komanam / kaupeenam panchakacham brahmacharyam

[renuka]

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If all religions (read as Gods - this thinker bungled at that ) are one, why did he convert? Anyway, no answers expected; just a muse.

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I am not blaming anybody, but then if we were to "think out of the box" like you said, then life would just be full of apologies.

-- From the not so "out of box" thinker

Dear sir,

His ancestors had converted..he is not a recent convert...may be if his ancestors did not have to read text where they were described with despicable terms they would have remained Hindus.

 

[tks]

Mr. TKS#135,
I generally agree with your post and POV, but may be we are seeing the same problem from two different sides.

I did not live in Tamil Nadu, and I am a man. So my pov is purely from observation.
I wrote http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...panchakacham-brahmacharyam-13.html#post195056

If women wanted a rest during any period, it should be her freewill. Why should society, husband, MIL dictate it? Who can tell another person when to pray, bath, eat?

It is like saying that a sick person should be banished to "kalapani" for rest as opposed to a hospital bed. Why should the world know that she is in "period". This was more humiliation than peaceful rest.

How ever rare an animal is it would rather prefer freedom than secluded man made zoo for its confinement. So the explanation does not hold water.


Just because there is poverty among blacks in South Africa, you can justify the Apartheid imposed by whites in that country.
Two wrongs do not make it right.
The forced segregation is wrong now and was wrong then, you might call it by any other name, it is still wrong.

If a women does not declare it in public, the public has no way of knowing and treats her like a normal person, but the moment she declares it she is treated like a pariah.
in Medieval Times a women was forced to carry a scarlet letter “A,” around her neck worn by one convicted of adultery. In TB society they did not want to spend the money on that kind of an ornament for their women. Otherwise they would want women in period to have similar treatment.

Sri Prasad

My point is that every society/culture in any era has developed its own set of rules to live by. Some are likely to be imposed by small mindedness, some by greed and some by good intentions of harmony. There is always a creative conflict between individual freedom and rules established for collective good so individuals can have their way of life.

There are taxes today, traffic rules etc. If I go to some parts of India individual freedom of drivers slows everyone down. In western world the driving rules are followed by most and traffic goes through in a more optimum manner.

So in another era several decades ago and even today in some villages the women experiencing period are asked to take time off. How they are treated depends on the individual family. I remember as a very young boy that women (like my Chitthi) who went to Rezhi (ரேழி) area were treated very kindly. The children were told to be kind to them always though no reasons were given. Yes, they did catch up on their reading of magazines. So as a young person I did not sense anything which was like a put down of women - but that is based on my minimal experience.

It is viewed as another part of nature - no shame - just like one goes to a rest room.

I do not think statistically speaking the distribution of prejudiced people has changed over the years. So there is no reason to believe that based on local norms whatever rules were set up in another era was really with a view to put anyone down.

I do not think one can judge the norms of another society / culture in another place or time by the lens of today's norms from our current place.

I think there are misguided opinions about Western society by a few in India who have had limited or no experience of the western culture. Similarly some PIO tend to have wrong impression of India as well (and I do not mean you, Sri Prasad). Then there are bashers of Brahmins of past era by using their own norms arising from today's world. I think these prejudices all arise from lack of knowledge and intolerance of other viewpoints.

I would not want to impose any rule about how women should take rest in today's world during their 'periods' time. All I know is that in those household where certain practices existed they were intended for a good cause and not to put women down. At least that is what I know from my limited experience.

Let me know if you have different view from what I have stated.

 

[prasad1]

Thanks for the comment.
My experience is totally different.
I have seen widows mistreated in TB family, to an extent women in period was treated similarly.
The ongoing tragedy of India?s widows | Women Under Siege Project

 

[Raji Ram]

dear visa,

just roll back time, to the years when you were a teenager. did you or anyone of your sisters 'experiment with your hormones - get your bodies 'manipulated' and get pregnant'?.........

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

Was there any need to drag V R madam's sisters (including me) in this discussion?

I feel very sad!

 

[sarang]

For every ill treated widow, there were hundred well respected widows. As far as my experience goes, in my temple town, no widow was on her own; they were all looked after by some relative or a good family. All widows took part in normal household activities, and were always helping others with routine activities in the kitchen, looking after children, help making appalam, vadam and pickle. They were cheerful, religious, followed aacharam and anushtanam and were a friendly lot for all. Majority, 6 out of ten, were with headful of hair and wore colour sarees.

Many chose to lead an austere life without external pressure. Even in the nineties, my boss's mother, bengali brahmin, in her seventies, practised a very strict regimen - giving up non veg, sweets, simple white saree etc. when she lost her husband. Her choice and her path to better world.

I have a few widows in my extended family, who ran the household, controlled finances and managed properties.

This brindavan issue needs an analysis from a hindu centric and sympathetic person to get a proper picture. It has always been used to denigrate widows, hindus and society.

1. Why widows, mostly from bengal and UP-bihar belt come to brindavan. Some by faith to spend the last days in the service of god, some abandoned by relatives. Former reason was the predominant urge to come to brindavan; there were choultries and social back ups to help them in the past and even now. But, as with every facility, resources are stretched due to over crowding, and 'voyeur tourism'.
2. UP government has plans to help; but nothing forthcoming. 20000 is not a large number for providing basic facilities required by those who want to lead a life they want.
3. There is money in prostitution; it is tacitly supported by politicians, police and the desperadoes. All sections of society - girl school/college students, housewives, actors, are potential victims and some succumb.

If some widows want to lead a life of detachment, chosen temple proximity and location, it is the duty of the raja (government) and the society to help them.

Thanks for the comment.
My experience is totally different.
I have seen widows mistreated in TB family, to an extent women in period was treated similarly.
The ongoing tragedy of India?s widows | Women Under Siege Project

 

[prasad1]

Post#155
There is not enough white wash to cover all the blood stain. Ignorance is not bliss to the victims.

We are part of an old age home near Tanjore, we provide accommodation and shelter for 80 widows. We have to turn away others who come as we do not have facility to support them. Ours is purely volunteer service. Please do not tell me that everything is honky-dory with widows in TN.
People who want to know the facts should remove that rose colored glass and see the real world. It is not that pretty.

 

[sarang]

I was referring to a period when we were dharmic and respected all, say about 50 to 60 years ago. You are talking about today when some have moved away from our traditional dharma - joint family, respect for parents and family members and guests, and accorded nominal importance to running after money. When the traditional support system of family has evaporated, why widows without relations, even parents are pushed to 'anathasram'. Your understanding of the whole issue is flawed and inadequate; hope you will settle down and use your grey cells.

Such rapid rush to ape the western model will eventually lead to more serious problems for us in all spheres. It is comforting that many have understood our traditional value system and way of life has merit and can be successfully combined with modern so called scientific knowledge without compromising basics.

You must see the report by a government study group prepared some years ago. They did not find any reason for the widows to come to brindavan. There were enough philanthropists in the past to handle genuine spiritually inclined widows. What is happening today is the degradation a voluntary tyaga lifestyle to voyeurs from all over.

Post#155
There is not enough white wash to cover all the blood stain. Ignorance is not bliss to the victims.

We are part of an old age home near Tanjore, we provide accommodation and shelter for 80 widows. We have to turn away others who come as we do not have facility to support them. Ours is purely volunteer service. Please do not tell me that everything is honky-dory with widows in TN.
People who want to know the facts should remove that rose colored glass and see the real world. It is not that pretty.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

Was there any need to drag V R madam's sisters (including me) in this discussion?

I feel very sad!

sorry raji. i agree reference to sisters can be misconstrued. sorry.

re query to visa, it was part of a conversation and she has already addressed it. there is no need for you to comment adversely on that, as it was not understood (and meant) in an intrusive way. atleast that is the way i understood her reply. and visa has responded it in the spirit of that conversation.

hope that explains.

 

[Raji Ram]

sorry raji. i agree reference to sisters can be misconstrued. sorry.

re query to visa, it was part of a conversation and she has already addressed it. there is no need for you to comment adversely on that, as it was not understood (and meant) in an intrusive way. atleast that is the way i understood her reply. and visa has responded it in the spirit of that conversation.

hope that explains.

Yes Sir! Thanks for the reply.

P.S: Dear Sir, You know that we two sisters are different!

 

[Raji Ram]

Something related to KMN which I saw in Agra!

We were near the west gate parking of Taj Mahal and there stood a number of camel carts along with

battery operated cars and motor cycle rickshaws for the people to commute to the west gate easily.

When we went past the camel carts, I had a severe nausea because of a kind of strong stinking smell!

Then I noticed a long KMN tied on to the camels to save the roads form the falling sh**! OMG, I thought!

Even if I leave this thread for a week, KMN gives dharshan here too!! :dizzy:

 

[renuka]

Something related to KMN which I saw in Agra!

We were near the west gate parking of Taj Mahal and there stood a number of camel carts along with

battery operated cars and motor cycle rickshaws for the people to commute to the west gate easily.

When we went past the camel carts, I had a severe nausea because of a kind of strong stinking smell!

Then I noticed a long KMN tied on to the camels to save the roads form the falling sh**! OMG, I thought!

Even if I leave this thread for a week, KMN gives dharshan here too!! :dizzy:

Dear RR Ji,

So Camels in Agra wear Komanam?? But how come Dubai Camel is standing without Komanam??

 

[renuka]

I was just wondering..we had a "Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai" song and we had Madhuri doing her Jhatkas to that song.

I wonder how will a "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai" song sound like???
...but at least in "Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai" we can use "Choli MeiN Dil Hai Meraa"
line as an excuse as not too sound too suggestive since the human heart is present behind the rib cage... but in "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai".....I don't think we have any excuse to make it sound less suggestive!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

May be Dubai camels walk only on sand and not on tar roads!!

Source: Exploring Dubai

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Renu,

May be Dubai camels walk only on sand and not on tar roads!!

Source: Exploring Dubai

I am thrilled by your level of knowledge!! That, other than Dubai Camels all other Camels in Rajasthan and Agra have the sense to cover up its private part with Komanam.

You must be a genius!!

 

[C RAVI]

I was just wondering..we had a "Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai" song and we had Madhuri doing her Jhatkas to that song.

I wonder how will a "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai" song sound like???
...but at least in "Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai" we can use "Choli MeiN Dil Hai Meraa"
line as an excuse as not too sound too suggestive since the human heart is present behind the rib cage... but in "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai".....I don't think we have any excuse to make it sound less suggestive!LOL

I can understand why and how obsessesed are you with the things hidden behind the Komanam.

In "Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai" song, the lady sings the song and here its You, a lady who is mesmerised with the creative though of a song - "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai".

Yeah, you don't have excuse and you don't need an excuse too to reveal in your song as what's behind the Komanam. You have the expertise to reveal what exatly is hiding behind the Komanan in a creative way with the help of your obsessed mind.

 

[prasad1]

i am thrilled by your level of knowledge!! That, other than dubai camels all other camels in rajasthan and agra have the sense to cover up its private part with komanam.

You must be a genius!!

lol

 

[amala]

Well how can those camels be soo irresponsible and indecent dressing. Goodness are they asking for it! Such vulgarity...must be aping western camels to the core! They have bad bad influence from those decadent PIO camels I tell you!

 

[C RAVI]

ound:

These PIO's are truly Crazy!!! Now they have started worrying and complaining about Camels dressing or not dressing responsibily and getting raped!!

Shri Zebra, you are right. These PIO's are the self appointed preachers with out any knowledge and sensibility to preach

 

[prasad1]

ound:

These PIO's are truly Crazy!!! Now they have started worrying and complaining about Camels dressing or not dressing responsibily and getting raped!!

Shri Zebra, you are right. These PIO's are the self appointed preachers with out any knowledge and sensibility to preach

It is a zoo with camels and Zebras. But I thought they come different part of Africa. This is IR mingling, it against the rule. LOL

 

[renuka]

I can understand why and how obsessesed are you with the things hidden behind the Komanam.

In "Choli Ke Peeche Kya Hai" song, the lady sings the song and here its You, a lady who is mesmerised with the creative though of a song - "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai".

Yeah, you don't have excuse and you don't need an excuse too to reveal in your song as what's behind the Komanam. You have the expertise to reveal what exatly is hiding behind the Komanan in a creative way with the help of your obsessed mind.

Dear Ravi,

If you read most of my posts..I always use the word Female or Women to describe myself or any other female...I do not like using the word LADY cos LADY means some goody goody types who follows all norms and behaves so ever so right and down right boring!

So rather be called a FEMALE! where I can behave way I want and not what men expect me to be..

Well my dear boy...in my post all I asked is Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai cos I thought besides you know what there is no other structure behind it but in Think or Sink Thread..VR Ji told me that the Mooladhara Chakra is behind the Komanam too...So you see such my question actually had an answer yaar...

Yes..you are right..my mind is obsessed with lots of stuff..as I wrote in Think or Sink thread..right now I am busy penning down the lyrics for the song "Komanam Ke Peeche Kya Hai"

I am always happy with my imagination..cos it knows no boundary and always willing to receive inputs from all directions of the universe.

 

[Raji Ram]

I am thrilled by your level of knowledge!! That, other than Dubai Camels all other Camels in Rajasthan and Agra have the sense to cover up its private part with Komanam.

You must be a genius!!

Dear Ravi,

Thanks for your compliment - accepting me as a genius!

I can see your anger since you chose to send a PM in forum instead of my e-mail!

I did not mean to hurt you. I just mentioned about the camels I found near Taj in Agra.

:sorry: again if I have hurt you by my reply to Renu. Please cool down dear friend!

P.S: 'viLaiyAttu vinaiyAgum'! How true!! High time I bid good bye to this thread. :wave:

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

Sorry if my camel/komanam post had indirectly caused you to be dragged in this small time "brawl".

I thought it was just light hearted but it did not turn out that way.

renu

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Ravi,

Thanks for your compliment - accepting me as a genius!

I can see your anger since you chose to send a PM in forum instead of my e-mail!

I did not mean to hurt you. I just mentioned about the camels I found near Taj in Agra.

:sorry: again if I have hurt you by my reply to Renu. Please cool down dear friend!

P.S: 'viLaiyAttu vinaiyAgum'! How true!! High time I bid good bye to this thread. :wave:

dear raji,

i took you for a tough bird. and here you are copping out of a thread. dont do that dear lady. stand up and stick to your guts. you have a lot of support and admirers (ahem ) here.

 

[kunjuppu]

Something related to KMN which I saw in Agra!

We were near the west gate parking of Taj Mahal and there stood a number of camel carts along with

battery operated cars and motor cycle rickshaws for the people to commute to the west gate easily.

When we went past the camel carts, I had a severe nausea because of a kind of strong stinking smell!

Then I noticed a long KMN tied on to the camels to save the roads form the falling sh**! OMG, I thought!

Even if I leave this thread for a week, KMN gives dharshan here too!! :dizzy:

dear raji,

the purpose of the KMN is not just to dirty the road. camel dung is high in plant protein and nitrogen, and is a ready made organic fertilizer. so the smart india, that is, saves not only the dung, but also the urine.

the camel keeper times the urine output of the camel, and at the right time, hangs a little pot behind the pee hole (i bet you missed this one), and collects the urine, which is rich in urea, another organic fertilizer.

i am subscribed to pasumai vikatan, and apparently, organic farming is the in' thing in india now. it is not only cheaper than chemical fertilizers, but uses our ancient wisdom to produce insecticides and pesticides, which do not hurt mother earth.

so next time you see a camel with a diaper, shout out 'hooray' for indian farming..organic that is

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RR ji,

Sorry if my camel/komanam post had indirectly caused you to be dragged in this small time "brawl".

I thought it was just light hearted but it did not turn out that way.

renu

It's Okay Renu. I am as as ever!!