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Tambrams should embrace Ravana as their own- not reject him

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Chennai has 3-4 Ravana Iyer streets. This shows that atleast some Iyers were proud of their illustrious (?) ancestor. The generation of Iyers in the 50s and 60s allowed NBs to misappropriate Ravana as their own.

In fact, Ravana was strictly Brahmin, and unfailingly performed sandhyavandana. Many tambram girls prefer to marry NBs because they consider fellow tambrams as wimps.

Brahmins in Rajasthan use Parasurama's axe as their symbol, and nobody messes with them. Tambrams (Iyers and other Saivite Brahmins) must start accepting Ravana as part of their heritage and not be ashamed of him. Only then will the few remaining Brahmins in Tamilnadu gain respect.
 
I don't understand this post at all. Are you a fan of Ravana or not?

You do know that he was half-Asura and was most probably born out of wedlock. His father was a Rishi but there is no evidence the he was either an Iyer or a Tamil Brahmin.

I just don't understand where you are going with this...
 
I am a great fan of Raavan.I always used to feel sad when I see people during Dusshera burning down his image.

I used to think most of us know nuts compared to how learned he was and we dare burn him down.

I used to think that since he was Jaya the gate keeper at Vaikuntha may be he will deal with all those who burn his Ravan image when they come knocking at Vaikuntha.

When I used to read Amar Chita Katha stories I used to find the Asuras somewhat macho cos they managed everything themselves..prayed for power/fame and fought a fair battle.

The Devas were always running to Lord Vishnu/Shiva for help and not making much attempt to fight themselves.
 
Well, I just thought he was a regular ol' Sri Lankan who decided to pick a fight with some Jats from UP. It could happen again, except nowadays we just play cricket!
 
Well, I just thought he was a regular ol' Sri Lankan who decided to pick a fight with some Jats from UP. It could happen again, except nowadays we just play cricket!

Dear Biswa,

Sorry, let me correct you on this !. North in ancient times did not mean North India as in today, but north karnataka (Gangavathi, Vatapi) & Andhra (Hastinapuram, Kasipuram, Kubeira - Thirumala). Ayothiapattinam, Madurai (Mathura - even as per Megasthenis - he says he visited the land of Krishna!!), Sivakasi, Kailasam, Srivaikuntam, Dharmapuri (yama..), etc., all in Tamil Nadu. Cauvery river is Ganga. Triveni Sangam in TN is the mythical - Ganga (Cavery), Yamuna (Bhavani) & Saraswati (Amudha) etc..

In summary, all places, towns, cities in Vedas/Ramayana/Mahabarata are ALL in south india with the same folk tales & inscriptions !!

most importantly Agasthiyar hills is down south in TN & NOT the Vindyas - as per our Govt of India itself !!. so Agasthya went from North (Vatapi) to down south beyond Agasthiyar Hills.

Bharatavarsha was from the "Vindyas to down south kerala" & it was not possible for people to walk down the "impassable" vindyas & go to Ganga every now & then.

Ayodha is in every land Dravidians conquered - Thai, Indonesia, North India, Cambodia, etc.. so it does not mean Rama was born there !!. thats why no temple was found under Babri Masjid becos that is not the original birth place !.

Read my posts under "Religion" forum to understand our "true history"

Cheers !
 
Sorry JayKay but you have totally lost me there.

But what you say reminds me of an old joke: For the Sardars in Punjab, they think Delhi is in South India!
 
Sorry JayKay but you have totally lost me there.

But what you say reminds me of an old joke: For the Sardars in Punjab, they think Delhi is in South India!

Dear Biswa,

Suggest you read my posts.

Rama Krishna Shiva Vishnu are all Dark Gods per all texts - Vedas, Sashtras, Ramayana, Mahabarata, temple inscriptions, folk tales etc... & why do a so called fair race worships dark gods !!

Regards,
JK
 
Sorry JayKay but you have totally lost me there.

But what you say reminds me of an old joke: For the Sardars in Punjab, they think Delhi is in South India!

By the way Rama Temple HAD TO EXIST UNDER BABRI MASJID BECOS ALL THE LOCATION/POSITION AS PER RAMAYANA POINT TO THAT EXACT LOCATION IN AYODHYA. BUT THERE IS NO TEMPLE THERE !!

THATS WHY BJP/RSS ARE PUSHING THAT IS THE BIRTH PLACE NO MATTER WHAT THE FINDINGS ARE FROM THE ARCHEALOGICAL DEPARTMENT ! BECOS THEN HE WAS NOT BORN ANYWHERE IN AYODHYA & HENCE NORTH INDIA AS IN TODAY !
 
I second biswa. It depends on the individual, if he wants to be a fan of ravana or not.

Its too long a stretch to expect all tambrams to associate with ravana. There is no proof that tambrams (or any other social group) have a single point origin.

Even Pulayas, whose members partially (imo) are closest to being descendents of rishi Pulastya (ravana's father's lineage ), do not have a single point origin.

Today we can say there is a bit of Ram and a bit of Ravan in each one of us.

Ram was an ideal king, but not really an ideal husband (not a good idea to abandon a pregnant wife based on gossip or washerman's words).

Ravan was undoubtedly a highly learned man, but with a weaknesses for women.

Ravana it is said (though dunno how correct), sang the Sama Veda, wrote a commentory on the Rig Veda, and composed Shiva Tandava Stotra.

I worship Ram, but tend to say a few good words for Ravan also, every ShriRama Navami (wishing him well and requesting him to do good to all).

Both Ram and Ravan, are imo great spirits, great souls...perhaps each one of them can deliver what an individual seeks. So i suppose one must be careful what one wishes for..

Everything simply depends on the mind of the beholder, maybe....
 
my grandmother, always told me, that being saivites, we are closer to ravanan, than to raman. ravanan was a poonal wearing brahmin whereas rama was a meat eating kshatriya. (anyone remember the deer being killed at sitha's request)?

yet there was no image of ravana in her household, only rama - at pattabishekam.
 
Well, I just thought he was a regular ol' Sri Lankan who decided to pick a fight with some Jats from UP. It could happen again, except nowadays we just play cricket!

Also none of the religious texts - Vedic, Jain, Budhist etc., ever talk about an "Ice Clad" Himalya Mountains !!.

It the Vindyas that is referred to as Himalayas in Ramayana !!

I am happy to discuss any rational objections. Also happy to tee off with my sardar jokes with yours :)-

Cheers !
 
It amazes me that we are discussing this on caste lines.

Ravana did wrong. He coveted another man's wife. This is, from any viewpoint is wrong. Does not matter whether he was a Shiva follower and did tapas. If he did all that in true earnestness, he would have controlled his senses and not have gone the wrong way. Has no bearing on how Lord Rama treated his wife.

Whether he was a Brahmin or not, he did wrong and deserved his fate.

KRS
 
It amazes me that we are discussing this on caste lines.

Ravana did wrong. He coveted another man's wife. This is, from any viewpoint is wrong. Does not matter whether he was a Shiva follower and did tapas. If he did all that in true earnestness, he would have controlled his senses and not have gone the wrong way. Has no bearing on how Lord Rama treated his wife.

Whether he was a Brahmin or not, he did wrong and deserved his fate.

KRS

Dear KRS,

Ramayana is written from a victor's prespective - Rama/Sugriva & their followers.

Read "Homer's Illiad of Troy" - this is the Lanka version of Ramayana. Lanka is Troy. Lanka/Troy are both protected by invincible walls & princes - Indrajit/Hector. Wife is kidnapped, triggering an extra-ordinary war etc..

Read my posts under "Religion".

After you read both the versions - you decide who is right v/s wrong !. Pl note, every war has 2 sides to the story !

Cheers !
JK
 
if you delve deeply in to the word Asura, it is actually the charecter that is referred to and not by virtue of birth. Ravana was a staunch Siva devotee. it is just that he had all wrong people to advice him that he got entangled. Isnt Vibeshana a good "Asura"?? it is termed as "varnam" in ancient philosophy which over period of time got changed in to a caste ideology.

"Engae Brahmanan" by Cho is a good book to read up on...
 
Well, I just thought he was a regular ol' Sri Lankan who decided to pick a fight with some Jats from UP. It could happen again, except nowadays we just play cricket!

By the way, there is a Sanjeevini Hills in South - Andhra closer to Vindyas. & Nothing grows on the current ice clad Himalayas !!.

However let me also clarify - Ramayana & its legacy belongs to North Indians as much as the south indians. Dravidians settle in north india 1000's of yrs back !

But it is absolutely unfair to blame the Muslims that they destroyed the Ram Janmasthan & built a Mosque !!. I even question is whole premise that the muslim invaders demolished all our temples !!. if so, how come most of the temples in south india are still intact ( i also see a lot of north temples intact!!). the delhi sultanate defeated the Viajayanagara empire & ruled south subsequently till the British came. even though the Hampi temples are in ruin (many claim it is becos of these muslim invaders), how come they did not build a mosque on top of it to commemorate thier victory ???? these temples could have crumbled on its own many are 300 to 700 yrs old !!

Infact my research started after this dispute & the finding from Archealogical dept + other researchers who say there was NO temple found in the Babri site !!. & I agree with it becos we are looking at the wrong place !!
 
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Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

Troy did wrong. So did Ravana.

The morality of Ramayana are just three things:
1. Respect your elders' words, even if they may seem incongruous to you.
2. Loyalty to your family and friends.
3. Don't covet someone else's wife.

Very simple. Based on these, the good guys won. And the bad guys lost. Same in the Homer story. What is the issue? I fail to understand your argument.

Regards,
KRS
Dear KRS,

Ramayana is written from a victor's prespective - Rama/Sugriva & their followers.

Read "Homer's Illiad of Troy" - this is the Lanka version of Ramayana. Lanka is Troy. Lanka/Troy are both protected by invincible walls & princes - Indrajit/Hector. Wife is kidnapped, triggering an extra-ordinary war etc..

Read my posts under "Religion".

After you read both the versions - you decide who is right v/s wrong !. Pl note, every war has 2 sides to the story !

Cheers !
JK
 
Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

Troy did wrong. So did Ravana.

The morality of Ramayana are just three things:
1. Respect your elders' words, even if they may seem incongruous to you.
2. Loyalty to your family and friends.
3. Don't covet someone else's wife.

Very simple. Based on these, the good guys won. And the bad guys lost. Same in the Homer story. What is the issue? I fail to understand your argument.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS,

wow !. so u are saying killing millions of innocent, ransacking the city, burning it is okay since someone's wife runs away !!.

so should a guy go to war tomorrow if the wife runs away with another man & kill the innocents in the process ???

what logic is this ?

Cheers !
JK
 
Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

Troy did wrong. So did Ravana.

The morality of Ramayana are just three things:
1. Respect your elders' words, even if they may seem incongruous to you.
2. Loyalty to your family and friends.
3. Don't covet someone else's wife.

Very simple. Based on these, the good guys won. And the bad guys lost. Same in the Homer story. What is the issue? I fail to understand your argument.

Regards,
KRS

Ravana is the epitome of points 1 & 2. He was/is the greatest devotee of Shiva.

On point 3, lets consider facts. Ravana/Paris were considered "Tripura Sundara" the most handsome man in all the 3 worlds !. so Sita/Helen running away with them is very believable !!
 
No matter what anyone says I still simply adore Raavan.About coveting someone else's wife..what is the big deal?
If someone likes something he has to try to get it isnt it?
Its like Try Try and keep trying till you succeed.
He liked her so he was trying his level best but some how she never developed Stockholm syndrome.

I remember 2 weeks ago my son had seen a movie about the battle of Rama and Raavan and my son asked me.."Amma why Raavan had to be killed for taking away Seeta?His crime was not murder..he didnt kill Seeta so why did he pay with his life?"
"If I were Rama I would have told Raavan keep her and I would have married another person"

Then I asked my son "but Rama loved Seeta dearly..wont you want your wife back?"

My son answered.."If its going to involve so much bloodshed..then No..cos Raavan must have loved Seeta a lot to go thru all this trouble so let him be happy too..Seeta will eventually like him"
 
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Hi Renuka,

Brilliant ! & well said !. every crime has to be evaluated for its seriousness !!. Nothing gives the right for people kill millions of innocents in the process.
thats why everyone wants to avoid WAR, becos irrespective of who is right or wrong, why should innocents get killed in the process.

Cheers !
JK
 
Hi Renuka,

Brilliant ! & well said !. every crime has to be evaluated for its seriousness !!. Nothing gives the right for people kill millions of innocents in the process.
thats why everyone wants to avoid WAR, becos irrespective of who is right or wrong, why should innocents get killed in the process.

Cheers !
JK

Dear JK,

Credit goes to my son!!!
 
Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

First of all, Difference between Helen and Sita: Former did not love her husband and the latter loved her husband.

Irrespective of this, the proper course of action was through civilized means, not through abduction.

Unfortunately, when the rulers make mistakes, the subjects pay the price, true even today!

In Ravana's case, the mistake he made was not to win Sita's heart. If he did then, I agree with you, Rama did not have as strong a case. But her steadfast love for Rama is the difference and makes your case invalid.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

First of all, Difference between Helen and Sita: Former did not love her husband and the latter loved her husband.

Irrespective of this, the proper course of action was through civilized means, not through abduction.

Unfortunately, when the rulers make mistakes, the subjects pay the price, true even today!

In Ravana's case, the mistake he made was not to win Sita's heart. If he did then, I agree with you, Rama did not have as strong a case. But her steadfast love for Rama is the difference and makes your case invalid.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS,

thats the problem. !. How do you or I know that Sita was kidnapped ?. that she did not go on our own accord.

Given that Ramayana & Troy story are the same (The no of similarities are endless. also I can give you far more detailed reasons for this. Read my earlier posts), how do you know who is telling the truth ??

Rama's followers will glorify him. Ravana's (Priam) followers will glorify him.

However great the crime may be (even if Sita were to have been killed), NO ONE has the right to kill millions of innocents in the process !!

Infact many historians fault the WW II. Agree Hitler was the most evil person, his genocide of jews is unbelievable. western powers should have tried to take out Hitler by sending "hitmans" or staging a coup instead of precipitating such a disastrous WAR !!

Cheers,
JK
 
Dear Sri Jatkay767 Ji,

How do we know that Sita did not willingly go away with Ravana? From the same epic, which is a STORY, that may not have any historical foundation, sir.

'Millions of people getting killed', is not a moral turpitude if one looks at it from the past morality. Please do not get confused between what is considered moral today from yester years' morality. Societies are constantly evolving and today's morality based on individuality has no bearing on our past morality based on societal primacy, sir.

Please do not confuse the two.

Our epics and for that matter, other peoples' epics reflect only the cultural and historical values of our past and nothing more. They have only relevance to today's life, in terms of whether we would like to follow those values or discard them in the light of today's life.

Regards,
KRS
 
Ravana brahma - a multi faceted brahmin

RAVANA BRAHMA - A multi faceted personality.

Ravana was a multi faced personality. The formidable king of Lanka almost came close to becoming an unquestioned ruler of the three worlds. The great epic Ramayana is as much about the defeat of Ravana as much as it is also about the life of Sri Rama, King of Ayodhya. So, had Ravana learnt the lesson of controlling his ambitions, it would not have been necessary for Lord Vishnu to incarnate upon earth as Sri Rama.


Ravana was a direct descendant of Lord Brahma and Brahmin by birth. He was blessed with the very best of parents. His father was the great Sage Vishravas who was the son of Maharishi Pulastya Prajapathi (one of the mind born Saptarishis) and the grandson of none other than Lord Brahma himself. Maharishi Agasthya Muni was the brother of Sage Vishravas. Sage Vishravas had married Devavarni the daughter of rishi Bharadwaja and Princess Kaikesi the daughter of Sumali. While Kubera was the son of Devavarni, Ravana was the son of Princess Kaikesi. His mother Princess Kaikesi was the daughter of King Sumali of the Daithyas or Asuras. The Daithyas were descendants of Diti, the second wife of Sage Kashyapa, thus were brothers to the Devas who were descended from Aditi, Kashyapa’s first wife.

Princess Kaikesi was a very ambitious lady and that the Sage Vishravas recognized her true ambitions when she asked him to marry her. Sage Vishravas also warned Princess Kaikesi that , their offspring may turn out to be bad. But, this information did not deter Princess Kaikesi who was soon blessed several children.The eldest of Princess Kaikesi’s children was Ravana. At birth Ravana was given the name of Dashanana or Dasagriva, since he was said to have the mental strength of ten people. He was an exemplary scholar and mastered all the Vedas and Sastras under his father. He was a great Veena player. He was a Samavedin. He was an ardent devotee of Lord Siva and known for his Siva Tandava. Due to this only he was named Ravana by none else than by the Lord Siva himself. He had two younger brothers namely Vibhishana and Kumbakarna. In addition, Kaikesi gave birth to a daughter by the name Soorpanakha.



However different sources cite Ravana having more siblings than the ones named. For instance, Ravana is said to have had a brother named Mahiravana who was a powerful magician and became the ruler of the netherworld. In addition, there is also mention of Khara and Dushana in the Ramayana. But, all sources agree that Ravana also had a half brother older than him, Kubera, the lord of wealth, the first son of Vishravas. Ravana always had a contentious relationship with his half brother.

As a child Ravana was very diligent and intelligent, an ideal scholar in all respects. However, his father also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side. Ravana was very well educated and he was recognized as a learned and proficient individual even by his enemies. He mastered the Vedas, Shastras and the ways of the Kshatriyas. His mastery in the use of every weapon was well known and he was a great sorcerer. His father Sage Vishravas must have realized that Ravana was meant to rule a kingdom. However, he also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side.


Ravana performed several yagnas as a Brahmin including the one for no other than Lord Shiva and Parvati themselves. The puranas tell us about the magnitude of Ravana’s learning and skill. He was unmatched in his knowledge of the nitishastra. Indeed, after his defeat towards the end of the Ramayana, Rama orders his brother Lakshmana to learn the art of nitishastra from the dying Ravana. In addition, he was a ery well renowned Veena player, his personal emblem being the Veena. Already a great musician and scholar, Ravana added leadership qualities to his list of virtues. He was the undisputed leader amongst his siblings and even after growing up, his brothers and sister except Vibheshana would primarily defer to his judgment despite having differences of opinion.


Ravana had several wives but foremost among them was Queen Mandodari daughter of Maya.She was known for her beauty, grace and chastity. She was one of the pancha kanyas according to Hindu mythology and merely reminding her name is said to wash away all the sins. Princess Mandodari was the daughter of Maya the divine architect and Hema a celestial dancer. Maya was a descendant of Diti and hence was an asura . Thus Maya was known as Mayasura and also as Maya Ditya.

After nearly completing his domination of the worlds, Ravana returned to Lanka to rule over his dominions. As a citadel designed by none other than Vishwakarma,the architect of the Gods, Lanka was matchless. Its walls were strong and well defended. A guardian spirit watched over the main gate ensuring that enemies never entered the city. The legends talk about the wealth of Lanka during the rule of Ravana. It was said that hungar was virtually not known and even the poor ate out of vessels of gold and silver. Ravana himself was credited to have been a very able and benevolent administrator. He was ably aided in this by his brother Vibheshana who continued to follow the path of Dharma above all things. Vibheshana was with Ravana and helped to moderate all his orders until he got banished from the kingdom for speaking against the abduction of Sita, wife of Rama.
Ravana’s life was a classic example of brilliance gone wrong. He had gained the very best instruction and was truly great in his abilities and achievements, a fact that was appreciated by his favorite God Shiva. However,unfortunately he never learnt the virtue of humility. His arrogance and conceit proved to be his nemesis. Instead of following the path of Dharma, he chose to flout it time and again. Instead of gaining fame for his countless good qualities, Ravana became known for his improper behavior towards humans and women in particular. His atrocities kept growing in number and eventually became so terrible, that it took an incarnation of Lord Vishnu to subdue him.


Absolute power corrupts absolutely and the mighty Ravana moved from one blunder to another, angering many a mortal and God in the bargain. A true devotee of Lord Shiva , Ravana is said to have composed the "Shiva Tandava Stotra" while trying to gain boons from Shiva. Shiva who was busy at the moment dancing the tandava with his consort Parvati knew of his devotee’s intentions but chose to ignore them. Ravana decided to lift the Kailasa Mountain, the abode of Lord Shiva and take it with him to Lanka. Lord Shiva, in turn enraged by Ravana’s presumptions trod heavily back with his toe, nearly crushing Ravana in the process. It is at this time that Ravana realized his mistake and begged the Lord to end the misery, even sacrificing his numerous heads to the God. A calm Shiva appeared before Ravana and presented him with the Atma Lingam after formally naming him Ravanasura. Ravana continued on his way back to Lanka taking the Atma Lingam with him only to lose it on the way. The spot is now said to be Rameshwaram today.In the end, as he lay dying on the battlefield, holding on to the very last breath and giving Lakshmana instruction on Nitishastra and proper administration, Ravana is said to have commented dryly, “Never assume that you have all the time in the world and take nothing for granted. Never procrastinate. I conquered the Heavens and imprisoned Yama, the lord of Death to my bedstead and Shani, the ninth planet under my throne. I told myself that I will always have time to finish them later. What good did this procrastination do? They prevailed anyway.”


There is an interesting anectode about one class of Brahmins known as "Saryuparin Brahmins" in North India. When Lord Rama returned to Ayodhya after his victory in Lanka, he wanted to perform "Aswamedha Yagna". For this purpose he invited the local Brahmins to perform the yagna. But they refused the offer since Rama did the sin of Brahma-hatya by killing Ravana, the son of a Brahmin. However some Brahmin families acceped the request of Lord Rama and performed the Yagna. For which they got Lands and wealth at the other side of River Sarayu. Thus the descendants of these families are called "Sarayupari Brahmins" even today. These Brahmins are also called "Kanyakubja Brahmins". Their families spread over many places in UP and Madhya Pradesh.One of the famous persons belonging to the "Kanyakubja Brahmins" sect is Sri Atal Behari Vajapayeeji.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.







 
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