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Whither Indian Culture?

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" It is more of domination. perversion, voilence, and crime." Is this Indian culture? Is this our varied heritage? Is this what principles of hinduism taught us?



Is 'perversion' an indian psyche?



I am sorry it has come to this.

Are you saying that in our "heritage" (whatever that means) there was no crime in this land?

Violence against women is an international phenomenon. In India, rape, sexual assault, physical and verbal abuse become especially pervasive given their strongly roots in India’s history and societal norms. The issue of violence against women grows increasingly urgent, statistics illustrating that violence against women is on the rise. Between the years of 2001 and 2011, the number of crimes against women has risen an alarming 59%, the number one crime being rape (John 2013).

Within the Vedic Period (1500-800 BCE), however, society became increasingly structured. Despite women being honored as sacred within the Hindu culture, this time period also saw the establishment of the institution of marriage. This developed the obligation of women to remain in the household, and to birth a son. Following the Vedic Period, from around 500 BCE to 1850 CE, this dichotomous role for women was further cemented. Women came to be regarded as both an object of control and one of worship. Required to serve as both a submissive wife and a beacon of chastity, women soon became defined by the standards set by their husbands and families.

Furthermore, women also saw the separation of the two. On one hand, they were revered as goddesses, while on the other, their presence and participation were forbidden in religious practices. The Post-Vedic Period also saw the arrival of sati: a Hindu funeral ritual in which a widow was forced to commits suicide by way of lighting herself on fire.

Though India developed Kama Sutra, a literature on sex, and has ancient texts that speak of sex freely, foreign presence saw to the stigmatization of sexual liberalism. Since this time, Indian culture has been marked by conservatism and proceeds to consider sex a taboo. Indirectly, this perception offers cause for violence against women (Sharma 2014). Also during this time, women strongly became considered representatives of Indian culture and spirituality, and consequently were often kept at home in order to protect and preserve these entities from foreign influence.

The reason for this violence against women are:
Patriarchy

Often the most commonly referenced cause of violence against women, the patriarchy can be defined as a social system in which men are placed above women. This being so, group mentality and social practices follow suit, often resulting in the oppression and exploitation of women. India maintains a strong cultural expectation of women to be chaste and obedient. The normalization of this expectation manifests into women’s acceptance of their prescribed gender roles. This is not to say that women approve of nor appreciate their subjugation, but rather they are socialized to tolerate and even rationalize it.

In the aftermath of the 2012 Delhi rape, Kavita Krishnan, secretary of the All India Progressive Women’s Association, gave a speech entitled “Freedom Without Fear...”. The speech was largely publicized for its unique focus on the government’s misguided attempts to blame victims for the nation’s high rates of rape. Further, Krishnan references their public statements in which they reason that rape incident are largely because of women dressing certain ways or choosing to be out late at night without escorts. She argues that women need not justify being out late, but rather “women have a right to freedom without fear”, and that is what requires protection and respect. Krishnan evidences how the patriarchy indirectly blames women for the violation of women’s safety.

http://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/globalstudies/images/livne-gs-capstone-paper.pdf


In the ultimate analysis, there can be no two opinions about the need for stringent laws, sensitive judiciary, effective law and enforcement machinery and vigilant women's groups to deal with such atrocious crimes against women. But what is needed more than anything else is a total revolution in the thinking of our society that always blames the woman for the crime of which she is the victim, not the perpetrator.
 
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" It is more of domination. perversion, voilence, and crime." Is this Indian culture? Is this our varied heritage? Is this what principles of hinduism taught us?

Is 'perversion' an indian psyche?

SaMskrti (our culture) is in our action, not in our dress. Dress relates to our saMpradAya, our tradition. Covering our body varies with different saMpradAyas. But not ogling at women's body or getting provoked to rape on seeing flesh is not our saMskrti (though at all times some people wont follow it). Example I quoted earlier are the idols of temple.

I am not sure what is the principle of 'hinduism'. I consider the word 'Hindu' as similar to 'negro', 'gulut' etc a slang to bunch some people and shoo them off. It is a slur invented by invaders.

But in sanatana dharmic traditions, saMskAras that instil self-discipline and control were taught to instil the right saMskrti. Alas, not many of us learnt it the right way.

-TBT
 
Top 10 Reasons behind Rape, Teasing and Sexual Violence in India

Women are not weak, but those who think women to be weak are the actual losers. According to statistics every 20 minutes a girl is raped in India. The basic assumption behind the Rapes in India is the way modern women dresses and the way they look. But does that stop from a man raping a three year girl? Will wearing Sari and covered clothes stop man from assaulting and harassing the women? It is not about what women wears and does, it is about the dirty mentality and male ego that wants to control the Women and her life. No reason in the world could justify the crime of raping and molesting the women, but there are few reasons that provoke man to rape. Here we have compiled a list with few reasons that are the reasons behind increasing number of rapes in India.

10 Blaming the Western Culture


Every time Indian Women suffers a case of molestation, it is tendency of people to point the influence of western culture for the heinous act.

9 Backward Mentality


The obsolete thinking of Indian population has been a reason for the increasing number of rapes in India. In India, boys are preferred over girls. The cultural upbringing of men in our society teaches them that they are superior to girls. It is the cruel tradition in India which have constructed men as aggressive and women as Submissive.

8 Cowardliness of People


In India only 10 percent of total rape cases are reported and out of these only 24 percent see convictions.

7 Submissiveness of Women

Indian culture teaches a girl in her tender age to compromise and not compete with men. Be it for the sake of her brother, father, family or her future husband.

6 Male Dominated Society

Widespread male domination over women is one of the biggest reasons behind rape, teasing and sexual violence in India. According to Indian mythology, women are the one who should stay at home and look over the work related to home. They are not allowed to go out and work. Men are known as “Karta (Master)” the one who earns and owns the family. Males are the head of the family and are responsible for decision making. All this has led to a low status of women in our society. Rapes are the symptom of deep seated patriarchal and gender discrimination in our society which has a serious distorting effect on men’s attitude and behavior towards women.

5 Blaming and Pressurizing the Victim

In India, people mostly blame the victim instead of the culprit. Women are asked to marry the culprit or attacker so as to maintain peace in the family and the clan. 90 percent of the rapes in India do not even get reported due to the pressure from the family who in order to maintain their respect and esteem pressurize women to compromise. Blaming and pressurizing the women instead of the offender gives the criminal more vigor to continue his acts of shamefulness.

4 Lack of Police Force

Failure to provide security to the women has been a serious concern since long. There is lack of police force to safeguard the interests of general public. Also our police forces have less number of female police officers that makes it almost impossible for victim to explain her issues.

3 Illiteracy and Lack of Values

Education is an important tool through which people could be made aware of what is right and what is wrong. Education helps one in shaping his identity and personality. What one sees around in the childhood is what moulds him as a better person. Therefore, family values and respect to women should be taught since the early age to man.

2 Rotten Judiciary and Police System


No Terror of Police and Conviction-lack of fear of punishment is one of the most important reasons behind the increasing number of rapes and harassments. Today, men have no fear of conviction and punishment due to the sluggish nature of our judiciary system.

1 Lack of Respect for Woman


The biggest issue perhaps is the overall low status and lack of respect for women. India has one of the lowest sex ratio in terms of girls. Boys are considered over girls and female infanticide is most common practice to get rid of girls in India. Girls are considered as burden and are not allowed to get education. Women need nothing more but the safety that arises through mutually respectful relation between Men and Women. All measures to prevent rapes would be useful only if men start thinking high of women and makes efforts to protect a women’s self esteem.

http://www.listotop.com/top-10-reasons-behind-rape-teasing-and-sexual-violence-india/
 
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"What most women and girls have known or sensed from early childhood and what has been strenuously denied by many on both sides of the gender divide should now be accepted and dealt with realistically," wrote Subhanshini Ali, a former parliamentarian.

"Rape is the ultimate threat to keep women and girls 'in line'. It has little to do with the way a woman or a girl dresses or behaves but is the ultimate punishment meted out to them when they transgress limits that have been placed on their thoughts, desires and volition."

rape3.jpg
http://www.ibtimes.com/rape-india-e...women-children-rape-laws-arent-enough-2157704
 
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Salwar kameez / churidar sets are much better, even if the duppatta is NOT in the right place,

since they don't expose the back, like the barely-there blouses and low hip sarees!

Ever wondered why defeathered chicken are called 'dressed chicken'?

To dress = To expose!! :lol: (Just a thought!)


Not that there is anything wrong with exposing the back. :)

I hope those who are calling for a traditional dress sense, remember that ancient Indian women wore saree without blouse.
 
I think the following demonstrates progress on the part of women. No sarcasm intended.
To Renukaji's point, are men asking women's permission to dress how they want?


My observation:

1. Great grandma wore nine yards sarees without blouse.

2. Grandma wore nine yards sarees with matching blouse.

3. Mom wore six yards sarees with matching blouse.

4. I wear sarees + blouse / salwar sets. (I hate nighties)

5. D I L wears salwar sets / churidar / jeans + Tshirts / kurthis; Saree + grand blouse for special days.

6. Granddaughters wear jeans + Tshirts / kurthis and salwar sets / churidar on special occasions.

Nine yards sarees are ONLY for very special days - Wedding / seemantham / Sumangali prarthanai / srAddham.

Changes are inevitable.
 
in india women don't fall for men's biceps and six pack. they fall for a man's salary. but that is an entirely different discussion for a different thread.

Ha ha ha, you surely haven't seen women drooling for Salman, Hrithik, Prabhas, Mahesh, Vijay etc.

Times have changed.
 
But in sanatana dharmic traditions, saMskAras that instil self-discipline and control were taught to instil the right saMskrti. Alas, not many of us learnt it the right way.

-TBT

For this I need to conduct an experiment.

All human bodily responses ranging from blood flow..Blood Pressure..Heart rate..respiratory rate and also hormonal levels need to be measured before viewing Ms Leone's videos and also measure during and after.

Then we can note how much of Samskar..Samskriti works.
 
Hey you left out Rana!
Not only Rana; Surya too!
When the movie 'Ezham aRivu' was released, women were thronging to see Surya! :bump2:

In a show conducted by him, many mAmis wanted to shake hands with him,

though they might have actually wished a :hug: from him!!
wink-new.png
 
All this talk of "culture" ignores the fact that Culture is time bound.
When one talks of culture, one must specify the time frame. Culture is ever changing. Some culture lasts very short time, others last a little longer.

Dashratha had multiple wives, Rama had only one wife. So what was Hindu culture?

Of course, you can not follow any of the things they did in Mahabharata. Multiple husbands, extra-marital relations,
Multiple wives, lying, cheating, etc.
 
All this talk of "culture" ignores the fact that Culture is time bound.
When one talks of culture, one must specify the time frame. Culture is ever changing. Some culture lasts very short time, others last a little longer.

Dashratha had multiple wives, Rama had only one wife. So what was Hindu culture?

Of course, you can not follow any of the things they did in Mahabharata. Multiple husbands, extra-marital relations,
Multiple wives, lying, cheating, etc.

sir,

we are indians.

traditions and customs may change but imho the fact that 'indians of current age are cultured' does not change.

our indian culture is based on hinduism, accepted by all as the greatest and mother of all religions.

we ought to set a good precedent and an example for others to follow.

we cannot afford to ape and blindly imitate the west just because they are a super-power, sabotaging and committing sacrilege on our culture and in turn on hinduism.

if we degenerate in our culture, we cannot make tall claims about the religion of our land, about our heritage etc.

epics and legends not only teach us what to do but they also teach us what not to do.
 
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There you go again Mr. Sunyamji. Post#65
Culture is time and location bound.
Hinduism is a vast ocean, what one knows is less than a handful.
You can not generalize on the basis of personal knowledge.
Is there one authority on all of Hinduism? I doubt it.

So stop talking about nebulous things like culture as if it is accepted all over India or the world as Hindus encompass the whole universe (known and Unknown).

If your idea is to divide India in religious, caste, regions etc, I want no part of it.
For India, what is provided in the Constitution is all that is needed. You live within that or try to change it. Moralizing outside of constitution is demoralizing and futile.

if we degenerate in our culture, we cannot make tall claims about the religion of our land, about our heritage etc.

epics and legends not only teach us what to do but they also teach us what not to do.

What you claim to be degeneration may be the progress we need.
Raj Ram Mohan Rai and others got the brutal custom of "Sati" that was progress to me, maybe degeneration according to you.

Child marriage was abolished that was progress to me, it may be degeneration to you.

Adi Shankara travelled across the Indian subcontinent to propagate his philosophy through discourses and debates with other thinkers. He established the importance of monastic life as sanctioned in the Upanishads and Brahma Sutra, in a time when the Mīmāṃsā school established strict ritualism and ridiculed monasticism. That was progress.

In Arya Samaj (they also happen to be Hindus) ladies are allowed to do Homas and Havans. Women Chant Gayatri Mantra. You might consider that to degradation of Culture, but I think that was uplifting.


Epics only paint a picture of that period, we all give our own interpretations. They do not I repeat they do not give sermons for today's world. They can not.
 
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All this talk of "culture" ignores the fact that Culture is time bound.
When one talks of culture, one must specify the time frame. Culture is ever changing. Some culture lasts very short time, others last a little longer.

Dashratha had multiple wives, Rama had only one wife. So what was Hindu culture?

Of course, you can not follow any of the things they did in Mahabharata. Multiple husbands, extra-marital relations,
Multiple wives, lying, cheating, etc.

culture also includes timeless values.

It is not as if, in the past say a hundred years ago, we used to kill fellow human beings whenever we got hungry just as we walked on the street and eat their flesh raw. Now after a hunded years, we have become extremely civilised and eat only bread and butter.

So values are complicated. They are there since the distant past in time. Culture is built on mostly values.

As I get into my car at 1 p.m. on a hot summer agninakshatram day and start driving, I find people on the road coming in the opposite direction on cars, scooters, mobikes and cycles behaving funnily. They all were feverishly gesticulating at me and trying to communicate something to me. As the car is an airconditioned one, the windows were closed. It took a few minutes for me to understand that my car's headlights were on. That is India. That is the value all those human beings who gesticulated had picked up being Indians. In any of the European countries or in US this is something which had never happened to me. That is part of the culture.

For some societies an individual knows better what is good or bad. In some other societies it is - individuals may know but it is worth telling when there is a deviant behaviour.

Dasaratha had many wives. We have our political leaders and chief ministers who had manaivi and thunaivi and many other "vies". So when todays history is written after hundred years it will be no different from what we have today of those days 100 yesrs back. Extra marital relations, multiple wives, bastard children claiming their rights, multiple husbands, lying, cheating name any thing it was there it is there and it will be there.
 
culture also includes timeless values.

There is nothing "timeless".
In my post#63 I Said.

Some culture lasts very short time, others last a little longer.

In your post you said:

It is not as if, in the past say a hundred years ago, we used to kill fellow human beings whenever we got hungry just as we walked on the street and eat their flesh raw.

Very conveniently you limited your time frame to hundred years. If you go back in History say thousands of years ago you contention is invalid.

But you validate my point that culture is time bound. If I read it right you are saying the same thing as I wrote.

You shortened the time frame to your convenience.

Human were cannibals all over the world.


There is evidence, both archaeological and genetic, that cannibalism has been practiced for tens of thousands of years. Human bones that have been "de-fleshed" by other humans go back 600,000 years.
 
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Swami Vivekananda said:

[FONT=&quot]All growth, progress, well-being, or degradation is but relative. It refers to a certain standard, and each man to be understood has to be referred to that standard of his perfection. You see this more markedly in nations: what one nation thinks good might not be so regarded by another nation. Cousin-marriage is quite permissible in this country. Now, in India, it is illegal; not only so, it would be classed with the most horrible incest. Widow-marriage is perfectly legitimate in this country. Among the higher castes in India it would be the greatest degradation for a woman to marry twice. So, you see, we work through such different ideas that to judge one people by the other's standard would be neither just nor practicable. Therefore we must know what the ideal[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is that a nation has raised before itself. When speaking of different nations, we start with a general idea that there is one code of ethics and the same kind of ideals for all races; practically, however, when we come to judge of others, we think what is good for us must be good for everybody; what we do is the right thing, what we do not do, of course in others would be outrageous. I do not mean to say this as a criticism, but just to bring the truth home. When I hear Western women denounce the confining of the feet of Chinese ladies, they never seem to think of the corsets which are doing far more injury to the race. This is just one example; for you must know that cramping the feet does not do one-millionth part of the injury to the human form that the corset has done and is doing — when every organ is displaced and the spine is curved like a serpent. When measurements are taken, you can note the curvatures. I do not mean that as a criticism but just to point out to you the situation, that as you stand aghast at women of other races, thinking that you are supreme, the very reason that they do not adopt your manners and customs shows that they also stand ag[/FONT][FONT=&quot]hast at you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the West, the woman is wife. The idea of womanhood is concentrated there — as the wife. To the ordinary man in India, the whole force of womanhood is concentrated in motherhood. In the Western home, the wife rules. In an Indian home, the mother rules. If a mother comes into a Western home, she has to be subordinate to the wife; to the wife belongs the home. A mother always lives in our homes: the wife must be subordinate to her. See all the difference of ideas.[/FONT]


But what vevekananda said was also time bound. The second quote is so wrong in Urban India today.
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i..._8/lectures_and_discourses/women_of_india.htm
 
In traditional (being generous)or backward (being brutal and honest) societies often allow men more freedom, including the freedom to dress as they see fit. Women in these societies are often expected or required to dress conservatively, or even to a full dress code.

We see the opposite in non-traditional societies (is that a thing?) where women are more likely to adopt the customs and/or dress of another place if they’re on vacation, whether it be the local island costume, high class New York or Paris styles when visiting the city, or even perhaps typical farm clothing when on a dude ranch. This all has to do with freedom or lack-thereof.
 
For this I need to conduct an experiment.

All human bodily responses ranging from blood flow..Blood Pressure..Heart rate..respiratory rate and also hormonal levels need to be measured before viewing Ms Leone's videos and also measure during and after.

Then we can note how much of Samskar..Samskriti works.

Are you saying that ogling at apsaras, nartakis, devadasis is not Indian culture?
 
As I get into my car at 1 p.m. on a hot summer agninakshatram day and start driving, I find people on the road coming in the opposite direction on cars, scooters, mobikes and cycles behaving funnily. They all were feverishly gesticulating at me and trying to communicate something to me. As the car is an airconditioned one, the windows were closed. It took a few minutes for me to understand that my car's headlights were on. That is India. That is the value all those human beings who gesticulated had picked up being Indians. In any of the European countries or in US this is something which had never happened to me. That is part of the culture.

Good Samaritanism and helpful actions are not specific to any nation's culture. In the US my car had got stuck on the side of the road 2 times. Both times I have been helped by Americans who did not seek anything in return.

If we are talking about Indian culture, one should also note the mindless vandalism on the recently launched Tejas Express.
http://www.opindia.com/2017/05/stol...oilets-not-flushed-tejas-express-maiden-trip/

This is also Indian culture. Let's take a hard look in the mirror.
 
Good Samaritanism and helpful actions are not specific to any nation's culture. In the US my car had got stuck on the side of the road 2 times. Both times I have been helped by Americans who did not seek anything in return.

If we are talking about Indian culture, one should also note the mindless vandalism on the recently launched Tejas Express.
http://www.opindia.com/2017/05/stol...oilets-not-flushed-tejas-express-maiden-trip/

This is also Indian culture. Let's take a hard look in the mirror.


Good point.
But conveniently the mirror is dusty so they never see the true image.
 
hi

in india...culture and language changes every twenty kilometers.............different culture practices within iyers/iyengars too...

we dont have any common culture....tanjore brahmin culture is entirely different from palakkad brahmin cultures...i feel myself

in my home itself...im basically follow palakkad culture and my wife is tanjore culture....a lot of difference within iyers...
 
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