient system, brahmins are characterized by their contemplative nature. In sharing their spiritual wisdom, brahmins are both inspired and inspiring.

Traditionally, brahmins are designated to serve as spiritual teachers or priests. Although priesthood may be a mere profession, for the brahmin spiritual wisdom is the only knowledge worth having, and the wisdom may be shared freely with others. The natural duties of the brahmin are toward mind control (concentration), sense control, self-restraint, purity, forgiveness, integrity, wisdom, faith, and meditation on the higher truth. Although these duties are shared by all people, brahmins must work toward the perfection of their potential.

Members of the brahmin caste fulfill the spiritual calling. The brahmin type has attained eternal rest within himself by conquering his ego and ceases to identify threats outside of himself. The constitution of brahmins is marked by the predominance of the sattva guna; sattva is the principle of enlightenment.

Brahmin may also refer to the social caste in India based on heredity; however, the ancient Hindu varna system was actually based on man’s natural inclinations and purposes despite his social class at birth.


I think your thread flies against the basic definition of the word Brahmin.
A little less ego and a little bit of humility added might be more palatable. Sugarcoating the bitter pill.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Praise and esteem matter because they are the indicators of the good work done and an encouragement to self and others to do such deeds. Of course nor all who do service because they want the appreciation and esteem, but will definitely be happy to receive them.
Depends if you are seeking it or not.
Praise can be fake too.
Esteem can be just momentary too.
Why depend on reciprocation to do our duty?
Doing duty right is sufficient.
Depending on praise or esteem can lead to ruin cos one depends on others feedback to do duties right and when faced with blame and censure one goes into anger mode or becomes dejected.

The Geeta is clear about being equal minded in happiness and sorrow..gain and loss..victory and defeat.

I am yet to find any religious text that says.." seek appreciation from others..look to be held in high esteem"
On the contrary religious text teaches us to rid ourselves of " I am the doer" feeling.

If we are meant to rid ourselves of " I am the doer" feeling , surely looking for praise and wanting to be held in high esteem goes out of the door cos if we are not the doer..all praises can only go to God and none but God.
 

vembuv

New member
It was Mr. Cho Ramaswamy who remarked that Tamil Brahins are the people who fight with each other , degrade themselves and paint the entire community in shades of dark.

Now, we are a sinking ship…. with lot of cracks, holes and seepage. First we need to safeguard the community from ourselves.

First and the foremost thing is our young generation has moved out of Tamil Nadu looking for job opportunity. While most have moved to upcountries, few have moved other parts of India. Our youngsters took advantage of the growing IT line, exploited and have now well settled, financially. And now we started talking about our Unity, culture, tradition and population which is already waning.

This young generation which spread across all over India and abroad, mingled with other castes and started to embrace ‘Inter-caste’ marriages. Of course, they would have thought that this was very interesting, exciting in several aspects. First thing is, there is change in culture. There are lot of pros and cons in ‘Inter-cross’ marriage.

Directors of Tamil Nadu,few of them, like Balachander who are very popular show Tamil Brahmins in poor light.

Some of famous Brahmin actors define themselves as agnostic, pass comments against our own community

There are dialogues and lyrics and language aiming towards tarnish the image of Brahmins.

Novalists like …..sankari, Indumadhi project Brahmins in poor light in her novels… There was novel with caption “Irandu Per” (Two persons) where a bored Brahmin wife is sexually attracted to a photographer (shades of the Bengali movie Paroma perhaps ?).

There were lot of movies showing our culture, our traditions, our rituals and our language in poor light. I cannot name them all here.

This made others to go for adverse criticism …like movie called “Agraharathil kazhuthai” (“A donkey in Brahmin lane”).

We talk lot about coming together, like minded joining hands to reclaim the root and strengthening our community.

If we stop practicing speaking, writing and mocking our own community, it will start growing automatically.

The enemy is within. When are we going to wither the negative influence on our age old rich culture, traditions and rituals. Let us realize the truth and at least now do some repair work.

Look at other communities...they don't comment or mock practices, cultures of their own community. Let us learn from them.

On one side, we are damaging it and on the there side come here to lament about the damage. lol

தீதும் நன்றும் பிறர் தர வாரா
 
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natkaushik

Active member
All of Krishna's exposition of Nishkámya karma to Arjuna was only to prepare him to kill all his relatives dispassionately, without compunction or remorse.
All of us also know how the ideal brahmins should be which we aren't and also that our future generations will be still further from that ideal than we are. The least we can do is make thei future better for them by coming together and devising some programmes for it. First as a community wirh same interests and goals, not just as flag bearers of brahmin dharma.
 

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