Real achievement of Tamil Brahmins

[kunjuppu]

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here is what i think, a very thoughtful article about india in today's hindu epaper.

The Hindu : Arts / Magazine : India@61: An idea gone astray

some of the statistics and of the magnitude of poverty, is indeed frightening. the author is an expat like me, and that too canadian. the author, to his credit, has seen through the glitzes of today's india, which i like thousands of other NRI are impressed, during our regular visits home.

 

[sravna]

Vivek,

It looks like you are already being ensnared. I do not think there is anything like moderate materialism. You are either in it or not in it. . I see materialism has today grown to monstrous proportions and it is indeed very difficult for almost anybody not to come under its spell. Once you are in it the only option for you is to embrace it. Everybody understands this and so work within the system.

It is indeed a pathetic situation that the politicians and businessmen and other beneficiaries who perpetuate this are blind to the future of humanity. How can one be so short-sighted not to see the patently self destructive consequences of what he practices? The body and the instantaneous are winning over the soul and the timeless.

The situation is fueled by a false sense of achievement by these people. They are intoxicated by it and so cannot see their true fate. That is the only explanation I can offer for such short sightedness.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Yes sir. But we will catch up. Unfortunately, many in our clan would not want to come into limelight. Everybody (almost) has become an MBA and it will not be long when every one of us become a laureate in the ever expanding field of human activity.

 

[Vivek_V]

@ Sri Svarna - Materialism explained

"I do not think there is anything like moderate materialism. You are either in it or not in it."

Materialism is a very general term and varies from people to people based on their own lifestyle. To a rich tycoon with many bunglows and hightech aminities me having a simple house with one TV, one computer, one mobile phone etc is "not materialistic", but for the Tibetan people its highly materialistic.

For the San Bushman tribe of Africa, wearing clothes and having "basic" facilities like comode, wash basin in the house will be materialistic. So untimately to say whether one is ensnared or not is to ask yourself if you are completely addicted to it and it inhibits you from contributing to human civilization at large by freezing your sense of thinking or an excess comfort that makes you unhealthy. Such is not the case with me or any Indians for the simple fact that most haven't even reached facilities for a basic healthy life let alone "materialism".

I thus don't see your fears taking shape for real. An urban setup is bound to exist for any developing civilization because of huge production output and people choosing to do bussiness. These bussinesses provide goods and services which people will flock to for benfits. These nations are the ones that go ahead and influence others, it is the future.

It is in such a setup that the best talents of man in physical fields like sports; or of mental disciplines like science, literature etc. or any pov come forth and be heard. Even that pov which says that man should test his abilities outside such a urban setup is heard and tried - which is what I believe past writings of people going to isolated places for "tapasya" etc and all was about. Such an urban civilization is also more fortified from any enemy, only they shouldn't fall from within through materialism.

But merely living a particular life of say an urban lifestyle is not materialism - its only an excess addiction to it, which inhibits your own mental and physical abilities because a very easy environment has been made for you - that is detrimental. This is why I believe in this present technological world we should have pursuits that don't include technology (as I typed in my previous post too) - like sports, taking up a study based on field of interest through books, a hobby that doesn't include gizmos etc.

Regards,
Vivek.

 

[sravna]

Vivek,

I view it more as a mental thing. It is enough if you yearn for comforts. Whether you are in Tibet or New York or whether you live in a small house or a bungalow doesn't really matter.

 

[sangom]

here is what i think, a very thoughtful article about india in today's hindu epaper.

The Hindu : Arts / Magazine : India@61: An idea gone astray

some of the statistics and of the magnitude of poverty, is indeed frightening. the author is an expat like me, and that too canadian. the author, to his credit, has seen through the glitzes of today's india, which i like thousands of other NRI are impressed, during our regular visits home.

Shri Kunjuppu,

A very realistic article. Unfortunately this "going astray" is not seen by those who should be concerned; all are happy to cite statistics and feel that India will "launch" itself as a super power!!

 

[Nara]

......The Hindu : Arts / Magazine : India@61: An idea gone astray

Thanks K, good one, but I have a feeling the most common reaction would be to shoot the messenger.....

 

[Brahmanyan]

The disparity between the haves and havenots has increased on monstrous proportion during these 61 years of rule by our own people. Nobody seems to have a clue as to how to solve this problem. Radia tapes have exposed the tip of the iceberg of the control of Government by the money power. All the four pillars of democracy have fallen to the lure of unscrupulous money power and failed miserably in this regard. Unfortunately the Governments are run in tokenism in the form of freebies and false statistics.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Vivek_V]

@ Sri Svarna

"I view it more as a mental thing. It is enough if you yearn for comforts. Whether you are in Tibet or New York or whether you live in a small house or a bungalow doesn't really matter. "

It is a mental thing indeed - two people living the same lifestyle would view it differently, one may view it as materialistic and another wouldn't regard it so. This is exactly why I spoke of the business tycoon and tibetans to illustrate that very point. My point in the previous post is better illustrated by asking you this question: Is your life materialistic? Your answer depends on what you yourself regard as being materialistic or not, isn't it? This is why I mentioned various places and their norms.

Ultimately then, this becomes about whether or not your environment and its comforts inhibit your development (mentally and physically), whether or not it makes you addicted and incapable of suriving otherwise.

Regards,
Vivek.

 

[sravna]

Vivek,

You are talking of how one perceives one's life style. What you are talking will be contradictory if a person pursues physical comforts but perceives that he is leading a life unaffected by those comforts.

My point anyway was you do not need to possess luxury. Even the yearning for it makes you materialistic in spirit.

 

[Vivek_V]

"@ Sri Brahmanyan

"The disparity between the haves and havenots has increased on monstrous proportion during these 61 years of rule by our own people. Nobody seems to have a clue as to how to solve this problem."

Yes, nobody does because it is incresingly complex. I guess there isn't a one-step solution to it. Its embroiled in a huge political, social structure that needs change. The present trend of money scams which should have been used for development, people's efforts which are twarted by local mafias etc. But recently the scams being exposed are, I believe, a positive trend. Even if slowly, India is becoming more aware of what they need to rebel about.

I am a young person, and I have my life ahead of me. I feel it is all people like us who are the future and should keep it in their personal goal to reach out to rural places. There are of course many many challenges and we are at the beginning of a journey.

 

[Vivek_V]

@ Sri Svarna

"My point anyway was you do not need to possess luxury. Even the yearning for it makes you materialistic in spirit."

My point was that "luxury" is itself defined differently by different people. This is what was my main point. Thus the issue is about your own personal development in an environment - on whether it inhbits or betters you.

Regards,
Vivek.

 

[Raghy]

The disparity between the haves and havenots has increased on monstrous proportion during these 61 years of rule by our own people. Nobody seems to have a clue as to how to solve this problem. Radia tapes have exposed the tip of the iceberg of the control of Government by the money power. All the four pillars of democracy have fallen to the lure of unscrupulous money power and failed miserably in this regard. Unfortunately the Governments are run in tokenism in the form of freebies and false statistics.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Sri.Brahmanyan Sir,

Greetings. The 'have nots' although work hard, are not paid proportionately. A KG of decent rice costs to a poor Indian, exactly the same money as it does to an Australian in Australia. When I went to India in 2004, I was discussing about the cost of living with my friends in India. I can get decent Basmati rice for $1.40, where as that same Basmati rice would cost more than Rs.60 in India; it costs more in India. When I went there last time, I found the vegetables cost the same as in Australia (Actually it is slightly more expensive in my city; that's what it costs in India. Ironically, it is cheaper to buy groceries and vegetables in 'Sanghana Sandhai' (சங்கான சந்தை) in Toronto than In a South Indian city).

The wages are paid about 20 to 30 times for the same work in Australia.

(When I was young, I was giving a speech to factory workers to show how they were exploited when the goods were sold at the same price as overseas while they were paid pittance......one of the employee reminded me that I was the supervisor!)

Anyway, the money in India is not distributed equitably. It is a recepie for disaster. In late 1990s such inequality in wealth distribution caused quite an unrest in Indonesia and Philiphines...

still the bottom line is corruption. Public are not represented by the politicians.

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

@ Sri Svarna

"My point anyway was you do not need to possess luxury. Even the yearning for it makes you materialistic in spirit."

My point was that "luxury" is itself defined differently by different people. This is what was my main point. Thus the issue is about your own personal development in an environment - on whether it inhbits or betters you.

Regards,
Vivek.

Vivek,

What you say would be correct if the person is not deriving enjoyment from the "luxury". In other words he doesn't seek it
His personal development is not an issue I think, if in fact he enjoys all the comforts.

 

[Nara]

The disparity between the haves and havenots has increased on monstrous proportion during these 61 years of rule by our own people.

Dear Sir, this is so true in the U.S. also. The rich are getting richer and the rest are falling behind. More and more of the national wealth is flowing upward towards the already rich.

Till some 15 or 20 years ago, a young person graduating from high school could make a middle-class living, have a small home, and raise a family. Now, thanks to globalization, you need to get a college education for a decent shot at middle class living, but not all are cut out for bookish learning. More and more people are falling behind, while the rich get richer as capital seeks out cheaper labor and more pliant politicians.

What is morality if the least among us can't have a shot at decent life with a semblance of self-respect?

Cheers!

 

[tbs]

Sri.Brahmanyan Sir,

Greetings. The 'have nots' although work hard, are not paid proportionately. A KG of decent rice costs to a poor Indian, exactly the same money as it does to an Australian in Australia. When I went to India in 2004, I was discussing about the cost of living with my friends in India. I can get decent Basmati rice for $1.40, where as that same Basmati rice would cost more than Rs.60 in India; it costs more in India. When I went there last time, I found the vegetables cost the same as in Australia (Actually it is slightly more expensive in my city; that's what it costs in India. Ironically, it is cheaper to buy groceries and vegetables in 'Sanghana Sandhai' (சங்கான சந்தை) in Toronto than In a South Indian city).

The wages are paid about 20 to 30 times for the same work in Australia.

(When I was young, I was giving a speech to factory workers to show how they were exploited when the goods were sold at the same price as overseas while they were paid pittance......one of the employee reminded me that I was the supervisor!)

Anyway, the money in India is not distributed equitably. It is a recepie for disaster. In late 1990s such inequality in wealth distribution caused quite an unrest in Indonesia and Philiphines...

still the bottom line is corruption. Public are not represented by the politicians.

Cheers!

hi Raghy sir,
i think the same in USA too....what u experienced in australia....i feel the same in USA...i feel we have cheaper rice/vegetables than india..

regards
tbs

 

[SwamiTaBra]

hi Raghy sir,
i think the same in USA too....what u experienced in australia....i feel the same in USA...i feel we have cheaper rice/vegetables than india..

regards
tbs

What is extent of subsidy provided to food commodities in developed countries? That is the bone of contention in WTO.

 

[wrongan]

Good people becoming bad people to earn money-----A real story of my friend. He was running a small cafetaria in a labour populated area.Till a decade ago everything was o k.One day a local muscle man came to him and asked him to employ only persons introduced by him .Since it was a brahmin hotel he was hesitent to employ other persons as servers fearing his bussiness would be affected.But he has to budge one day.Then trouble started the servers bring their people and compelled him to give employment.Feeling unbearable problem he sought the help of a local politician He demanded huge money in return to shut the mouth of the muscle man.This became a recurring incidence.So he has gone out of the ethics which he followed till then .He resorted all malpractices to compensate the loss initially.But learned how to mint money in the wrong way .Now he has more three branches in chennai.So even if you want tobe be loyal to your self you will not be allowed to be so.

 

[SwamiTaBra]

Good people becoming bad people to earn money-----A real story of my friend. He was running a small cafetaria in a labour populated area.Till a decade ago everything was o k.One day a local muscle man came to him and asked him to employ only persons introduced by him .Since it was a brahmin hotel he was hesitent to employ other persons as servers fearing his bussiness would be affected.But he has to budge one day.Then trouble started the servers bring their people and compelled him to give employment.Feeling unbearable problem he sought the help of a local politician He demanded huge money in return to shut the mouth of the muscle man.This became a recurring incidence.So he has gone out of the ethics which he followed till then .He resorted all malpractices to compensate the loss initially.But learned how to mint money in the wrong way .Now he has more three branches in chennai.So even if you want tobe be loyal to your self you will not be allowed to be so.

Thanks.

An excellent example of bad money driving out good money and with it the ethics.

Let us look at the the larger issue.

It is for this reason brahmins were desisted from getting into secular employment and trade. When one is directly involved, the stakes go up and at first one makes small compromises and gradually turn amoral.

One of the major role of the brahmins was to hold the ethics and enforce order through kshatriyas (the kings). Now we are mostly into secular employment and fear of being losing jobs, just acquiesce wrong doings by employers. If in trade and industry, we are forced to resort to many unethical or even criminal ways (as unfortunately your friend had to do) just to survive -- but later prosper without any moral compunction.

At least the vaishyas had some one to look up, but if we do, who is there?

Had we been provided some sort of safety net, perhaps the society and the nation would have been better off.

Regards,

P.S.: Though the issue is fit for discussion, it appears incongruous to the title of the thread -- or it can be taken as a back handed compliment.

 

[sangom]

Personally I am opposed to the death sentence because our judicial pronouncements need not be right, in the sense the real culprit is the one who gets punished. Hence, there should always be a chance for the punished to get freedom, if he is subsequently proved innocent. Depending on the seriousness of the crime we can have real imprisonment for entire period of life.

If however any prisoner commits another serious crime while in prison, he/she may be awarded death sentence as a deterrent in the "rarest of rare" cases.

 

[Raghy]

What is extent of subsidy provided to food commodities in developed countries? That is the bone of contention in WTO.

Sri. Swami Sir,

Greetings. Subsidy do not play a role in this. The rice I talk about is imported from Pakistan/Thailand/Combodia/India/Sri Lanka etc. (There may be more suppliers in USA). The vegetables are local grown in Australia, but not by white farmers but by Combodian/Thai/Vietnamese/Indian migrants. The vegrtables I am talking about are கத்தரிக்காய், அவரைக்காய், புடலங்காய், வெண்டைக்காய் etc... grows well in Northern Queensland and Northen Territory....

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Kindly see here.

 

[Vivek_V]

@ Sri Svarna - Personal development is very important IMO.

"What you say would be correct if the person is not deriving enjoyment from the "luxury". In other words he doesn't seek it"

Do you seek to wash your hands under running water after a meal? Do you seek to have a proper toilet in your house? The personal development and at large his ability to contribute to society are the most important crtieria - because the real problem of materialism is if it derails a person from a healthy physical and mental growth; examples of which are obesity, in ability to do tasks mental or physical, addiction to mobile. It is well (and humourously) shown in the movie Idiocracy, have you seen it? I probably can explain what I mean with it.

Maybe you can tell me what to you is luxury and what you expect to give up, and live what sort of lifestyle. From what I see, human societies that live extremely simple tend to be easily invaded and destroyed to be at the mercy of foreigners because they technologically lack the ability to defend themselves. Societies in which technology becomes an addiction fall from inside. The correct is the mean - to have technology, develop it and use it, but have a lifestyle that also doesn't inhibit the individual or his ability to contribute.

"His personal development is not an issue I think"

Why is the personal development not an issue to you? Does it not dictate where it carries him in life as a human being?

Regards,
Vivek.

 

[sravna]

Vivek,

I can lead and am leading an extremely simple life. I do not aspire for anything that I can be without. My mobile and my computer are my luxuries. I believe firmly in the vedic school of thought that nothing can be more potent than your mind not even technology. I also believe there is nothing which do not have within you, that technology can offer to make you lead a peaceful life

 

[kunjuppu]

Vivek,

I can lead and am leading an extremely simple life. I do not aspire for anything that I can be without. My mobile and my computer are my luxuries. I believe firmly in the vedic school of thought that nothing can be more potent than your mind not even technology. I also believe there is nothing which do not have within you, that technology can offer to make you lead a peaceful life

dear sravana,

please do not treat this note as critiquing, but only an observation.

'simple life' is a point of view and self described one at that too, i think. you say that the only indulgences that you have is a mobile and computer. to the beggar in the street, these will appear outright luxury. perhaps also to many others in the lower strings of society.

i think, you are perhaps hinting that gratification comes out only through the fruits of the mind, and no material stuff can supplant it. i will tend to agree with that.

also, if we subscribe to the concept 'போதும் என்ற மனமே பொன் செய்யும் மருந்து', i feel we need not fear of being overwhelmed by materialism. but to me, it is also equally important, that one should possess the humility to accept the limits of his contentment.

it cannot become a brag point. what is the use of trumpeting one's simplicity of life, but defining it to an extent, such that it appears glamorous for other have-nots. it is all comparative, i think.

so too, in the context, if one's point of contentment, is a 10 story house with all the trappings, should we not let that person be, provided it is all hard earned and honestly earned wealth.

or the other way around, if someone by crooked means, builds a hut or such humble dwelling, through evilly earned income - should we accommodate this, just because it is a humble abode, even though the source of that income is questionable?

the more i think about it, the more confused i get.