-
This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
-
Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Whither Indian Culture?
- Thread starter GNANA SUNYAM
- Start date
- Status
Reproduced from my blog on saMpradAya and saMskrti
Culture – A western concept
The word 'culture' encompasses customs, ideas, social behavior, collective intellectual achievements passed on to successive generations etc'. Most of us are schooled in western thought processes and look at the world from that view. We do not have a direct linkage with thought processes in our ancient past.Many of our value systems are indeed derived from the west.
Though we claim them as ours, actually it is the result of us thinking like the west.When we say culture we look for past customs, traditions, intellectual achievements, past works etc that are passed onto us as one indivisible set, that we need to follow, maintain or evolve.But there is no such thing as 'culture' in our ancient past. There was no equivalence of this word culture in our ancient past.
In the past, we had two different words. One 'SampradAya' and another 'SaMskrti'.
saMpradAya – What we have been given collectively
Sam-pradAya means that is collectively (saM) given to us (pradA). Whatever is passed on to us is saMpradAya. It involves customs and traditions.
The way we dress is part of our saMpradAya. Different regions, castes and community groups had different saMpradAya with respect to the way we dress. It is because the way we would dress depended on climate, terrain and professional needs. Hence different regions in India had different saMpradAyas.
Several of our rituals depended on our saMpradAya. For eg. in Tambrahm community, most yajurvedis followed Apasthamba sutras, most sAmavedis followed drAhiyayana sutra. Though the grhiya sutras they followed were supposed to be common, depending on their migration patterns (sub-sects), depending on the family fortunes, rituals evolved differently.
Hence the saMpradAya of different Tambrahm families even inside the same subsect, sometimes even inside the same region varies slightly.Our worship methodologies are based on our saMpradAya. It varies from temple to temple, mutt to mutt. The way we dress our idols, the way we dress during the puja, the food that we offer to our gods all depend on saMpradAya. It varies widely. Altogether saMpradAyas are always supposed to evolve and supposed to vary.
Our food habits are part of our sampradAya. It varies based on region, availability of food, climatic conditions, professional needs etc. For those who are in coast fish is the sampradayic food. For those who are landed, rice and cereals are the sampradAyic food. For those who did not own land, eggs, poultry, mutton and beef were smapradAyic food.
For Brahmanas, the knowledge providers, who have reduced physical work and more mental work, sattvic food that does not have too much of sugar, fat with more fiber and biotic content is the sampradAyic food. For kshatriyas, the service providers, who have a lot more physical work combined with mental work, more of fat, carbohydrates, more spices (more passionate) content, rajasik food is the sampradAyic food. For vaishyas, the material providers, more tamasic food with lot more water content is the sampradAyic food.
Often we mistake saMpradAya as saMksrti , due to the western outlook we have.
saMskrti – Our collective performance as a society, as a team
saMskrti means our ‘collective performance’. saMskrti, our collective performance as a society defines our collective value systems. It is based on the collective moral principles that we follow. These moral principles and value systems make the society to work together as a team.
How does saMskrti develop..? It develops by saMskAras. saMs-kAras are collective actions. The saMskAra develops our saMskrti.
Our collective actions develop our our collective performance as a society, defines our value systems, defines our moral principles or moral compass, which make our society to work together as a team.
Panini answers what is a saMskAra like this “samparyupebhyaḥ karotu bhūṣaṇe”. The act that adorns one’s personality is a saMskAra. The Shabda-koṣa defines it as “saṃskārāṇāṃ guṇāntarādhānam saṃskāraḥ” — that which brings about quality transformation. The Jaiminiya sutras define saMskAra as acts which make a certain person or thing fit for a particular purpose. Acts that impart suitability by removing the sinful thoughts (pApa-ksaya) or generating a clean mind (citta-suddhi) are saMskAras.
The eight Atma gunas required for a team
A society is a team of people who work together to collectively progress the society. There are eight gunas that are required for a team to function effectively. These eight gunas are required in a society as a whole for it to work as a team, prosper and evolve.
The saMskAras are supposed to develop these eight Atma gunas.
The eight gunas are dayA (compassion), kSAnti (peace), ana-asuya (without envy), sauca (cleanliness), anayAsa (fatigue free), mangala (happy minded with positive thoughts), akArpaNya (free from miserliness), asprha (free from longing or continued attachment).These eight Atma gunas are to be developed by saMskAras, our collective actions, which will define our collective performance as a society.
These eight gunas define our saMskrti.When someone talks of Sanatana dharma saMskrti or its culture, these eight coming out through the collective performance of our society is what should be meant. Each one of these gunas are well thought through gunas.
dayA
A sanatana dharmic society has to be filled with dayA or compassion to others. A society is a team-work. In any team, weakness of one has to be compensated with strength of another. With compassion, weakness in people gets matched with strength from others. The society is able to function better as a team.
kSAnti
A sanatana dharmic society has to be filled with kSAnti. For an evolving society, an order is required. For order peace is required.
anasUya
A sanatana dharmic society has to be filled with ana-asuya. It has to be free from envy of each other. A society is like a team of people. In a team people don’t compete with each other. They compete with natural forces, their environment to reach their overall goals. For team-working, not being envious is a key criteria. Everyone has a role to play. No role is big or small. Envy amongst people leads to pulling down of each other or under-cutting each other and the overall society suffers. For eg. the jAti based varna dharma implementation lead to asuya amongst the castes which resulted in invaders being successful.
sauca
A sanatana dharmic society has to be clean. Sauca or cleanliness leads to society being disease free and able to prosper.
anayAsa
A sanatana dharmic society has to be fatigue-free ( anayAsa). It means that some members of the society should not be overworked or burnt-out, while some others enjoy.
mangala
A sanatana dharmic society has to have happy people with positive thoughts (mangala) leading to auspicious environment. It should have inspired, motivated people looking for a glorious future.
akarpaNya
A sanatana dharmic society should not have misers or it should be miser-free (akarpaNya). People who have a miserly mind-set tend to be extremely self-centric. Though they may have dayA (compassion) in their heart, their self-centric miserly mindset makes them not to help others.
aspRha
A sanatana dharmic society should not have people extremely longing or extremely ambitious (spRha) for anything. That extreme ambition or longing could be for money, power, position etc makes them hide the truth and somehow remain in power or retain money to remain where they are.
As Satyam Raju once said, they start riding a tiger with their lies, with their mis-information campaign, with their deceiving and hoodwinking of people around them. If they become powerful, the entire society gets hoodwinked by their lies, by their deceit campaigns and the entire society pays for their ambitions. History has lot of such people who were extremely ambitious from Ravana to Hitler who led their society to destruction.
saMskrti - Make our society to work as a team
Our saMskAras, our collective actions, have to make us learn and exhibit these eight gunas, which will make our society to work as a single team.
Our saMskrti our collective performance has to display these eight gunas. These eight gunas help a society to work as a single team and evolve and progress.That is the real saMskrti or the essence of what we indicate as 'culture'.
-TBT
Culture – A western concept
The word 'culture' encompasses customs, ideas, social behavior, collective intellectual achievements passed on to successive generations etc'. Most of us are schooled in western thought processes and look at the world from that view. We do not have a direct linkage with thought processes in our ancient past.Many of our value systems are indeed derived from the west.
Though we claim them as ours, actually it is the result of us thinking like the west.When we say culture we look for past customs, traditions, intellectual achievements, past works etc that are passed onto us as one indivisible set, that we need to follow, maintain or evolve.But there is no such thing as 'culture' in our ancient past. There was no equivalence of this word culture in our ancient past.
In the past, we had two different words. One 'SampradAya' and another 'SaMskrti'.
saMpradAya – What we have been given collectively
Sam-pradAya means that is collectively (saM) given to us (pradA). Whatever is passed on to us is saMpradAya. It involves customs and traditions.
The way we dress is part of our saMpradAya. Different regions, castes and community groups had different saMpradAya with respect to the way we dress. It is because the way we would dress depended on climate, terrain and professional needs. Hence different regions in India had different saMpradAyas.
Several of our rituals depended on our saMpradAya. For eg. in Tambrahm community, most yajurvedis followed Apasthamba sutras, most sAmavedis followed drAhiyayana sutra. Though the grhiya sutras they followed were supposed to be common, depending on their migration patterns (sub-sects), depending on the family fortunes, rituals evolved differently.
Hence the saMpradAya of different Tambrahm families even inside the same subsect, sometimes even inside the same region varies slightly.Our worship methodologies are based on our saMpradAya. It varies from temple to temple, mutt to mutt. The way we dress our idols, the way we dress during the puja, the food that we offer to our gods all depend on saMpradAya. It varies widely. Altogether saMpradAyas are always supposed to evolve and supposed to vary.
Our food habits are part of our sampradAya. It varies based on region, availability of food, climatic conditions, professional needs etc. For those who are in coast fish is the sampradayic food. For those who are landed, rice and cereals are the sampradAyic food. For those who did not own land, eggs, poultry, mutton and beef were smapradAyic food.
For Brahmanas, the knowledge providers, who have reduced physical work and more mental work, sattvic food that does not have too much of sugar, fat with more fiber and biotic content is the sampradAyic food. For kshatriyas, the service providers, who have a lot more physical work combined with mental work, more of fat, carbohydrates, more spices (more passionate) content, rajasik food is the sampradAyic food. For vaishyas, the material providers, more tamasic food with lot more water content is the sampradAyic food.
Often we mistake saMpradAya as saMksrti , due to the western outlook we have.
saMskrti – Our collective performance as a society, as a team
saMskrti means our ‘collective performance’. saMskrti, our collective performance as a society defines our collective value systems. It is based on the collective moral principles that we follow. These moral principles and value systems make the society to work together as a team.
How does saMskrti develop..? It develops by saMskAras. saMs-kAras are collective actions. The saMskAra develops our saMskrti.
Our collective actions develop our our collective performance as a society, defines our value systems, defines our moral principles or moral compass, which make our society to work together as a team.
Panini answers what is a saMskAra like this “samparyupebhyaḥ karotu bhūṣaṇe”. The act that adorns one’s personality is a saMskAra. The Shabda-koṣa defines it as “saṃskārāṇāṃ guṇāntarādhānam saṃskāraḥ” — that which brings about quality transformation. The Jaiminiya sutras define saMskAra as acts which make a certain person or thing fit for a particular purpose. Acts that impart suitability by removing the sinful thoughts (pApa-ksaya) or generating a clean mind (citta-suddhi) are saMskAras.
The eight Atma gunas required for a team
A society is a team of people who work together to collectively progress the society. There are eight gunas that are required for a team to function effectively. These eight gunas are required in a society as a whole for it to work as a team, prosper and evolve.
The saMskAras are supposed to develop these eight Atma gunas.
The eight gunas are dayA (compassion), kSAnti (peace), ana-asuya (without envy), sauca (cleanliness), anayAsa (fatigue free), mangala (happy minded with positive thoughts), akArpaNya (free from miserliness), asprha (free from longing or continued attachment).These eight Atma gunas are to be developed by saMskAras, our collective actions, which will define our collective performance as a society.
These eight gunas define our saMskrti.When someone talks of Sanatana dharma saMskrti or its culture, these eight coming out through the collective performance of our society is what should be meant. Each one of these gunas are well thought through gunas.
dayA
A sanatana dharmic society has to be filled with dayA or compassion to others. A society is a team-work. In any team, weakness of one has to be compensated with strength of another. With compassion, weakness in people gets matched with strength from others. The society is able to function better as a team.
kSAnti
A sanatana dharmic society has to be filled with kSAnti. For an evolving society, an order is required. For order peace is required.
anasUya
A sanatana dharmic society has to be filled with ana-asuya. It has to be free from envy of each other. A society is like a team of people. In a team people don’t compete with each other. They compete with natural forces, their environment to reach their overall goals. For team-working, not being envious is a key criteria. Everyone has a role to play. No role is big or small. Envy amongst people leads to pulling down of each other or under-cutting each other and the overall society suffers. For eg. the jAti based varna dharma implementation lead to asuya amongst the castes which resulted in invaders being successful.
sauca
A sanatana dharmic society has to be clean. Sauca or cleanliness leads to society being disease free and able to prosper.
anayAsa
A sanatana dharmic society has to be fatigue-free ( anayAsa). It means that some members of the society should not be overworked or burnt-out, while some others enjoy.
mangala
A sanatana dharmic society has to have happy people with positive thoughts (mangala) leading to auspicious environment. It should have inspired, motivated people looking for a glorious future.
akarpaNya
A sanatana dharmic society should not have misers or it should be miser-free (akarpaNya). People who have a miserly mind-set tend to be extremely self-centric. Though they may have dayA (compassion) in their heart, their self-centric miserly mindset makes them not to help others.
aspRha
A sanatana dharmic society should not have people extremely longing or extremely ambitious (spRha) for anything. That extreme ambition or longing could be for money, power, position etc makes them hide the truth and somehow remain in power or retain money to remain where they are.
As Satyam Raju once said, they start riding a tiger with their lies, with their mis-information campaign, with their deceiving and hoodwinking of people around them. If they become powerful, the entire society gets hoodwinked by their lies, by their deceit campaigns and the entire society pays for their ambitions. History has lot of such people who were extremely ambitious from Ravana to Hitler who led their society to destruction.
saMskrti - Make our society to work as a team
Our saMskAras, our collective actions, have to make us learn and exhibit these eight gunas, which will make our society to work as a single team.
Our saMskrti our collective performance has to display these eight gunas. These eight gunas help a society to work as a single team and evolve and progress.That is the real saMskrti or the essence of what we indicate as 'culture'.
-TBT
You are nobody to say all this.
I hope you realise that you are a member who has repeatedly been warned.
Next time you will be reported .
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
There is no point in lamenting about how females dress up.
When no dress code is imposed, they are free to wear what they want.
And....... it is better to learn to see the face and talk!
The greatness of our Indian culture, especially found among one of the common traits of our indian women is, they never abuse freedom and they keep themselves disciplined regardless of their circumstances, uninfluenced by circumstances. this trait of indians, especially our women, comes from within them and is not imposed on them, not thrust on them through external agents and is not forced upon them. sadly this trait is waning especially among women who are in their twenties in the 21st century. that is what is causing concern.
The web and open economy providing access to trends of fashion all over the world and women getting access to education and employment guaranteeing good money
has changed their mindsets.They navigate the complex social space asserting their right to be more equal . They dress in a way which suits them.They reserve the right
to do exactly what suits them.It is for men to recognise this and not either comment nor act to insult or pass derogatory comments becoming judgemental.
Why should senior men feel concerned about young girls in their twenties?
Discipline probably means subjugating the women to dress like women in Iran or saudi arabia and be subservient to men. They are living in a dream world. Womens
freedom is hard won fighting against all odds fighting for gender justice and against male mindset.Senior men will not be treated with respect by young women if they
continue to sermonise living in a dream world of their own
has changed their mindsets.They navigate the complex social space asserting their right to be more equal . They dress in a way which suits them.They reserve the right
to do exactly what suits them.It is for men to recognise this and not either comment nor act to insult or pass derogatory comments becoming judgemental.
Why should senior men feel concerned about young girls in their twenties?
Discipline probably means subjugating the women to dress like women in Iran or saudi arabia and be subservient to men. They are living in a dream world. Womens
freedom is hard won fighting against all odds fighting for gender justice and against male mindset.Senior men will not be treated with respect by young women if they
continue to sermonise living in a dream world of their own
tbs
0
There is no point in lamenting about how females dress up.
When no dress code is imposed, they are free to wear what they want.
And....... it is better to learn to see the face and talk!
hi
i remember one story.....when i was in army.....some jawans told the same story said by a lady officer..... it is better to learn to see
the face and talk.....
renuka
Well-known member
This is purely the imagination of males.
Its simple psychology..in the past only maternity was a certainity.
Paternity? Well that only a woman would know.
So men had built in fear that a child his wife was carrying could be the seed of another male..hence all culture vulture rules for women and men chose to delude themselves that women have built in mechanisms to stay disciplined..chaste etc but men are not bound by all these cock and bull...a woman is also human..we do not have to be goddesses to make males feel secure.
Wake up yaar..if you feel there is a so called imaginary decline in values among females now..may be they are just being honest that they are not bound by insecurities of males.
Stop being insecure..its not becoming of being a male.
kutas tva kasmalam idam
visame samupasthitam
anarya-justam asvargyam
akirti-karam Gyanasunya.
Gyanasunya! how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to infamy.
Last edited:
Raji Ram
Active member
I have already written how dresses of females have changed in each generation. So, not writing again!
Women have started earning, to give financial support to the spouse and parents. Let them dress up in whichever way they
feel comfortable. It is true that many oldies have become fashion conscious and wear see-through sarees + designer blouses!
Let them do it; it is their wish! I wonder whether a husband will be able to dominate his wife, in the 21st century!
There was a great carnatic singer, who was devoted to her husband and he used to select the silk saree and jewels which she
should wear for each of her stage appearance! Such women don't exist in 2017!
Women have started earning, to give financial support to the spouse and parents. Let them dress up in whichever way they
feel comfortable. It is true that many oldies have become fashion conscious and wear see-through sarees + designer blouses!
Let them do it; it is their wish! I wonder whether a husband will be able to dominate his wife, in the 21st century!
There was a great carnatic singer, who was devoted to her husband and he used to select the silk saree and jewels which she
should wear for each of her stage appearance! Such women don't exist in 2017!
When big money enters in families , the relationships undergo a transformation.This kind of money in the hands of working women changes attitudes towards her spouse
and her parents /parents in law.These women use that financial power fully to alter the gender balance home. They claim more rights decide on how and where to live
and what to spend on.Many men feel threatened by the raw financial power these women exhibit to control those around.In course of time many become enslaved to
wishes and fancies of the new empowered women.Very few men can come to terms with this change.Lol
and her parents /parents in law.These women use that financial power fully to alter the gender balance home. They claim more rights decide on how and where to live
and what to spend on.Many men feel threatened by the raw financial power these women exhibit to control those around.In course of time many become enslaved to
wishes and fancies of the new empowered women.Very few men can come to terms with this change.Lol
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
women breaking out of their shells, conquering dizzy heights in career is welcome.
women liberal in their expressions is welcome.
dressing to suit their needs is most welcome.
dress is just one of the factors, not the only factor, that determines how cultured we are. but there is a limit when crossed is a matter of concern.
it is not only dress, but for that matter any external manifestation of a perverted inner psyche does not augur well for indian culture.
rani laxmibhai of jhansi was a disciplined woman.
there are women in india who have captured pinnacles of glory in corporate career yet they are modest in their conduct.
mrs sudha murthy, queen of a very large corporate empire, woman possessed with tremendous intelligence, shows pinnacles of modesty not only in her dressing style, but also in her conduct, in her inter-personal relationships etc. pride, arrogance, conceit, superiority-complex are not there in her dictionary of life.
mrs indira krishnamoorthy nooyi is another classic example of typical indian woman executive, also known for her modesty.
there are many others to quote.
success never went to their heads.
these women have upheld our culture.
our own renuka in this forum, is another classic example of a cultured indian woman, although liberal in her outlook and outspoken in her opinions, is modest in character. Raji Ram is also included in the list.
I wish every indian woman emulates them.
Last edited:
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
queen elizabeth, monarch of the entire commonwealth, was a loving wife to her husband prince phillip. she neither dominated him nor was dominated by him.
why not Indian woman of 21st century emulate her!
renuka
Well-known member
prasad1
Active member
In another post, you said other women.
You know nothing about Queen Elizabeth.
You want modern Indian women to live your dream. That is not happening.
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/the-crown-netflix-queen-elizabeth-prince-philip-affair-marriage
Would you accept that role?
Last edited:
Vaagmi
0
A devastating war between India, China, Pakistan and Afghanistan can put back the economy of these countries by a decade. If that happens the womens' freedom which manifests in the form of all these dresses would also be put back by a decade.
As civilization progresses, as societies get integrated and defragmented, as science progresses, as population declines the need for a militarylike discipline in the basic unit of a society called family also disappears. And that results in some excesses including dress which defies accepted and adopted norms of the society. If there comes a catestrophy we may perhaps go back to the hunter gatherer type of family discipline because basically and physically God has created man be a hunter gatherer.
In military total and visible discipline is a given rule. When a senior officer just walks along every soldier on the way salutes him coming to attention. That is to convey that he is alert and accepts authority of the officer unquestiningly.
In a family the women accept the authority of the husband, the head of the family, voluntarily like the soldier for the common cause of the formation. A mistake by the leader can wipe out the entire formation of a 1000 soldiers in no time. And a certain decorum the women accepts to maintain in the interest of the family and its honour. Inside the bed room while the wildest of the fancies can be lived and enjoyed, in public if appropriately dressed, life's battles can be better fought and won with discipline.
Dharmam chara--said Veda cryptically as usual without elaborating.
As civilization progresses, as societies get integrated and defragmented, as science progresses, as population declines the need for a militarylike discipline in the basic unit of a society called family also disappears. And that results in some excesses including dress which defies accepted and adopted norms of the society. If there comes a catestrophy we may perhaps go back to the hunter gatherer type of family discipline because basically and physically God has created man be a hunter gatherer.
In military total and visible discipline is a given rule. When a senior officer just walks along every soldier on the way salutes him coming to attention. That is to convey that he is alert and accepts authority of the officer unquestiningly.
In a family the women accept the authority of the husband, the head of the family, voluntarily like the soldier for the common cause of the formation. A mistake by the leader can wipe out the entire formation of a 1000 soldiers in no time. And a certain decorum the women accepts to maintain in the interest of the family and its honour. Inside the bed room while the wildest of the fancies can be lived and enjoyed, in public if appropriately dressed, life's battles can be better fought and won with discipline.
Dharmam chara--said Veda cryptically as usual without elaborating.
renuka
Well-known member
A husband in a marriage esp Indian scenario is like a Abhimanyu in a Chakra Vyuhu...once he gets in there is no way out!
Last edited:
tbs
0
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
let this freedom not be abused!
There are laws of the lands GS sir to decide whether the women are the abused or the abusers.
Menfolks are not spotlessly clean and not abusing freedom to sermonise women and thay indulge in moral policing utilising this pretext to deny women their basic rights
in domestic and social space.
Menfolks are not spotlessly clean and not abusing freedom to sermonise women and thay indulge in moral policing utilising this pretext to deny women their basic rights
in domestic and social space.
renuka
Well-known member
True...most wars are fought becos men fight over women.
Ramayan involved Sita as cause of battle.
Mahabharat involved Draupadi to a great extent.
So guys..better thank us women..without us you can not be even a King.
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
sir,
is not our culture determined by how we conduct ourselves regarding matters beyond purview of law, where law of the land does not interfere, where we govern ourselves with our self-imposed law?
GNANA SUNYAM
Active member
perhaps we may have lived with perfect peace and harmony, in real utopia, as equals without women!
prasad1
Active member
This week in India a man slapped actress Gauhar Khan on a TV set for wearing a "short dress" and news emerged of outrage in a Mumbai law college at a strict dress code imposed on students. Fashion historian Toolika Gupta looks at ideas of decorum in fashion across India through the ages.
Every country has its own erogenous zones. What many Indians today believe are home-grown ideas of decorum and modesty are in fact British imports - bequeathed to us by the Raj.
The earliest representations of women show them with minimal clothing.
In sculptures from the Maury and Sunga periods (about 300 BC) - men and women wore rectangular pieces of fabric, on the lower part of the body and one on the upper part. Little else.
Image copyrightOTHERImages from the Gupta period - about the 7th or 8th Century - show stitched upper garments along with a breast band, as well as a lower garment.
Modesty has had different definitions over time and in different regions and communities. It was not always about covering your face and body and in many respects India's hot climate led the way. People just did what was convenient.
In the 15th Century we see Muslim and Hindu women wearing different outfits and the influence of the Mughal empire was decisive - they ruled most of India and Pakistan in the 16th and 17th Centuries. I have not seen written codes about how to dress, but Muslim women normally covered themselves and wore divided garments. These outfits gave birth to garments like the salwar kameez - virtually seen as a national dress in India today.
I
mage copyrightAUGUSTE RACINET
In Bengal, in the Victorian era, some women did not wear blouses under their saris - they went bare-breasted. This did not suit Victorian society, which had its own ideas of propriety, and blouses increasingly became the norm.
It was Jnanadanandini Debi, the wife of Satyendranath Tagore - brother of the famous Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore - who popularised the blouses, jackets and chemises and the modern style of the sari today after she was reportedly refused entry to clubs under the Raj for wearing the sari fabric over her bare breasts. Tagore is believed to have actively encouraged his wife to adopt Western ideas.
The terms "blouse" and "petticoat" - both English - made the leap into Indian vocabulary in the Victorian era. Shirts also came to be worn under the sari as part of high fashion and these rather British innovations are considered traditional garments.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30330693
It helps to know the history of our "culture".
Every country has its own erogenous zones. What many Indians today believe are home-grown ideas of decorum and modesty are in fact British imports - bequeathed to us by the Raj.
The earliest representations of women show them with minimal clothing.
In sculptures from the Maury and Sunga periods (about 300 BC) - men and women wore rectangular pieces of fabric, on the lower part of the body and one on the upper part. Little else.
Image copyrightOTHERImages from the Gupta period - about the 7th or 8th Century - show stitched upper garments along with a breast band, as well as a lower garment.
Modesty has had different definitions over time and in different regions and communities. It was not always about covering your face and body and in many respects India's hot climate led the way. People just did what was convenient.
In the 15th Century we see Muslim and Hindu women wearing different outfits and the influence of the Mughal empire was decisive - they ruled most of India and Pakistan in the 16th and 17th Centuries. I have not seen written codes about how to dress, but Muslim women normally covered themselves and wore divided garments. These outfits gave birth to garments like the salwar kameez - virtually seen as a national dress in India today.
mage copyrightAUGUSTE RACINET
In Bengal, in the Victorian era, some women did not wear blouses under their saris - they went bare-breasted. This did not suit Victorian society, which had its own ideas of propriety, and blouses increasingly became the norm.
It was Jnanadanandini Debi, the wife of Satyendranath Tagore - brother of the famous Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore - who popularised the blouses, jackets and chemises and the modern style of the sari today after she was reportedly refused entry to clubs under the Raj for wearing the sari fabric over her bare breasts. Tagore is believed to have actively encouraged his wife to adopt Western ideas.
The terms "blouse" and "petticoat" - both English - made the leap into Indian vocabulary in the Victorian era. Shirts also came to be worn under the sari as part of high fashion and these rather British innovations are considered traditional garments.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30330693
It helps to know the history of our "culture".
Last edited:
prasad1
Active member
Indians have mainly worn clothing made up of locally grown cotton. India was the one of the first places where cotton was cultivated and used even as early as 2500 BC during the Harappan Era. The remnants of the ancient Indian clothing can be found in the figurines discovered from the sites near the Indus Valley Civilisation, the rock cut sculptures, the cave paintings, and human art forms found in temples and monuments. These scriptures view the figures of human wearing the clothes which can be wrapped around the body. Taking the instances of the Sari to that of turban and the dhoti, the traditional Indian wears were mostly tied around the body in various ways. The clothing system was also related to the social and economic status of the person. The upper classes of the society wore fine muslin garments and silk fabrics while the common classes wore garments made up of locally made fabrics. For instance, Women from Rich families wore clothes (Sari specifically) made up of silk from China, but the common women wore sari made up of cotton or local fabrics. The Indus civilisation knew the process of silk production. Recent analysis of Harappan silk fibres in beads have shown that silk was made by the process of reeling, the art known only to China till the early centuries AD.
View attachment 6232
The Vedic age or the Vedic period was the time duration between 1500 and 500 BC
The garments worn in Vedic period mainly included a single cloth wrapped around the whole body and draped over the shoulder. People used to wear the lower garment called paridhana which was pleated in front and used to tie with a belt called mekhala and an upper garment called uttariya (covered like a shawl) which they used to remove during summers. "Orthodox males and females usually wore the uttariya by throwing it over the left shoulder only, in the style called upavita".[SUP][3][/SUP] There was another garment called pravara that they used to wear in cold. This was the general garb of both the sexes but the difference existed only in size of cloth and manner of wearing. Sometimes the poor people used to wear the lower garment as a loincloth only while wealthy would wear it extending to the feet as a sign of prestige.
The Gupta period is called the golden age of India lasted from 320 AD to 550 AD. Chandragupta was the founder of this empire. Stitched garments became very popular in this period only. Stitched garments became the sign of royalty. But antariya, uttariya, and other clothes still were in use.
The antariya worn by the women turned into gagri, which has many swirling effects exalted by its many folds. Hence dancers used to wear it a lot. As it is evident from many Ajanta paintings, women used to wear only the lower garment in those times, leaving the bust part bare. Later on, various kinds of blouses (Cholis) evolved. Some of them had strings attached leaving the back open while others was used to tie from front side, exposing the midriff. Calanika was an antariya which could be worn as kachcha and lehnga style together. Women sometimes wore antariya in saree style, throwing one end of it over the shoulder, but the main feature is that they did not use it to cover their heads as it was prominent in earlier periods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_clothing_in_India
GSji,
You pick the time period, and you get the culture. So accept and "enjoy" (?).:decision:
View attachment 6232
The Vedic age or the Vedic period was the time duration between 1500 and 500 BC
The garments worn in Vedic period mainly included a single cloth wrapped around the whole body and draped over the shoulder. People used to wear the lower garment called paridhana which was pleated in front and used to tie with a belt called mekhala and an upper garment called uttariya (covered like a shawl) which they used to remove during summers. "Orthodox males and females usually wore the uttariya by throwing it over the left shoulder only, in the style called upavita".[SUP][3][/SUP] There was another garment called pravara that they used to wear in cold. This was the general garb of both the sexes but the difference existed only in size of cloth and manner of wearing. Sometimes the poor people used to wear the lower garment as a loincloth only while wealthy would wear it extending to the feet as a sign of prestige.
The Gupta period is called the golden age of India lasted from 320 AD to 550 AD. Chandragupta was the founder of this empire. Stitched garments became very popular in this period only. Stitched garments became the sign of royalty. But antariya, uttariya, and other clothes still were in use.
The antariya worn by the women turned into gagri, which has many swirling effects exalted by its many folds. Hence dancers used to wear it a lot. As it is evident from many Ajanta paintings, women used to wear only the lower garment in those times, leaving the bust part bare. Later on, various kinds of blouses (Cholis) evolved. Some of them had strings attached leaving the back open while others was used to tie from front side, exposing the midriff. Calanika was an antariya which could be worn as kachcha and lehnga style together. Women sometimes wore antariya in saree style, throwing one end of it over the shoulder, but the main feature is that they did not use it to cover their heads as it was prominent in earlier periods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_clothing_in_India
GSji,
You pick the time period, and you get the culture. So accept and "enjoy" (?).:decision:
renuka
Well-known member
Yup...full fledged Bromance.
- Status
Share this page
Share this page
Latest ads
-
For rent Independent House for rent in ChromepetLandmark: Near Vivekananda School and Kumaran Kundram Temple
- Mahaperiyava82 (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires
-
Service Need samayal mamiNeed Iyer/Iyengar mami cook at sembakkam. It is little urgent so pls prioritise. Pls contact...
- Savithiri Seshadri (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
-
For rent [Property for Rent] 2 bhk for rent2 bhk rent in Thiruvanmiyur chennai- tbs (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
-
Wanted Wanted female Brahmin cook and caretaker in CoimbatoreNeed a female Brahmin cook and caretaker in Kovaipudur, Coimbatore
- Peace$ (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires
-
Wanted [Want to Buy] Property close to Perumal TemplePlanning to create a nandavanam for pushpa kainkaryam of Perumal.
- Balamuruganpulsars (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires