Whither Iyers?

[Visalakshi Ramani]

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Whither went all those Iyers who
were wondering, " Whither Iyer"?

 

[natkaushik]

Whither went all those Iyers who
were wondering, " Whither Iyer"?

What is the attitude of Iyers to joining together to help each other reclaim our lost heritage viz., adhyayanam, ácáram, samskáram etc.? Studied indifference. Only pontification about what a brahmin should be but isn't and so on. Why I talk of Iyers only and not of all brahmins? Because Iyengars are well organised as a community, Iyers aren't and as it appears never will be. Iyers should first consolidate themselves as a community, as a 'Kulam' or 'vamśam' and not as a Varṇa with duties within Sanáthana Dharma. After coming together we can think about resurrecting our past 'glory'. Till then we are a bunch of has beens.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Iyengars may be more organized than Iyers since they protest by street marches -
when they feel hurt by the words and actions of random, insensitive and thoughtless people.

I am sorry to say this but it is true my experience. The worst enemy of One Iyer is Another Iyer and not anyone else. They backbite, spread rumours and disturb the peace of mind in every possible manner.

Accepting or refuting this statement is left to your own discretion.
If you need proof just look around you or browse here in the Forum.

Come all Ye together. I am not the one stopping it from happening. ?

In Fact I will be delighted to see a Unified Iyer Community -
with less wasted words and more real achievements.

Nothing unites people like a common aim or a common enemy.
I guess now you have both of these!

P.S.

When I posted in another Forum meant for Iyers, an excellent post solving a confusion involving Brahman and Para Brahmam, the star writers there could bring themselves to accept a post from a novice and that too from a lady.

When I and my sister entered this Forum, there was a Mass Exodus of the then established writers. Later some of them tried to make us also go over to where they have started writing!

I am sure You have been long enough here to know of all the happenings and I need not tell you any more.

Good Luck and thanks for your feedback!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

We know WHAT we have become now ..........from WHAT we used to be!

We must also know WHY we have become - WHAT we have become now!

12#7a. கௌதமர் (1)
12#7b. கௌதமர் (2)
12#7c. கௌதமர் (3)
12#7d. கௌதமர் (4)
12#7e. கௌதமர் (5)

 

[natkaushik]

1. Agraharams don't exist anymore. There are more non brahmins than brahmins in many of the agraharams in Palakkad which I had visited!

2. The four VarNas;
Originally the population of every country was divided into four VarNas - all of which were equally great and also equally important to the proper functioning and governing of a country.

3. Caste system
This was later superimposed on the existing system of VarNas. Thereafter some people started feeling that they were superior to the others - just by birth and not necessarily by their character or their achievements. Sects, subsects and micro subsects managed to creep in gradually.

The original role of a Brahmin was to learn and teach all the others. He had to lead a simple and contented life following many strict austerities. A brahmin was supposed to read and teach not hoard and boast about his wealth.

4. A continuous Brain Drain has made the bright, young sons and daughters of our country spread all over the world. On them their parent do not have any control and those young things will decide to marry anyone they want to live with.

5.The mixing of Varnas ( and also Castes) has been predicted thousands of year ago. Bhagavad Gita speaks of this elaborately.

6. When Economics has become the axis around which the world rotates as it does now, such happenings are inevitable.

[ பொருளாதாரமே உலகின் வாழ்வாதாரம் ]

We should be more than happy if the boy and the girl who decide to get married belong to the same profession ( a modified and modern form of Varna) and keep at least the VarNa system alive.

Hoping or expecting to go back to the tight-knit-agraharam-style-of-life is merely a pipe dream!

https://www.eaglespace.com/spirit/gita_castesystem.php

There is no question or thought for family, lineage, gotra etc., only fulfilment of lusty desires. This is the common manner that so-called human society has diminished to in the present time. Consequently there are so many social ills occurring from such a situation as predicted in Bhagavad Gita (1:40-41) :

http://tenets.parsizoroastrianism.com/inter5.html

न वर्णा न वर्णाश्रमाचारधर्मा न मे धारणाध्यानयोगादयोऽपि । अनात्माश्रयाहंममाध्यासहानात् तदेकोऽवशिष्टः शिवः केवलोऽहम् ॥ ᳚The castes(वर्णा) are not for me, nor the observances (आचार) and duties (धर्म) attached to the castes and the stages of life (आश्रम). Even steadying of the mind (धारणा) , concentration (ध्यान), self-communion (योग)and other courses are not for me. For the mistaken senses of I (अहम्)and MINE (मम) which rested on the Non-Self (अनात्मा) have been abondoned. That One, the Residue, the Auspicious (शिवः)the Alone, am I. निर्वाणदशकम्। http://Sanskritdocuments.org

I would like to be a simple Iyer wanting to observe the tradition of my ancestors and pass them on to next generations.

 

[asadu]

न वर्णा न वर्णाश्रमाचारधर्मा न मे धारणाध्यानयोगादयोऽपि । अनात्माश्रयाहंममाध्यासहानात् तदेकोऽवशिष्टः शिवः केवलोऽहम् ॥ ᳚The castes(वर्णा) are not for me, nor the observances (आचार) and duties (धर्म) attached to the castes and the stages of life (आश्रम). Even steadying of the mind (धारणा) , concentration (ध्यान), self-communion (योग)and other courses are not for me. For the mistaken senses of I (अहम्)and MINE (मम) which rested on the Non-Self (अनात्मा) have been abondoned. That One, the Residue, the Auspicious (शिवः)the Alone, am I. निर्वाणदशकम्। http://Sanskritdocuments.org

I would like to be a simple Iyer wanting to observe the tradition of my ancestors and pass them on to next generations.

Your above quote under reference fits for a sanyasi who abondones the material world and vows for general well being of all including everything existing and non existing. For those who are grahasthas, and follow the caste dharma, as per the current circumstances, should adopt to the new regime. Atleast extend a helping hand to our community.

 

[prasad1]

न वर्णा न वर्णाश्रमाचारधर्मा न मे धारणाध्यानयोगादयोऽपि । अनात्माश्रयाहंममाध्यासहानात् तदेकोऽवशिष्टः शिवः केवलोऽहम् ॥ ᳚The castes(वर्णा) are not for me, nor the observances (आचार) and duties (धर्म) attached to the castes and the stages of life (आश्रम). Even steadying of the mind (धारणा) , concentration (ध्यान), self-communion (योग)and other courses are not for me. For the mistaken senses of I (अहम्)and MINE (मम) which rested on the Non-Self (अनात्मा) have been abondoned. That One, the Residue, the Auspicious (शिवः)the Alone, am I. निर्वाणदशकम्। http://Sanskritdocuments.org

I would like to be a simple Iyer wanting to observe the tradition of my ancestors and pass them on to next generations.

Reply in post number 31 is very generous, and polite. But it points out the hollowness of the statement in post#30.

That One, the Residue, the Auspicious (शिवः)the Alone, am I. निर्वाणदशकम्।

Then nothing should matter and Iyer, TB, Indian and all branding also vanishes.
Humanity matters as it also matters to Shiva.

 

[natkaushik]

Then nothing should matter and Iyer, TB, Indian and all branding also vanishes.
Humanity matters as it also matters to Shiva.

One becomes ready to receive knowledge of atma only after going through the performance of Varna asrama Dharma, nitya naimitya karmas, when his attitude becomes ready for it. Without doing anything saying that I have given up everything is incongruous.

 

[prasad1]

One becomes ready to receive knowledge of atma only after going through the performance of Varna asrama Dharma, nitya naimitya karmas, when his attitude becomes ready for it. Without doing anything saying that I have given up everything is incongruous.

What is your definition of Varna Ashram?
The four caste systems based on birth?
The four stages of the life of human beings?

 

[natkaushik]

What is your definition of Varna Ashram?
The four caste systems based on birth?
The four stages of the life of human beings?

I am not qualified to define Varnas. There are plenty of treatises on Dharma Sastras which define them. However, I understand that,as the name 'Varnas' imply, they are the descriptions of the different categories of functions of humans (Dharmas)(apart from those common with animals), which sustain human life. Asrama of course is what you've succinctly defined. Now that I have give up most of my Varnáśrama Dharmas and Karnas, These are no longer relevant to me. The only identify I cherish is as Iyer and the only samskaras, my family tradition.

 

[prasad1]

I am not qualified to define Varnas. There are plenty of treatises on Dharma Sastras which define them. However, I understand that,as the name 'Varnas' imply, they are the descriptions of the different categories of functions of humans (Dharmas)(apart from those common with animals), which sustain human life. Asrama of course is what you've succinctly defined. Now that I have give up most of my Varnáśrama Dharmas and Karnas, These are no longer relevant to me. The only identify I cherish is as Iyer and the only samskaras, my family tradition.

I am not asking you for a thesis on Varanas, I want to know what is the meaning of Varna ashram you are talking in your post#30. There are various definitions and various categories if Varna Ashram. What did you mean in that post?

 

[natkaushik]

I am not asking you for a thesis on Varanas, I want to know what is the meaning of Varna ashram you are talking in your post#30. There are various definitions and various categories if Varna Ashram. What did you mean in that post?

Post #30 was a quotation from Nirváṇa Dasakam of Śankara Bhagavatpádá. What I understood I have written in #35. Kindly enlighten us on what it is and what it isn't, instead of waiting for my views.

 

[prasad1]

Post #30 was a quotation from Nirváṇa Dasakam of Śankara Bhagavatpádá. What I understood I have written in #35. Kindly enlighten us on what it is and what it isn't, instead of waiting for my views.

I am repasting my post #34
What is your definition of Varna Ashram?
Which of the following Ashrams are you talking about?
The four caste systems based on birth? Or
The four stages of the life of human beings?

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

மழித்தலும் நீட்டலும் வேண்டா உலகம்
பழித்தது ஒழித்து விடின்

(அதிகாரம்: கூடாவொழுக்கம் - குறள் எண்: 280)

மனத்துக்கண் மாசிலன் ஆதல் அனைத்துஅறன்
ஆகுல நீர பிற

(அதிகாரம்: அறன் வலியுறுத்தல் - குறள் எண்: 34)

 

[natkaushik]

I am repasting my post #34
What is your definition of Varna Ashram?
Which of the following Ashrams are you talking about?
The four caste systems based on birth? Or
The four stages of the life of human beings?

What my views are I've expressed already in my pists 35 &37.ive nothing more to add. I rest my case.

 

[Raghavan0418]

TN Iyers have steadily been loosing their moorings over the past 50 years. Given up Vedic studies, Sanskrit and tamil knowledge, pariśecanam, Sandi, brahmayagñan, párvaṇam, tharpaṇam, mahalayam, visiting temples for pradosham, Karthigai,sankatahara chaturthi, fasting on Ekadasis, Shivaratri...No wonder Brahmins are not esteemed in TN.

50? Try 100. It is the very reason for that EEVR gained so much support.

 

[asadu]

50? Try 100. It is the very reason for that EEVR gained so much support.

Sir,
You are giving very generalised statement. If and when we were practising all these rituals, we were just sitting ducks for all to mull and much over our community. We were the wonderful target for all other communities to fulfill their wishes and demands. We were not even recognised within our own brethren and were awarded meagre amount for our rituals and rightfulness as brahmins. our children were toiling in poverty. practically we were begging one and all. So, why again push us to those same old turmoil. survival is paramount. If we are destroyed, again the Veda and scriptures and all other relevant systems would be reinstalled once pralayam happens and destroys us all.

 

[natkaushik]

Sir,
You are giving very generalised statement. If and when we were practising all these rituals, we were just sitting ducks for all to mull and much over our community. We were the wonderful target for all other communities to fulfill their wishes and demands. We were not even recognised within our own brethren and were awarded meagre amount for our rituals and rightfulness as brahmins. our children were toiling in poverty. practically we were begging one and all. So, why again push us to those same old turmoil. survival is paramount. If we are destroyed, again the Veda and scriptures and all other relevant systems would be reinstalled once pralayam happens and destroys us all.

I don't know whether you are narrating your personal experience or repeating what you have heard. But this is all the more reason for us to get together and strengthen our financial and spiritual base, instead of wallowing in self pity. No Iyer bothers whether another is doing the nitya karmas, pitru karyams, pujai punaskarams. By getting together, apart from mutual help like in a family, those who want to revive or continue the performance of samskaras can be helped.
संगच्छध्वं संवदध्वं
सं वो मनांसि जानताम्।
देवा भागं यथा पूर्वे
सञ्जानाना उपासते ||

 

[natkaushik]

I don't know whether you are narrating your personal experience or repeating what you have heard. But this is all the more reason for us to get together and strengthen our financial and spiritual base, instead of wallowing in self pity. No Iyer bothers whether another is doing the nitya karmas, pitru karyams, pujai punaskarams. By getting together, apart from mutual help like in a family, those who want to revive or continue the performance of samskaras can be helped.
संगच्छध्वं संवदध्वं
सं वो मनांसि जानताम्।
देवा भागं यथा पूर्वे
सञ्जानाना उपासते ||

समानी व आकूति: समाना हृदयानि व: |
समानमस्तु वो मनो यथा व: सुसहासति ||

May our intentions and aspirations be alike, so that a common objective unifies us all.

 

[asadu]

समानी व आकूति: समाना हृदयानि व: |
समानमस्तु वो मनो यथा व: सुसहासति ||

May our intentions and aspirations be alike, so that a common objective unifies us all.

If a brahmin is practicing Vedic duties i.e. vadhyar or sastrigal etc. the society frowns upon him as if he is from the alien world and the society refuses to give their daughter's hand. They are treated as society;s ills and lower class citizens and untouchables. Looked upon and treated as laughing stock. So, they wow to not let their children practice the same but go for english education and excell in their field. Nowadays who ever practices the vaideekam, either they are illiterate or semi studies or do not know the rules, sastras and rituals etc. and come only to make money and squeeze you people. The money you spend on these people is shear waste. They suck at whatever opportunity and make others feel as if they should denounce the caste system. So, unity and resurrection and recovery and reinstalling the faith is very hard.
Definitely, as you make a move towards, we all are with you to support you at very cause and save whatever is left of us.
You make move, we are behind you.

 

[prasad1]

समानी व आकूति: समाना हृदयानि व: |
समानमस्तु वो मनो यथा व: सुसहासति ||

May our intentions and aspirations be alike, so that a common objective unifies us all.

Are you for real? What you keep regurgitating are hollow words. They seem like bad dreams at best.
They are more like ....-.... wrapped in nice silver foil, looks good but it is still ....-.....

Be real, all purohits kids are a college graduate thriving in other professions.
If dreams were true every beggar would we driving an MB.
Our intentions and aspiration are not to be like anyone else. There are no common objectives. I want India and Indians everywhere to succeed.
I do not wear my caste identity on my sleeve. I am of Tamil Brahmin origin, I have never stayed in Tamil Nadu.
I study Geeta or other books for enlightenment, not for preaching and make money.

 

[natkaushik]

Re #46
What sort of 'brahmin' calls a quotation from Vedas as
' hollow words', ' bad dreams at best, ' like ....-.... wrapped in nice silver foil, looks good but it is still ....-.....'?
For all of your 'sterling ' qualities, you have boasted about, in spite of being a ' well-known member' of this forum, you don't have the common courtesy to carry on a civilised argument?

 

[natkaushik]

To sum up #45
1. Sástrigal/Vádyar are not respected. (by Iyers only others do respect)
2. Present crop of Sastrigals aren't well versed in mantras and rituals and are greedy.( Iyers have no belief in these rituals and don't want to spend any money on Sastrigal. One gets what one pays for).
We don't mind paying ₹250-500 as sevice charge for repair of Fridge/washing mc/ AC, but not the same to a sástrigal for sraddham/Avaṇi Avittam/tarpanam.
3. vaidikas are sending their children for english education, abandoning paurohityam. More power to them. Why serve a community which doesn't respect them nor their erudition, don't pay fair Dakshinai and don't believe in rituals?
To be continued
‌

 

[natkaushik]

Continuation of #48

Let us Iyers just forget our common Brahmin heritage, as the reason to come together, but our being a SOCIALLY COHESIVE group with common interests, family ties -past present and prospective-, facing similar external problems. Let first step be just an expression of intent.
The following site may enthuse Tamil Iyers.
http://www.keralabrahmanasabha.com/

 

[natkaushik]

The Iyer conundrum:
Gruhastá is the Anchor of Iyer community and the practitioner of Iyer's culture. From the time of entering the Gruhastásrama till Vánaprastá, he, with his wife, has enormous responsibilities to his family and to his community, as provider of necessities of life and a Support for the Elders who are
the teachers of culture and traditions to the children. With the family shrinking to a nucleus, elders living separately, where will Iyer children learn, practice and sustain the traditions? Those of us who feel that our descendents should be aquainted with them, have to do something about it.